Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
Robinton
Probably petting Schrödinger's cat
- Location
- Scientifically proving a miracle
[X] Plan: Prometheus Ascendant
[X] Plan In the Spirit of Efficient Phones
[X] Plan: Efficient Phones And Superior Firepower
[X] Plan: Prometheus: Juvenat edition
Edit also:
[X] Plan: Prometheus Ascendant and Cogitare Training
I'm happy with anything that invests to get more research. All four of these seem to do so adequately - or even quite well in some cases.
[X] Plan In the Spirit of Efficient Phones
[X] Plan: Efficient Phones And Superior Firepower
[X] Plan: Prometheus: Juvenat edition
Edit also:
[X] Plan: Prometheus Ascendant and Cogitare Training
I'm happy with anything that invests to get more research. All four of these seem to do so adequately - or even quite well in some cases.
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Updated Juvenat Edition based on Neablis's feedback.
IMO spending an Ascendancy boon on Vellkar OMC kind of defeats the point. If we want both humans and Vellkar to feel that they have a more equal relationship, we can't do it by ordering the humans to give the Vellkar critical tech.
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I mean, that's just objectively wrong? What a permanent social intervention actually does is set up an advocacy NGO that pursues the stated goal rather than telling the government they have to do something. Also, Neablis has already flat out said it'd work, and that it would keep working after Vellkar OMC is complete, which Vita just researching Vellkar OMC on its own certainly wouldn't do.
The point, as I understand it, is to ensure that the Vellkar aren't left behind by the SA. Spending one boon one time to motivate the SA to help them keep up directly seems to be the most elegant solution to this, especially compared to needing ongoing RP investment.
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An advocacy organization on Denva II, run by humans, that is ultimately still under Ascendancy supervision. It wouldn't be awful, but it's just not the kind of relationship that I want them to have. I want Vita to teach the Vellkar to fish instead of having them depend on someone else who owns the fishing pole to do so.
Besides, if we do the permanent social intervention it will take several turns for the Ascendancy to finish the research ("three times longer"). Whereas we could do it right now, or at worst next turn.
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The job doesn't end at Vellkar OMC. So there is no "just" do the research - and it doesn't matter how you characterize the NGO that gets created, it does what the QM says it does, and the QM said that it keeps working after OMC finishes and that it would have the largest ongoing impact. Is it by humans under SA supervision? Then it does all of that while being run by humans under SA supervision.
I don't see why it couldn't have vellkar in the organization considering we'd own it, but like, whatever, it doesn't matter. It does what the QM says it does. There is no point-defeating of any kind happening here.
There also is no comparative "teach the Vellkar to fish" to keep up - the vellkar have a far smaller population, so they just... won't be able to do their own research as fast. That's not saying they're worse, just that they're smaller. The only way they keep parity is if the SA (or vita) helps them keep parity.
Not that there are any plans available to pursue this "teach Denva Primus to fish" route, nor any method you've suggested to do so. You're comparing an inaccurately portrayed version of this boon to a non-existant undefined alternative. Having Vita make Vellkar OMC is not teaching the Vellkar to fish.
The closest thing to it is... well, all the RP boosters that the Prometheus plans are doing, since that improves everyone's ability to do research on their own.
Which is also important context, because yeah: both plans that take the boon research not one, not two, but three RP boosters that the SA can use. The characterization of Vellkar OMC taking "several" turns is off base when the same plans implement a quantum leap in their research capacity.
Likewise, if you want to spend the RP on doing it yourself next turn, you can do that too. We'll have more RP to throw around if either the two plans which take this boon win.
We won't have to, but we can. More RP helps everything. Hence:
[X] Plan: Prometheus Ascendant
[X] Plan: Prometheus: Juvenat edition
Setting the Denva system up to manage its own affairs equitably is just a good idea in general, tbh.
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[X] Plan: Meat, Metal, and the Soul
- Location
- Near Freiburg in South-West Germany
Are you sure the Velkar have a lower population? They build down, not up, so its really hard for outsiders to get accurate data they aren't releasing voluntarily (probably one of the reason they survived even with the Imperium knowing of their existence).
avatar11792
Et Sic Incipit
- Location
- Planet Earth, North America
Agreed. I always got the impression that the Vellkar, being so underground focused, have vast societies in the hundreds of millions down there. Maybe not prior to Vita's awakening, being bronze age tech then, but the sheer leap in tech, knowledge, and industrial capability has probably catapulted them into a huge population boom.
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Considering they had to bounce back from multiple attempts by the imperium at genocide and that expanding via tunneling is slower than expanding via walking... Yeah, I'm... pretty sure?
I could have sworn Neablis said something about it at some point (Vaguely recall it happening while the thread was discussing what kinds of things the vellkar boons could be redeemed for), but I can't find it at the moment.
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So, the big point of contention is the research slate. The runner up, Prometheus Ascendant, devotes most of its research to RP-generating technologies like Machine Spirit Hallucinations and Superhuman enhancements, and also gets High Energy Physics, but doesn't get Juvenat or finish Faith is My Shield. Instead of getting Vellkar OMC directly, it uses a permanent social intervention boon to ensure that the SA itself will provide that.
I have a variant of Promethius (Prometheus: Juvenat edition) that gets Juvenat and finishes Faith instead of HEP.
Research specific to Meat said:
Research specific to Promethius said:
Research changes in Promethius: Juvenat Edition said:
The vellkar boon in the prometheus plans is this:
Which Neablis confirmed the effects of here. Notably, with all the RP boosters being shared, the SA's progress on researching Vellkar OMC would be greatly sped up.
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You do remember that the Velkar were, up until about 100 years ago, a species of tribals that tried to fight back against Imperial forces by bludgeoning them with their tails, right? They were not terribly advanced, and most of what they have is a mix of Vita's uplift and access to functioning examples of advanced tech. Their population is likely something like a few million, barring either a really fast reproductive rate or incredibly advanced medical practices compared to the rest of their technology.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[/QUOTE]
Not how Quotes work @Prime 2.0, you ended up overwriting you own vote instead of actually making a Quote. I'm honestly not even sure how this Quote of yours failed.
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It failed because I missed the closing double quotation mark on the quote's title. It's fixed now; Thanks for pointing it out!
Also industrialized agriculture. Food production is also a big limiter on population size.
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Zarithune's maw is the black hole system. It borders the Y'kalla drift subsector which is under chaos control.
In the future we could build the High Energy lab there and study Grav weapons and Necron tech there for thematic synergy. While at the same time fortifying the system against Chaos.
In the future we could build the High Energy lab there and study Grav weapons and Necron tech there for thematic synergy. While at the same time fortifying the system against Chaos.
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While my personal preference for this turn is to do Juvenat Beginnings rather than HEP (hence my Prometheus variant), I believe that any studies done of the black hole will benefit strongly from having done HEP first, rather than the black hole benefitting HEP.
No matter when it's done though, it'll be better if we have more RP with which to do it. Here are the plans that take three different RP-boosting technologies:
...contrasted with Plan: Meat, Metal, and the Soul, which finishes none.
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Eh, more like a Yellow-Flag to me. With context it is a little concerning, but then again, the Cogitares are already some of the biggest body modding freaks in the Ascendancy and it's not surprising a few want scales and feathers to grow naturally. Something to keep a lookout for, but not actually evidence of anything.
Honestly, the Companion Cogitators option doesn't appeal to me that much, I'm personally more partial to Sculptor of Narrative or Keeper of the Covenant. I just don't really feel like going with the one that's the most "number go up" option for Victan.
Honestly I think we did enough science turns for a while. I really want to focus on exploring and meeting new people before all the small fry get gobbled up by the main factions here
Perhaps, but I will say this: next turn I want us to get Combat Bot Melee research done b/c we've been putting it off since forever and we keep running into enemies that we'd do better against if we had an effective tarpit.
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Thinking about it, I think this is my personal priority this turn. So I've added approval votes for every Plan that does Juvenat Beginnings.
