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Transposition, or: Ship Happens [Worm/Aoki Hagane no Arpeggio | Arpeggio of Blue Steel]

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She calls herself the Relentless that is a Royal Navy name if I ever heard one.
She could be a Vanguard or King George V.

Or if we go balls to the walls silly paper designs.
HMS Incomparable, six 508mm (twenty-inch) guns or N-3 nine 457mm (18'') guns.
Or more pedestrian G-3 the USS Iowa twenty years before Iowa was a thing.
 
First, I find nothing wrong about an author who wants World War II ship that can tank nukes and shoot lasers. He is the author and unless he is getting paid to write something else, he has full freedom to do whatever he wants with the story.

Second, it takes a long time to design a new ship that works in the real world. Even with Taylor's super brain, she would have to spend quite a while coming up with new ideas that might seem good on paper, but don't work in real combat environments. The ships of World War II, while older models, are War Ships that have proven they can fight in a world war conflict. Just swap out regular ammunition with lasers and modern missiles, and you are ready to go.

I might be oversimplifying that, but you get the idea.
 
Could make a a ship into what ever style you like even the guns a certain way but make the internals, especially all the stuff that releases the DAKKAA!, into modern versions?
 
John Tarsitano said:
Second, it takes a long time to design a new ship that works in the real world. Even with Taylor's super brain, she would have to spend quite a while coming up with new ideas that might seem good on paper, but don't work in real combat environments. The ships of World War II, while older models, are War Ships that have proven they can fight in a world war conflict. Just swap out regular ammunition with lasers and modern missiles, and you are ready to go.

I might be oversimplifying that, but you get the idea.
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It doesn't really work like that. They are effective designs in their context with their functionality. Strip those away and you do need to rethink the design because the important factors have changed. The combat Relentless is likely to face will have little to no resemblance to that era of combat (outside of possibly the target's political beliefs) so different designs are likely to be favoured as she engages with entirely different targets with entirely different weapons and defenses.

I see no issue with the the author writing them as WWII ships but that shouldn't be done under the guise of them being proven designs because that doesn't make sense.
 
MWKillKenny84 said:
I on the other hand vote for Taylor to mantain the AoBS theme of WWII ships.

Why? Because even if she's a human consciousness controlling a gynormous mass of FoF!NANOMACHINES SON!, it does not change that she's a human fighting for Humanity's survival (give it time).

So, Human Designs Only are a must!
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I never said that she shouldn't and I hope that she'll make AIs who will take command and refurbish the ships on the ship graveyard. And have Taylor as the literal AI city.
 
John Tarsitano said:
First, I find nothing wrong about an author who wants World War II ship that can tank nukes and shoot lasers. He is the author and unless he is getting paid to write something else, he has full freedom to do whatever he wants with the story.

Second, it takes a long time to design a new ship that works in the real world. Even with Taylor's super brain, she would have to spend quite a while coming up with new ideas that might seem good on paper, but don't work in real combat environments. The ships of World War II, while older models, are War Ships that have proven they can fight in a world war conflict. Just swap out regular ammunition with lasers and modern missiles, and you are ready to go.

I might be oversimplifying that, but you get the idea.
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Unfortunately, that is a HUGE oversimplification. The closest ship class to actually accomplish that, directly, was the Spruance to Ticonderoga Class ships - Spruance Class hull designs that were modified for the added superstructure to house the SPY-1 radar while allowing a Staff space (making it a technical cruiser despite being originally a destroyer hull) and installing the VLS system. The VLS goes through about four (vertical) decks worth of space, takes up the dimensions for 32 or 64 missile cells, changes the wiring requirement (and the heat dissipation considerations) to accommodate the missiles, changes the designated space layout, the damage control/recovery layout, and plays merry hell with the designed ships structural integrity inherent in the previous layout. The next nearest conversion is taking an Arleigh Burke Class DD and changing it to be a Bertholf Class USCG National Security Cutter, which was significantly easier for... reasons.

Taking a WWII ship to convert to a "modern" design would require significant engineering changes, starting with structural integrity and damage control considerations, but must include ballasting/stability redesign. You are taking an existing hull design, re-engineering it for different design philosophies, and hoping you don't introduce a fatal flaw somewhere in the mix. BTW, are you also introducing other efficiencies in propulsion and manning while you are at it? - More redesign...

Edit: Forgot to mention the armor scheme - WWII armor was designed against shell-fire and direct impact torpedoes with specific (outdated) metallurgy, armor schema that is basically bypassed or otherwise made obsolescent with modern explosives of either the missile or torpedo type. This is not including the noted ineffectiveness of conventional shells against modern ships as demonstrated by the reef-making of USS LaSalle.
 
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I mean, this is all kind of irrelevant. Fog ships are masses of nano tech cosplaying as WW2 vessels. The only real limits any hull puts on a fog ship are in the shape of it limiting volume and layout. Like they are effectively spaceships wearing the skin of a boat. They're so far ahead of basically everything else that their hull layout is meaningless when looking at performance, aside from self imposed limitations.

Ironically enough in the self imposed limitations of the fog, WW2 ships are some of the more effective platforms just because they're covered in guns, and Fog guns are bullshit. If they're sticking hardcore to their outer hull cosplay then the ship they're mimicking does limit their number of guns. It doesn't limit their number of missiles though, they just crap those out through their deck plates.
 
Yeah, I suppose so. The rule seems to be "be shaped like an existing boat, and don't launch weaponry from anything that wasn't for that purpose on the original". Durability, and the details of what they weapons actually are, seem irrelevant. Given that nobody's manufactured a boat that is a fractal ball of guns, WWII ships are pretty high up there. Unless you want to switch over to, like, a trireme with two dozen "archers" and "javelineers" on it, each of which is actually some kind of hypertech artillery or particle cannon. That could get you higher density of weapons per area, though each Fog core might want to be a whole fleet to get absolute totals up.
 
The Destroyer said:
I mean, this is all kind of irrelevant. Fog ships are masses of nano tech cosplaying as WW2 vessels. The only real limits any hull puts on a fog ship are in the shape of it limiting volume and layout. Like they are effectively spaceships wearing the skin of a boat. They're so far ahead of basically everything else that their hull layout is meaningless when looking at performance, aside from self imposed limitations.

Ironically enough in the self imposed limitations of the fog, WW2 ships are some of the more effective platforms just because they're covered in guns, and Fog guns are bullshit. If they're sticking hardcore to their outer hull cosplay then the ship they're mimicking does limit their number of guns. It doesn't limit their number of missiles though, they just crap those out through their deck plates.
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Qwertystop said:
Yeah, I suppose so. The rule seems to be "be shaped like an existing boat, and don't launch weaponry from anything that wasn't for that purpose on the original". Durability, and the details of what they weapons actually are, seem irrelevant. Given that nobody's manufactured a boat that is a fractal ball of guns, WWII ships are pretty high up there. Unless you want to switch over to, like, a trireme with two dozen "archers" and "javelineers" on it, each of which is actually some kind of hypertech artillery or particle cannon. That could get you higher density of weapons per area, though each Fog core might want to be a whole fleet to get absolute totals up.
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Ooh, time for a dissertation.

*ahem*

The Fleet of Fog are in fact, some sort of intergalactic STL automated probe, that crash landed on Earth some time in the distant, possibly prehistoric past.

At some point prior to WWII, someone found the Admiralty Code, the Command and Control unit for the FoF. Passing through various hands, it ended up in the possession of the Nazis.

At some point the Nazis figured out what the Admiralty Code was for, and as WWII raged, Nazi scientists attempted to activate the device.

On May 6, 1945, the Nazis succeeded in activating the Admiralty Code. The Fleet of Fog was activated, and given the order to interdict the seas, in hopes that it would disrupt Allied supply lines and grant Nazi Germany and its allies the time needed to regroup and retake the initiative in the war.

However, for unknown reasons, the Fleet of Fog instead returned to its hibernation, and the next day, May 7, 1945, Nazi Germany surrendered to the Allies. The Admiralty Code was subsequently lost in the chaos.

60 years later, the Fleet of Fog reactivated, seemingly spontaneously, and following the orders given over half a century earlier, took on the form of WWII warships and blockaded the seas.

TL; DR: it's all the Nazis fault.
 
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It largely depeds upon Taylor's software. Yes, she can brute force the designs somewhat, but with her tech advantage, it doesn't matter so much. A hovering ball of guns would likely be more powerful, but it is still basicalyl going to win or lose against the same threats. If Scion can lolnope a battleship then he can lolnope a death star, and if he can't the latter then he can't the former, because it is just a few more guns and either her tech is enough or it isn't. Now if Taylor just has the nanomachines, son! then she can do whatever and it doesn't matter, but given that she is already thinking in terms of shipping, that doesn't seem to be the case. If she has prebuilt designs for covered deck turrets, ocean-going hulls, ship-proportioned engineering, ship-shape energy fields, and a preprepared schematic for her very own ship, then why not use it? About the only issue she could address with a different form to an extent that would change anything is mobility and articulation, and she can address those by bolting floaties and tentacles to the side of her hull. That, or sending out drones or her mental model.

Just... what possible situation could an optimised design deal with in an appreciably better way than a big ship design can when she has that level of technological discrepancy? The designs may or may not be stupid, but they are what she has, and should be sufficient for any and all circumstances that any design that she makes could handle.
 
13th Fleet said:
So, a thought prompted by rereading this, I think I would ditch the AoBS mimicry of historical ships for Taylor. I always find it a bit weird and off-putting in AoBS itself since it comes off as being tacked on to the story because the artists wanted to draw a bunch of Japanese hardware from the Good Old Days. Taylor lacks even the paper-thin excuses that canon AoBS has to ape the appearance of old WWII ships. When Taylor made herself a plane she didn't limit herself that way, and I see no reason for her to limit herself that way for her fancy new duds.

Basically: give fancy modern/sci-fi sub! Sleek and smooth teardrop hull! Pop-out weapon mounts! :V
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AoBS does that because it is a Kancolle/SBY crossover at heart. And frankly, going for the retro look is something a Tinker would do just because they can.
 
Oh, I just had a thought (run for the hills) What if when Taylor inevitably fights Leviathan (Fog VS Endbringer) she adds arms and legs to her current hull like a version of Dai-Gunzan from Gurren Lagann. Before she goes SDF-1 on the water based Endbringer, she could have a interesting sword fight with the beast (or maybe a Triton as it is a sea battle).
She could reabsorb the arms and legs once the closer quarters battle is done. Though she might need to use them again to get her ship body close enough to the other end bringers...as after the battle with Leviathan the Endbringers might act like they saw JAWS for the first time and don't want to go into the water.
"Is it my imagination or does Behemoth look nervous...and why is Taylor humming the JAWS theme?"
 
13th Fleet said:
To bring up politics, there's also a degree of problematic nationalism that you have to be on the lookout for that the use of the WWII ships can be a warning sign of, whether AoBS itself is guilty of it or not.
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Uh-huh, you mean like "Final countdown", "Band of brothers", "U-571", "Blackhawk down", "The Patriot", "Pearl Harbor", "Battle of the Bulge", "Independence day" etc, plenty of very problematic nationalism there, not to mention some deliberate falsification of history solely for the sake of said nationalism, like in U-571.

Don't throw stones with abandon when you're sitting in the glass house of one of the most nationalistic nations on earth.

It's extremely disturbing.
 
DW75 said:
Uh-huh, you mean like "Final countdown", "Band of brothers", "U-571", "Blackhawk down", "The Patriot", "Pearl Harbor", "Battle of the Bulge", "Independence day" etc, plenty of very problematic nationalism there, not to mention some deliberate falsification of history solely for the sake of said nationalism, like in U-571.

Don't throw stones with abandon when you're sitting in the glass house of one of the most nationalistic nations on earth.

It's extremely disturbing.
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