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Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest

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Night said:
Boy it sure would be a shame if the Technocrats, who desperately desire to go to space, recovered a space-capable shuttle and became independently capable of reaching orbit.
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We passed on supporting Technocrats some upgrades ago. Besides, it might've been Technocrats who downed the shuttle. I would advise against contacting them.

For me, the preferred choice is sticking to the plan. We wanted the war to play out, so let's see it unfold. If we do change our mind, then at least let it not be for free.
 
Magnificate said:
We passed on supporting Technocrats some upgrades ago. Besides, it might've been Technocrats who downed the shuttle. I would advise against contacting them.
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And they might take our armed neutrality as support of the dictatorship, which, honestly, it isn't meant to be. This would be a gesture to establish that we do mean we are neutral, whereas an armed strike to recover the shuttle would pretty much establish the opposite.
 
I regret not making a more concrete choice in my prior plan at this point, but I don't know if the situation is recoverable.
 
Magnificate said:
Hard to verify who dug the graves and when, but for the time being that's a clear minus for the Republicans.
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I would not even go that far. We have no way to know if this was Republicans or a Dictatorship false flag. The former is very much possible, since they immediately after asked us to intervene on their side.

I think we should investigate these mass graves. Could we try to set up a neutral zone for refugees somewhere? If we are a humanitarian mission, we should act like that. We should also call in some Interstellar Conveyors with relief supplies for civilians, like we did in S'Taxu.
 
I think we can still leverage our orbital control to get a ceasefire, if we really want to, but that will definitely piss off the dictatorship. We should certainly investigate the killings to see what's what and I think we could probably propose a ceasefire and the establishment of peacekeepers.

We have the orbitals; we can cut off their advanced supplies. We do risk pissing people off, but the alternative is letting this continue and I'm not sure I want to do that.

I am also in favor of ratifying rules of war along the lines of "no nuclear weapons used in-atmo, no bombardment of dome cities, etc."

I'd see if we can negotiate a rescue mission or just get the Technocracy to snag it for us, with a hard an fast smash and grab mission on our own as a backup.
 
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[X] We should conduct research into the deaths and attempt to collate evidence of crimes.

We exist to serve the interests of Home (more accurately her leaders). Until we have a mandate to intervene, we should not do so. However, more information is generally better. The lives of a few operatives are a relatively small risk for leverage.

[X] Force an FLF landing to recover casualties and equipment.

With that said, we must do what we can for those in the service of Home. Loyalty is longest-lived when it is mutual. Someone already shot down our shuttle so I don't want to go through diplomatic channels - someone is already playing with us and they will likely just use negotations to delay us whilst moving their plans further forward. Show people we aren't to be toyed with, and then get the hell off this accursed planet.

[X] Other - We should hold a conference for those within our sphere of Influence to send delegates to. Of course Home shall send the most delegates but this matter must be something all have worked upon if it is to hold water.

EDIT: At this point I do genuinely feel non-intervention is best. Our lack of involvement remains a sword of damocles over any who would consider dome-cracking or the use of in-atmos. nukes. If we get involved, our role as arbiter becomes deeply questionable.
 
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If there are mass killings going on, our staying out means more of them are going to happen. We have the most firepower in the system right now, except for perhaps the Aslan.

I can't in good conscience advocate for total non-involvement.
 
Pinniped said:
We should also call in some Interstellar Conveyors with relief supplies for civilians, like we did in S'Taxu.
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Do we have those available? We're supporting two humanitarian missions, with one of them five jumps from Home.
Rat King said:
I think we can still leverage our orbital control to get a ceasefire, if we really want to, but that will definitely piss off the dictatorship.
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Not just the Dictatorship. The Republicans will be pissed off that we held off until now and the we get the ire of the Aslan from interrupting their contract.
Rat King said:
We have the orbitals; we can cut off their advanced supplies.
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Won't work, because Aslan have transport capabilities.
Lukepop said:
Until we have a mandate to intervene, we should not do so.
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Agreed.

As for the Rules of War, I wouldn't be setting those while the war is still ongoing. But, once the war is over we can indeed invite Cassalon and Xyri winners for a conference and negotiate something suitable.

[X] Plan Take No Sides
-[X] We should conduct research into the deaths and attempt to collate evidence of crimes.
-[X] Force an FLF landing to recover casualties and equipment.
-[X] Tri-partite conference regarding Rules of War should be conducted after the war in Xyri is over.
 
Just to remind everyone, last time we intervened in an ongoing conflict with orbital strikes it turned out we betted on the wrong horse, alienating the parties with most to offer and ending up with a less than useful ally. We also learned after the fact that we may have hit civilian targets by mistake. So yes, this time I would really prefer to do some investigation and intelligence work to learn more before we involve ourselves. We have an intelligence branch now, time to use it.

I would really like trying to establish some refugee zone or camp either in orbit or on the ground. Such a humanitarian mission would give us contacts with the locals, which would help with intelligence work and figuring out what actually is going on.
 
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Rat King said:
Aslan also agreed not to act against HSWS operations/ships.
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Let us have a look at our agreement with the Aslan:
4WheelSword said:
Take no contracts aimed at the HSWS or targeting HSWS facilities or personnel. Corporate espionage and war making is, of course, well within the remit of these soldiery.
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There's nothing here about HSWS operations, so as long as Aslan don't shoot at us while establishing a supply route to their contractors is within the rules. At least, I'd argue that if I was an Aslan lawyer.
 
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[X] OPLAN: High Ground
-[X] We should conduct research into the deaths and attempt to collate evidence of crimes; "encourage" a general ceasefire until our investigation is complete to avoid additional massacres on either side. Work with both sides to at least establish "no-fire" zones for refugees.
-[X] Request the Technocrats recover the downed shuttle and return it.
-[X] We should come to an agreement and expect our allies to ratify it!

Not a perfect plan by my thoughts, but I would appreciate additional input on it.
 
[X] Plan Take No Sides
-[X] We should conduct research into the deaths and attempt to collate evidence of crimes.
-[X] Force an FLF landing to recover casualties and equipment.
-[X] Tri-partite conference regarding Rules of War should be conducted after the war in Xyri is over.
 
Rat King said:
"encourage" a general ceasefire until our investigation is complete to avoid additional massacres on either side.
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What's the follow-up if our encouragement is rejected? The Dictatorship has no incentive to pause, to the public opinion the moral high ground is on their side and the war is going favourably for them.
Rat King said:
-[X] Request the Technocrats recover the downed shuttle and return it.
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What's the reason for trusting the Technocrats? Remember, there was no response for our request to land and recover the shuttle ourselves. Without boots on the ground we'll make ourselves reliant on Technocrats and their intel.
Rat King said:
-[X] We should come to an agreement and expect our allies to ratify it!
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Unexpected. I'm OK with dictating terms, but I wouldn't be doing it while the war is ongoing.
 
Magnificate said:
What's the follow-up if our encouragement is rejected? The Dictatorship has no incentive to pause, to the public opinion the moral high ground is on their side and the war is going favourably for them.
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The incentive is the fact we have complete control of the orbitals and can annihilate their army from orbit if we really want to. :V

What's the reason for trusting the Technocrats? Remember, there was no response for our request to land and recover the shuttle ourselves. Without boots on the ground we'll make ourselves reliant on Technocrats and their intel.
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It's an attempt at outreach first. And right now we're reliant on the Dictatorship, Republicans, and Technocrats for any on-ground intel as it is.
 
Magnificate said:
I'd call our bluff. Remember, we've stated that the line is drawn at using nuclear weapons and dome-cracking. If we were intent on preventing all massacres, why wouldn't we say so from the beginning?
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They were the ones who called us down to say the massacre was so horrible it meant we should intervene and drop ortillery on the Republicans.

We are intervening, just not in the way they would like, probably. :V
 
[X] OPLAN Guardian Eye
-[X] We should conduct research into the deaths and attempt to collate evidence of crimes.
-[X] Force an FLF landing to recover casualties and equipment.
-[X] We should come to an agreement and expect our allies to ratify it!
Space Warfare Counterintelligence Directorate Surveillance Worm Recovery File 930-8f (dated y12m02w02):

[SWCD INTERNAL PROBES 27-28, MWO CENTRAL OFFICE-SECURE COMMS FACILITY, MAJ. NOVOHAL, L.-AUDIOVISUAL SURVEILLANCE]

<subject enters view of cambug 27 carrying FLASH-marked diplomatic pouch, unsealed. Visible files inside same indicate successful MWO receipt of latest MIC reports on Xyri situation, marked under filename XYCON. Subject activates video-based secure comms call-up program-surveillance worms in MWO datanet log a channel marked for Home Primary Command Council under General Meers.>


[LN]: General, I'm sending this along as a vidmail because I feel it's crucial. We cannot allow another Cassalon crisis on Xyri, nor can we appear as though we are allowing further war crimes of the type the Xyrian central government has claimed to uncover. We must land a significant demilitarization force in the sectors where these crimes have been committed and dig into them until we hit mantle. Please find attached to this message my personal data logs of rescue and support operations on S'taxu. Take a long look at those people-at their faces, at their wounds. We can't let this happen again. Moreover, should our office's proposal take effect, I and members of my staff previously deployed to Cassalon place ourselves at the PCC's total disposal.

<subject takes a notable pause of around 30 seconds, idly running fingers along the edges of the XYCON reports.>

[LN]: Finally, I'd like to request the MWO office retain an official Military Intelligence Liaison. Perhaps Colonel Bloch, of Counterintelligence? I've heard only good things.

<Surveillance worm logs message termination, and subject moves to exit the room, passing under cambug 28, mounted above the outer door. Subject makes eye contact with cambug for ~3 seconds elapsed-likely a coincidence, but retrieval and re-placing of cambugs to prevent discovery is ordered ASAP.>

Report terminated-Col. Bloch, MIC-SWCD.
 
[X] OPLAN Guardian Eye
-[X] We should conduct research into the deaths and attempt to collate evidence of crimes.
-[X] Force an FLF landing to recover casualties and equipment.
-[X] We should come to an agreement and expect our allies to ratify it!
 
[X] OPLAN Guardian Eye
-[X] We should conduct research into the deaths and attempt to collate evidence of crimes.
-[X] Force an FLF landing to recover casualties and equipment.
-[X] We should come to an agreement and expect our allies to ratify it!
 
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