Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest

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DragonParadox said:
Safer certainly, I'm not sure about 'better'. Imperials broadly have a pretty spotty understanding of the warp, comes with the virulent hate and the fascism, not good for research and these are at best half trained imperial psykers.
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While their knowledge is spotty, the tech that imperials have Works they just do not understand why. I bet there is a world of difference between 'modern' Gellar fields and whatever proto-shield our warp drive uses. Actually, @Neablis does our pre-fall warp drive have a Gellar field (or equivalent) at all? or is that what our psychic shielding represents?
 
Nightlord256 said:
While their knowledge is spotty, the tech that imperials have Works they just do not understand why. I bet there is a world of difference between 'modern' Gellar fields and whatever proto-shield our warp drive uses. Actually, @Neablis does our pre-fall warp drive have a Gellar field (or equivalent) at all? or is that what our psychic shielding represents?
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I wouldn't. There is no indication that they changed anything about Gellar Fields from the DAoT into the Great Crusade Era, indeed we know the Ad Mech at least were using them throughout (yes into the teeth of the warp-storms I never claimed they were sensible), that is how some of the oldest Forge worlds were founded. So it's not like they added some super special Emperor modifications after the Unification Wars. Imperial psy-tech is plagued by secrecy, paranoia and a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Warp is. We know all this because we have Eldar PoVs confirming it.
 
Hmmm, I always thought they must of improved something since they managed to exist. On reflection that looks like confirmation bias talking.

Speaking of Eldar, would love to get our hands on some of their tech just to see Vita's reaction to studying it.
 
I think might be late to get changes for this round of voting, but I think we should make sure going forward we work towards the bio stuff more for two reasons:

1. Work towards getting the navigator born and growing (I expect even once they're born we're looking at three to five turns before they're properly assignable). Depending on timing, they may be helpful for warp and travel related research (for example once we know more about how they work and how abacuses work, maybe there's combinations or improvements for both)
2. So we can get the implants that let people control robots directly, to cut down on CP costs and let our characters do more stuff
 
Despite the imperial mindset, monestaries are still better. When trying to deal with something that actively hates us, better one that can change than one which fundamentally cannot.

That's worst case scenario for the monks too, they might be yearning for freedom and safety from a trigger-happy panopticon. Then they can give us trustworthy first hand impression of the warp, answer questions, do experiments.

Whereas scrapcode will always and forever try to mess with us in any way it can come up with as we dripfeed it just enough energy to be alive and thrashing, but not enough to be a threat. And that just sounds like the prologue of a horror story to me.
 
Glau said:
Despite the imperial mindset, monestaries are still better. When trying to deal with something that actively hates us, better one that can change than one which fundamentally cannot.

That's worst case scenario for the monks too, they might be yearning for freedom and safety from a trigger-happy panopticon. Then they can give us trustworthy first hand impression of the warp, answer questions, do experiments.

Whereas scrapcode will always and forever try to mess with us in any way it can come up with as we dripfeed it just enough energy to be alive and thrashing, but not enough to be a threat. And that just sounds like the prologue of a horror story to me.
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Yes, but the best case scenario is also considerably less impressive for the monasteries because their main means of dealing with the problem involves three things Vita does not possess: psychic talent, faith and a soul. There are no doubt some basic lessons we can integrate but not as much as we can get using the sheer luck of a minor isolated Chaos entity.
 
DragonParadox said:
Yes, but the best case scenario is also considerably less impressive for the monasteries because their main means of dealing with the problem involves three things Vita does not possess: psychic talent, faith and a soul. There are no doubt some basic lessons we can integrate but not as much as we can get using the sheer luck of a minor isolated Chaos entity.
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While accurate, let's not forget the psychic dome shields that they have. We have a word of god that studying their shields is the best way to discount our psychic shielding research.

Neablis said:
2. Yes, but more for psychic shielding than warp understanding. I've been trying to hint that the best way to discount psychic shielding would be to go study the monastery domes, but even just studying the psytech you have access to would kind of be a prereq and would do something for your own psychic shielding understanding.
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On another topic, The super metal, Kultrinium, from Denva Primus was describe as 'useful for building high-power conduits and cheaper magnets'. I bet a sample of that would give us discounts for Superconductors and Advanced Materials, maybe something to plan a turn or two down the road once we have a ship.
 
Dimorphodon said:
Honestly, with the navigator fetus I am starting to wonder if engaging with the monasteries more than just the minimum is even worth it. We could just give them the psi-shields and whatever we get out of the "basic of psionics" tech and call it a day.

I guess it would depend on what we see that they can offer us in exchange. Still, if we contact them, we should wait until we have all the necessary tech researched.
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You get in what you put out. The things I've hinted at you being able to aquire from the monestary:
1. Insight into more psytech, though likely only focused on passive protection from chaos/warpy stuff. This will likely reduce the cost of psychic shielding, psytech and potentially other warpy stuff.
2. A Psyker Crewmember.

Nightlord256 said:
While their knowledge is spotty, the tech that imperials have Works they just do not understand why. I bet there is a world of difference between 'modern' Gellar fields and whatever proto-shield our warp drive uses. Actually, @Neablis does our pre-fall warp drive have a Gellar field (or equivalent) at all? or is that what our psychic shielding represents?
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Yeah, you have both a Gellar Field & Psychic shielding. They do different but overlapping things. You haven't had a chance to investigate Imperial Gellar shields but they're actually decently advanced (in the same way their antigravity is, incredibly streamlined and elegant designs that probably came out of an STC).

There might be a tech if you capture an Imperial gellar field that drops the cost of warp drives or something. That's where they're bundled in.

edofthesquid said:
Depending on timing, they may be helpful for warp and travel related research (for example once we know more about how they work and how abacuses work, maybe there's combinations or improvements for both)
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It should be noted that I'm categorizing "Navigator" and "Psyker" in almost entirely separate buckets. They'll have different abilities and different powers. A Navigator will help you more with warpy-travel stuff and could also specialize into piloting or more direct combat. A Psyker will not involve as much direct travel through the warp but will likely have a specialty (split between Biomancy, Divination, Pyromancy, Telekinesis and Telepathy) that they are good at, though one option at levels 10 & 20 will be to pick up a second discipline.

Nightlord256 said:
On another topic, The super metal, Kultrinium, from Denva Primus was describe as 'useful for building high-power conduits and cheaper magnets'. I bet a sample of that would give us discounts for Superconductors and Advanced Materials, maybe something to plan a turn or two down the road once we have a ship.
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It'll do a few things, including boosting productivity based on how much you're mining.
 
Is a Matryoshka doll ship design possible?

E.g make the ship designed so that it can slot into a bigger shell later?, and then have that one slot into an even bigger one even later?
 
I feel like you could design the bridge section of a grand cruiser to function as a detached frigate, like start trek does the saucers. It would probably be more of an exploration yacht than a warship though, since it would have all the C&C gear of a grand cruiser taking up space already, but that might be good if we want to look friendly.
 
Glau said:
I feel like you could design the bridge section of a grand cruiser to function as a detached frigate, like start trek does the saucers. It would probably be more of an exploration yacht than a warship though, since it would have all the C&C gear of a grand cruiser taking up space already, but that might be good if we want to look friendly.
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It is 40K, we do not want to look unarmed. The nicest people in the setting (probably Exodites or some flavor of Tau) would look at a ship that is poorly armed for its size and think we are fools.
 
How soon are we planning on investigating Imperial Ship Design?

And how bad or serviceable do you consider it in-universe? Because there is a *ton* wrong with it if you look at it through anything not an in-universe/zany science fantasy/over the top view....
 
My fortune is purified, and my preparation complete, I will begin the ritual chant when the rolls are imminent.
 
DragonParadox said:
We could certainly do it, but we'd have to replace something.
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Thanks, that's the primary thing I didn't understand - if we could add a diplomatic action without sacrificing other actions. If we can't, then I'm fine carrying on with the plan.

[X] Plan: Trust the People of Denva

As much as I like the write-in for "one station, hold the chaos", I get the bad feeling it would be a "have your cake and eat it too" situation, where we end up in the worst of both worlds having spent the actions on investing in training and control but don't get the benefit of cultural independence and confidence.
 
Turn 15 vote closed
  • Voting
    • Scheduled vote count started by Neablis on Dec 13, 2024 at 5:33 AM, finished with 97 posts and 28 votes.
    • [X] Plan: Trust the People of Denva
      -[X][DATABASE] We've got Klyssar Station, and it was a place for Navigators, right? See if you can get an idea of where the transit logs are, get an idea of where points of interest in the local galactic region might be in the future.
      -[X] Construction: (3500 Ground BP, 550 Void BP))
      --[X] 1x Small Shipyard (-1000 VBP, -50 CP)
      --[X] 11x Orbital Manufactories (-2750 VBP, -440 CP)
      --[X] Danger Vault! (-100 VBP to isolate the Scrap Code Generator somewhere well out of reach in orbit with no access to production material, and a warning to tell us if the shield drops below, say, 70%. Maybe Machine Spirits too if we can? We've got a little excess wiggle-room in the budget if we need it.)
      --[X] Repair Psychic Shielding (-150 BP)
      --[X] Restore Combat Losses (-120 BP)
      -[X] Research x3 (+600 RP + 30 Anexa RP)
      --[X] Efficient Weapon Distribution (-100 RP)
      --[X] Heavy Cruisers (-300 RP)
      --[X] Secrets of the machine Spirits (15 Anexa RP, Completed!)
      --[X] The Workings of a Void Abacus (-150 RP)
      --[X] Organ Replacements, Redux (-50 RP)
      --[X] The Basics of Psytech (-15/200 RP, remaining Anexa RP)
      -[X][ANEXA] Research (Secrets of the Machine Spirits)
      -[X][VICTAN] Communications
      -[X][CRAPCODE] Keep It--in a 100 BP vault many, many clicks away in orbit, with no production abilities, locked behind psy-shielding and hopefully defended by our first batch of homebrew Machine Spirits, and with only a single beacon that will light up if it hits 70% integrity for us. We'll get to it sooner rather than later. And yes, I know what I titled this as.
      -[X][STATION] Yes, we've got to have faith. They have the tools they need to make this work.
      [X] Plan: One Station, Hold the Chaos
      -[x] [Free] Poke around some more in the databases, looking for anything in particular.
      --[x] Having encountered it directly now you a portion of your processing capacity into poring over the available archive logs, focusing specifically on references to "scrapcode" and its various manifestations. Your goal is to unearth any details on transmission vectors and defensive protocols against these insidious code-parasites. You look for notes on the relationship between standard encryption methods and psychic infiltration, hoping to find either known countermeasures or at least theoretical frameworks for hardening machinery against hostile machine-spirits.
      -[x] Construction 1 (3500 GBP->VBP + 550 VBP = 4050 VBP)
      --[x] 6x Orbital Manufactories (1500 VBP, 240 CP)
      --[x] Repair Psychic Shield (150 BP)
      --[x] 1x Defense Satellite (300 VBP) [Denva Orbit near Shipyard]
      --[x] Scrapcode containment (150 BP), built underground at the end of a long tunnel
      --[x] Light Shipyard in Denva Orbit (1000 VBP)
      --[x] Tiny System Monitor (950 VBP)
      -[x] Research x2 (400 + 25 RP)
      --[x] Secrets of Machine Spirits (15 RP)
      --[x] The workings of a Void Abacus (125+25 RP) You have a void abacus. It's pretty complicated, but you also have the manual, and you've always been good at physics. (You're better at using your void abacus, and unlocks the technology to figure out how to manufacture them, half of unlocking research for better warp understanding).
      ---[x] Axena Helps
      --[x] Warp Fundamentals (all remaining RP)
      -[x]Diplomatic Action
      --[x] You propose a carefully supervised transition of authority that emphasizes partnership and mentorship rather than a sudden handover. With a series of structured workshops, simulations, and guided maintenance drills, you'll invite their engineers, administrators, and security teams aboard Klyssar's Nest for lessons on calibrating life support systems, managing energy distributions, and overseeing essential machine-spirits. Throughout these sessions, the station remains nominally under your command, ensuring that any crisis can be swiftly resolved before it escalates. Gradually, as the denizens of Denva gain confidence and skill, you step back and encourage them to handle more complex challenges on their own. Yet you never fully disappear—like a parent jogging just behind a toddler's bike, you stand ready to steady their progress if they start to wobble. This training program not only transfers operational knowledge, but also fosters trust and respect, allowing both sides to see that Klyssar's Nest is best served by cooperation rather than immediate independence.
      -[x] Anexa active Action: Research – Void Abacus
      -[x] Victan active action: Assist with Diplomatic Action, specifically check to make sure there are no malcontents/anyone looking to sabotage the project.
      -[x] Keep It
      -[x] Yes, hand over Klyssar's Nest
      [x] Plan: Trust but Verify
      -[x] [Comment] Uses the construction plan from Plan: Trust the People of Denva, and starts with Plan: One Station, Hold the Chaos's research plan, but uses the default "no" option for the simpler 5 year station handoff to get more RP to throw at the warp research. Build order updated based on this answer.
      -[X][DATABASE] We've got Klyssar Station, and it was a place for Navigators, right? See if you can get an idea of where the transit logs are, get an idea of where points of interest in the local galactic region might be in the future.
      -[x] Construction x1 (3500 GBP->VBP + 550 VBP = 4050 VBP)
      --[X] 1x Small Shipyard (-1000 VBP, -50 CP)
      --[X] 11x Orbital Manufactories (-2750 VBP, -440 CP)
      --[X] Danger Vault! (-100 VBP to isolate the Scrap Code Generator somewhere well out of reach in orbit with no access to production material, and a warning to tell us if the shield drops below, say, 70%. Maybe Machine Spirits too if we can? We've got a little excess wiggle-room in the budget if we need it.)
      --[X] Repair Psychic Shielding (-150 BP)
      --[X] Restore Combat Losses (-120 BP)
      -[x] Research x3 (600 + 25 RP)
      --[x] Secrets of Machine Spirits (15 RP, Completed!)
      --[x] The workings of a Void Abacus (125+25 Anexa RP)
      --[X] The Basics of Psytech (200 RP)
      --[x] Warp Fundamentals (all remaining RP)
      -[X] [ANEXA] Research (Void Abacus)
      -[X][VICTAN] Communications
      -[X] [SCRAPCODE] Keep It--in a 100 BP vault many, many clicks away in orbit, with no production abilities, locked behind psy-shielding and hopefully defended by our first batch of homebrew Machine Spirits, and with only a single beacon that will light up if it hits 70% integrity for us. We'll get to it sooner rather than later.
      -[X] [STATION] No. You're going to hold onto the control of the station for now and make sure everything is running smoothly and they all understand the technology before you hand over the keys to the castle.
      [X] Plan: Safe research
      [X] Construction (4050 VBP)
      -[X] small shipyard: (1000 BP, 50 CP) It's time to start building ship
      -[X] trade goods as compensation for delayed full station handover (100 BP)
      -[X] Repair Psychic shielding (150 BP)
      -[X] basic defense satellite X3 (900 BP, 30 CP) two near the shipyard and one near the Denva space station
      -[X] Tiny system monitor X2 (1900 BP, 100 CP)
      -[X] Research x3 (600 RP available + Anexa's 25 RP)
      --[X] Secrets of the Machine Spirits (185/200 -> 200/200, 15 RP spent)
      --[X] The workings of a Void Abacus (0 -> 150/150, 165 RP spent)
      ---[X] Anexa assists "void abacus" tech
      --[X] Large-scale Void Manufacturing (0 -> 200/200, 365 RP spent)
      --[X] Heavy Cruisers (0 -> 260/300, 625 RP spent)
      -[X] Victan performs counterespionage & communication (passive action)
      -[X] Scrapcode generator
      --[X] Destroy it. The sun's right there. Open the shuttle bay doors, fling the whole faraday cage + altar straight towards a giant fusion reaction. At present, the risks are too high.
      -[X] Klyssar's Nest
      --[X] Do not turn the station over until you are satisfied that Denva crews are fully trained and capable of operating the station without incident.
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    Ok, Dice rolls! I need 6x d100s please. Separate people please, and this is the order of the rolls:
    1st: Navigator transit logs, flat roll to see how good of a map you get.
    2nd: Efficient Weapon Distribution, +20 modifier.
    3rd: Heavy Cruisers, +20 modifier.
    4th: Secrets of the machine Spirits, +20 Modifier (Anexa)
    5th: The Workings of a Void Abacus, +20 modifier.
    6th: Organ Replacements, Redux, +20 modifier

    Then I'll be rolling a d100 myself, for Denva's governance of Klyssar's Nest station.

    Edit: Not great. Not terrible, but not great either.
    Neablis threw 1 100-faced dice. Reason: Klyssar Station Total: 16
    16 16
     
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