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I still think we should replace the research that only gives us discounts with the one that gives us RP in general.

That's two levels of augmentation too many (150 RP) vs Machine Spirit Hallucinations (150 RP)
Or do both! That's also an option.
[X] Plan So what are the Vallkar like?
[X] Plan So what are the Vallkar like?
Could I interest y'all in approval voting for the other two plans that raise aurora and see the Vellkar? It's these two:
[] Plan: Healthy Dawn
[] Plan: Aurora Healthcare and raising, warp comms, primus base prep, vellkar get to know
 
[] Plan: Aurora Healthcare and raising, warp comms, primus base prep, vellkar get to know
I'd be interested in this one if you swapped out:
--[] Adult genetic engineering (100 RP)
--[] Help Cia's Training (50 RP)

For 2 augs too many, as that both has more immediate application for palliative care (being mutations research) and will discount all the gene techs. Putting Cia on active training is already enough to deal with the stagnation.

Could also rejigger the BP plan to put a second psy lab in the oubliette, which will cover for psyker safety this turn to compensate for you not finishing Faith.

And I do feel you need to compensate for that, you're having Cia and Gwen on active improvement and now we have another 40 psykers on board. +10 to just Cia's roll is not going to cut it there imo.

Don't forget: Cia may have given us a poke about her stagnation, but she also said she trusts our prioritization. She was not asking us to drop anything pressing or important, and Aurora's medical care definitely counts in my book.


I'd also be more interested if you additionally added Kyle's write-in about the stasis offer, because per the QM's clarification, that essentially functions by changing the failure state from "Shit childhood" to "delay a turn". For two BP, that's a steal.

...this is all assuming you plan to do a factory ship design, of course. You could, for example, skip the research lab and put that RP towards the ship and faith, while putting the freed BP towards putting the psy lab in the oubliette and additional shielding.

That's my thoughts. For now, keeping my vote where it is.
 
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Now that I think about it, have we considered having Cia raise the kid? I haven't really seen a argument for why Vita specificlaly would be the best at caring for them, and as far as I can tell none of the leading plans have her doing anything other then passive learning action, which we've already been told won't do anything for her unless she crits. It seems like it would free up a action.
 
For 2 augs too many, as that both has more immediate application for palliative care (being mutations research) and will discount all the gene techs. Putting Cia on active training is already enough to deal with the stagnation.
2 augs too many does not give any immediate applications.
It only gives mutations and other discounts.

Adult genetic engineering is necessary to give anyone past birth genetic treatments.
Like Aurora.

It is necessary to get before we can give her any genetic care.
 
2 augs too many does not give any immediate applications.
It only gives mutations and other discounts.

Adult genetic engineering is necessary to give anyone past birth genetic treatments.
Like Aurora.

It is necessary to get before we can give her any genetic care.
I don't see why it wouldn't help?
"A greater understanding of mutations would help, I think." Your voice is thoughtful. "Her genetics are a scrambled mess, but we can treat the symptoms as they pop up."
Greater knowledge of mutations means that we can treat symptoms better.

2 augs gives us greater knowledge of mutations.

Therefore, 2 augs lets us treat symptoms better.

As straightforward as it seems to me though, if there's doubt about it may as well get the record set straight. I could be wrong.

Will two augmentations too many assist with Aurora's Healthcare, @Neablis? Everybody's getting Understanding Mutations either way, but I figured adding this would help as well.
 
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2 augs too many does not give any immediate applications.
It only gives mutations and other discounts.

Adult genetic engineering is necessary to give anyone past birth genetic treatments.
Like Aurora.

It is necessary to get before we can give her any genetic care.
Understanding Mutations explicitly includes potential cures for Mutations. Adult Genetic Engineering isn't necessary. Two levels too many isn't either, but it discounts "genetics, mutation, augmentation research" which covers most of the biology tree, hence the interest in grabbing it as early as possible.
 
I'd be interested in this one if you swapped out:
--[] Adult genetic engineering (100 RP)
--[] Help Cia's Training (50 RP)

For 2 augs too many, as that both has more immediate application for palliative care (being mutations research) and will discount all the gene techs. Putting Cia on active training is already enough to deal with the stagnation.

Could also rejigger the BP plan to put a second psy lab in the oubliette, which will cover for psyker safety this turn to compensate for you not finishing Faith.

And I do feel you need to compensate for that, you're having Cia and Gwen on active improvement and now we have another 40 psykers on board. +10 to just Cia's roll is not going to cut it there imo.

Don't forget: Cia may have given us a poke about her stagnation, but she also said she trusts our prioritization. She was not asking us to drop anything pressing or important, and Aurora's medical care definitely counts in my book.


I'd also be more interested if you additionally added Kyle's write-in about the stasis offer, because per the QM's clarification, that essentially functions by changing the failure state from "Shit childhood" to "delay a turn". For two BP, that's a steal.

...this is all assuming you plan to do a factory ship design, of course. You could, for example, skip the research lab and put that RP towards the ship and faith, while putting the freed BP towards putting the psy lab in the oubliette and additional shielding.

That's my thoughts. For now, keeping my vote where it is.
Healthy Dawn has 2 augs 2 many!
Now that I think about it, have we considered having Cia raise the kid? I haven't really seen a argument for why Vita specificlaly would be the best at caring for them, and as far as I can tell none of the leading plans have her doing anything other then passive learning action, which we've already been told won't do anything for her unless she crits. It seems like it would free up a action.
We're hoping that having Vita do it means more total attention; additionally, some plans have Cia or Gwen helping Vita in case of trouble.
Could I maybe convince you to also vote for Plan: Healthy Dawn or Plan: Aurora Healthcare and raising, warp comms, primus base prep, vellkar get to know?
They have a lot in common with F0lkl0re's plan.
 
Healthy Dawn has 2 augs 2 many!
I mean, it does? But not taking Ansibles this turn is a dealbreaker for me. Given Neablis's statements on expedition feasibility, we really, really want to have our minimum techs for that done this turn just so it's actually book-keepable for him, and Ansibles quality was one of the unknowns he lumped in as making a more comprehensive "go on this mission" boon unworkable, alongside the factory ship.

Even if said mission is just "establish bases at the Zantris entry points and otherwise scout the subsector" for now, rather than gunning it directly for X's Mine.
 
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Understanding Mutations explicitly includes potential cures for Mutations. Adult Genetic Engineering isn't necessary. Two levels too many isn't either, but it discounts "genetics, mutation, augmentation research" which covers most of the biology tree, hence the interest in grabbing it as early as possible.
Adult genetic engineering is necessary for any gene therapy for people who have already been born. It is pretty important, especially since we hope to use Complex Genetic Enhancement and Navigator Genetics to help her later.
 
Adult genetic engineering is necessary for any gene therapy for people who have already been born. It is pretty important, especially since we hope to use Complex Genetic Enhancement and Navigator Genetics to help her later.
It is, yeah, and it's a valid way to put RP towards the goal of genetic treatment in the future. But if 2 augs can help this turn, I'd still much rather have that instead, even setting aside RP efficiency from taking the tech that specifically says it can discount gene research first.

...But that waits on Neablis for now.
 
I'm not sure I see why she'd be a more attentive parent then any of our heroes tbh, or if theirs a real point in putting multiple on the action.
Neablis has clarified that there is a point - at the expense of being narratively a little distracted, anyone else so assigned will add a saving throw to our navigator raising roll.
My interpretation is that they'll be around to help, and if things go badly will plan to step in. I'll allow it. It'll probably raise the bar for them to succeed on their actions a bit due to being distracted. I haven't decided on the breakpoints, and level-ups aren't strictly on the same breakpoints as the fail/poor/success/good/crit scale (last turn my metric for Gwen's level was >50)

But if you roll terribly but they roll well then it'll eat their action to rescue yours to some extent.
Which is pretty dang worth it considering our navigator raising roll is a flat 1d100 otherwise. See also the write-in about the stasis pod, which changes the fail state to "delay a turn" from "shit part of your childhood happened".
I'm hesitant to allow you to use a stasis chamber for Aurora. I'll allow it, and just figure out a way to fit it into the narrative if it's important. The most likely outcome for it to do anything is that if you fail the roll then Aurora goes into the stasis chamber, and you lose the action, with Aurora staying the same age, but you get the chance to "rescue" the effect later on.

Basically you're replacing the risk of you doing a bad job raising Aurora for you losing the action.
I think this one is also super worth it - it makes this more like important research: if we screw it up, we'll get the chance to spend another action to fix it next turn. Doesn't even cost anything unless it triggers, which is very nice.


Meanwhile, the listed benefits of having Vita do the raising is an emotional attachment to Vita (which I should hope we want in and of itself!) and also the ability to write-in how we do the raising. General consensus seems to be that we want to pass on our love for exploration.
 
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Understanding Mutations explicitly includes potential cures for Mutations. Adult Genetic Engineering isn't necessary. Two levels too many isn't either, but it discounts "genetics, mutation, augmentation research" which covers most of the biology tree, hence the interest in grabbing it as early as possible.
I don't see why it wouldn't help?
Neablis has given us an extensive list of what helps.
two to many is not among them.

Adult Genetic Engineering is. It specifically is paired with Understanding Mutations.
With only Understanding Mutations we might know what's wrong.. and could apply that to a embryo. But that's it.
Without it we'd know a cure, but can't apply it to someone already born.
If Victan had rolled well on raising Aurora he would have gotten a bonus to continuing. He didn't, so he doesn't. Part of the results of the poor roll was her continuing to mutate. That will be mitigated by improved medical technology. This roll wasn't terrible because you already have decent technology, but any of Understanding Mutations, Expert Surgery, Physical Appearance is Skin-deep and Regeneration will help. And Navigator genetics, of course, though you'd also need Adult Genetic Engineering & likely Understanding Mutations to develop a full-spectrum cure for most of her conditions. Navigators have issues, and you rolled poorly for that.
 
Adult Genetic Engineering is. It specifically is paired with Understanding Mutations.
With only Understanding Mutations we might know what's wrong.. and could apply that to a embryo. But that's it.
Without it we'd know a cure, but can't apply it to someone already born.
Neablis changed his mind about needing to be able to apply genetic engineering to use understanding mutations. He says so in the edit to the turnpost.

I literally quoted text from the quest of Vita directly saying that studying mutations would let her treat the symptoms even without being able to do anything about the genetics. Please reread the quote I provided.

In fact, reread the quote that you yourself made, he said any of those non genetic technologies would help. The qualifier he gave was only for the genetic technologies.

Navigator genetics is required for genetic therapy of any kind.

All of the other technologies can apply and help directly without genetic technology.

He did not say it was a complete list, but I am waiting for him to confirm whether or not two augs too many would help despite the very straightforward logic that says it should.
 
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Neablis has given us an extensive list of what helps.
two to many is not among them.

Adult Genetic Engineering is. It specifically is paired with Understanding Mutations.
With only Understanding Mutations we might know what's wrong.. and could apply that to a embryo. But that's it.
Without it we'd know a cure, but can't apply it to someone already born.
That seems like a clear misinterpretation of what you quoted. It specifically says Understanding Mutations will help. AGI is only called for in the last sentence as required for the complete solution. Not as a requisite to apply the other 4-5 useful technologies.
 
This still makes it more useful than two to many which is not seen anywhere.
"A greater understanding of mutations would help, I think." Your voice is thoughtful. "Her genetics are a scrambled mess, but we can treat the symptoms as they pop up."
Greater knowledge of mutations means that we can treat symptoms better.

2 augs gives us greater knowledge of mutations.

Therefore, 2 augs lets us treat symptoms better.

As straightforward as it seems to me though, if there's doubt about it may as well get the record set straight. I could be wrong.

Will two augmentations too many assist with Aurora's Healthcare, @Neablis? Everybody's getting Understanding Mutations either way, but I figured adding this would help as well.
He also didn't list stasis as something that could help, but it turned out that yes it could, once he was asked about it. He evidently did not provide a complete list of things that can help.

If you feel that you need a direct questmaster confirmation for this, I have already asked for him to give it.

You can stop fighting over this.
 
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This still makes it more useful than two to many which is not seen anywhere.
True, two too many is not there and is definitely not one I'd put near the front of the line for immediate action on Aurora. It might help, but it's obviously less of a fit to me.

It'd probably discount a number of the relevant techs, but that doesn't help if you're hitting them immediately.
 
@Neablis got a question. What sort of lvl 30 options are you thinking about for Anexa depending on which option we choose (particularly Maestro and Master of All)?
I'm not going to game it out fully, especially since I haven't decided yet. But it would be more dramatic and have more narrative requirements - my current thought for Maestro is that Anexa hitting level 30 would involve some kind of machine upload, and you'd have choices between her becoming a fully independent AI and some other things. For Master of All i'm not so sure, but likely some sort of tool to solve universal problems, like letting her turn her body into entirely nanotech or something. These are vague ideas, I don't have anything concrete.

I think we should use a boon to get a permanent mutual defense pact between us and Denva before that becomes more costly.
I don't think that should require a boon - depending on what you mean by "mutal defense pact." That's a diplomacy action.

I'd still very much like to build a big university and city, probably in Aetherion orbit, before we leave to try and setup some kind of ongoing recruitment that won't be a constant drain of boons, and as I said the last time I proposed that, the Vellkar would be more than welcome to attend. I feel like actually getting them involved with the rest of the system off their planet would be great for relations all around, but this turn is particularly busy.
Depending on exactly what you want, this is doable. You'd need to actually build the thing, staff it with some existing Cogitare and then most likely spend a boon to get Denva to send students with the understanding that you'd get to swing by and pick them up later.

Not sure about the Vellkar, it would at least require a diplomacy action to talk to them, and if you did with the intention of inviting people to the school that might be enough (especially with good rolls), or you'd need to earn and spend a boon. Or you could allow them to return home with their educations, in which case getting Vellkar students would be free.

@Neablis when there are 1~2 day left of voting before it closed, could you make a voting post that list all the up to date plans and the planner reason for it ? (in summary, of course, need to notify those planer so they should add a edit for their original plan for on their latest reasoning. So voters who didn't pay attention at first aware about it. After all, quite a lot of voters tend to be lazy to check without 'thing serve on a silver platter' or even edit their previous vote).
No. That sounds like a lot of work. If you want that to happen, you do it.

...Guh, I thought that Auks' design was within cramming, but I guess he allowed the living quarters to go over. Fixed it - I'm assuming I can't throw 22 BP into the factories to make it 1822 in manufactories, so 1800 it is.
Living space is hull equipment, it doesn't count for cramming.

@Neablis , I have a few questions.

1. Do you have technologies in mind to provide additional modular options for ground unit design? I'm thinking things like thicker armor, faster propulsion system, AA capability, ground sensor suite, that kind of thing. I've been browsing through the research tree, but I don't recall having seen anything that would specifically help ground vehicles that much.

2. Do you consider Baneblades and their variants to be Superheavy armor, and would be unlocked with researching that Tech? If yes, my priority for researching that would go up significantly higher.
1. Maybe. Nothing is firmly set in stone, but some of those won't be modular options - heavier armor = heavier chassis, faster = lighter chassis. Doing antigrav might give you antigrav modifications, doing superheavy would unlock superheavy tanks. There's stealth & sensor tech available to you that might unlock better stealth modifications & sensor modifications. AA capability is a very detailed level of abstraction, every unit probably has a bit.
2. Yes.

Will two augmentations too many assist with Aurora's Healthcare, @Neablis? Everybody's getting Understanding Mutations either way, but I figured adding this would help as well.
Let's read the tech:
-[] That's two levels of augmentation too many (150 RP) The Chaos Space Marines you fought are not really intact anymore, but there's enough accumulated gore spread around that you should be able to get a decent sample of their genetics and stuff like extra organs and surgical enhancements. And maybe mutations? (Discounts genetics, mutation, augmentation research. May unlock special researches around geneseed and space marine-specific augments.)

What does it do? It is about understanding Chaos Space Marine mutations/genetics, and primarily will give you a better understanding of Space Marines and the mutations the Chaos version accumulates. It will probably have no direct effect on Aurora's health (unless you crit?), but it will discount most of the other techs that would.
 
Let's read the tech:
-[] That's two levels of augmentation too many (150 RP) The Chaos Space Marines you fought are not really intact anymore, but there's enough accumulated gore spread around that you should be able to get a decent sample of their genetics and stuff like extra organs and surgical enhancements. And maybe mutations? (Discounts genetics, mutation, augmentation research. May unlock special researches around geneseed and space marine-specific augments.)

What does it do? It is about understanding Chaos Space Marine mutations/genetics, and primarily will give you a better understanding of Space Marines and the mutations the Chaos version accumulates. It will probably have no direct effect on Aurora's health (unless you crit?), but it will discount most of the other techs that would.
Hm. Aight, so ~30% chance of doing something directly, otherwise just discounts. Would that potentially include said other techs we research this turn? I know you said you like to avoid that, but the discounts are the main benefit of the 2 augs research.

Generally it seems the desire is to get a head start on the genetics so using, say, a discount to Understanding Mutations applied this turn to get more overflow RP into the genetics techs would make the choice a lot more appealing, IMO.

...not that I'd turn down getting to finish Faith along the way using the overflow either, assuming I went with one of Haganeko's plans.
 
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Hm. Aight, so ~30% chance of doing something directly, otherwise just discounts. Would that potentially include said other techs we research this turn? I know you said you like to avoid that, but the discounts are the main benefit of the tech.

Generally it seems the desire is to get a head start on the genetics so getting more overflow to direct into the genetics techs would make the choice a lot more appealing, IMO.

...not that I'd turn down getting to finish Faith along the way using the overflow either, assuming I went with one of Haganeko's plans.
What you get out of a tech depends on when and why you do it. If you do it with a slew of the techs it would discount and for the purpose of helping raise Aurora, I will either have it discount the follow-on techs or I'd use that "discount" to rescue a poor roll on another tech.

The final story is that it's less relevant than the techs I named, but it's not totally irrelevant.

p/s: Aside from above, it fine if you don't have time to do that here (and the most popular plan aren't gone as bad). I just hope this also not become a mess because of most voter didn't read most plans properly and just chosen the one that seem the most popular only for it to backfire hard.
Side note - I'm not in the habit of making plans backfire hard and I'm going to try to avoid ever doing it. I'll try to generally follow the intent of the plan rather than the letter, and if the winning plan is doing something that I think is stupid or will backfire in an obvious way I'll ask clarifying questions, because that usually means there's been a misunderstanding that is worth clearing up.

In return, I ask you to interpret my storytelling positively and give me the benefit of the doubt. Especially if I don't follow the letter of a plan, because there's usually a good reason.
 
Depending on exactly what you want, this is doable. You'd need to actually build the thing, staff it with some existing Cogitare and then most likely spend a boon to get Denva to send students with the understanding that you'd get to swing by and pick them up later.

Not sure about the Vellkar, it would at least require a diplomacy action to talk to them, and if you did with the intention of inviting people to the school that might be enough (especially with good rolls), or you'd need to earn and spend a boon. Or you could allow them to return home with their educations, in which case getting Vellkar students would be free.

So, my thinking was something along the lines of building a fairly enormous/high-tech/fancy university and then more-or-less running it as essentially a charity? It's not like we couldn't afford it. Tuition is free, people recommended by "our" Cogitare, any Cogitare, anyone else working for us, or the SA (and eventually Vellkar) government get preferential admittance in roughly that order.

And then the closest thing to "payment" is that the staff will be scouting the students on our behalf and subjecting everyone to low-key but still present advertising to "Sign up to work with Magos-Explorator Vita! Positions are always open in the areas of science, engineering, OMC Operation, military piloting! Family accommodations included at request as well as assistance in relocating, particularly if you are interested in transferring to X system where we have recently begun construction of a base."

Basically, offering free schooling and training to lots of people and counting on some of those people to then happily enlist, to get a slow and steady stream of recruits.
 
What you get out of a tech depends on when and why you do it. If you do it with a slew of the techs it would discount and for the purpose of helping raise Aurora, I will either have it discount the follow-on techs or I'd use that "discount" to rescue a poor roll on another tech.

The final story is that it's less relevant than the techs I named, but it's not totally irrelevant.
Excellent, thank you. :)

Given the clarifications, I feel that 2 Augs too Many is still a good pick for this turn over directly taking adult genetic engineering - between possible Mutations followup techs that could be made more accessible for direct treatment, discounting more genetics techs this turn, and the chance for immediate improvements to treatment (even if it's not as high as I thought it would be), I still like it quite a bit.
Living space is hull equipment, it doesn't count for cramming.
Ah, that makes sense.

I still don't think it's a good idea to use a vessel with as few personal defenses as that factory ship design for living space, but I know better what Auks was doing with the design now.
 
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