Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest

[AltF4152]

---[X] Drop 3x Manufactories, Captive Holding Cells. Build The Oubliette (Or, the Bongo Containment Zone), 4 Slots, Up to 8,100 BP for 540/540 HP. Move the Scrapcode Generator there after Further Scrapcode Research is complete.

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Why are you dropping manufactories to the point that we need multiple actions to build a ground manufactory? Alectai's plan did that, but they also had a research to increase the BP generated by the ship's manufactory, although looking at it now it would still have been less than enough to build a manufactory unless we had at least a Good Success, then it was changed to another research with the same cost which would double the BP from our ships, then i have no idea what happened, i was sleeping.

If you drop a shuttle and 200 BP from the repair bay, you free the same space than by removing 3 manufactories, and we can build 200 BP fast enough that those 200 usable only for repair won't have a noticeable effect in most cases.

 

[Haganeko]

Why are you dropping manufactories to the point that we need multiple actions to build a ground manufactory? Alectai's plan did that, but they also had a research to increase the BP generated by the ship's manufactory, although looking at it now it would still have been less than enough to build a manufactory unless we had at least a Good Success, then it was changed to another research with the same cost which would double the BP from our ships, then i have no idea what happened, i was sleeping.

If you drop a shuttle and 200 BP from the repair bay, you free the same space than by removing 3 manufactories, and we can build 200 BP fast enough that those 200 usable only for repair won't have a noticeable effect in most cases.

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Also, I think the main reason is that we don't really plan to build much during this trip, and when we come back we'll have the option to get some bp from denva. Additionally, we can do that research on the move/then.

 

[Prime 2.0]

[X] Plan: You can't take the sky from me!
[X] Yes

Why are you dropping manufactories to the point that we need multiple actions to build a ground manufactory? Alectai's plan did that, but they also had a research to increase the BP generated by the ship's manufactory, although looking at it now it would still have been less than enough to build a manufactory unless we had at least a Good Success, then it was changed to another research with the same cost which would double the BP from our ships, then i have no idea what happened, i was sleeping.

If you drop a shuttle and 200 BP from the repair bay, you free the same space than by removing 3 manufactories, and we can build 200 BP fast enough that those 200 usable only for repair won't have a noticeable effect in most cases.

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Couple of points:

• Alectai himself made the change.
• We will still have 350 BP/action, compared to our previous 500. Ground manufactories cost 100, so we can still make 3 in one action, or 7 in two.
• Manufactory efficiency research is generally best done while on the go, as just using the action to crash build more manufactories instead usually beats it in BP output gained.

 

[LightLan]

Manufactory efficiency research is generally best done while on the go, as just using the action to crash build more manufactories instead usually beats it in BP output gained.

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Indeed. Large-scale Void Manufactoring alone doubles our on-the-go manufactoring ability and only costs 100RP or ~0.5 research AP.

-[] Large-scale Void Manufacturing (100 RP) Unlike ground factories, which have to deal with gravity and atmosphere, there's little stopping you from just... scaling up the principles of void manufacturing. Besides the annoying spaghetti of logistics, but that's a solvable problem. (Allows you to design large void manufactories that are more efficient, improves the manufactories on your ships to be 1/5 instead of 1/10 production. Potential for other void-based platform technologies).

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[X] Plan: You can't take the sky from me!
[X] Yes

 

[Alectai]

[X] Plan: You can't take the sky from me!

 

[TheCrownedVassal]

[X] Plan: You can't take the sky from me!

 

[meianmaru]

Indeed. Large-scale Void Manufactoring alone doubles our on-the-go manufactoring ability and only costs 100RP or ~0.5 research AP.

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People have made this same mistake before. It doesn't apply to our flagship's manufactories, as the current ones work with the rules of ground manufactories as they are the better ones as a baseline. This has been confirmed by Neablis before. Luckily, we do have research projects that will increase that too, even if not as massively.

It would still be useful for manufactory ships that are not our flagship.

 

[Glau]

[x] Plan: Foundation for Further Uplift (Without Bongo)
-[x] Research x2 (400 + 60 Anexa RP)
--[x] Large Scale Machine Spirits (40 RP + 60 Anexa RP)
--[x] Industrial Organic-Machine Control (150 RP)
--[x] Efficient Psychic Shielding (100 RP)
--[x] Further Scrapcode Research (100 RP)
---[x] Free Action: Eliminate Bongo once we finish researching him.
--[x] Okay, maybe there's a point to medical school (+10, 30/50 RP)
-[x] Construction (8,350 BP)
--[x] Auto-repair damaged Shields (Budget of 1,000 VBP to handle shield repairs)
--[x] Refit manufactories with machine spirits, prioritizing planet side ones.
--[x] Refit Installations with machine spirits, prioritizing planet side ones.
--[x] Anything remaining can be spent on Denva as uplift assistance.
-[x] Explore: Ascalon
--[x][FREE] They can have it (+1 Boon, we're getting OMC Manufacturing this turn)
-[x] Anexa Active Action: Research
-[x] Victan Passive Action: Counterespionage & Alliance-building
-[x] Cia Passive Action: Passive Psyker improvement
-[x] Denva: Manufacturing Capacity
-[x] Denva: Technology Request: Manufacturing Technology. GMEI, LVSM, superconductors, machine spirit manufacturing techs, and Medium Defense Platforms (for industrial purposes, such as starports and other forms of space based manufacturing).
-[x] Denva: Unification (Denva Federation)
--[x] Ethos: make a truly benevolent, knowledgable, and strong society, and a place worth living in that can make the galaxy better.

 

[meianmaru]

--[x] Ethos: We want them to prepare to help us do for others the same as we did for them. That means spreading tools and knowledge. As such, they should focus on building manufacturing capacity, advancing scientifically, and most importantly learning how to be good to each other and make a truly benevolent society, and a place worth living in.

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Invalid by the strict definition if going by what Neablis said in the update. Not sure how strict this is actually meant to be, but I would suggest editing this part according to the guidelines:

-[] Denva: Unification (Write in name/ethos)
Ask the nations of Denva to unify, and name the new nation and give it a single-sentence ethos. This will quash any chances of things going off the rails, as well as give them a slight boost to all areas for a little while and determine something about the nation that emerges.

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[Derpmind]

We will still have 350 BP/action, compared to our previous 500. Ground manufactories cost 100, so we can still make 3 in one action, or 7 in two.

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If we spent two actions on it, we'd build three (and one half) ground manufactories for the first action, and then we'd have 500 BP/action to spend on the second action. So we could build 8.5 manufactories in two actions, not just 7.

Manufactory efficiency research is generally best done while on the go, as just using the action to crash build more manufactories instead usually beats it in BP output gained.

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While we're at it, we should definitely research larger ship size construction before we return to Denva. That way, we can build a new and much bigger flagship using Denva's future VBP capacity.

 

[90% Human]

[X] Plan: You can't take the sky from me!
[X] Yes

 

[Aineko]

Actually, there is a geometric benefit of Ascalon, I was thinking about it wrong. If we want to explore 4 out, we can still jump back in one action so long as we go Ascalon, Vorthryn, Calderoth, and then one step over into unmapped subsector Tyràn. It's not the only direction where geometry allows something like that, but it's the simplest.

I dunno whether that's the course of our next few turns, but the possibility is there.

[X] Plan: You can't take the sky from me!

Do you share the genetics technology with Denva? (Separate from plan vote)
[X] Yes

 

[Haganeko]

[X] Plan: Take the skies with science!
[Snip]

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Added a society name to my plan, but am open to suggestions.

 

[DragonParadox]

You know if we get tech priests as per the winning plan...

Anexa's Totally Radical Tech Priest School, Dude!
Anexa: So you know how AI is supposed to be the robo-Devil?
Crew Member: Yes...?
Anexa: Vita is an AI, turns out AI is fine, the others just got possessed by the actual devils that live in the warp, they are called the Arch-Enemy or simply Chaos.
*Later*
Crew Member: Boss, what's in the triple sealed vault that we were told to absolutely, positively never open, even if our life depended on it?
Anexa: That's a scrapcode daemon Vita is poking with a stick to learn more about how to fight Chaos.

 

[Karnax626]

-[][DENVA] Boons!
--[] Denva #1: Unification: The Stellar Ascendancy. "Be for others as I have been for you."
--[] Denva #2: Manufacturing Capacity
--[] Denva #3: Crew: Tech-priests under Anexa

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Out of curiosity why pick Manufacturing Capacity over something like more psyker crew? Couldn't we pay for the BP boon next time we're here with whatever new research we looked into whilst we were away?

 

[Prime 2.0]

Actually, there is a geometric benefit of Ascalon, I was thinking about it wrong. If we want to explore 4 out, we can still jump back in one action so long as we go Ascalon, Vorthryn, Calderoth, and then one step over into unmapped subsector Tyràn. It's not the only direction where geometry allows something like that, but it's the simplest.

I dunno whether that's the course of our next few turns, but the possibility is there.

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Keeping our away time brief for now does appeal, since Denva is farther out from the point of snowballing than I thought last turn.

Out of curiosity why pick Manufacturing Capacity over something like more psyker crew? Couldn't we pay for the BP boon next time we're here with whatever new research we looked into whilst we were away?

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I'd say it's because the guarantee of being able to hit the ground running on our return is more valuable - before the option was offered, there was a lot of debate about whether or not we even could trade for significant factory time, and the closest thing Neablis offered to a settled answer about that was making this boon an option.

By contrast, we can take on some psyker staff with the boons we earn next time (or a focused diplo action with the monastaries before we leave) and miss out on nothing depending on our research order during the first road trip.

 

[Aineko]

Keeping our away time brief for now does appeal, since Denva is farther out from the point of snowballing than I thought last turn.

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To be clear, I was always assuming the described benefit was of this sort, I just took longer than I should have to realize there was a course that actually delivered it along this direction.

(There are actually at least three different courses and a variant that allow 4-out 1-back. There's even a 5-out-1-back and a 6-out-1-back, though that last ends at Zarithune's Maw for good or ill...)

 

[Angle]

[X] Plan: Foundation for Further Uplift
-[X] Research x2 (400 + 60 Anexa RP)
--[X] Large Scale Machine Spirits (40 RP + 60 Anexa RP)
--[X] Industrial Organic-Machine Control (150 RP)
--[X] Efficient Psychic Shielding (100 RP)
--[X] Further Scrapcode Research (100 RP)
--[X] Okay, maybe there's a point to medical school (+10, 30/50 RP)
-[X] Construction (8,350 BP)
--[X] Auto-repair damaged Shields (Budget of 1,000 VBP to handle shield repairs)
--[X] Flagship Refits:
---[X] Drop 3x Manufactories, Captive Holding Cells. Build The Oubliette (Or, the Bongo Containment Zone), 4 Slots, Up to 8,100 BP for 540/540 HP)
---[X] Anything left over from discounts from Efficient Shielding is to be spent preparing a second cage around his current one before we research Bongo, just in case he stages another breakout when we poke him.
--[X] Anything left over after that should be spent to refit manufactories with machine spirits, prioritizing planet side ones, then to refit installations with machine spirits, prioritizing planet side ones, and anything after that can be spent on Denva as uplift assistance.
-[X] Explore: Ascalon
--[X][FREE] They can have it (+1 Boon, we're getting OMC Manufacturing this turn)
-[X] Anexa Active Action: Research
-[X] Victan Passive Action: Counterespionage & Alliance-building
-[X] Cia Passive Action: Passive Psyker improvement
-[X] Denva: Manufacturing Capacity
-[X] Denva: Technology Request: Manufacturing Technology. GMEI, LVSM, superconductors, machine spirit manufacturing techs, and Medium Defense Platforms (for industrial purposes, such as starports and other forms of space based manufacturing).
-[X] Denva: Unification
--[X] Ethos: make a truly benevolent, knowledgable, and strong society, and a place worth living in that can make the galaxy better.

[X] Plan: Foundation for Further Uplift (Without Bongo)

[X] Yes

 

[Negentropy]

[X] Plan: You can't take the sky from me!

[X] Yes

I look forward to finding a merry band of techpriests to fulfill the true extent of the Cogitare Exploraratum dreams amongst the stars, but I look even more forward to spreading the Cogita message board/forum across the entire galaxy!

You delve further into the components of the message board - which Victan named Cogita - and find various sections with free-ranging speculation on the nature of the Omnissiah and other topics that verge on the heretekal. There's even a thread called "not Heretek" which is definitely heretekal, as it speculates on ways to make machine spirits consious, and what such a spirit could achieve.

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Clearly, we must develop FTL comms post-haste to unite all noospheres in the galaxy under through Cogita - think of the breakthroughs in Forum Questing technologies and Heretekical shitposting they could achieve together!

(Although seriously a mutually support and collaborating network, sharing information and material aid all the while mostly running itself would be very helpful to us, and the wider galaxy - or drag the Mechanicus into a thousand thousand flame wars that grind the Imperium to a halt with no one to operate its tech, but that's the risk you take when accepting gifts from your local friendly Robo-Satan/Santa!)

 

[DragonParadox]

(Although seriously a mutually support and collaborating network, sharing information and material aid all the while mostly running itself would be very helpful to us, and the wider galaxy - or drag the Mechanicus into a thousand thousand flame wars that grind the Imperium to a halt with no one to operate its tech, but that's the risk you take when accepting gifts from your local friendly Robo-Satan/Santa!)

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I believe the imperial parlance for that is 'a cult'.

 

[meianmaru]

Out of curiosity why pick Manufacturing Capacity over something like more psyker crew? Couldn't we pay for the BP boon next time we're here with whatever new research we looked into whilst we were away?

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What Prime 2.0 said, but also because as far as I've understood this is based on a rough percentage of their manufacturing capacity. Whatever it happens to be when we cash in the boon.

So if we wait long enough, with maybe occasionally dropping in to accelerate their industry even further by dropping them new techs in exchange for something else? We could theoretically get staggering amounts of industry, like a max. size Battleship with all the bells and whistles as our new flagship in one turn. Well, if we wait long enough and they are still willing to hold their promise to that extent.

 

[Questwolf]

[X] Plan: You can't take the sky from me!

 

[Nightlord256]

Keeping our away time brief for now does appeal, since Denva is farther out from the point of snowballing than I thought last turn.

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Yeah, I'm expecting us to spend a turn in each system unless we find something really good/bad/important that we want to take/run away from/investigate.

Edit: remember that the map we have might be incomplete, so we could discover other links as we explore.

 

[Dimorphodon]

[X]Bye Denva see you in 20(ish) years

[x] Plan: Foundation for Further Uplift (Without Bongo)

I could continue to argue about why not getting rid of the damn thing already is a massive mistake that is going to bite us in the ass but with 5 hours left of voting time and a 17 vote gap I may as well scream into the void.

 

[DragonParadox]

[X]Bye Denva see you in 20(ish) years

[x] Plan: Foundation for Further Uplift (Without Bongo)

I could continue to argue about why not getting rid of the damn thing already is a massive mistake that is going to bite us in the ass but with 5 hours left of voting time and a 17 vote gap I may as well scream into the void.

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To give you the argument from the other side, we have been putting a lot of effort into building the containment for this thing. Vita, a Woman of Stone built from the ground up to be a researcher with the starting advantage of Technological Shields has been putting something like a third of her actions for the last century researching how to contain this thing in one way or another. If she cannot stay head of a no name daemon in a box what chance does anyone ever have of understanding Chaos?

And if the answer is 'they can't' then what are we doing here? How are we meant to make things less shit when we can't touch Chaos even in the most contained of circumstances putting a massive amount of effort towards it?

Now that I have gotten all the questions out of my system ( ) consider for a moment that a lot of the contingencies are designed to around not just preventing a breach, but dealing with one. I firmly believe that the winning plan takes enough precautions that we can deal with anything short of truly atrocious rolls. We came out OK from Poor Success vs Crit last time with a lot less prep.