Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest

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KyleDaScourge said:
Superconductive Shenanigans is debatable as a priority but I think LS-OMC is much less so. Not having it leaves a crucial gap in the capabilities of the Cogitare and makes the building of ships enormously staggeringly more labor intensive and thus logistically intensive. Lower Spec/Gamified OMC and Collab R&D are all also important but I think LS-OMC slides into the gap of addressing a crucial capability gap and also being fairly cheap, which means it makes it into my current plan. And on the subject of OMC-Techs, I'd also say Interchangeable OMC is extremely important and Streamlined is a close runner up. My current thinking though, is that LS-OMC, Collab R&D, Lower Spec, and then Companion Cogitators in roughly that order will fully fill out the must-haves on the OMC/Cybernetics tree and leave the Cogitare and Stellar Ascendancy both in an amazing position for further research, with everything else in the tree being software issues that they can solve on their own.

We know Denva has ground and void BP to go around but do they have any ship construction slots to speak of? I'm pretty sure the large shipyard at Aetherion was their main one, which we now own and still need to repair. I don't think the nest had any? And any in ordit over Denva itself would have been early casualties of the fighting. I sort of expect our shipyard to be the only one left in the system, unless Denva has already built a new one, and everyone they had with experience running one to have been killed. Which makes now an awfully good time to prioritize LS-OMC.

I'm unsold on a spy satellite inherently making for a better warp sensor platform, warp sensors have nothing to do with conventional ones, and we don't yet have a blueprint or modification option specifically for them. Lacking that, I'd expect larger shields to provide better sensory data, especially with Empathy at Range, which my plan has.
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With Lower Specs, Denva would easily have enough people to operate these shipyards. And with Collab R&D (assuming no more invaders come at them), they can get LS-OMC on their own. Heck, they might be able to get it while we're still here, if we get Collab R&D early.
meianmaru said:
I had this idea before, but then I took a look at what even an upgraded warp sensitivity in our psy shielding looks like.

So if we want a satellite design that picks anything useful from the ground with its warp shielding/sensors, we want EaR (heh, puns). In fact, with the new revelations about the SSDIPS applying only to new blueprints, not existing designs, I've been strongly considering adding it to my plan. Maybe even doing a 3x Research action to get it, dropping an Order action to make room, and then just spamming the existing design for psy shielded bunkers as those will be static defenses that won't require Order actions to move.

Because with extended range and enough bunkers, we could get a triangulation-effect going. Then throw in a psy shielded bot like the upgraded Specter specs you made with less-than-lethals, and just throw them at Aevon en masse for them to use. If that is not enough to completely solve the issue, we can do an Order action on the next turn. But the new anti-Chaos techs and the materials should help at least in stabilizing the issue somewhat meanwhile.
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EaR might be applicable to designs after they're made; additionally, we don't know that satelites in orbit can't scan the surface without EaR. After all, I don't think we needed to land to scan that webway gate. EaR seems to be more to detect stuff in the next system over. Which is not urgent.
F0lkL0re said:
And Empathy at Range might allow for any warp detection satellites to act as a early warning system for incoming ships.
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True! Which would be very nice to have, but I favour increasing our (and Denva's) RP/turn first.
henkalv said:
Just binged the quest last night/today, thank you for writing it Neablis.

Not sure about what plans to go for, and by the discourse it seems like what research to go for have been contested for a while.

Something that seems useful to me, but which I haven't seen any talk about is doing an action to try for a naval officer hero. Vita is explicitly not made for space combat and Cia is more focused on personal combat so it isn't really covered by our current heroes. I think we need it as we are essentially playing a wandering ship/fleet. More naval engagements seem inevitable. Having a commander and some support staff seem especially useful if we make some escort vessels that we bring with us at some point, but we should get one now and start leveling them up.

So I hope we pick up a small officer core while we are in Devna.
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Part of the issue is Denva doesn't have an officer cadre. We'd need to establish an academy to train them up... and, as Neablis has stated, Vita's lack of experience would likely mean multiple turns. Best options, as far as I see it, for getting a commander at Denva are either Navibean can be a commander, or we pick up a psyker who can do it.
 
armentho said:
Thats why i find so important to finish the "101" before leaving

Giving them a strong foundation ensures long term safe research

Last thing we want is for them to open a warp rift trying to make ways to curb chaos
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A warp rift, sure, that is bad. On the other hand a experimental warp gate is part of the blueprint for the Warp Laboratory. It really does depend on how careful paranoid you are with protections. The inquisition for instance is at once too paranoid, because that is just the nature of the IoM and not paranoid enough because a lot of them have a god complex from that Rosette.
 
Haganeko said:
With Lower Specs, Denva would easily have enough people to operate these shipyards. And with Collab R&D (assuming no more invaders come at them), they can get LS-OMC on their own. Heck, they might be able to get it while we're still here, if we get Collab R&D early.
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Lower Specs has no bearing whatsoever on their ability to operate shipyards unless they also have LS-OMC. It's either manually operated shipyards run by thousands if not tens or hundreds of thousands of laborers or LS-OMC operated shipyards run by 3 - 12 (for a small shipyard) to 13 - 29 (for a large shipyard) OMC Operators. Lower Specs would let them implant more people with implants that are easier to make and presumably learn how to use, but only give 1 or 2 CP worth of control. So it would let them train more people and let you run a large shipyard with around 250 people, which is still vastly better than tens of thousands for a manual one, but you need LS-OMC to have them operate a shipyard period.
 
henkalv said:
Just binged the quest last night/today, thank you for writing it Neablis.
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Welcome to the mad house!

henkalv said:
Something that seems useful to me, but which I haven't seen any talk about is doing an action to try for a naval officer hero. Vita is explicitly not made for space combat and Cia is more focused on personal combat so it isn't really covered by our current heroes. I think we need it as we are essentially playing a wandering ship/fleet. More naval engagements seem inevitable. Having a commander and some support staff seem especially useful if we make some escort vessels that we bring with us at some point, but we should get one now and start leveling them up.
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That's a great idea, let's see if we can get an option the next time we get boons.
 
Okay. New version of my plan. Because how SSDIPS integrates psychic shields to blueprints of only new units with the optio included (exact details depending on the dice), I moved onto an other approach. 3x Research and 1x Construction turn. Just eat the cost for designing and making expensive bots that we will probably never make again after immediately making a better design on the next turn, or soon after.

But it is something that is guaranteed that we can get, here and now, without having to trust dice rolls. And we can eat the costs. The other RP spending sink would be helping Denva design housing and other facilities with SSDIPS integrated into it. With all the other research I'm aiming towards, and with Aevon's/Denva's own industrial capacity? It should stabilize the situation nicely.

And hey, the Aegis bot design is even narratively a nice way for Vita to experiment with her psychic shielding. An experimental bot design put to use, while she immediately moves into a paradigm shift that makes the bot she just made obsolete due to its inefficient-and-costly-to-make design.

On top of this all, spending 3x Research actions lets us complete Faith is my shield? and make good progress towards finally finishing Intelligent design. Faith is something that we frankly should at least take a look at, if there is anything useful in this situation. Also could turn out to be important in figuring out how exactly the Chaos side of the faith works, so that we can potentially study it for any weakness. And just more knowledge about how exactly the Warp works.

While all of this is going on, also making a refit for the Spark with more Juvenat. With 150 persons worth of it, we have more than enough for the Crew, the diplomats/spies/etc. from Victan's staff, and any tech-priests who feel like taking a bit easier and slower with their personal augmentations. However, if we are taking psyker staff later on, I strongly suggest we research towards improving juvenat efficiency. The psykers will obviously benefit more than even Victan's staff from not having to augment themselves with cybernetics, but I don't want to make the Spark just a bloated Juvenat-factory.

Oh, a side note: if you notice us missing 1 RP in my plan, its because I rounded it down due 1 point of floating RP driving me to madness. Some five Cogitare tech-priests out of the hundred are deep in researching self-augmentation or something like that. Or just have discovered the great resurgence of neo-classical anime of the year 3920 and the decades that followed, and are binge-watching mecha shows.

[] Plan: Aegis Against Chaos
-[][FREE] Repair Bay 1000 BP: 0/1215 -> 1000/1215 rebuild Basic Psychic Experimentation Lab (Psychic Shielding 135 HP)
-[] Construction x1 (6940 VBP / 500 LC)
--[] Repair 41 MS Orbital Manufactories (4100 VBP)
--[] The Spark: Basic Psychic Experimentation Lab 1000/1215 -> 1215 (215 VBP, 50 CP)
--[] Psychic Shielding: Outer Hull 221/240 -> 240/240 HP (95 VBP)
--[] Repair the Spark's structure damage (110 VBP) (15/125 -> 125/125 BP of structure damage repaired)
4520/6940 VBP
2420 VPB left
--[] The Spark Refit: 5 MS manufactories -> 2x Basic Juvenat Production Facility (750 BP, 100 CP)
--[] 3x Aegis Medium Infantry Bots (1150 BP, 60 CP) (donated to Aevon)
--[] 2x Specter (200 BP, 60 CP) (donated to Aevon)
--[] 420 BP Victan budget
-[] Research x3 (745 RP -> 740 RP (20 Cogitare in Blueprint Design))
--[] The Taste of Chaos (100 RP)
---[] Anexa
--[] Psychic Shielding Reliability (100 RP)
--[] Hardware Psychic Encryption (50 RP)
--[] Machine Spirit Chaos resistance (75 RP)
--[] Machine Spirit-controlled Psychic Shields (50 RP)
--[] Small-scale design-integrated psychic shielding (150 RP)
--[] Research Assistance: Denva housing SSDIPS (190 RP reserved, expected range 10-100 RP)
--[] Faith is my shield? (15/75 RP) (1st Overflow)
--[] Intelligence Coding (170/400 RP) (2nd Overflow)
--[] Blueprint: Aegis Medium Infantry Bot (350 BP, 20 CP) 50 -> 25 RP (20 Cogitare discount)
-[][ANEXA] Active Action: Research (The Taste of Chaos)
-[][VICTAN] Passive action: Counterespionage & Alliance-building
-[][CIA] Write-in: Help Denva/Aevon with Chaos-cult hunting.

Blueprint: Aegis Medium Infantry Bot
25 RP - Medium Infantry Bots (50 BP, 200 CP)
Machine-spirits - (+0.5x base BP cost, -0.9x base CP cost)
Psychic Shielding - (+4x base BP cost for tanks, small craft, +9x base BP cost for bots, +1x base BP cost for defensive installations +1x base RP to design blueprint)
Less-than Lethal armament - (+0.5x base BP cost for vehicles and small craft & bots.)

50 RP - Aegis Medium Infantry Bots (350 BP, 20 CP)
 
KyleDaScourge said:
Lower Specs has no bearing whatsoever on their ability to operate shipyards unless they also have LS-OMC. It's either manually operated shipyards run by thousands if not tens or hundreds of thousands of laborers or LS-OMC operated shipyards run by 3 - 12 (for a small shipyard) to 13 - 29 (for a large shipyard) OMC Operators. Lower Specs would let them implant more people with implants that are easier to make and presumably learn how to use, but only give 1 or 2 CP worth of control. So it would let them train more people and let you run a large shipyard with around 250 people, which is still vastly better than tens of thousands for a manual one, but you need LS-OMC to have them operate a shipyard period.
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It frees people from operating manned manufactories. I'd like a quote on how you got those estimates. By all accounts, the population of Aerithon wasn't large enough for hundreds of thousands of people to have been operating that shipyard.

Even accepting those figures, it's not something that would have a very different impact done now or in five years. Denva is still rebuilding on the ground; it will take them a couple of turns before they are ready to make a bunch of shipyards, much less use them. Even then, before we get lower specs I suspect they're more gated on number of operators than on number of uses for them.
 
meianmaru said:
Okay. New version of my plan. Because how SSDIPS integrates psychic shields to blueprints of only new units with the optio included (exact details depending on the dice), I moved onto an other approach. 3x Research and 1x Construction turn. Just eat the cost for designing and making expensive bots that we will probably never make again after immediately making a better design on the next turn, or soon after.

But it is something that is guaranteed that we can get, here and now, without having to trust dice rolls. And we can eat the costs. The other RP spending sink would be helping Denva design housing and other facilities with SSDIPS integrated into it. With all the other research I'm aiming towards, and with Aevon's/Denva's own industrial capacity? It should stabilize the situation nicely.

And hey, the Aegis bot design is even narratively a nice way for Vita to experiment with her psychic shielding. An experimental bot design put to use, while she immediately moves into a paradigm shift that makes the bot she just made obsolete due to its inefficient-and-costly-to-make design.

On top of this all, spending 3x Research actions lets us complete Faith is my shield? and make good progress towards finally finishing Intelligent design. Faith is something that we frankly should at least take a look at, if there is anything useful in this situation. Also could turn out to be important in figuring out how exactly the Chaos side of the faith works, so that we can potentially study it for any weakness. And just more knowledge about how exactly the Warp works.

While all of this is going on, also making a refit for the Spark with more Juvenat. With 150 persons worth of it, we have more than enough for the Crew, the diplomats/spies/etc. from Victan's staff, and any tech-priests who feel like taking a bit easier and slower with their personal augmentations. However, if we are taking psyker staff later on, I strongly suggest we research towards improving juvenat efficiency. The psykers will obviously benefit more than even Victan's staff from not having to augment themselves with cybernetics, but I don't want to make the Spark just a bloated Juvenat-factory.

Oh, a side note: if you notice us missing 1 RP in my plan, its because I rounded it down due 1 point of floating RP driving me to madness. Some five Cogitare tech-priests out of the hundred are deep in researching self-augmentation or something like that. Or just have discovered the great resurgence of neo-classical anime of the year 3920 and the decades that followed, and are binge-watching mecha shows.

[] Plan: Aegis Against Chaos
-[][FREE] Repair Bay 1000 BP: 0/1215 -> 1000/1215 rebuild Basic Psychic Experimentation Lab (Psychic Shielding 135 HP)
-[] Construction x1 (6940 VBP / 500 LC)
--[] Repair 41 MS Orbital Manufactories (4100 VBP)
--[] The Spark: Basic Psychic Experimentation Lab 1000/1215 -> 1215 (215 VBP, 50 CP)
--[] Psychic Shielding: Outer Hull 221/240 -> 240/240 HP (95 VBP)
--[] Repair the Spark's structure damage (110 VBP) (15/125 -> 125/125 BP of structure damage repaired)
4520/6940 VBP
2420 VPB left
--[] The Spark Refit: 5 MS manufactories -> 2x Basic Juvenat Production Facility (750 BP, 100 CP)
--[] 3x Aegis Medium Infantry Bots (1150 BP, 60 CP) (donated to Aevon)
--[] 2x Specter (200 BP, 60 CP) (donated to Aevon)
--[] 420 BP Victan budget
-[] Research x3 (745 RP -> 740 RP (20 Cogitare in Blueprint Design))
--[] The Taste of Chaos (100 RP)
---[] Anexa
--[] Psychic Shielding Reliability (100 RP)
--[] Hardware Psychic Encryption (50 RP)
--[] Machine Spirit Chaos resistance (75 RP)
--[] Machine Spirit-controlled Psychic Shields (50 RP)
--[] Small-scale design-integrated psychic shielding (150 RP)
--[] Research Assistance: Denva housing SSDIPS (190 RP reserved, expected range 10-100 RP)
--[] Faith is my shield? (15/75 RP) (1st Overflow)
--[] Intelligence Coding (170/400 RP) (2nd Overflow)
--[] Blueprint: Aegis Medium Infantry Bot (350 BP, 20 CP) 50 -> 25 RP (20 Cogitare discount)
-[][ANEXA] Active Action: Research (The Taste of Chaos)
-[][VICTAN] Passive action: Counterespionage & Alliance-building
-[][CIA] Write-in: Help Denva/Aevon with Chaos-cult hunting.

Blueprint: Aegis Medium Infantry Bot
25 RP - Medium Infantry Bots (50 BP, 200 CP)
Machine-spirits - (+0.5x base BP cost, -0.9x base CP cost)
Psychic Shielding - (+4x base BP cost for tanks, small craft, +9x base BP cost for bots, +1x base BP cost for defensive installations +1x base RP to design blueprint)
Less-than Lethal armament - (+0.5x base BP cost for vehicles and small craft & bots.)

50 RP - Aegis Medium Infantry Bots (350 BP, 20 CP)
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I honestly think this is rushed. We took these staff for Victan without considering the needs they represent; doubling down now is a bad move. We can either open space by getting done with Bongo or researching better packing, make them their own ship later, or cut our losses, admit taking on that much crew was ill-advised, and keep a smaller cadre to at least have something to show for it.
 
Haganeko said:
It frees people from operating manned manufactories. I'd like a quote on how you got those estimates. By all accounts, the population of Aerithon wasn't large enough for hundreds of thousands of people to have been operating that shipyard.

Even accepting those figures, it's not something that would have a very different impact done now or in five years. Denva is still rebuilding on the ground; it will take them a couple of turns before they are ready to make a bunch of shipyards, much less use them. Even then, before we get lower specs I suspect they're more gated on number of operators than on number of uses for them.
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The numbers for OMC Shipyards are just dividing OMC CP Capacity (Around 20 at the moment) by the CP requirement of the shipyard.

The numbers for a manual shipyard are rough estimates based on a combination of modern nautical shipyards (seem to average several thousand people minimum) and the usual size and crew requirement of ships in 40k (very big and tens of thousands even for destroyers).

Edit for clarification - The most solid numbers on 40k crew sizes I can find put a Cobra-class destroyer at ~15,000 and a Mars-class battlecruiser at ~107,000, which doesn't seem too unbelievable given the size of those ships in comparison to modern naval vessels and the way that ships in the fluff are often depicted as more-or-less flying cities for their crew.
 
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Adjusted my plan.

Now mostly follows meianmaru's research, except I am doing only 2 actions so less of it. But I am doing the import stuff.
The Taste of Chaos to have an easier time finding cultists
Small-scale design-integrated psychic shielding, Hardware Psychic Encryption, Psychic Shielding Reliability (100 RP), Machine Spirit Chaos resistance (75 RP), Machine Spirit-controlled Psychic Shields (50 RP) to have Psychic Shields everywhere.

I am designing a bot type specifically for finding and subduing cultists, the Seeker.
Blueprint: Seeker Light Infantry Bot
10 RP - Light infantry bots (25 BP, 200 CP)
Humanization - (+15 base BP cost for combat bots)
Machine-spirits - (+0.5x base BP cost, -0.9x base CP cost)
Psychic Shielding - (+9x base BP cost for bots, +1x base RP to design blueprint)
Less-than Lethal armament - (+0.5x base BP cost for vehicles and small craft & bots.)


Exact costs of it will depend on research roll for the integrated shields, but even with no improvements we are still capable of building 5700 of them.
Should the shield costs fall to factually 0, we could build 31500 of them, but that'd need a good roll.

[] Plan: Find and get rid of the chaos cults v2
-[][Repair Bay]: spent in Construction
-[] Construction (600 VBP + 5340 Aetherion MS manus + 1,100 VBP (Voidforge Miners) = 7040 / 1000 Repair Bay / 500 Lift Capacity):
--[] Repair the Spark's structure damage (110 VBP) (15/125 -> 125/125 BP of structure damage repaired)
--[] Psychic Shielding: Outer Hull 221/240 -> 240/240 HP (95 VBP)
--[] The Spark: Basic Psychic Experimentation Lab 1000/1215 -> 1215 (215 VBP, 50 CP)
--[] Fix up 41 Orbital Manufactories to MS-manufactories (4100 BP)
--[] 4520/7040 BP
--[] Build 2520 BP worth of Blueprint Seeker bots. [Between 5700 and 31500 bots depending on SSDIPS-research, cap at 10k bots]
--[] Direct Overflow (due to capping bot production) to Aetherion Shipyard repair
-[] Research x2 (400 + 85 (Anexa) + 56 (Anexa staff, 20 Cogitare assigned to BP) = 545 RP)
--[] The Taste of Chaos (100 RP)
---[] Anexa assist
--[] Small-scale design-integrated psychic shielding (150 RP)
--[] Hardware Psychic Encryption (50 RP)
--[] Psychic Shielding Reliability (100 RP)
--[] Machine Spirit Chaos resistance (75 RP)
--[] Machine Spirit-controlled Psychic Shields (50 RP)
--[] Blueprint: Seeker Light Infantry Bot [20 RP, 80-440 BP, 20 CP] (10 RP, reduced due to 20 assigned Cogitare, may use an additional 6RP from Overflow if design costs increase)
---[] 10 RP - Light infantry bots (25 BP, 200 CP)
---[] Humanization - (+15 base BP cost for combat bots)
---[] Machine-spirits - (+0.5x base BP cost, -0.9x base CP cost)
---[] Psychic Shielding - (+9x base BP cost for bots, +1x base RP to design blueprint)
---[] Less-than Lethal armament - (+0.5x base BP cost for vehicles and small craft & bots.)
--[] Intelligence Coding (6 Overflow)
-[] Orders: Help cleanse the planet of hidden chaos cults
-[] Anexa active Action: Research
-[] Victan passive action: Assist with chaos cult clean up
-[] Cia: Deployment on chaos cult clean up
 
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Haganeko said:
Part of the issue is Denva doesn't have an officer cadre. We'd need to establish an academy to train them up... and, as Neablis has stated, Vita's lack of experience would likely mean multiple turns. Best options, as far as I see it, for getting a commander at Denva are either Navibean can be a commander, or we pick up a psyker who can do it.
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That's a good point, though how long ago did Neablis weigh in on it? I remember a mention of officers being trained when we handed the destroyers over to Denva, and while the institution that trained those might have been basic and not exists anymore I'm sure Denva is more motivated than ever to get a naval academy up and running now, so we might not have to do a lot to get it going. Furthermore during the travels we did figure out "Human Virtual OMC simulations" which if I understand it correctly is a hyper realistic virtual reality simulation.

So what I suggest we do is that we research a variant of "-[] Gameified OMC (75 RP)" only directed towards naval conflicts instead (Battlefleet Gothic Armada Vita edition), and then also "-[] Lower OMC Implant Specs (150 RP)" to get mass adoption of OMC's going on Denva. That might get us a good pool of candidates by itself in some decades, though would be funny to have manning the spark of the ancients be the prize of a winning a e-sport tournament.

And besides getting us our officers it also makes them a much harder nut to crack.

Though now that I'm wading into the research prioritzation war I imagine my suggestion might turn unpopular. And to be clear I'm not suggesting we do this now, but rather during one of the next turns.
 
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LightLan said:
Adjusted my plan.

Now mostly follows meianmaru's research, except I am doing only 2 actions so less of it. But I am doing the import stuff.
The Taste of Chaos to have an easier time finding cultists
Small-scale design-integrated psychic shielding, Hardware Psychic Encryption, Psychic Shielding Reliability (100 RP), Machine Spirit Chaos resistance (75 RP), Machine Spirit-controlled Psychic Shields (50 RP) to have Psychic Shields everywhere.

I am designing a bot type specifically for finding and subduing cultists, the Seeker.
Blueprint: Seeker Light Infantry Bot
10 RP - Light infantry bots (25 BP, 200 CP)
Humanization - (+15 base BP cost for combat bots)
Machine-spirits - (+0.5x base BP cost, -0.9x base CP cost)
Psychic Shielding - (+9x base BP cost for bots, +1x base RP to design blueprint)
Less-than Lethal armament - (+0.5x base BP cost for vehicles and small craft & bots.)


Exact costs of it will depend on research roll for the integrated shields, but even with no improvements we are still capable of building 5700 of them.
Should the shield costs fall to factually 0, we could build 31500 of them, but that'd need a good roll.

[] Plan: Find and get rid of the chaos cults v2
-[][Repair Bay]: spent in Construction
-[] Construction (600 VBP + 5340 Aetherion MS manus + 1,100 VBP (Voidforge Miners) = 7040 / 1000 Repair Bay / 500 Lift Capacity):
--[] Repair the Spark's structure damage (110 VBP) (15/125 -> 125/125 BP of structure damage repaired)
--[] Psychic Shielding: Outer Hull 221/240 -> 240/240 HP (95 VBP)
--[] The Spark: Basic Psychic Experimentation Lab 1000/1215 -> 1215 (215 VBP, 50 CP)
--[] Fix up 41 Orbital Manufactories to MS-manufactories (4100 BP)
--[] 4520/7040 BP
--[] Build 2520 BP worth of Blueprint Seeker bots. [Between 5700 and 31500 bots depending on SSDIPS-research]
-[] Research x2 (400 + 85 (Anexa) + 56 (Anexa staff, 20 Cogitare assigned to BP) = 545 RP)
--[] The Taste of Chaos (100 RP)
---[] Anexa assist
--[] Small-scale design-integrated psychic shielding (150 RP)
--[] Hardware Psychic Encryption (50 RP)
--[] Psychic Shielding Reliability (100 RP)
--[] Machine Spirit Chaos resistance (75 RP)
--[] Machine Spirit-controlled Psychic Shields (50 RP)
--[] Blueprint: Seeker Light Infantry Bot [20 RP, 80-440 BP, 20 CP] (10 RP, reduced due to 20 assigned Cogitare)
---[] 10 RP - Light infantry bots (25 BP, 200 CP)
---[] Humanization - (+15 base BP cost for combat bots)
---[] Machine-spirits - (+0.5x base BP cost, -0.9x base CP cost)
---[] Psychic Shielding - (+9x base BP cost for bots, +1x base RP to design blueprint)
---[] Less-than Lethal armament - (+0.5x base BP cost for vehicles and small craft & bots.)
--[] Intelligence Coding (6 Overflow)
-[] Orders: Help cleanse the planet of hidden chaos cults
-[] Anexa active Action: Research
-[] Victan passive action: Assist with chaos cult clean up
-[] Cia: Deployment on chaos cult clean up
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Could I perhaps convince you to make those medium bots? Chaos cultists tend to be tougher than baseline humans—especially the ones we most want to be rid of. And, once more, that is way more bots than we are capable of carrying, on the high end. Consider choosing a max number of bots and diverting overflow to the shipyard or some such.

Oh, and noting the value of the Cogitare's blueprint contribution would probably make it easier to check for the QM.
 
Haganeko said:
Could I perhaps convince you to make those medium bots? Chaos cultists tend to be tougher than baseline humans—especially the ones we most want to be rid of. And, once more, that is way more bots than we are capable of carrying, on the high end. Consider choosing a max number of bots and diverting overflow to the shipyard or some such.

Oh, and noting the value of the Cogitare's blueprint contribution would probably make it easier to check for the QM.
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Medium bots cost more RP to design (25 vs 10), I literally lack 9 RP to do that.

Also I noted down their contribution. In two spots even?

Will consider placing a maximum on the bots. Probably 10kish or so.
We will have some combat losses anyway, so that should do.
 
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armentho said:
nice,seems fitting,chaos as a disease that spreads murderous madness
if someone is infected is too late and they have to be killed

and all things considered,the story is rather tame as things go

>grandpa caring his family untill they devolve into nurglite cultists
>a mother kills her kids induced by khorne
>a brilliant lad slippery slopes into a freedom fighter against the brutal robot occupation,eventually devolving into a tzeench cultist
>a soldier has to pull the trigger on a bunch of teens and kids deemed ''compromised'' by chaos
>slaneshi gangster kidnapping a family and breaking them down into hedonist addicts

i think the biggest thing about writting truly tragic stuff is that is has to feel tiring,bitter and anti-climatic
it has to feel like a waste
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This is a story more about the dread of chaos rather than the terror of it, the fact that you just don't know what's going on. So it takes the jaws approach a bit, you don't see the shark that much. Even if almost no one is a cultist, anyone could be a cultist.
 
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henkalv said:
That's a good point, though how long ago did Neablis weigh in on it? I remember a mention of officers being trained when we handed the destroyers over to Denva, and while the institution that trained those might have been basic and not exists anymore I'm sure Denva is more motivated than ever to get a naval academy up and running now, so we might not have to do a lot to get it going. Furthermore during the travels we did figure out "Human Virtual OMC simulations" which if I understand it correctly is a hyper realistic virtual reality simulation.

So what I suggest we do is that we research a variant of "-[] Gameified OMC (75 RP)" (Battlefleet Gothic Armada Vita edition) only directed towards naval conflicts instead, and then also "-[] Lower OMC Implant Specs (150 RP)" to get mass adoption of OMC's going on Denva. That might get us a good pool of candidates by itself in some decades, though would be funny to have manning the spark of the ancients be the prize of a winning a e-sport tournament.

And besides getting us our officers it also makes them a much harder nut to crack.

Though now that I'm wading into the research prioritzation war I imagine my suggestion might turn unpopular. And to be clear I'm not suggesting we do this now, but rather during one of the next turns.
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Those are very much in my view. My thought is we get Denva R&D going this round with the colab tech, then get ease of omc next turn along with a few other useful techs. I'm just waiting for word on whether chaos-detection satelites are viable without EaR to finalise my plan.
 
LightLan said:
Medium bots cost more RP to design (25 vs 10), I literally lack 9 RP to do that.

Also I noted down their contribution. In two spots even?
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I think light bots are fine, they're going to be shooting the cultists with tranq-guns (or lasguns if those don't work) not wrestling with them.

And your plan is currently my second choice behind my own, so if Nightlord is unavailable, I'd be fine with posting it when voting opens.
 
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random_npc said:
This is a story more about the dread of chaos rather than the terror of it, the fact that you just don't know what's going on. So it takes the jaws approach a bit, you don't see the shark that much. Even if almost no one is a cultist, anyone could be a cultist.
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Most terror and horror movies avoid showing the monster too much—both on the principle of Nothing is Scarier and on the fact that cgi/practical effects are expensive.

That story does psychological horror quite well.
 
KyleDaScourge said:
I think medium bots are fine, they're going to be shooting the cultists with tranq-guns (or lasguns if those don't work) not wrestling with them.

And your plan is currently my second choice behind my own, so if Nightlord is unavailable, I'd be fine with posting it when voting opens.
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LightLan has light bots, not medium ones. Your point stands, but be mindful of that detail.
 
Haganeko said:
I honestly think this is rushed. We took these staff for Victan without considering the needs they represent; doubling down now is a bad move. We can either open space by getting done with Bongo or researching better packing, make them their own ship later, or cut our losses, admit taking on that much crew was ill-advised, and keep a smaller cadre to at least have something to show for it.
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If you are talking about replacing half of the manufactories on the Spark for the juvenat, like you said there are solution in the long-term. But this is also not much a problem even in the short-term, considering the amount of manufacturing we are sitting on.
Nightlord256 said:
I'm against any 3 research plan right now, we have too much to get done in the world.

Additionally, the request from Denva in the boon description is for an Order action plus Taste of Chaos. So in my mind that should be core for any plan that deals with the cults this turn.


Right now this is my front runner.
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This, however, is a much more valid concern. I think I might have gone slightly excessive on research once again. And the more I look at it, the more I too like LL's current plan. I'm willing to drop my own plan in the favor of it, but have one suggestion and change for it.

@LightLan how do you feel about retrofitting the Spark with more juvenat production? We are set to almost certainly to make warp-capable dedicated manufacturing ships before we leave. And I really think that preserving Victan's staff at optimal conditions would be worth it, with our production efficiency of the juvenat also being upgradable later on with the right research.

I will probably still probably vote your plan even without this change LL, but if its left out, will be pushing it on the following turn pretty damn hard before it is too late.

EDIT: also, just noticed this part:
LightLan said:
Exact costs of it will depend on research roll for the integrated shields, but even with no improvements we are still capable of building 5700 of them.
Should the shield costs fall to factually 0, we could build 31500 of them, but that'd need a good roll.
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The mistaken assumption with this is, that IIRC, while the BP cost can be lowered with the SSDIPS... It actually can raise the design cost in RP. So unless we roll exceptionally well, it most likely won't apply. Still a good plan and I will probably be voting for it, but I suggest tempering expectations on any discounts for BP right now. It will be a very lucky bonus if it happens, but very unlikely.
 
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