The problem with automatic uplift is that the best way to do it involves leaving people behind Cogitare members with OMC, diplomats etc... It is the number of those people that are going to limit us not how many fleets we can build and also for each uplift there are going to be decisions that are going to have to be made. There is a limit to how much you can automate the basic premise of this quest which is 'find new and interesting people, learn from them and uplift them'.
Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
The problem with automatic uplift is that the best way to do it involves leaving people behind Cogitare members with OMC, diplomats etc... It is the number of those people that are going to limit us not how many fleets we can build and also for each uplift there are going to be decisions that are going to have to be made. There is a limit to how much you can automate the basic premise of this quest which is 'find new and interesting people, learn from them and uplift them'.
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[X] Plan: Nova cannons go boom. Also muzzle Bongo.
- Location
- Earth
Edits made. Got enough to upgrade Psychic Shields for 2x 135 HP. Vita Core and Psychic Research Lab.
Sadly not enough to upgrade the demon vault with scry blocking even if we'd upgrade nothing else.
Seems like the lesser scry blocking on it has to do for now.
Specified to also turn over warp drive technology, not only abacus.
Added to also give superconductive.
Added warning about webway gate.
Sadly not enough to upgrade the demon vault with scry blocking even if we'd upgrade nothing else.
Seems like the lesser scry blocking on it has to do for now.
Specified to also turn over warp drive technology, not only abacus.
Added to also give superconductive.
Added warning about webway gate.
[X] Plan: Nova cannons, muzzle Bongo, research Faith.
[X] Plan: PPE for the nova cannon boom show! Also muzzle Bongo.
[X] Plan: PPE for the nova cannon boom show! Also muzzle Bongo.
- Location
- Boston
Absolute agreement on demonology. I want to get pretty far down the AI tree before thinking of sharing it. Really depends on how hard raising a stable / sane AI is.
You might want to drop a candle to upgrade a layer of the shields on the Warp lab, since that is where the demonology research will take place. Since it is a free floating station, it will not have the 1.5x refit cost. So 1,000 BP will perfectly upgrade the 200 HP outer shield.
^ @Prime 2.0 same for your plan.
We already gave them Juvenat. We distinctly gave them our full tech base and all our designs other than some of the warp-y bits. Juvenat is not warp-y so they know how to make the designs we have. @Glau worried quite a lot about that from what I remember.
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F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
Damn looks like your right.
EDIT: I honestly thought we had kept that one to ourselves.
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Just binged this quest yesterday, and it's pretty fun so far. Just to be clear what's our current goal while in Deva besides some minor uplifts here and there? Like are we just building up defenses for the system or are we going to plan tiny raids to clear out a handful of the bad guys in the nearby Chaos territory (obviously not the corrupted Forgeworld)?
Definitely think AI is important, especially if it means it could allow us to build more ships and maybe a small fleet (AI run ships with their own crews with a level of self-sufficiency that don't need to worry as much about Chaos), we build up an actual force then we're set.
Definitely think AI is important, especially if it means it could allow us to build more ships and maybe a small fleet (AI run ships with their own crews with a level of self-sufficiency that don't need to worry as much about Chaos), we build up an actual force then we're set.
- Location
- Earth
Hm.
If anything I'd do that to the inner shield, which is the one that would keep summoned daemons from looking outside.
But only if people want that. It would mean one less candle being built.
less vulnerable with raids VS less vulnerable during daemon research
I think the daemon is the greater danger. Both Anexa and Cia are going to have to be in the room with it.
- Location
- Boston
Inner shield makes sense.
I think keeping the demons blind to our work against them is worth the loss of one Candle.
Personal risk assessment might vary.
Welcome!
Aside from uplifting Denva we mostly want a safe to port to uptech and build a fleet. We generally want to get new weapons, better ships, FTL comms, and faster warp navigation.
Afterwards we will likely head to visit the Eldar or Space Marines to start diplomatic talks.
- Location
- Norway
Just going off vibes I'd prefer the shields. One more candle gives us marginal benefits against a plausible security threats, while the psy shields gives us significant capabilities against a probable threat.
- Location
- Earth
Do they have to be in the room?
I expect Vita to keep them away from the demon as much as possible, especially for Anexa.
Work through psy-shielded Seeker bots as much as possible.
Only have them be close to the daemon if it's actually needed for whatever reason.
I am completely willing to blow up the warp research lab with our ship weapons if we can't get the daemon under control by rolling poorly.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Some of my thoughts on your plan, @LightLan:
While getting Bongo's prison up to encryption standards would cost us whole ships... Just taking all the BP from psy research lab and free remaining repair bay BP to reinforce Bongo's prison could be a good idea too. A bit of quantity wouldn't be bad to add to the shielding of a demon-prisoner when we move to demonology, if we can't get both a lot of quantity and quality.
...But even then. While sacrificing ship production for shielding is expensive, I think it might be worth it anyway. Because as noted in your plan LL, those ships are meant for Denva (as manned ships we wouldn't have much use for them), so the question becomes if Denva would benefit from having them. However, thinking about this brought up this part in the update into my mind:
As a single-use BP boon would give us currently +20,000 BP, I'm guessing their current industrial capacity is pretty damn high. And with their experience with the invasion, I can see them rushing towards saturating the system with ships themselves. So, how much six ships of the design they can produce themselves would mean to Denva currently? Would it be worth to be instead spent on making sure that a daemon doesn't get to wreck havoc (or do something worse) on a bad roll?
While getting Bongo's prison up to encryption standards would cost us whole ships... Just taking all the BP from psy research lab and free remaining repair bay BP to reinforce Bongo's prison could be a good idea too. A bit of quantity wouldn't be bad to add to the shielding of a demon-prisoner when we move to demonology, if we can't get both a lot of quantity and quality.
...But even then. While sacrificing ship production for shielding is expensive, I think it might be worth it anyway. Because as noted in your plan LL, those ships are meant for Denva (as manned ships we wouldn't have much use for them), so the question becomes if Denva would benefit from having them. However, thinking about this brought up this part in the update into my mind:
@Neablis do we have observations or just communications from Denva about how soon and how many ships they will be producing? Just a very rough estimation would be fine.
As a single-use BP boon would give us currently +20,000 BP, I'm guessing their current industrial capacity is pretty damn high. And with their experience with the invasion, I can see them rushing towards saturating the system with ships themselves. So, how much six ships of the design they can produce themselves would mean to Denva currently? Would it be worth to be instead spent on making sure that a daemon doesn't get to wreck havoc (or do something worse) on a bad roll?
- Location
- Earth
If we get an invasion next turn they'll very much be worth it.
If we don't, they won't.
What are the risks of one?
Your guess is as good as mine. *Shrugs*
Eh, having 'some' other ships will absolutely help, simply because it splits the enemy's fire between them and the Spark, meaning that the Spark can be more aggressive and deal with them quicker. But the increase in capabilities, while it does grow significantly, doesn't have the same massive jump in effectiveness as going from one singular large ship to a single large ship with an attendant fleet.
To get an invasion we have to roll low on a d100 for someone showing up and then have the resulting d6 be for someone who will care about a bunch of Candles. Not much they could do against say another heavy cruiser. By contrast those shields inherently matter not just if we roll low for daemonology, but even if we roll high since it will keep Chaos in general from knowing we can now bind daemons.
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Ok, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. But I was looking through the maps and found a funny error. There are two Vorthryn's. One we've just explored and the other is in the South-West of Pallor Crossroads Sub-sector.
[x] Plan: Nova cannons go boom. Also muzzle Bongo.
[x] Plan Understanding Bongo
[x] Plan: Nova cannons, muzzle Bongo, research Faith.
[x] Plan: PPE for the nova cannon boom show! Also muzzle Bongo.
[x] Plan Understanding Bongo
[x] Plan: Nova cannons, muzzle Bongo, research Faith.
[x] Plan: PPE for the nova cannon boom show! Also muzzle Bongo.
- Location
- Earth
Inner shield costs a candle
Outer shield costs a candle
Bongo costs 2.6 candles. Or more likely 2 candles and the psy lab.
To have trouble with daemonology we have to roll low on a d100.
Candles matter if we get more than a singular enemy ship, because we can only be in one place and are very slow compared to anyone else. And have more than one place to defend. (Aetherion, Denva Prime, Denva Secundus)
Probably gonna let this discussion continue for a couple hours more before deciding whether to make changes (and how much)
Options:
Only inner shield (-1 candle). Better protection against the summoned daemons.
Both shields (-2 candles). Better protection and we might get away with it unknown? Unlikely imo. We are summoning, aka sending signals into the warp.
Both shields and bongo cage (-4 candles, -psy lab). Bongo completely blind. Max protection.
You think that's an error?
Plenty places that have the same name in RL, this is just verisimilitude.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I am not quite caught up with the thread yet. It's the morning, I am using voice dictation, so this is probably going to be very rough as a post. But I would like to say real quick about the warp lab:
It's not on our ship. We can just blow it up With ship weapons, And unlike Bongo, some random demon isn't actually going to be able to threaten the rest of the system over radio... Not that the rest of the system is anywhere near as vulnerable to that as it was last time.
The part we can't just blow up and would have to fight a demon to the face is on our ship because Bongo is there. Remember, we are getting a two-thirds discount to this research specifically because we have Bongo as a test subject. Not all of the research is happening on the warp lab.
So it is my personal opinion that the current shielding on the warp lab is acceptable.
It's not on our ship. We can just blow it up With ship weapons, And unlike Bongo, some random demon isn't actually going to be able to threaten the rest of the system over radio... Not that the rest of the system is anywhere near as vulnerable to that as it was last time.
The part we can't just blow up and would have to fight a demon to the face is on our ship because Bongo is there. Remember, we are getting a two-thirds discount to this research specifically because we have Bongo as a test subject. Not all of the research is happening on the warp lab.
So it is my personal opinion that the current shielding on the warp lab is acceptable.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
I'm less worried about losing the warp lab or even Bongo. I'm much more worried about either Bongo or some other creatures of the warp might do if they get through the shielding. And it depends entirely on what manages to get through. Even system-wide threats are feasible when we are experimenting with fire like this, which is why I want the very extensive safety-measures we researched actually implemented.