Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest
- Thread starter 4WheelSword
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- Original Art Quest Sci-Fi
0t4n1z3r019
Member of the HAFPTG
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[X] OPLAN: Dawn Patrol
Doubloon
Quelle horreur!
That's a fair thing to point out. Amended!
EDIT: I should probably try to explain my misgivings with Dawn Patrol. Regarding (-01 02), I don't want to tie our hands with the Prime Directive when we don't even know what their deal is. If they're post-apocalyptic like I suspect, we'd be committing to not offer them any kind of help. About Nova Refugio, I really wanna insist on getting their story. Sending an envoy is a good idea, but I don't think they can stay long-term until we establish a rapport and figure out where they'd be living!
TLDR; if Coyote's "PC" is an officer for the Multispectrum Warfare Office, mine probably works for the Intelligence Branch.
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Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
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Hm. I mostly like Dawn Patrol but I'm somewhat skeptical of how...Prime-Directive-y its handling of the unknown population is. Like, even leaving aside any possible question of self-interest, should we not at least try to e.g. share medical developments that they haven't yet figured out (assuming they turn out to be human, or close enough for the same principles to apply)?
I'm not oppossed to learning about them from stealth. At the beginning of the Quest we've build our explorer small and tried to hide our jumps, perhaps its time to invest in proper stealth techniques. That said, waiting for them develop on their own and not contacting them until then is either wasteful or harmful. Afterall all, in all likelyhood those are fellow humans.
Coyote Niff
the most transbian obligate scavenger on the 'net!
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This is just our first steps; I'm setting an arbitrary bar in the present that we can remove in future for exactly the reasons I think it's prudent in real contact: response from the contactees might not be positive, and more importantly, we don't want to give them all a horrible space disease for which they have no resistances. Funnily enough, I was trying to avoid the Prime Directive, as I think it's silly to not help people, but I also don't want to go blundering in until we know more. Ergo, a "simple" plan that's easily modified-leave when they achieve spaceflight, but make it clear we were there, and meant no harm.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
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Ah, my read was that the ban was intended to be fixed until spaceflight, which uh...is probably going to be quite a lot longer than it'll take us to gather quite a lot of information indeed. If it's something that we're expecting to possibly rescind based on further data (and if, ideally, the plan could be modified to reflect that explicitly) then yeah, I'd certainly be on board with an initially cautious approach.
[X] OPLAN: Dawn Patrol
With the comments that this isn't a hard bar, I'm more supportive. I'd prefer if it were worded more vaguely to give us some latitude, but I'm generally in favour of being hands-off there. Nova Refugio seems to be the most important short-term item - it's the closest to us, the population's about to go extinct, and they're talking about an unknown enemy.
With the comments that this isn't a hard bar, I'm more supportive. I'd prefer if it were worded more vaguely to give us some latitude, but I'm generally in favour of being hands-off there. Nova Refugio seems to be the most important short-term item - it's the closest to us, the population's about to go extinct, and they're talking about an unknown enemy.
4-4: The Departed
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
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- It/She/They
What would the Navy like from -0202?
- To aim to establish a fuelling operation for outgoing Naval missions.
- To aim to support a civilian outpost in the sector.
What would the Navy like from -0102?
- To survey and assess the anomalous body in the system.
- Establish long-term "hands off" studies of the unknown populations on 01:02's inhabited world, with an absolute bar on any kind of contact - If they establish space flight, leave a first contact beacon and retreat until we receive a response.
What would the Navy like from Nova Refugio?
- To survey and assess the anomalous body in the system.
- Establish a diplomatic presence on Nova Refugio, but make no aims or demands at this time; we must build trust.
The Tentacles of Progress
With new space, new planets, new orbits discovered it is only so long before the oligarchs leading our society turn their eyes on discovering new riches. If merchants - and there are now at least nine recorded and flagged interstellar vessels operating outside the purview of the HSWS (one of which is flagged as a vessel out of Cassalon) - are to transit to the uninhabited system, they will require a waystation at the deep space rock that is quickly becoming referred to as 'Staging Point'. Civilian corporations are already pushing for a reduced size version of the Deep Hope Station to act as a waypoint at Staging Point, a two-module customs station-cum-fuelling depot. It would look as follows:
What is the navies opinion of this?
[ ] If the Navy must support civilian enterprise in order to expand its own capabilities, that is a price we must pay.
[ ] We cannot afford this as the next part of our construction program. We will put it on the back burner.
[ ] Why should we pay for civilian construction? No.
Speaking of designations, should -0202 be named?
[ ] Name it Heimdall, after the lost ship.
[ ] Name it Xuan Phan, after the captain of the Heimdall.
[ ] Name it something else - write in.
[ ] Maintain the current numbering.
Meanwhile, four ships depart on another mission. HSWS Lakapati, HSWS Culsans, HSWS Aditi, and HSWS Tishtrya depart Home on 05y10m00w, after several weeks of leave for the crew and minor repairs and refits for the ships. As the third and fourth segments of the Deep Hope Modular Station are shipped 'North', these four ships head 'South' with a complex mission tasking (though far less complex than that of Operation Southern View). They are to be away for eight weeks, returning on or around the 6th anniversary of the establishment of our Navy Day, and will hopefully return with significant new information for us.
Lakapati is going to spend the next two months sitting in the empty 00,01 sector, doing nothing but waiting for her charges to come home. Meanwhile, HSWS Aditi will be scanning the anomalous body in -01,02 and performing long range, deep range scans of the inhabited body to assess the nature of the population there. HSWS Tishtrya will be conducting her own survey of the anomalous body in Nova Refugia before moving to support HSWS Culsans in conducting a diplomatic meet and greet with the inhabitants of the main world of Nova Refugia.
The four ships jump away, on time and in formation, and we can no more affect the course of their operations than the stars can stop spinning.
The yards are currently at 6,900/8,000 tons capacity, and in the next two months will complete another 900 tons of construction. What should these 2,000 tons be used for?
[ ] System upgrades for the Interstellar Surveyor - better sensors, upgraded weapons, improved space utilisation.
[ ] An Interstellar Cruiser (1,000 tons)
[ ] A Deep Space Surveryor (500 tons)
[ ] An Interstellar Surveyor (700 tons)
[ ] A smaller fleet logistics ship.
[ ] A small, long range escort of some kind.
[ ] Something else - write in.
Please present any votes as a plan. Voting opens at
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Docking infrastructure of just 1K? That's not enough. Our tanker is 4K. The Lancer is expected to be between 3K to 4K as well. This handles ICs, scouts and conveyors, but won't be of much use when deploying larger fleets. Despite that, overall we want for the majority of space development to be done in the background, with us handling just the big-ticket items.
[ ] If the Navy must support civilian enterprise in order to expand its own capabilities, that is a price we must pay.
As much as I've got the name I want to use for it, Machadamia, naming the system can wait until we learn what the anomalous readings are and how do the locals call themselves.
[ ] Maintain the current numbering.
We're building a DSS at the moment, if be build another one we'll have two pairs of two. Plus, our first ship could use an overhaul to specialize it some more for follow-up surveys. I don't think it needs outright weapons, but better sensors, more labs space or perhaps even a bit of passanger room could be useful.
[ ] A Deep Space Surveryor (500 tons)
[ ] System upgrades for the Interstellar Surveyor - better sensors, upgraded weapons, improved space utilisation.
EDIT:
[ ] If the Navy must support civilian enterprise in order to expand its own capabilities, that is a price we must pay.
As much as I've got the name I want to use for it, Machadamia, naming the system can wait until we learn what the anomalous readings are and how do the locals call themselves.
[ ] Maintain the current numbering.
We're building a DSS at the moment, if be build another one we'll have two pairs of two. Plus, our first ship could use an overhaul to specialize it some more for follow-up surveys. I don't think it needs outright weapons, but better sensors, more labs space or perhaps even a bit of passanger room could be useful.
[ ] A Deep Space Surveryor (500 tons)
[ ] System upgrades for the Interstellar Surveyor - better sensors, upgraded weapons, improved space utilisation.
EDIT:
Sweet! It's an impressive rate of growth.
Yeah, that shouldn't be happening. Lakapati is important and vulnerable, it should always deploy with Interstellar Cruisers as escorts.
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2nd Generation Ships of Home
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
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Did you know if you're not a subscriber, you can only add 20 images to a post? Annoying.
Deep Space Surveyor
Interstellar Monitor
Multi-Mission Vehicle
Corvette, Fast Courier
Cruiser, Fast Attack
Frigate, Fleet Escort
Interstellar Cruiser block III
Frigate, Fleet Escort flight II
Patrol Carrier
Cruiser, Fast Attack - Post-Treaty
Military Assault Transport
Deep Space Surveyor
Interstellar Monitor
Multi-Mission Vehicle
Corvette, Fast Courier
Cruiser, Fast Attack
Frigate, Fleet Escort
Interstellar Cruiser block III
Frigate, Fleet Escort flight II
Patrol Carrier
Cruiser, Fast Attack - Post-Treaty
Military Assault Transport
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MordredRaal
Agitating
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- She/They
[] Plan: A More Pleasant Future
-[ ] If the Navy must support civilian enterprise in order to expand its own capabilities, that is a price we must pay.
-[ ] Name it Heimdall, after the lost ship.
-[ ] A purpose built diplomatic ship, equipped for long stays in foreign systems
Aka building our first ship that doesn't suck to serve on. And making interstellar diplomacy *slightly* less jank
-[ ] If the Navy must support civilian enterprise in order to expand its own capabilities, that is a price we must pay.
-[ ] Name it Heimdall, after the lost ship.
-[ ] A purpose built diplomatic ship, equipped for long stays in foreign systems
Aka building our first ship that doesn't suck to serve on. And making interstellar diplomacy *slightly* less jank
Ah, yes, it slipped my mind that we were supposed to built a diplomatic transport as well. I think we could keep it within 1K so it's able to use all docking infrastructure and put the rest of our yard space into doing surveyor refits? 1K should be enough for it to carry numerous passangers, plus some storage room and a small conference room.
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
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Voting is long since open, just so all are aware.
All right, in that case:
[X] Plan Civilian
-[X] If the Navy must support civilian enterprise in order to expand its own capabilities, that is a price we must pay.
-[X] Name it Heimdall, after the lost ship.
-[X] Write-In: Purpose-built ship for diplomats at 1K tonnes. 2 jumps. Optimize for carrying personnel and for long stays in foreign systems. Include a conference room and small storage space. Minimal defensive weapons. Compromise on speed.
-[X] The remaining yard space is assigned for an Interstellar Surveyor refit, including better sensors and improved space utilization with an overall goal of performing detailed follow-up system scans.
If we feel there's a need for a name I can edit the plan to include it, but overall I think we'll get to choose a more fitting name after we get more observation data from -02+02. EDIT: Wrong system.
[X] Plan Civilian
-[X] If the Navy must support civilian enterprise in order to expand its own capabilities, that is a price we must pay.
-[X] Name it Heimdall, after the lost ship.
-[X] Write-In: Purpose-built ship for diplomats at 1K tonnes. 2 jumps. Optimize for carrying personnel and for long stays in foreign systems. Include a conference room and small storage space. Minimal defensive weapons. Compromise on speed.
-[X] The remaining yard space is assigned for an Interstellar Surveyor refit, including better sensors and improved space utilization with an overall goal of performing detailed follow-up system scans.
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Coyote Niff
the most transbian obligate scavenger on the 'net!
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[X] Plan Civilian.
Sounds great to me-as long as I can use our next big yard push for Lancers and Bodkins.
That's right, the Quarrel concept is already getting a Dog model. Eventually I will run out of model letters, or it will get built.
Sounds great to me-as long as I can use our next big yard push for Lancers and Bodkins.
That's right, the Quarrel concept is already getting a Dog model. Eventually I will run out of model letters, or it will get built.
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
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-0102 is the sector with population. -0202 is 2 gas giants and a bunch of rocks.
I dunno about compromising the defences of the diplo ship. Might be better to have 1k as the limit instead of target in case we can get the target goal on a smaller hull.
While I agree the surveyor should be better at scans, I suggest the goals of its refit should be, firstly droptank fittings for longer range, second improved and modernised defensive armament for its role as a first-in scout into potentially hostile systems, and survey third. Also the Culsans should be refitted as well since it is obsoleted by the DSS.
Having looked at the stats I think using the deep space surveyors for gatecrashing is a bad idea.
Hmm, a thought related to gatecrashing and scouting, especially in hostile territory: what is the limiting factor for how quickly a ship with a Warp Drive can do consecutive jumps? Could a hypothetical ship with two separate Warp Drives jump into a system and jump back out a few seconds later?
Ooops. It doesn't make sense to wait in that case. All right then guys, what name do we choose? Heimdall? Xuan Phan? Machadamia? I'll rewrite the plan to do Heimdall for the time being.
We ought to have some defenses, but in the end it's not a combat vessel. If it finds itself in active combat it should be jumping ASAP.
The way I see it, is that Deep Space Surveyors make the initial pass and then Interstellar Surveyors come and do more detailed and long-term analyses.
Interesting question. The main problem with that is there would be no way to use active sensors, since there wouldn't be enough time.
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