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Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest

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In theory, if we built sufficient defense stations / anchorages, we could turn the outer orbitals into our own base and essentially occupy the system.

We may want to revisit our diplomatic teams on the other two worlds to see if we can get any information out of them.
 
Okay, I am...deeply unclear on the sequence of events here. Did we not at any point during our "blockade" attempt to communicate with Menorb? Did they simultaneously refuse to speak with us and interpret the "blockade" as unprovoked hostile action by an otherwise friendly power (which, y'know, would seem like cause to actively reach out and ask what the fuck is going on)? Are they claiming that we didn't try to speak with them when we actually did (suggesting comms interference and/or blatant lying)?
 
Rat King said:
In theory, if we built sufficient defense stations / anchorages, we could turn the outer orbitals into our own base and essentially occupy the system.

We may want to revisit our diplomatic teams on the other two worlds to see if we can get any information out of them.
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Agreed on both points. However, I worry that an attritional strategy against Menorb might not be a good choice; we should try and see if it's possible to pressure them back into being neutral.

Wiadi said:
Okay, I am...deeply unclear on the sequence of events here. Did we not at any point during our "blockade" attempt to communicate with Menorb? Did they simultaneously refuse to speak with us and interpret the "blockade" as unprovoked hostile action by an otherwise friendly power (which, y'know, would seem like cause to actively reach out and ask what the fuck is going on)? Are they claiming that we didn't try to speak with them when we actually did (suggesting comms interference and/or blatant lying)?
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It hasn't been mentioned. It may be that we simply never reached out.
 
Wiadi said:
@4WheelSword can you please clarify, then? This seems like extremely relevant information.
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Both Vice-Marshalls Gebara and Omarov attempted to make contact with Menorb and both were stonewalled.
This:
The government of Menorb, though previously friendly to the HSWS, now considers them trespassers and aggressors.
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Is the position of Menorb for the past few months, at least since Omarov arrived in the system.
 
They consider us aggressors when our ships were ambushed in their system? Given their tech level I suppose they could be ignorant, but two of our ships surrendered, and one was towed by the enemy, and they didn't question it? I find it likely that they are a vassal state to whatever entity has been attacking us.
 
Well, a containment operation to push back the enemy seems to be basically what our previous stated strategy was. Menorb's government seems to be intractably hostile to us so another look at what we know of them. They are listed as a impersonal bureaucracy with a law level of 8. We rather clearly cannot occupy them by force given their population is two magnitudes larger than ours.

Inthe has multiple states on its surface without a single governing body but appeared to be harmonious. They have a law level of 6 and a population similar to Homes.

Natoko is ruled by a charismatic dictator that enjoys the confidence of its citizens with a law level of B (11) which entails rigid control of its civilian movements. They have a similar population to Menorb.

Notably unless these government codes are lying to us, none of them are the one for a captive government/colony.
 
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So, after a bit of math, some comments on the feasibility of modular stations
  • I'm designing around a standardized 2,600 ton module. This is because a Modular Conveyor can carry 3000 tons and requires 400 tons of jump fuel, so it'll be capable of jumping in, leaving the station section, and jumping out (or vice versa). If everything uses the same hull geometry, then we can apply the standardization savings.
  • If we pick a hull geometry that is an extrusion of a shape which tesselates (e.g., triangular prisms), then we could make large stations by docking 2,600 ton "cells" together. I'm picking triangular prisms, which means each cell needs 3 Type V docking ports (a modest inefficiency, but it allows for easy future growth).
  • These are heavily reliant on virtual crew. Virtual crew don't suffer from the same fatigue issues, they take up no space, they require no supplies, and we end up saving on things like radiation shielding and artificial gravity. Some front-facing roles in the R&R cell are staffed by people, but for the most part, I've pared things down, and that seems to be optimal from both a money and tonnage point of view.
  • Things were scaled pretty arbitrarily between the production per day and the ability to store goods. This could change.
  • I've assumed that this is in a worst-case scenario system without a gas giant to get fuel from. As such, I'm using ramscoop tenders to produce fuel; each 750 ton unmanned tender costs 71 MCr and can refuel a CFA's jump tanks every week (or, alternately, five tenders can refuel the jump and plant tanks of four CFAs every week). If we're orbiting a gas giant, there's cheaper options.
  • If there are rules for matching the mineral refinery's output to the manufacturing facility, I'd suggest that the two be combined and scaled appropriately; IMO the cargo capacity of them is generally excessive. Since our raw materials are functionally free (steal an asteroid) and operating costs are negligible and fixed, there's little reason to not run the production facilities at full tilt and store the unneeded products until we either need it or sell it, which means we don't need much in the way of storage for intermediate materials. This would be more economical than splitting the two up as I have done.
  • Fun fact, the advanced manufacturing facility would pay for itself in about 2-3 years if we sold the end products.
The cells ended up being, in rough order of priority:
  • R&R Facility - this lets crews work off fatigue. I threw as many luxuries as I could on it, with the exception of sticking to High Staterooms instead of Luxury Staterooms (since those are absurdly palatial). Cost is 567 MCr, and it's capable of supporting 200 off-duty HSWS personnel.
  • Fuel Tankage - this is just the "standard" frame, docking ports, power plant, etc.; it can carry 2380 tons of fuel and costs 121 MCr.
  • Mineral refinery & smelter - this produces 100 tons of common raw materials and 50 tons of uncommon raw materials out of asteroids that are fed to it every week. It has enough cargo capacity to store 13 weeks of production. It costs 361 MCr.
  • Advanced manufacturing facility - this takes raw materials and turns them into 70 tons advanced weapons, vehicles, and the like every week (so I assume it can be said to cover the military supplies, spacecraft ammunition, and the like we need for operations). It also has 30 weeks' production of cargo capacity. It costs 310 MCr.
  • Hangar - this allows for repairs of 1190 tons of small craft, and for the ramscoop tenders to dock internally if they need serious repairs. They are, surprisingly, the most expensive of the lot, costing 597 MCr.
 
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Yay more mystifying bullshit opaque reactions from factions towards us! When can we just gunship diplomacy people instead of working with them? Since it seems to be working better for everyone else using it then cooperation is for us in these situations.
 
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4WheelSword said:
That's been it.
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... what's been it? As of Omarov's arrival, the occupation in question obviously could not yet have occurred, so what did they actually accuse us of doing at that time? One presumes they would specify if they wanted us to stop doing it.
 
It's very obvious in my opinion that the Menorb government is either,

1. Extremely isolationist or otherwise xenophobic, which may explain the refusal to communicate and assumption of hostilities
or
2. Controlled by or in some comparable relationship with the stealth ships and trying to deceive us

I'm leaning more towards the latter, but either way diplomacy is most likely going to be impossible and was doomed from the start
 
Roaming_Guardian said:
Can we at some point start giving our ships class names?
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I'll ask again the next time we update. Previously people have been content with the designations.

Wiadi said:
... what's been it? As of Omarov's arrival, the occupation in question obviously could not yet have occurred, so what did they actually accuse us of doing at that time? One presumes they would specify if they wanted us to stop doing it.
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No I mean, literally, communication has been at an absolute minimum and ever since Omarov got there it's been "fuck off, get out of our system, we're not talking to you".
 
I'm informed that part of the issue is that Menorbs' government doesn't seem to currently have a logic to their actions based on available information. Consider: Half of this game has been about making decisions with insufficient information. Just because their current position seems illogical on the face of it doesn't necessarily mean that it is an illogical position. It might simply mean that you don't have all the required data to reach a conclusion.
 
So... this is not good.

1. Menorb is unwilling to talk.

2. We do not have the force projection necessary to occupy the surface of Menorb. Building a few more troop transports won't change that.

3. So long as surface forces on Menorb are hostile, they'll keep launching missiles at us.

4. Orbital bombardment until they stop launching missiles is rather... killpeoply. I assume we don't intend to ditch the Articles of War the moment we get into an armed conflict.

5. The one advantage we have in this situation is that Menorb is running on 1980s tech. Even if they've captured our ships, they won't be able to reverse-engineer anything capable of challenging us within the next few years, at least.

Seems like ignoring Menorb and moving on to Inthe and Natoko would be the best option, if it wasn't for them holding our spacers hostage. I don't think another attempt at talking to them would help either, though.
 
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So far, Inthe and Natoko have not been hostile but I would recommend following up with the diplomatic teams we left there to try and get information or sway them on-side.

We will need to secure at least one of these systems, maybe all three, if we're going to initiate a campaign beyond them. So our next operation should be a diplomatic and military blitz to get our prisoners back from Menorb (if they're still there) and secure it's orbitals (if not).
 
Rat King said:
So far, Inthe and Natoko have not been hostile but I would recommend following up with the diplomatic teams we left there to try and get information or sway them on-side.

We will need to secure at least one of these systems, maybe all three, if we're going to initiate a campaign beyond them. So our next operation should be a diplomatic and military blitz to get our prisoners back from Menorb (if they're still there) and secure it's orbitals (if not).
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I'm unsure if there's anything in orbit left to secure? From the update all stations were either destroyed by the Menorb forces (Menorbians?) themselves or occupied by the FLF.
 
Boss Tweed said:
I'm unsure if there's anything in orbit left to secure? From the update all stations were either destroyed by the Menorb forces (Menorbians?) themselves or occupied by the FLF.
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Well, we then left, so we will presumably need to go back with intent of a longer term orbital occupation. And maybe set up our own stations in the outer orbitals to ensure we can maintain a fleet in place and support a logistical push.
 
4WheelSword said:
communication has been at an absolute minimum and ever since Omarov got there it's been "fuck off, get out of our system, we're not talking to you".
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That seems like pretty important information and quite different from what I assumed was total radio silence. Maybe the real communication problem is between HSWS command and the expeditionary flotilla..
 
Well, the salient issue at hand is that Menorb is unwilling to talk to us.
What can we do to make them willing to talk to us?

We can try to get some intermediaries - since Menorb has well-used spaceport, they probably have some contact with their neighbours. If we can persuade governments of Inthe or/and Natoko to mediate for us, we can probably get the Menorbans talking.

The next issue - we saw the stealth ships in their systems too. Meaning, that we would need to either abandon Menorb and move into other system in force, or to split the fleet and take a risk of engagement with having less ships.

Though I think we can do it, we have carrier +2 more aslan ships around menorb/deeper hope, we probably can split this fleet - or scrap some more reinforcements and split then.
 
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