For interim defenses, can we make, like, a whole bunch of disposable, single shot defense stations? Like, take a light defense station, and stuff as many and as large missile on it as possible? Maybe with the the longest range? Or maybe a whole bunch of lances? The kind of thing that will make visiting ships leave, and try and come back later with the appropriate support to clean up the mess, by which time we'll have other stuff figured out?
Not this turn. I want to progress towards warp comms and wrapping up Bongo, and after that, cleaning up the chaos mess is the most important thing. Maybe next turn.
My proposal sets up R&D, deals with Bongo, and cleans up Chaos. Yes, it delays warp comms, but not even that much (it's one fewer tech than Angle's plan, vs getting more RP per turn). It does lack a construction repair action, but it has the Void Miners doing that in the background. I'm open to suggestions.
Generally tech-priests don't need it, they just replace stuff that fails. I suppose they might start augmenting the diplomats over time. Though giving up their biological nature might make them somewhat worse diplomats.
Eh, it's not a problem I'm super-focused on. These people aren't going to rebel or anything, just be disappointed or slightly less effective.
My proposal sets up R&D, deals with Bongo, and cleans up Chaos. Yes, it delays warp comms, but not even that much (it's one fewer tech than Angle's plan, vs getting more RP per turn). It does lack a construction repair action, but it has the Void Miners doing that in the background. I'm open to suggestions.
Maybe if we get a couple cybernetics techs we combo them with the cosmetic surgery tech to get unobstrusive implants...
Well put that last 40 into something else - faith studies or another tech that's closer to finishing. Beyond that though, I really think warp comms should get more focus, and demonology can wait a turn, and streamlined ship design can wait several turns - we should get MS CR and MS CPS for the general improvement in psy shields, and thus greater progress towards warp comms. (Which is based on our psy shield tech.)
For interim defenses, can we make, like, a whole bunch of disposable, single shot defense stations? Like, take a light defense station, and stuff as many and as large missile on it as possible? Maybe with the the longest range? Or maybe a whole bunch of lances? The kind of thing that will make visiting ships leave, and try and come back later with the appropriate support to clean up the mess, by which time we'll have other stuff figured out?
I don't think that any version of that that works is actually cheap. There really aren't weapons like the Honorverse-and-followers seeding orbit with missile pods in 40k. And fixed weapons can't concentrate and can't range between PoIs, so you actually need a lot more investment to avoid defeat in detail. And most of the cost of ships is the hull and weapons, not the ability to maneuver, our rules make defense platforms look bad.
Although...minefields are a thing. We could probably request a research or design for system minefields? That might achieve what you're looking for.
As for tech transfers already done... we gave them everything but warp travel tech when we left the first time so that covers stasis, and we gave them Drugs last turn.
As for focus - I'm talking about research focus as well, to an extent. Taste of chaos is enough that the clear-out of cultists is very likely to succeed in a single Command action. But to do it in a single Diplomacy action where Denva takes on most of the work, and also expect to heal the Two Denvas rift? I expect that to take a lot of support, and it's not for nothing that I pitch SSDIPS -> Denva builds psychic shielded housing for everyone as being something that would help solve it through brute force universally available peace of mind.
The Denva of right now will jump on the ability to build and rebuild housing with free psychic shielding built in like a starving animal. I think we can count on them to play ball here, and with the Faith followup next turn plugged into a boon from, say, abacus manufacturing, we should be able to seal the deal on mitigating the cultural trauma.
Good to know about the stasis I guess, I'll pull that out of the next draft of my plan.
I think I just generally disagree on both your interpretation of the action I'm proposing and on your priorities. We probably could immediately deploy scanners to detect all the currently established cults (As long as we don't have to explicitly build them first anyway) and then deploy bots to squash them with a command action but I think we'll see better results over the long term by helping Denva establish a permanent force dedicated to rooting out chaos both now and going forward. They have the manufacturing capacity and will shortly have the technology to immediately find and land thousands of remote-controlled bots on any actual organized cults, and the understanding of how chaos and it's cultists work to manually root out smaller less organized cults and lone corruptees. We can just give them a hand in setting up an organization which will do that as well as possible and then let them get to it.
I don't think that any version of that that works is actually cheap. There really aren't weapons like the Honorverse-and-followers seeding orbit with missile pods in 40k. And fixed weapons can't concentrate and can't range between PoIs, so you actually need a lot more investment to avoid defeat in detail. And most of the cost of ships is the hull and weapons, not the ability to maneuver, our rules make defense platforms look bad.
Although...minefields are a thing. We could probably request a research or design for system minefields? That might achieve what you're looking for.
I'm trying to avoid more researches... Maybe just finish repairing that shipyard and then make a bunch of candles, flames, and caltrops. We can do all that next turn.
Well put that last 40 into something else - faith studies or another tech that's closer to finishing. Beyond that though, I really think warp comms should get more focus, and demonology can wait a turn, and streamlined ship design can wait several turns - we should get MS CR and MS CPS for the general improvement in psy shields, and thus greater progress towards warp comms. (Which is based on our psy shield tech.)
My thought was that whenever we do Faith we're putting Anexa on it, and it feels weird to put her on a tech with just 20 RP left in it. Also: we need Advanced Materials soon because these Necrons scare me more than Bongo and I want to be finished with them ASAP. Ship Design changed to Taste of Chaos, though—oversight of mine, there.
My proposal sets up R&D, deals with Bongo, and cleans up Chaos. Yes, it delays warp comms, but not even that much (it's one fewer tech than Angle's plan, vs getting more RP per turn). It does lack a construction repair action, but it has the Void Miners doing that in the background. I'm open to suggestions.
I don't think that any version of that that works is actually cheap. There really aren't weapons like the Honorverse-and-followers seeding orbit with missile pods in 40k. And fixed weapons can't concentrate and can't range between PoIs, so you actually need a lot more investment to avoid defeat in detail. And most of the cost of ships is the hull and weapons, not the ability to maneuver, our rules make defense platforms look bad.
Although...minefields are a thing. We could probably request a research or design for system minefields? That might achieve what you're looking for.
There is no reason why we couldn't be the ones to invent the missile spam, we are the AI faction. The only other people who can match us in that regard are the Necrons who would see no reason to because their ships are about as replaceable as those missile pods anyway.
Hmm. Okay, that's actually a little tempting... I'd still leave demonology for another turn though. I'd drop it and the 40 in advanced materials to do Faith studies and MS CR this turn. Still not sure the collab will pay off within the next few turns... But it might? Worth a shot, maybe...?
My thought was that whenever we do Faith we're putting Anexa on it, and it feels weird to put her on a tech with just 20 RP left in it. Also: we need Advanced Materials soon because these Necrons scare me more than Bongo and I want to be finished with them ASAP. Ship Design changed to Taste of Chaos, though—oversight of mine, there.
I'm not actually that set on putting Anexa on Faith? Like, there are so many things we want to put her on, I just don't think that one makes the cut. I want to put her on MS CR, personally. And after that, there will probably be more things - EaR, maybe?
Okay, posting my plan and reasoning before I drive myself to going in circles trying to optimize everything.
The reasoning for the research is to get the issue of Psychic Shielding and Chaos detection sorted for the foreseeable future in one turn. Don't try to mix and match, just get a solid foundation made upon which we can build on top of at a more reasonable pace. Anexa on the Taste of Chaos, because as was pointed out at the start of this update, information is power. Victan and Cia are on Chaos-hunting duty, in their respective fields.
Next turn, when we've ascertained the reliability of the shielding and if we have to build new shielding? We slam the maximum amount of maximum quality shielding on the Warp Lab with our built-up industrial capacity, and take care of Demonology, bind Bongo and throw them behind a more compact prison with smaller amount of shielding. Because with a binding and better shielding we can actually afford it potentially.
Which means that we finally get started on our backlog of semi-permanetly truly securing dangerous-yet-interesting-stuff we've gather so far. And so focus more on other stuff without the distraction of having an unsecured demon trying to burst through our shielding and corrupt Vita with icky Chaos-brainwashing.
I'm including Small-scale psy shields to the plan because it means that all bots we will be making on this turn will have it. Among the other free upgrades, like reliable tripwires. Would also allow us to replace most of our bots on the Spark later on, though that depends on how many are destroyed in the fighting.
And yes, it leaves some capabilties we could be developing against other threats out. But I really think we should start laser-focusing on getting one issue out of the way when we can, instead of meandering through multiple research paths for who knows how many turns. And of the corrupted Forge World is among the other nearby Chaos-threats, this is one capability that we want honed for both Denva and ourselves.
[] Plan: Aegis Against Chaos
-[][FREE] Repair Bay 1000 BP: 0/1215 -> 1000/1215 rebuild Basic Psychic Experimentation Lab (Psychic Shielding 135 HP)
-[] Construction x1 (6940 VBP / 500 LC)
--[] Repair 41 MS Orbital Manufactories (4100 VBP)
--[] The Spark: Basic Psychic Experimentation Lab 1000/1215 -> 1215 (215 VBP, 50 CP)
--[] Psychic Shielding: Outer Hull 221/240 -> 240/240 HP (95 VBP)
--[] Repair the Spark's structure damage (110 VBP) (15/125 -> 125/125 BP of structure damage repaired) 4520/6940 VBP
--[] 3x Specter (300 BP, 60 CP)
--[] 2x Medium Humanized Machine-spirit Infantry Bots (200 BP, 40 CP)
--[] 2x Heavy Machine-spirit humanized Infantry Bots with Machine Spirit Jammers (380 BP, 40 CP)
--[] 3x Light Machine-spirit tanks (450 BP, 15 CP)
--[] 1x Medium Machine-spirit tanks (375 BP, 5 CP)
--[] 2x Caltrop (650 VBP, 20 CP) (Location: Aetherion, Warp Lab) 6875/6940 VBP
--[] 13x Personal Void Shields (5 bp per unit) (65 BP)
-[] Research x2 (545 RP)
--[] The Taste of Chaos (100 RP)
---[] Anexa
--[] Psychic Shielding Reliability (100 RP)
--[] Hardware Psychic Encryption (50 RP)
--[] Machine Spirit Chaos resistance (75 RP)
--[] Machine Spirit-controlled Psychic Shields (50 RP)
--[] Small-scale design-integrated psychic shielding (150 RP)
--[] Intelligence Coding (20 RP) (170/400 -> 190/400 RP) (Overflow)
-[] Orders: Hunt Chaos-cultists
-[][ANEXA] Active Action: Research (The Taste of Chaos)
-[][VICTAN] Write-in: Help with Chaos-cult hunting.
-[][CIA] Write-in: Help with Chaos-cult hunting.
EDIT: Looking at @Nightlord256's suggestion for upgrading Specter with less-than-lethals, putting it here for later use as I update and finalize my plan. Will almost certainly utilize it with the overflow RP taken from Intelligence Coding.
--[] Update Specter design to include Less-Than-Lethal armaments (20 RP)
---[] New cost 125 BP per 1000 bots
10 RP - Light infantry bots (25 BP, 200 CP)
Humanization - (+15 base BP cost for combat bots, +5 base BP for vehicles, small craft & defensive installations)
Machine Spirit Jammers - (+10 base BP)
Machine-spirits - (+0.5x base BP cost, -0.9x base CP cost)
Basic Stealth - (+0.25x base BP cost for vehicles and small craft, +0.5x base BP cost for bots, +1x base RP cost, )
Less-than Lethal armament - (+0.5x base BP cost for vehicles and small craft & bots.) Specter - 20 RP - Light infantry bot (125 BP, 20 CP)
My reading is that we don't need to do any redesigns - but may as well confirm that. @Neablis, will small-scale design-integrated psychic shielding require us to make new designs that have the shields, or will all existing designs just automatically have them?
I think it'll remove the extra BP from the design cost. You'd need to redesign blueprints and it would cost extra RP to do that, but then the BP cost would be free/reduced.
Due to this being brought up to me on discord by Prime, I'm re-evaluating my plan. As the idea was to use those units as mobile scanners, tanks included for their mobility, that is out of the window for now. And as we cannot know the result of the rolls for research yet and so the exact effects and the costs, we cannot use the SSDIP for the Specter redesign either. Probably going to be using anti-personnel bunkers with psychic shielding as static checkpoints.
Sets up the Cogitare to be Denva's premier R&D group, while still making *some* progress towards doing Bongo & warp comms next turn. Probably not a good idea, but I'm willing to give it a shot and see what happens.
I do like the idea of a laser focus to one-and-done something. Only quibbles I have is on construction.
I do not think 2 extra caltrops will help defense at our base. If 2 light lances can't deal with the problem I doubt 2 more would be a tipping point. I'd rather see most of this BP go into the shipyard to start getting ready for ships.
Additionally, we just unlocked new Less-Than-Lethal weapons. The crit added them to the previous op, but if we want to keep using them we have to add them to a design. If you take the 20 RP from intelligence coding you could redesign the Spector to include them.
If you wanted to get a little spicy/silly we could design a MS light tank with void shields and less-than-lethal weapons. Using the cogitare to halve the design would reduce your budget by 4 RP and bring the cost to 15 RP, so we could just afford it. This riot control tank would cost 346 BP at 5 CP per 1,000.
Hmm. Okay, that's actually a little tempting... I'd still leave demonology for another turn though. I'd drop it and the 40 in advanced materials to do Faith studies and MS CR this turn. Still not sure the collab will pay off within the next few turns... But it might? Worth a shot, maybe...?
Personally, I want Demonology done sooner rather than later in order to free up the Oubliette—and also because, even with Encryption, every time something goes wrong this little sh** pops up and messes with us. Also, I want to see what's in the box already.
My thought is we're coming in as detection and reinforcements. Denva has their own forces doing it, too. Does it say anywhere that our bots would be moving out alone against all the cultists, all at once?
I'm surprised there was no reaction to the tech we handled (or i missed it) tough they might understandably be too busy,also did wt destrot the chaos artifcats of the curiosity cabinet once we where done ?
We are, unfortunately, looking at massive amounts of unrest in places where there was Chaos occupation. Also, when it comes to the Spark I would prefer not being caught off guard by assuming that we won't be attacked in the next turn. Random encounters or even less-than-random encounters are a possibility that might cause a void battle. As for building additional spaceships... We also need to repair the shipyard if I've understood correctly. And its costly, especially when taken together with building the ships. It is for the next turn, when we've finished the orbital manufactories.
I do like the idea of a laser focus to one-and-done something. Only quibbles I have is on construction.
I do not think 2 extra caltrops will help defense at our base. If 2 light lances can't deal with the problem I doubt 2 more would be a tipping point. I'd rather see most of this BP go into the shipyard to start getting ready for ships.
Additionally, we just unlocked new Less-Than-Lethal weapons. The crit added them to the previous op, but if we want to keep using them we have to add them to a design. If you take the 20 RP from intelligence coding you could redesign the Spector to include them.
If you wanted to get a little spicy/silly we could design a MS light tank with void shields and less-than-lethal weapons. Using the cogitare to halve the design would reduce your budget by 4 RP and bring the cost to 15 RP, so we could just afford it. This riot control tank would cost 346 BP at 5 CP per 1,000.
For caltrops, they are useful for spreading them out. Space is big, and if I've understood correctly the Orbital Manufactories are spread out. And the Warp Lab is far away on purpose. In fact, I think I could specify that they guard the Warp Lab. Both against anything trying to get to it, as well as to blow the lab up if anything tries to escape containment too successfully.
Included the less-than-lethals for the Spectre to my post, but not yet in the actual plan-draft. Gonna take break from the plan-making, as we still have about 30 hours until the voting starts.
Another argument for emphaty at ramge is as well of taste of chaos it allow people make chaos corruption sensors.
Making establishing any chaotic cult hell.
Genestealers are a different problem but luckily is not a immediate problem and solutions for it will be very early on the genetics tree when we get to it.
Personally, I want Demonology done sooner rather than later in order to free up the Oubliette—and also because, even with Encryption, every time something goes wrong this little sh** pops up and messes with us. Also, I want to see what's in the box already.
I still want other stuff first. Not only because I put a higher priority on it, but also because I think it gives us a better chance of success, and means we'll learn more from Demonology once we actually do it.
Another argument for emphaty at ramge is as well of taste of chaos it allow people make chaos corruption sensors.
Making establishing any chaotic cult hell.
Genestealers are a different problem but luckily is not a immediate problem and solutions for it will be very early on the genetics tree when we get to it.
