This suggests war is still the goal, frankly. It also misunderstands the question; it's not about the recon operation, it's about massing forces and sending operations into Hermosan space.
[ ] To demonstrate equivalent capabilities through a show of strength.
Is...more of a balance than I'd like, but I also don't want to tie the hands of a commander on the scene too much.
I disagree. To me, the primary goal of the operations in Hermosan space is to get eyes on what's happening so that we have the freedom to pursue multiple options in the future, with secondary goals of protecting against a probing attack and signalling to Hermosa that we are (hopefully) capable of responding to a provocation and thereby acting as a modest deterrent.
I'm not a fan of showing off our strength, since I think that has potential to harm us. If we do end up in a shooting war, which we might, then we want to surprise the Hermosans with the specific details of how capable we are.
We have no idea if our forces are strong enough to act as a strong deterrent until we do reconnaissance and figure out Hermosa's capabilities. Thus, our current actions are primarily aimed at getting enough information so that we can make an informed choice on our posture.
[X] OPLAN Bulwark
-[X] Patrol Carrier Revisions
--[X]Use some of the excess space to include additional hangar space for two to four SAR craft for pilot retrieval (doubling as ship's boats); if a suitable design can be made at ten tons, good. If not, the larger design should include either medical facilities or emergency low berths in order to ensure wounded pilots can be stabilized during docking / landing procedures.
--[X] Include a fourth recovery deck.
--[X] Include a fourth squadron (giving 3 strike/1 EWAR).
--[X] Revise planned complement of fleet carrier to 6 strike/2 EWAR.
-[X] To attempt to defuse war through a show of strength and to learn more about the Hermosan capabilities and intentions.
-[X] Approve it. There's only so little we can risk.
--[X] Dispatch the diplomatic cruiser on a mission to Plenty to attempt to make second (and more enduring) contact as a part of this expedition, if fuel will allow.
--[X] Dispatch the diplomatic cruiser on a mission to Plenty to attempt to make second (and more enduring) contact as a part of this expedition, if fuel will allow.
[X] OPLAN Bulwark
-[X] Patrol Carrier Revisions
--[X]Use some of the excess space to include additional hangar space for two to four SAR craft for pilot retrieval (doubling as ship's boats); if a suitable design can be made at ten tons, good. If not, the larger design should include either medical facilities or emergency low berths in order to ensure wounded pilots can be stabilized during docking / landing procedures.
--[X] Include a fourth recovery deck.
--[X] Include a fourth squadron (giving 3 strike/1 EWAR).
--[X] Revise planned complement of fleet carrier to 6 strike/2 EWAR.
-[X] To attempt to defuse war through a show of strength and to learn more about the Hermosan capabilities and intentions.
-[X] Approve it. There's only so little we can risk.
--[X] Dispatch the diplomatic cruiser on a mission to Plenty to attempt to make second (and more enduring) contact as a part of this expedition, if fuel will allow.
That's at least 340 more tons—240 for the extra squadron, 100 for the 4th recovery deck, and then some number of tons for the SAR shuttles. I'm not opposed to a bigger carrier, but this goes over the 5500 ton budget we set.
Proposing my own plan, with the extra launch tube:
[X] OPLAN: Switchblade
-[X] Patrol Carrier Revisions
--[X]Use some of the excess space to include additional hangar space for two SAR craft for pilot retrieval (doubling as ship's boats); if a suitable design can be made at ten tons, good. If not, the larger design should include either medical facilities or emergency low berths in order to ensure wounded pilots can be stabilized during docking / landing procedures.
--[X] Include a third launch tube.
--[X] Put any remaining tonnage into armor.
--[X] Revise planned complement of fleet carrier to 6 strike/2 EWAR.
-[X] To attempt to defuse war through a show of strength and to learn more about the Hermosan capabilities and intentions.
-[X] Approve it. There's only so little we can risk.
--[X] Dispatch the diplomatic cruiser on a mission to Plenty to attempt to make second (and more enduring) contact as a part of this expedition, if fuel will allow.
[X] OPLAN: Spyglass
-[X] Patrol Carrier Revisions
--[X]Use some of the excess space to include additional hangar space for two SAR craft for pilot retrieval (doubling as ship's boats); if a suitable design can be made at ten tons, good. If not, the larger design should include either medical facilities or emergency low berths in order to ensure wounded pilots can be stabilized during docking / landing procedures.
--[X] Include a third launch tube.
--[X] Put any remaining tonnage into armor.
--[X] Revise planned complement of fleet carrier to 6 strike/2 EWAR.
-[X] To protect those border systems from probing and to learn about Hermosa's capabilities and intentions in advance of a show of force which will act as a deterrent against conflict
-[X] Approve it. There's only so little we can risk.
--[X] Dispatch the diplomatic cruiser on a mission to Plenty to attempt to make second (and more enduring) contact as a part of this expedition, if fuel will allow.
I'm proposing a variation because I don't think that we can or should make a show of strength just yet. An effective show of strength requires knowing that you're a credible threat to the other side. If not, a threat display by us removes uncertainty about our strength and tells them they can make an aggressive move on us. If we're weaker than the Hermosans, then our best bet is for them to be uncertain about exactly how capable we are.
We have a limited budget for the amount of yard space we have available - 1,354.05MCr gets used up very quickly.
Our current deployments leave absolutely no margin to replace ships that suffer any damage or need routine maintenance in the yards, so I think we need to lay down additional hulls to account for this (Perhaps an argument for a future repair/maintenance anchorage build).
Reviewing what we know about the Hermosan's principle combat ship leads me to the following conclusions: More PD is required. Also, if these missile boats are slow they may be vulnerable to speedy bomber small craft. Their big 8,000 ton ship we know next to nothing about. Presumably it enabled the landing of forces to take over Equus and acts as logistical support for the Broadswords, though with it's size it could still mount sizable armament.
- The Broadsword-class of Hermosan combat ship is a 2,000 ton missile destroyer with 144 principal weapon tubes/launchers. It is expected that they will use nuclear weapons in a combat scenario, unless they have had similar experiences to home. Their drives appear under-sized for the class of vessel and thus they may be relatively slow compared to our line ships (the various CFA-type platforms). This may imply a more defensive style of warfare compared to that which we have been designing for, or simply an inability to build drives of sufficient size.
I've estimated a new frigate cost at approx 215 Mcr each. With x3 new frigates and 2x IC refits that completely uses up the available budget.
This would use 3,500 tons of yard space and leave us with 5,000 tons - which should be more than enough for an escort carrier to be laid down once we get more budget next turn. I think in the short-term getting these smaller escort carriers out quickly will be more valuable than waiting forever for a Fleet Carrier to be completed. As it is, they may not be commissioned in time to factor in to any conflict with Hermosa.
[ ] Plan: Maintain Logistics
-[ ] One launch tube and one recovery deck per squadron.
-[ ] x2 Additional Interstellar Cruiser Refits (355Mcr each, 6 remain)
-[ ] x3 Enhanced frigates using modern technology (500 tons, ?Mcr each)
-[ ] Save some small amount of space for an Escort Carrier.
I'm still undecided on an offensive strike against the Hermosans.
Regarding the Broadsword, there's another possibility for its drives: the Hermosans may be especially good with M-Drive technology, and these could be highly efficient drives rather than undersized ones.
Okay so I've done some deranged maths and here's what I consider the optimal strike approach by our bombers
Pre-burn: The bombers use enough thrust to send themselves on a ballistic trajectory towards the target and switch off - no radiation, no nothing. Maybe some very minor RCS for holding formation.
Burn: The bombers switch on and light their rockets for a 30m 9G burn from 280-300,000km all the way to 150,000km. This is a five turn death dive and you hope there's no interceptors.
Shoot 1: Each bomber fires a missile at the target at 150,000km. They are now travelling at 106,000m/s. Time on target for missile 1 is ~15 minutes.
Shoot 2: Each bomber fires a missile at the target at 65,000km. Time on target for missile 1 is ~9 minutes and for missile 2 is ~8 minutes. Bombers begin a perpendicular burn to evade targets PD range. 9G's applied.
Shoot 3: While under thrust, each bomber fires a missile at the target at 27,500km. This missile will impact inside this turn around the time the Bombers will pass the target. Bombers will fly a closest approach to target of 15,000km, outside short range by 2,500km. Time on target for missile 1 is ~3 minutes and for missile 2 is ~2 minutes.
Post-shoot: Missile 2 impacts, followed by missile 1. Bombers are now moving away from the target.
If anyone can come up with a better or safer bomber approach methodology I would be glad to hear it but I think this gets weapons on target with minimised risk. Thanks to my housemate for helps with the maths.
Is it possible to cold-launch missiles or program engine throttles, so that multiple salvoes arrive simultaneously? Or use a rack or pod system to fire all the missiles at once instead of single shots?
Presumably not, since it would break the missile/PD mechanics wide open.
How viable is it to hold the range open, possibly ducking in and out a bit, to fire multiple salvoes at long range? A skirmishing style rather than this time-on-target barrage.
I think the strike craft would be best off using torpedoes, aside from anti-pirate squadrons who would want multiple shots and less collateral damage, or squadrons in a fighter-bomber role that would want to be able to load fragmentation missiles for intercepting enemy fighters and missiles.
Light strike craft like this don't seem able to take return fire and while we haven't done exercises as far as I can tell to know exactly how vulnerable they are, it seems best to minimise exposure to point defence and things like fragmentation missiles.
Torpedoes would be more destructive if they hit and I believe equally likely to get through defensive fire compared to two missiles, while requiring a much shallower attack run.
Another possibility might be to use a mix of normal-thrust missiles and the high-thrust long range ones to deliver the time-on-target strike with a shallower approach; I don't know how the math would line up and if the range bands would be better, and it would have reduced firepower, but it might improve survivability.
Is it possible to cold-launch missiles or program engine throttles, so that multiple salvoes arrive simultaneously? Or use a rack or pod system to fire all the missiles at once instead of single shots?
Presumably not, since it would break the missile/PD mechanics wide open.
How viable is it to hold the range open, possibly ducking in and out a bit, to fire multiple salvoes at long range? A skirmishing style rather than this time-on-target barrage.
I imagine you could find a way to tot your weapons, the problem is that, like... under burning your last shot means more time for enemy PD grids to respond to those shots, y'know? Multi-fire missile racks do exist - there is specifically a VLS cell in one of the books that must be reloaded in porn that I need to take a look at - and yes they cause issues with the mechanics
The problem with holding the range is that if you're at long enough range that the enemy can't really touch you, or even at the outside of long range, you start to lose missiles in flight to drive failures. This attack path keeps the bomber outside the most lethal range while also placing missiles on target long before their salvo can be reduced while also creating a double strength salvo the turn after the flyby.
Direct combat ships and carriers tend to have opposing design requirements I think. Though a heavy ship carrying a couple squadrons of interceptors to screen against fighters and missiles or pursue ships too small and fast for the heavy guns to hit could happen.
Or strike craft for a ship that used up its hardpoints but still had tonnage and wanted firepower - something big enough to otherwise carry a spinal gun but expecting to fight things too small for the clumsy boomsticks to hit.
I imagine you could find a way to tot your weapons, the problem is that, like... under burning your last shot means more time for enemy PD grids to respond to those shots, y'know? Multi-fire missile racks do exist - there is specifically a VLS cell in one of the books that must be reloaded in porn that I need to take a look at - and yes they cause issues with the mechanics
The problem with holding the range is that if you're at long enough range that the enemy can't really touch you, or even at the outside of long range, you start to lose missiles in flight to drive failures. This attack path keeps the bomber outside the most lethal range while also placing missiles on target long before their salvo can be reduced while also creating a double strength salvo the turn after the flyby.
Thinking somewhat of the Honor Harrington thing they did in the early books before becoming a missile pod spamathon where they'd cold launch a salvo from broadside missile tubes, roll the ship, fire the other side's broadside, and have both salvoes fly in together.
Would it be useful to do the same thing but use the faster long-range missiles for the second salvo, to allow the bombers to start deccelerating earlier?
[X] OPLAN: Spyglass
-[X] Patrol Carrier Revisions
--[X]Use some of the excess space to include additional hangar space for two SAR craft for pilot retrieval (doubling as ship's boats); if a suitable design can be made at ten tons, good. If not, the larger design should include either medical facilities or emergency low berths in order to ensure wounded pilots can be stabilized during docking / landing procedures.
--[X] Include a third launch tube.
--[X] Put any remaining tonnage into armor.
--[X] Revise planned complement of fleet carrier to 6 strike/2 EWAR.
-[X] To protect those border systems from probing and to learn about Hermosa's capabilities and intentions in advance of a show of force which will act as a deterrent against conflict
-[X] Approve it. There's only so little we can risk.
--[X] Dispatch the diplomatic cruiser on a mission to Plenty to attempt to make second (and more enduring) contact as a part of this expedition, if fuel will allow.
This additional tonnage should be used for: Patrol Carrier Revisions What is the goal of these operations for the HSWS? To protect those border systems from probing and to learn about Hermosa's capabilities and intentions in advance of a show of force which will act as a deterrent against conflict. How does the HSWS feel about this mission? Approve it. There's only so little we can risk. Dispatch the diplomatic cruiser on a mission to Plenty to attempt to make second (and more enduring) contact as a part of this expedition, if fuel will allow.
Advanced Drive Layouts - TL 9
Improved Plant Efficiencies - TL 9
Quality Hull Construction - TL 10
High-Density Metals - TL 10
Electronics and Sensors - TL 9
Command and Control systems - TL 9
Enhanced Starship-grade Weapons - TL 9
Available Budget: 4107.03MCr Current Dockyard Usage: 10,000Dtons
Operation Spyglass
A Task Force is assembled in Cassalon, but not a particularly well armed one. Instead the Deep Space Surveyors HSWS Aditi and Tishtrya will be accompanied by the HSLS Bá Kim and the Lakapiti as far as sector '-03 00', 'North' of Equus. There the Task Force will scatter, with Bá Kim heading to Plenty for the start of diplomatic negotiations three years and several months after the initial contact while the Aditi and the Tishtrya head out deeper into un explored space to formulate an even better idea of what awaits us beyond Hermosa. It will takeall of the fuel aboard the Lakipiti and then some to support this mission - 800 tons for its own engines, 400 tons for the Bá Kim and a further 420 tons for the DSS' - and thus the Task Force will also be accompanied by an Interstellar Conveyor for the first leg of the journey into Sector '-02 00'.
The mission will last fourteen weeks, or three and a half months with each DSS spending a month in their target sector, while the diplomatic mission will be afforded up to six weeks on Plenty to produce something approaching results. They depart on 16y00m02w and are expected to return on or around 16y04m00w.
Patrol Carrier
The design for the 'light' capital ship is finalised, a 5,500 dTon carrier with the capacity for three squadrons of 'small' fighters aboard as well as a handful of support craft. It will play host to forty-one small craft, including a crew and marine shuttle, and will carry 194 souls aboard in relative comfort and remarkable safety. Despite giving over a quarter of its total volume to flight handling and control facilities, it still has better armour protection and point defences that most of its peers constructed in HSWS yards. It does not however carry the newly developed reflective coating that would better preserve it against laser fire - it is an expense considered unnecessary given that the armour will already protect it from most threats and concerted laser attack will be met by the carriers escorts.
Alongside this carrier are the three 'carrier fighters' or, more accurately, the three XB-25 pattern multi-role small craft. Twenty-four 25C's, twelve 25D's and four 25E's will make up the full complement, the last four an emergency Search and Rescue craft with two emergency low berths for recovering pilots who have ejected in combat. They trade away almost all other capability for the ability to fit an airlock and a pair of rescue pods. Between these four tiny ships and the shuttle, the carrier should have the capacity to conduct its own SAR operations in the wake of combat.
The pod-like XB-25 alongside the larger F-40
The final cost of a single patrol carrier (including its air wing) is 2,837.595Mcr, with only a third of that figure composing the air wing. It's remarkably cheap compared to some projections, and would allow the HSWS to lay down a single example per year without overrunning its budget. Indeed we currently have a remarkable budget and only 10,000 tons in the yards.
What should the HSWS lay down?
[ ] The first Patrol Carrier (5,500 tons, 2,837.595Mcr)
[ ] Additional Interstellar Cruiser Refits (355Mcr each, 4 remain)
[ ] Another CFA (1280-1490Mcr based on variant)
[ ] Enhanced frigates using modern technology (500 tons, 271Mcr each)
[ ] Other - write in
Cancelling the Apocalypse
Scouting in force does not escalate, but several times recently ship captains have reported potential firing solutions - both in Hermosan and Heimdall space - that they have not taken as they were not fired upon first. They are clearly being baited, the Hermosan platforms coming closer and closer in the hopes of receiving a reason to act. The captains, the task force commander, and the entire chain is asking for clarification: When can they fire?
What are the rules of engagement:
[ ] The ROE is simple - do not fire unless fired upon.
[ ] The ROE is simple - hostile action can be met with fire under defined circumstances
[ ] The ROE is simple - if threatened, the Task Force commander may choose to allow a ship in the combat zone to begin offensive manouvres.
[ ] The first Patrol Carrier (5,500 tons, 2,837.595Mcr)
[ ] Additional Interstellar Cruiser Refits x3 (355Mcr each) [ ] Write in - with ~200Mcr remaining, spend up to 100Mcr to get some space/atmoshepric fighters to be launched from planetary surface, for the further planet defence.
remaining 100Mcr we can keep for the experimental mines, once our "minelayer merchant" would be ready.
though as our basic fighters are ~20 Mcr each, getting 4-5 of them is not very useful. Better leave all the cash for mines and such.
We currently have 8,150t of free dockyard space so we could at most lay down one carrier, two ICs and a frigate or just the carrier with a MDS. The MDS' are a rather cheap and relatively quick to build force multiplier for locations where we want to defend and would also be the most obvious thing to anchor a minefield around so I'd suggest getting another one of those built.
We currently have 8,150t of free dockyard space so we could at most lay down one carrier, two ICs and a frigate or just the carrier with a MDS. The MDS' are a rather cheap and relatively quick to build force multiplier for locations where we want to defend and would also be the most obvious thing to anchor a minefield around so I'd suggest getting another one of those built.
I'd say a second one for Heimdall honestly. And considering the cost and new materials it might be worth investing in an entirely new light cruiser/escort rather than continuing conversions or extending that role to a 2000 ton platform that can replace the ICs on a 2:1 basis to start freeing up pilots.
I think we should focus on building point defence escorts and go for a surprise deep strike against Hermosa itself with the bulk of our fleet as soon as we think we have enough point defence to not make it suicidal. We currently seem to enjoy an advantage in scouting and operational range, but we can't count on that lasting when Hermosa has bigger yards than us and the willingness to take over their neighbours.
If that means we don't have the carrier in time then that's okay. We can have the citizen's council manufacture a casus belli out of liberating Equus or we can just lie and say that Hermosa attacked us first.
If we fight a war, what is the political and strategic objective? To crush Hermosa as a military power? To take colonies/territory? To conquer them entirely? What resources do we have to accomplish those goals? Do we expect those resources to be sufficient? Where would our main effort be and how would we fight the war?
If we're going to fight, we have to consider these questions and plan accordingly.
I think our objective should be to destroy Hermosa's military power. We have our fleet and the mercenaries, the Hermosan fleet is >=15 cruisers +2 "motherships" in size, but it is dispersed. It's quite difficult to work out how many ships we have, but it is more than that. That means that we could potentially concentrate our forces for a deep strike at their infrastructure in Hermosa. Whether we succeed or not will depend on the relative strengths of fleets versus static defenses.
It would be risky, and we'd likely lose ships and take some losses in our static assets in Hexos and Heimdall, but we could potentially evacuate those or just accept the losses.
I think there are two good ways of doing it:
1. Sinone first to potentially misdirect their forces and gain combat experience: threaten Sinone by jumping a large force in (including logistics ships for immediate refuelling) and we try to pin the defenders in a gravity well and hopefully get some of the Hermosan defence fleet to jump towards Sinone, then we jump to Hermosa attack properly and retreat to -2,3 (or, if the defenders in Sinone jump out or put up particularly weak resistance then we can just raid and destroy all of the orbital infrastructure in Sinone before returning to Heimdall).
2. Surprise attack through deep-space sector -2,3: pull forces simultaneously from staging point, Heimdall and Hexos. The defenders at Hermosa will get notice that the garrison at Heimdall is a bit weaker than usual and then less than 60 hours later the bulk of our fleet arrives and starts shooting. The Hermosan fleets at Equus and Sinone will have 1 week of notice that Heimdall is weaker, but we can retreat from Heimdall if we need to, and we can try to do jump-in jump-out raids with single ships or small fleets to encourage them to stay put and defend their orbital infrastructure.
I would hire military advisors or a mercenary admiral from the Aslan to help make up for our lack of experience in interstellar war and our ignorance about Hermosan military capabilities.
Are pilots only required for jump-capable ships? If so, and if we're not able to recruit more pilots from our other neighbours then we should consider investing in jump-tugs or jump-carriers (Heighliners?) like the Hermosans have.
Another way to potentially preserve pilots would be to use large drones for point defence and screening rather than piloted frigates. The drones could be carried on the outside of other combat ships or on specialised carriers for jumps.
Another thing to consider is that because the Hermosans appear to rely on jump-carriers, we may be able to split our forces in ways that their doctrine does not predict (e.g. jumping a fleet in to an enemy system at several different locations to threaten all of their infrastructure at once) We may also be able to strand their fleets by destroying their carriers.
We currently have 8,150t of free dockyard space so we could at most lay down one carrier, two ICs and a frigate or just the carrier with a MDS. The MDS' are a rather cheap and relatively quick to build force multiplier for locations where we want to defend and would also be the most obvious thing to anchor a minefield around so I'd suggest getting another one of those built.
