Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest

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[X] Plan: Preparing Research, Shipbuilding, and monastery visit
-[X] Diplomacy
--[X] Establish a research cooperation between the nations of Devon and Vita.
---[X] Offer BP bribes to support settings Up labs. (200BP now, more possible later)
---[X] offer nonmilitary, non-psychic, non-chaos, non-juvenat tech Vita already has as bribes
---[X] Show them non-chaos researches you could do as potential cooperation topics.
----[X] Military Tech is gated behind them showing cooperation that proves they'd use it against outside threats and not to kill each other. Make sure to mention the spy incident & sound annoyed when doing so. Gated Tech is released gradually as Trust grows.
----[X] Juvenat is gated behind them cooperating and showing that it would be distributed fairly in a way that doesn't create a class of immortals ruling over mortals.
---[X] Victan Assists
-[X] Construction (3,500 BP, (Fully convertable to VBP) 1,100 VBP)
--[X] 2x Tiny System Monitors (1,900 VBP, -100 CP)
--[X] Update all Bots to Machine-Spirit Bots (423 BP, +1,260 CP)
--[X] 5x Orbital Manufactories (-1,250 VBP, -200 CP)
--[X] Boosted Vault Shielding (+40) (-800 BP)
--[X] Trade Goods (-27 BP)
--[X] Bribes (-200 BP Budget)
-[X] Research x2
--[X] Can I have a new ship please? (200 RP)
--[X] Miniaturized psychic shielding: (160 + 40 Anexa RP)
--[X] The Basics of Psytech (+40 RP (now 55/200)
-[X] [ANEXA] RESEARCH: Miniaturized Psychic Shielding
-[X] [VICTAN] Assist with Research cooperation

A plan with research cooperation, mostly based on Alectais plan.
Has all the preparation for shipbuilding, preparation for monastery visit, etc just pushes the monastery diplo back one turn.
 
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Aura Dragon said:
I'm assuming that the Lunar clone is simply for a system defense boat and not for a warp transit capable ship?
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That is correct, since we don't know the cost of a new void abacus yet it seems simpler to design monitors for now.

Even with the most aggressive upscaling, this ship wouldn't make sense for several turns. But I think it can eventually serve as a nice core of a defensive fleet.

[X] Plan: Final Preparations For BOTE
 
Nightlord256 said:
That is correct, since we don't know the cost of a new void abacus yet it seems simpler to design monitors for now.

Even with the most aggressive upscaling, this ship wouldn't make sense for several turns. But I think it can eventually serve as a nice core of a defensive fleet.
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Yeah, if we can make a few of those then I doubt that we'll have to run away from the first incoming threat.
 
@Neablis, a question on ships weapons. How does damage scale from light - medium - heavy?

The write up for torpedoes directly calls out the targets/level of damage. Other weapons don't seem to have different descriptions by size, do they follow similar scaling as torpedoes?

Edit: and a follow on question, do larger weapons have any accuracy or penalties firing at smaller targets. For example, would a large torpedo have trouble hitting a destroyer compared to a small torpedo?

Neablis said:
Small Torpedoes 150 BP. A payload of straight-flying armored torpedoes, sized to give destroyers a bad day, hurt frigates and prick cruisers.
Medium Torpedoes 300 BP. A payload of straight-flying armored torpedoes, sized to wreck frigates, hurt cruisers and make grand cruisers know they've been touched.
Large Torpedoes 600 BP. A payload of straight-flying armored torpedoes, sized to wreck cruisers, hurt grand cruisers and make battleships cruisers know they've been touched
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Neablis said:
Light Macrocannons 100 bp. Medium range, projectile weapons built for sustained barrage.
Medium Macrocannons 200 bp. Medium range, projectile weapons built for sustained barrage.
Heavy Macrocannons 400 bp. Medium range, projectile weapons built for sustained barrage.
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[X] Plan: Final Preparations For BOTE

Before we build our ship, make sure we scout those gas giant stations first. We might be able to piggyback off of the station's infrastructure (or at worse scavenge them for parts and materials) to drive down costs.

@Neablis, you've mentioned that our flagship will be uniquely refittable/modifiable post-construction - does that mean (with the necessary tech, infrastructure, resources, etc. presets) we could expand/"grow" our ship into the next highest ship (weight) class, assuming that the design was developed with such refits in mind, we passed the requisite rolls, etc., or would we have to build a whole new flagship in that instance? Would precious flagships be as customisable, or only the one we are currently using (as a flagship/personal vessel)?
 
Neablis said:
Nope. Here are the categories I'm brainstorming:
Ship Design optimization: -[] Grand Cruisers -[] Medium Defense Platforms -[] Streamlined ship design -[] Efficient Equipment Distribution -[] Extremely Efficient Weapon Distribution -[] Boarding Capabilities -[] Can I have a new ship please
General Design optimization: -[] Large-scale Void Manufacturing -[] Ground Manufactory Efficiency Improvements? -[] Shuttle automation -[] Walkers -[] Abacus Manufacturing
Stealth Technology: -[] Basic Spaceship Stealth -[] Basic Ground force stealth -[] Improved Passive Stealth -[] Basic Active Stealth
Shield technology: -[] Heavy Void shields -[] Heavy In-atmosphere void shields -[] Tiny In-atmosphere void
Materials & Armor:-[] Superheavy Armor -[] Advanced Materials -[] Basic power armor
Robotics: -[] Avatar self-customization -[] Improved Armor Articulation -[] Really good Robotics:
AI research: -[] Intelligence Coding) - [] Personality-Checking Routines
Psychic Shielding: -[] Improved Psychic shielding: -[] Miniaturized psychic shielding:
The Warp:-[] Scrapcode Research -[] Abacus-Warp interactions
Psytech: - [] The Basics of Psytech
Physics: -[] Gravity Weapons -[] The Biggest Boom -[] Superconductive Shenanigans -[] Miniaturized antigrav -[] High-energy Physics
Machine Spirits -[] Improved combat Machine spirits -[] Large-scale Machine spirits -[] Manufacturing Machine Spirits -[] Machine Spirit Chaos resistance -[] Psytech Machine spirits
Medical Technology: -[] Servitorization -[] An Introduction to Human Genetics -[] Does in vitro have something to do with wine? -[] You don't need no stinkin' medical -[] Drugs? Drugs. -[] Juvenat Beginnings -[] Navigator Genetics -[] Navigator Gestation
Cybernetics: -[] Combat Mobility Cybernetics -[] Combat Neural Implants -[] Advanced organ -[] Superhuman organ replacements -[] Advanced Neural Implants -[] Advanced Combat cybernetics -[] Basic Cognition Filter -[] Organic-Machine control (150 RP)
Hacking:-[] Rapid hacking -[] Improved Machine-spirit Jamming

These aren't final, and note that some researches may spawn new categories from researching them - such as walkers giving you the knight/titan category.

Also, this isn't final, let me know if you have suggestions.
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Can I suggest doing AI and machine spirits in the same thing as Neural nets?
I find it a bit strange it isn't. Same goal and all that. Even if wholly different foundation. Making those into one just fits IMO.
 
Nightlord256 said:
@Neablis, a question on ships weapons. How does damage scale from light - medium - heavy?

The write up for torpedoes directly calls out the targets/level of damage. Other weapons don't seem to have different descriptions by size, do they follow similar scaling as torpedoes?

Edit: and a follow on question, do larger weapons have any accuracy or penalties firing at smaller targets. For example, would a large torpedo have trouble hitting a destroyer compared to a small torpedo?
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The damage scales superlinearly but not exponentially. A heavy weapon that costs 4x as much as a light weapon will do between 5-8x as much damage, and have better armor-penetration capabilities. However, it'll also be easier to dodge and generally worse against smaller craft. If you want to shoot destroyers 4x light weapons is better than 1x larger. If you want to shoot frigates and LCs the lights are good and if you want to shoot heavy cruisers and up the heavies are good. There is another tier of "Ultra-heavy" weapons locked behind GC research that's for shooting GCs and BBs.

This is variously true on different weapons - if a battleship's shields are down and a destroyer gets in close even a light melta is going to do some damage, and a heavy lance still is pretty good against smaller ships because it's hitscan. Torpedoes are the epitome of this, since if a destroyer is still mobile it will dodge a heavy torpedo, though it might have to put itself into a compromising position to do so.

Negentropy said:
@Neablis, you've mentioned that our flagship will be uniquely refittable/modifiable post-construction - does that mean (with the necessary tech, infrastructure, resources, etc. presets) we could expand/"grow" our ship into the next highest ship (weight) class, assuming that the design was developed with such refits in mind, we passed the requisite rolls, etc., or would we have to build a whole new flagship in that instance? Would precious flagships be as customisable, or only the one we are currently using (as a flagship/personal vessel)?
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Here's what I'm currently writing up for the coming ship-design vote:
In general, the only thing about the flagship that can't be changed/upgraded/filled in after it's built are the base hull size, armor and non-combat equipment, which need to be built directly into the hull. So you could for example build an empty hull that's just engines, armor and whatever noncombat equipment you want. However, be warned that the price to upgrade to fill in the empty frame will be higher than the price to build everything in at the start, though the result will be the same in the end. You'll be able to convert weapon BP to modular BP later if you want to.

Insult Everyone! said:
Can I suggest doing AI and machine spirits in the same thing as Neural nets?
I find it a bit strange it isn't. Same goal and all that. Even if wholly different foundation. Making those into one just fits IMO.
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Nope. Totally different foundations. Anexa understands machine spirits but she doesn't know shit about AI.
 
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Insult Everyone! said:
Can I suggest doing AI and machine spirits in the same thing as Neural nets?
I find it a bit strange it isn't. Same goal and all that. Even if wholly different foundation. Making those into one just fits IMO.
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IRL, we have this difference too - neural networks versus symbolic GOFAI.
 
Maybe so, but game-mechanics wise it's... kinda the same? The effects achievable don't really diverge much, if at all.
That said, having it unified by a later research would also be a cool way to emphasise a thorough understanding.
 
Neablis said:
In general, the only thing about the flagship that can't be changed/upgraded/filled in after it's built are the base hull size, armor and non-combat equipment, which need to be built directly into the hull. So you could for example build an empty hull that's just engines, armor and whatever noncombat equipment you want.
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Do we have to do this before designing our ship for the upgraded ship manufactory?

I am pretty sure it is non combat equipment.

Neablis said:
[] Large-scale Void Manufacturing (200 RP) Unlike ground factories, which have to deal with gravity and atmosphere, there's little stopping you from just... scaling up the principles of void manufacturing. Besides the annoying spaghetti of logistics, but that's a solvable problem. (Allows you to design large void manufactories that are more efficient, improves the manufactories on your ships. Potential for other void-based platform technologies).
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I've made a Very Small change to the plan based on some input I recieved while I was sleeping and then later out. It doesn't materially change what we do in the plan, it just pivots the excess RP from Basics of Psytech into Improved Shielding, and if we get some overflow it might put it in a position where we can knock that over cheaply next turn.
 
AltF4152 said:
Do we have to do this before designing our ship for the upgraded ship manufactory?

I am pretty sure it is non combat equipment.
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That's one of the systems that will work differently for the flagship. You'll effectively be putting ground-based manufactories into the ship. More BP efficient at the cost of higher CP requirements.

The only things that will need to be built into the base hull are:
Warp Drive (1/10 of the base cost of the hull, rounded up to nearest 50) This ship can jump to the warp. Navigation systems sold separately.
Warp Abacus mounting frame (1/20 of the base cost of the hull, rounded up to nearest 50) This ship can mount a warp abacus, sold separately.
Psychic Shielding (1/5 of the base cost of the hull, rounded up to nearest 50) This ship has a neural network integrated throughout the whole thing, that thinks "no" as hard as possible, answering the question for any warp-corruption for any beings or objects within the hull. HP scales with ship size.
Repair Bay (Any cost up to base cost of hull, counts as combat equipment for cramming purposes). Repairs damage across friendly ships equal to its cost in repairs.

You'll find out in a few hours, since I'll probably post the sub-turn for flagship design soon after the vote closes.
 
meianmaru said:
Sorry if you've answered this before, but will we be rolling how well the ship-designing will go? Or is it a research action without a roll like blueprints?
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Good question. I think there will be a roll. Rolling poorly will give it a CP tax, while a good roll will provide a % BP discount for the final design, and a crit will both provide a discount and remove the BP penalty for modifying the ship after it's built.

This is partially because a full grand cruiser flagship is going to be pricey, and I think it's reasonable to give you a chance to discount it.
 
Neablis said:
Psychic Shielding (1/5 of the base cost of the hull, rounded up to nearest 50) This ship has a neural network integrated throughout the whole thing, that thinks "no" as hard as possible, answering the question for any warp-corruption for any beings or objects within the hull. HP scales with ship size.
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Never going to get the rest of the questers to sign off on it, but I want to see what happens if we get one of these that says YES, or MAYBE.
 
Yesn't probes.

They're more attractive bait than MAYBE or YES probes, because they look a little more like a properly conflicted sapient being to tempt. Bonus realism if the Yes and n't parts vary in response to stimuli.
 
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