[X] Plan Setting the Foundations
-[X] Hyarnustar (Warriors)
--[X] Gather a sizeable amount of colonists from here. (2 Ships)
-[X] Rómenna (Shipwrights)
--[X] Gather a few colonists from here. (1 Ship)
-[X] Forostar (Miners)
--[X] Gather a sizeable amount of colonists from here. (2 Ships)
-[X] Andustar (Faithful / House of Beor)
--[X] Gather a large amount of colonists from here. (3 Ships)
-[X] Mittalmar (Farmers)
--[X] Gather a few colonists from here. (1 Ship)
-[X] Hyarrostar (Woodsmen / Scouts)
--[X] Gather a few colonists from here. (1 Ship)
-[X] The Shapers
-[X] Númenórean Iron
-[X] The Captain
-[X] The Knight
-[X] Minas Giliath, The Tower of Stars (Elvish)


So the objective of this Plan is to give us a solid foundation to build from while minimising troublesome and potentially corrupting elements.

For the Colonists I've gone fairly heavy on the House of Beor from Andustar, they tend to be Loremasters and Shapers but they're also capable (if not the best) warriors and most importantly they're stable, their hearts are sure and pure. I've also grabbed two ships of warriors and one of the scouts/woodsmen. I think that gives us a solid foundation for our defenses.

With that done I've also gone for a ship of Mariners as I feel they're useful to have, but probably not something we need to go all-in on. Next, I've gotten two ships of miners because as much as they might dislike us as a Shaper I feel we can overcome that and we're going to need the miners. And lastly one ship of the farmers because while they are Kings Men they're outnumbered enough that they shouldn't be able to cause issues and their skillset is incredibly useful.


For Purchases, I've gone for Shapers and Númenórean Iron because combined they improve and accelerate the construction of the core of our City, probably the Citadel? I've chosen not to select a third purchase because it's important for us to remember that these are purchases, and they come with corresponding debts and while the ships are appealing they're massively expensive. Also, it's important to remember that while we're unlikely to get an influx of people as substantial as this again we're not going to be completely cut off from Numenor so it is still possible to get more people in the future.

Lastly for the companions, I've gone for the Captain and the Knight. The Knight because he covers our obvious weaknesses when it comes to combat and command, we need someone to lead our forces. Also, while I've opted not to also pick up his twin sons I think by selecting the Knight we have a chance of getting them in the future. As I said before it's not like we're cutting off all contact with Numenor and if they decide to go adventuring in a few decades they could easily decide to base themselves where their father is.

Additionally, because we have the ships and an incredible captain its not like we can't make a return trip in the future for more colonists.

As for the others I've decided to ignore. The Last Lord of Eldalondë I just think is more harm than good honestly, I'm just not convinced 300 men who hate the elves is a good idea given they're one of the major powers in the World.

The Lady Shaper I have to say I wasn't tempted by at all. The fact that - at best - she can be described as 'not quite an enemy', combined with her higher rank within the Guild and her independent power base simply makes her too big a risk in a fledgling colony. The years we have in front of us will already be a massive challenge without adding such an obvious potential threat to the highest level of our colony.
 
[x] Plan The Three Loyal Companions
-[] Hyarnustar (Warriors/ House of Hador)
--[] Gather a sizeable amount of colonists from here. (2 Ships)
-[] Rómenna (Shipwrights)
--[] Gather a sizeable amount of colonists from here. (2 Ships)
-[] Forostar (Construction)
--[] Gather a sizeable amount of colonists from here. (2 Ships)
-[] Andustar (Faithful / House of Beor)
--[] Gather a great amount of colonists from here. (5 ships)
-[] Hyarrostar (Woodmen/ House of Haleth)
--[] Gather a large amount of colonists from here. (3 Ships)
-[] The Shapers
-[] Númenórean Iron
-[] Ships
-[] The Captain
-[] The Knight
-[] Angrenlond, The Harbor Of Iron

Colonist choices:
No one from the King's Lands. Maxing out the learned, Faithful Shapers from Andustar and prioritising Hyarrostar for Woodmen who are very distantly connected to the Druedain living close to our new settlement.
Companion choices:
Both the Knight and the the Captain are old friends of ours and should nicely cover areas in which we are weak.
The Captain will prove very useful to enhance the maritime power of our new 15 ship fleet. Especially, if we want to have close ties with Lond Daer and Tharbad. Both of which lie along our shipping route to Khazad-dum.
The Knight's connection to the King is a bit troubling, but there is also an upside to this. He will probably be the "de-facto" leader of the King's Men in our settlement. Having this position filled by somebody we can still trust is worth a lot. I hope that as our personal friend we will have a positive influence on him in that regard and through him on all King's Men in our settlment.

Approval voting:
[X] Plan Setting the Foundations
 
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Since there are some concerns, can you tell us some more about the lady shaper @Telamon?

We should know some IC stuff about her.

Ûrîphêl is a hard person to know. Fiendishly clever and prevailingly intelligent, she frowns on most pasttimes of Númenorean society, preferring a night in her study to socializing or dancing. One of the youngest ever accepted into the Houses of Learning, she demands perfection from everyone and anyone around her, including herself. Three of her apprentices are said to have cracked under the strain. She is exacting, demanding, precise, humorless. She is really the sort of person you should hate, and for a time you did. In younger, bolder days (like your fifties) you might have called her a rival.

But now, after a century, you both understand each other all too well. She has devoted her life singularly to the pursuit of knowledge, and there is nothing more to be learned here amid these decrepit old men. There is a fire in her heart that burns to see new places and new things, to do new things. Yes, you understand her all too well, and you do not think you would call her a friend, no — but not an enemy either.
 
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With this in mind, I think expense of getting all 14 ships + captain can be justified, don't you think?
Well, I am not so sure. The Guild gets us those 4 ships now, but they expect to get 40 ships back later. Will getting 4 ships now allow us a literally tenfold increase in returns? I don't really think so. Our first years will be spent at establishing, and by the time we really grow into the hub of trade, I think we should be able to afford to just buy four or more ships then - Guild of Venturers might calm down by then too, or just realize that we are too profitable for them to sink. I'll approval vote the plan for now, though.
 
Okay people Knight is literally Kings fanboy and probably strong supporter of kings men policy while lady shaper at least is ambitious in a way to learn new things which means that she probably won't opose us leaning towards the faithful, or being friendly towards the elfs.
 
Ûrîphêl is a hard person to know. Fiendishly clever and prevailingly intelligent, she frowns on most pasttimes of Númenorean society, preferring a night in her study to socializing or dancing. One of the youngest ever accepted into the Houses of Learning, she demands perfection from everyone and anyone around her, including herself. Three of her apprentices are said to have cracked under the strain. She is exacting, demanding, precise, humorless. She is really the sort of person you should hate, and for a time you did. In younger, bolder, days (like your fifties) you might have called her a rival.

But now, after a century, you both understand each other all too well. She has devoted her life singularly to the pursuit of knowledge, and there is nothing more to be learned here amid these decrepit old men. There is a fire in her heart that burns to see new places and new things, to do new things. Yes, you understand her all too well, and you do not think you would call her a friend, no — but not an enemy either.
If it's not too much trouble, could you please answer some of the other questions that have been asked? For instance, how long would the logging rights for the Man in Gold last? Fifty years, in perpetuity, or what?

Also, do we have the option to get four ships of colonists from one region? At the moment we have to choose between between three or five, without any tier in between.

Okay people Knight is literally Kings fanboy and probably strong supporter of kings men policy while lady shaper at least is ambitious in a way to learn new things which means that she probably won't opose us leaning towards the faithful, or being friendly towards the elfs.
@Telamon Since the Knight is described as a man of "honour and faith", does that mean he's possibly actually sympathetic to the Faithful, despite being a royal knight? If he is a firm King's Man, would his loyalty to the King and his heirs come before his loyalty to us?
 
[X] Plan Setting the Foundations
-[X] Hyarnustar (Warriors)
--[X] Gather a sizeable amount of colonists from here. (2 Ships)
-[X] Rómenna (Shipwrights)
--[X] Gather a few colonists from here. (1 Ship)
-[X] Forostar (Miners)
--[X] Gather a sizeable amount of colonists from here. (2 Ships)
-[X] Andustar (Faithful / House of Beor)
--[X] Gather a large amount of colonists from here. (3 Ships)
-[X] Mittalmar (Farmers)
--[X] Gather a few colonists from here. (1 Ship)
-[X] Hyarrostar (Woodsmen / Scouts)
--[X] Gather a few colonists from here. (1 Ship)
-[X] The Shapers
-[X] Númenórean Iron
-[X] The Captain
-[X] The Knight
-[X] Minas Giliath, The Tower of Stars (Elvish)


So the objective of this Plan is to give us a solid foundation to build from while minimising troublesome and potentially corrupting elements.

For the Colonists I've gone fairly heavy on the House of Beor from Andustar, they tend to be Loremasters and Shapers but they're also capable (if not the best) warriors and most importantly they're stable, their hearts are sure and pure. I've also grabbed two ships of warriors and one of the scouts/woodsmen. I think that gives us a solid foundation for our defenses.

With that done I've also gone for a ship of Mariners as I feel they're useful to have, but probably not something we need to go all-in on. Next, I've gotten two ships of miners because as much as they might dislike us as a Shaper I feel we can overcome that and we're going to need the miners. And lastly one ship of the farmers because while they are Kings Men they're outnumbered enough that they shouldn't be able to cause issues and their skillset is incredibly useful.


For Purchases, I've gone for Shapers and Númenórean Iron because combined they improve and accelerate the construction of the core of our City, probably the Citadel? I've chosen not to select a third purchase because it's important for us to remember that these are purchases, and they come with corresponding debts and while the ships are appealing they're massively expensive. Also, it's important to remember that while we're unlikely to get an influx of people as substantial as this again we're not going to be completely cut off from Numenor so it is still possible to get more people in the future.

Lastly for the companions, I've gone for the Captain and the Knight. The Knight because he covers our obvious weaknesses when it comes to combat and command, we need someone to lead our forces. Also, while I've opted not to also pick up his twin sons I think by selecting the Knight we have a chance of getting them in the future. As I said before it's not like we're cutting off all contact with Numenor and if they decide to go adventuring in a few decades they could easily decide to base themselves where their father is.

Additionally, because we have the ships and an incredible captain its not like we can't make a return trip in the future for more colonists.

As for the others I've decided to ignore. The Last Lord of Eldalondë I just think is more harm than good honestly, I'm just not convinced 300 men who hate the elves is a good idea given they're one of the major powers in the World.

The Lady Shaper I have to say I wasn't tempted by at all. The fact that - at best - she can be described as 'not quite an enemy', combined with her higher rank within the Guild and her independent power base simply makes her too big a risk in a fledgling colony. The years we have in front of us will already be a massive challenge without adding such an obvious potential threat to the highest level of our colony.
You know what, this is close enough to my plan, and I do understand the concerns regarding the Last Lords, so....

[X] Plan Setting the Foundations
 
If it's not too much trouble, could you please answer some of the other questions that have been asked? For instance, how long would the logging rights for the Man in Gold last? Fifty years, in perpetuity, or what?

Also, do we have the option to get four ships of colonists from one region? At the moment we have to choose between between three or five, without any tier in between.


@Telamon Since the Knight is described as a man of "honour and faith", does that mean he's possibly actually sympathetic to the Faithful, despite being a royal knight? If he is a firm King's Man, would his loyalty to the King and his heirs come before his loyalty to us?

As Númenoreans and Men, the loyalty of literally every person on Numenor (including you) to the King comes before their loyalty to you. If you wish to change that, you should probably make yourself into someone men would love over their king.

But the Knight, while a loyal King's Man, is also very faithful (not the faction, but personality-wise). He takes his oaths and promises seriously, perhaps moreso than most in Numenor.

There is no tier between three and five ships, this is correct.
 
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I mean. All companions come with a drawback. Old age, hatred towards both factions, loyalty between friend and king, crisis of loyalty between the twins (or rash actions of youth), personal ambition, in it for the profit.

All of them could possibly also be twisted and corrupted by Sauron, that's kinda his thing. I can think of a lure for all of them.
 
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The Lady Shaper I have to say I wasn't tempted by at all. The fact that - at best - she can be described as 'not quite an enemy', combined with her higher rank within the Guild and her independent power base simply makes her too big a risk in a fledgling colony. The years we have in front of us will already be a massive challenge without adding such an obvious potential threat to the highest level of our colony.
Now that Telamon written more on her, she doesn't strike me as a kind of person who is ambitious for personal power and ruling in our colony. Instead, she will go out learning all lore there is to learn - which strikes me as something we would very much like, because the more lore our city has the better the wonders we can make are. There might be a danger of her going out to learn the dark lore of Sauron, but I think it's entirely within our capabilities to stir her away from it.

Edit: Oh right, the name vote. @Telamon, do you want it in the plans or as a separate vote?
 
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[X] Plan: Flame of the West atop a Tower of Iron

-[X] Hyarnustar:
--[X] Gather a sizeable amount of colonists from here. (2 Ships)

-[X] Rómenna

--[X] Gather a sizeable amount of colonists from here. (2 Ships)

-[X] Forostar:

--[X] Gather a sizeable amount of colonists from here. (2 Ships)

-[X] Andustar:

--[X] Gather a large amount of colonists from here. (3 Ships)

-[X] Mittalmar:

--[X] Gather a sizeable amount of colonists from here. (2 Ships)

-[X] Hyarrostar:

--[X] Gather a large amount of colonists from here. (3 Ships)

-[X] Númenórean Iron

-[X] Ships

-[X] Shipwright

-[X] The Knight

-[X] The Lady Shaper

-[X] Minas Angren, The Tower Of Iron


She is said to be "not quite an enemy". Not a friend, at all. That's quite a downgrade next to Captain and Knight, comparable to Lord, Twins and Man of Gold.
We do not know her motives and she refuses to disclose those. I do not trust her. Even Man of Gold is, in some ways, better - we know he is in for money, nothing less, nothing more. We can work with this. We cannot work with her, as we have no idea what does she want to get out of the deal - and she is strong enough she is unlikely to be content with being mere subordinate. After all, all Numenorians have their pride, and this one is proud and ambitious even for Numenoreans.
We know her motives. Per the QM's description of her character, she wants to push the boundaries of knowledge, rather than sitting on a chair and arguing with old men for the rest of her life. That ambition actually meshes with our own, seeing as she wants to actively develop knew knowledge and technology rather than being content to stick with the past and what's already been discovered. Regardless, we know she doesn't want to rule as a politician or anything like that.
 
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Ûrîphêl is a hard person to know. Fiendishly clever and prevailingly intelligent, she frowns on most pasttimes of Númenorean society, preferring a night in her study to socializing or dancing. One of the youngest ever accepted into the Houses of Learning, she demands perfection from everyone and anyone around her, including herself. Three of her apprentices are said to have cracked under the strain. She is exacting, demanding, precise, humorless. She is really the sort of person you should hate, and for a time you did. In younger, bolder days (like your fifties) you might have called her a rival.

But now, after a century, you both understand each other all too well. She has devoted her life singularly to the pursuit of knowledge, and there is nothing more to be learned here amid these decrepit old men. There is a fire in her heart that burns to see new places and new things, to do new things. Yes, you understand her all too well, and you do not think you would call her a friend, no — but not an enemy either.

That's better than I thought. She can be dangerous - does not sound like she lets moral scruples or practicality get in the way of knowledge - but it's...useful. And ambition does not seem political, so.

Actually, we want to collect and preserve Lore, so she can indeed be of use to us, if we keep in mind what kind of person she is.

Well, I am not so sure. The Guild gets us those 4 ships now, but they expect to get 40 ships back later. Will getting 4 ships now allow us a literally tenfold increase in returns? I don't really think so. Our first years will be spent at establishing, and by the time we really grow into the hub of trade, I think we should be able to afford to just buy four or more ships then - Guild of Venturers might calm down by then too, or just realize that we are too profitable for them to sink. I'll approval vote the plan for now, though.

Good point, but 4 ships now mean more population too. That's not nothing.

But yeah, your vote is quite fine enough too, seeing as we basically only disagree on value of trade and value of 4 more ships.
[X] Plan Unintended Waifu Plan
[X] Plan Shipping
 
I am getting one of Lady Shaper/Twins/The Knight, latter if he's not much of manic loyalist, one of two former otherwise.
oh rip he literally named one of sons after the king alright then so how about no




Yeah, that's fair. Honestly, I see the appeal of your vote here. I am not sure Twins are useful either - at least, I do not get what's the point of getting them, compared to Lady or Lord or Knight or...yeeah. Only benefits are, what, Seer and some random kids who haven't seen war and so want to start one?
Yyeah, consider me convinced.

OTOH, look at text of Man of Gold again.


We are apparently quite well-positioned to be a trade hub of trade between north and south.
And we can keep all 10/14 ships.
With this in mind, I think expense of getting all 14 ships + captain can be justified, don't you think?

[X] Plan Shipping
-[X] Hyarnustar
--[X] Gather a sizeable amount of colonists from here. (2 Ships)
-[X] Rómenna
--[X] Gather a large amount of colonists from here. (3 Ships)
-[X] Forostar
--[X] Gather a sizeable amount of colonists from here. (2 Ships)
-[X] Andustar
--[X] Gather a great amount of colonists from here. (5 ships)
-[X] Hyarrostar
--[X] Gather a sizeable amount of colonists from here. (2 Ships)
-[X] The Shapers
-[X] Númenórean Iron
-[X] Ships
-[X] The Captain
-[X] The Lady Shaper

So.
Prioritized are:
1. Andustar - all the Faithful; means loads of Lore and Shapers and people "true of heart"(c) - meaning less of corruption target, I hope? Still corruptible, ofc, but it's something.
2. Romenna - we are well-positioned to be a trade hub between northern and southern colonies. We need shippery people for that, I presume.

edit: also, all the Faithful probably mean we are less likely to go and start a fight with someone because some fucko subordinate held a grudge over a wrong word or whatever.
Plus, Elf-Friends - maybe means we can trade with Lindon or whoever? Can be of use.
I'm a bit confused about why your plan is geared towards seaborn trade. If you want shipping so much, then why haven't you got the shipwright in your plan? Any ships we build for trade or war will be inferior to those of the other men of Numenor unless we have a skilled shipwright.
 
Now that Telamon written more on her, she doesn't strike me as a kind of person who is ambitious for personal power and ruling in our colony. Instead, she will go out learning all lore there is to learn - which strikes me as something we would very much like, because the more lore our city has the better the wonders we can make are. There might be a danger of her going out to learn the dark lore of Sauron, but I think it's entirely within our capabilities to stir her away from it.
Telamons expansion on her character makes me less, but still somewhat, concerned. But even with that being the case I see a greater benefit from the Knight and the Captain.

The Knight because we absolutely need a leader of our military forces and having him in the city increases the chances of his sons showing up at some point. The Captain because our ships are in a very poor state and we need an experienced captain to get the best out of them, both for securing us from naval attack and ensuring we can trade.
 
I'm a bit confused about why your plan is geared towards seaborn trade. If you want shipping so much, then why haven't you got the shipwright in your plan? Any ships we build for trade or war will be inferior to those of the other men of Numenor unless we have a skilled shipwright.

Because shipwright is more expensive. 14 ships is a half-decent flotilla, especially with an experienced captain.
Although I am probably indeed being greedy. I'll think about it.
 
@Telamon I did a quick check and didn't see a clarification regarding where exactly you are referring to in regards to "You sail up the Isen and establish a colony at it's mouth.", but given the references to what is surrounding us are we generally located where the Isen flows into the ocean along the coast or more where the Adorn and the Isen meet at the westernmost tip of the land that would become Rohan?
 
@Telamon How many people (on average) are we getting per ship? Specifically how many Rómennans (Shipwrights) will we get from one ship of colonists and how many ships could they crew?
 
[x] Plan The Three Loyal Companions
[x] Lore of the past, Hope for the Future
[X] Plan Unintended Waifu Plan
[X] Angrenlond, the Iron Haven (Elvish)

Edit: I should really stick with a single voting option at this point...
 
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