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Transposition, or: Ship Happens [Worm/Aoki Hagane no Arpeggio | Arpeggio of Blue Steel]

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ummmmm..... one word on power generation: Geothermal.---> Make Antimatter ------> Use Antimatter as high output fuel ------> SGC ------> Profit(?)

Anti-matter as a fuel makes sense if a High output is required, but other methods of high output energy production require too much room to fit on the ship. Even if the methods of creating Anti-matter are inefficient the other methods of outputting enough power to run a Fog battleship may be too large to actually fit on a battleship.

Edit: Anti-Matter = Fuel like Oil. Other power source = Refinery, like an Oil Refinery

Edit 2: And I think I managed to repeat myself 3 times in less than a minute.....
 
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The antimatter issue depends on if the method used to synthesis elements is capable of creating antimatter.
If it can't, then it can't.

Also if it can not absorb energy from the matter then that also explains the issue.
A reactor could do things her nano can't.

/on my phone
 
Also, if she's making enough antimatter to use in a reactor, it WILL get detected by Dragon. They have all sorts of exotic detection methods, and an Antimatter farm is right up there in things a Tinker would want.
 
Amberion said:
Also, if she's making enough antimatter to use in a reactor, it WILL get detected by Dragon. They have all sorts of exotic detection methods, and an Antimatter farm is right up there in things a Tinker would want.
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You say this like she's thinking about it. Or that it's a bad thing. :V
 
Metallix666 said:
I think Taylor should build a carrier and then give the plans independent but subservent AI's. If only so things like this can happen.
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Just... What did I watch? It was both adorable and bizarre. I have pretty much no clue what it was.

On another note, this Arpeggio series sounds interesting, so I'm just gonna ask if I should read/watch it.
 
Tachikomas. Everything is better with Tachikomas. Even The Major (Motoko Kusanagi) had to agree to this universal, no, multiversal, truth.

And what you did watch is one of several miniepisodes that starred the Tachikomas on their own, instead of as part of the Ghost in the Shell anime series. The Second Gig, I think.
 
Synthesizing atoms may require energy as well or she can tap into the energy....depending on how it is done. IE take two hydrogen atoms, fuse them into helium and work your way up. However you need pressure and heat to do so. Also once you hit iron you get the problem of iron being an energy sink, iron formation does cause some stars to explode I believe.

If she needed a large amount of mercury and quickly....Well when no one is looking she could eat a mercury thermometer. Her system could process the silcon and other materials as well. Heck snacking on things she needs could help cut down on processing time.
 
So, to take a break from the comments regarding the problems (or lack of) with antimatter, given the rate at which nanomaterial can multiply and a rough estimate of how much Taylor seeded to begin with we can start guesstimating as to the TtS (Time to Ship).

(Will be working in litres as density of nanomaterial is unknown)
4 golf balls comes out at around 160ml of nanomaterial according to the average size of golf balls from Google.

Given a doubling approximately every 5 hours suggests that ~5 cycles can complete per day, therefore;

Every day volume increases by 2^5.

1 day -> 5120mL
2 days -> 164L
3 days -> 5248L
4 days -> 168kL
5 days -> 5.376ML
6 days -> 172ML

Good grief does that escalate fast...

For reference an Iowa class battleship displaces 40ML of water.

Of course, this is assuming perfect expansion with no losses in efficiency as the quantity begins to rise and becomes harder to hide, so Taylor likely isn't going to manage to reach this point quite so fast...
 
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Pyrotech51 said:
So, to take a break from the comments regarding the problems (or lack of) with antimatter, given the rate at which nanomaterial can multiply and a rough estimate of how much Taylor seeded to begin with we can start guesstimating as to the TtS (Time to Ship).

(Will be working in litres as density of nanomaterial is unknown)
4 golf balls comes out at around 160ml of nanomaterial according to the average size of golf balls from Google.

Given a doubling approximately every 5 hours suggests that ~5 cycles can complete per day, therefore;

Every day volume increases by 2^5.

1 day -> 5120mL
2 days -> 164L
3 days -> 5248L
4 days -> 168kL
5 days -> 5.376ML
6 days -> 172ML

Good grief does that escalate fast...

For reference an Iowa class battleship displaces 40ML of water.

Of course, this is assuming perfect expansion with no losses in efficiency as the quantity begins to rise and becomes harder to hide, so Taylor likely isn't going to manage to reach this point quite so fast...
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At which point Taylor directs the Grey Goo of Gregarious Grim Reaping to other ships, leaving the slightest shell outside to crumble away a month or so after Arpeggio!Taylor finds her theme song:
 
Metallix666 said:
I think Taylor should build a carrier and then give the plans independent but subservent AI's. If only so things like this can happen.
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We have sub-nodes for it.
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Deathwings said:
Ensou already said he would be avoiding that Station Of Canon.
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ensou said:
Nah, Taylor won't get involved in that. She'll be at school. There's no reason for her to be out of school, and I want to avoid bits of canon. Plus it'll serve to push us further away, since the outcome will be significantly different without Skitter.
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Robbery will be proceeding according to the scenario.
With megalitres of nanomaterial she can stay in school and affect it at the same time.
 
TheUnicorn said:
Yes. The fact that the author hasn't thought through the implications of Taylor Synthesizing element is what's bugging me.
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Yes. I have. I've had pretty in-depth discussions with a number of people who have a much better grasp of nuclear chemistry and quantum mechanics than I do about how this is all working.

TheUnicorn said:
Taylor making AM to use as short term energy boost works, using accelerators to make it when she can synthesize atoms makes no sense.
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She can manipulate quarks and other sub-atomics. Taylor can't make quarks, which would be what's needed to create the anti-quarks for anti-protons. Antimatter generation is prohibitively energy-expensive, much more than elemental synthesis.

Taylor isn't Ramiel!Taylor, here, who can apparently just flip the signs of whatever particles she wants to get antimatter. Benefits of having an S2​ engine, I suppose.

Amberion said:
Also, if she's making enough antimatter to use in a reactor, it WILL get detected by Dragon.
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Making AM is highly radioactive, in the "I can detect this from half a mile away" radioactive. Taylor can build shielding and is largely immune to it, but that doesn't mean it won't go undetected. She's building this in the same bay as the Rig, after all. What did you expect?

In general, antimatter is useful for burst power, as it's a form of potential energy, the way we use batteries and fuels now.
Pyrotech51 said:
For reference an Iowa class battleship displaces 40ML of water.
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There's also like, thirty ships stuck in the bay, with a huge tanker at the opening, and a not-insignificant number of cargo boats. So she's got quite a bit of tonnage to work with.

Pyrotech51 said:
Of course, this is assuming perfect expansion with no losses in efficiency as the quantity begins to rise and becomes harder to hide, so Taylor likely isn't going to manage to reach this point quite so fast...
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There's a pretty big loss in efficiency since not every nanomaterial particle is in contact with a surface that can be converted (as it's replacing what it's using as it goes, and only the edges will be able to make more), which is a miscalculation on Taylor's part. She only thought that because her first five hours doubled it because she was at maximum efficiency: all nanomachines in touch with material they could use and convert.
 
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ensou said:
There's a pretty big loss in efficiency since not every nanomaterial particle is in contact with a surface that can be converted (as it's replacing what it's using as it goes, and only the edges will be able to make more), which is a miscalculation on Taylor's part. She only thought that because her first five hours doubled it because she was at maximum efficiency: all nanomachines in touch with material they could use and convert.
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What about taking low-hanging fruit (ships) and using that nanomaterial to build underwater deep-mining equipment - so you can use thermal energy AND extract stuff from magma.
Well. Probably not. Taylor is not Hyuuga :)
 
Stahor said:
What about taking low-hanging fruit (ships) and using that nanomaterial to build underwater deep-mining equipment - so you can use thermal energy AND extract stuff from magma.
Well. Probably not. Taylor is not Hyuuga :)
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Lower even, plenty of dissolved metals in water. Mainly sodium but there's billions of tons of other metals there.
Then depending on whether her zero point energy extractors are more efficient to fuel the AM forge, she could build fusion reactors to help and feed them with oceanic deuterium. Less drilling, more pumping.
 
I wonder if a Tinker will be able to reverse-engineer her discarded nanomaterial? Tinkers are pretty bullshit, after all. If so, which Tinker would it be?


...or would Ensou create an OC to do so?
 
Potato said:
I wonder if a Tinker will be able to reverse-engineer her discarded nanomaterial? Tinkers are pretty bullshit, after all. If so, which Tinker would it be?

...or would Ensou create an OC to do so?
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Armsy would certainly try if he knew what it was. Kid Win might be interested in the Klein Fields. Bakuda is Bakuda. Squealer didn't even show up in this update which is my only regret.
 
ensou said:
Yes. I have. I've had pretty in-depth discussions with a number of people who have a much better grasp of nuclear chemistry and quantum mechanics than I do about how this is all working.
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Glad to hear that, but it's not coming through in the story.

ensou said:
She can manipulate quarks and other sub-atomics. Taylor can't make quarks, which would be what's needed to create the anti-quarks for anti-protons. Antimatter generation is prohibitively energy-expensive, much more than elemental synthesis.
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Umm...no. You don't need to create anti-quarks to be able to create anti-matter directly. You don't even need to be able to manipulate quarks, you just need to be able to manipulate protons, neutron and electrons to create elements such as carbon 11, Nitrogen 13 or any other isotope which can decay by positron emision, and simply capture the positrons before they encounter an electron.
Beta-plus (ß+) decay (positron emission)
PSIgroup | Physics / List Of Positron Emitting Isotopes

If you absolutely must have anti-protons for some reason, then you might need to have high energy protons hit nuclei to produce anti protons, but:
1)Given that you can manipulate them directly there shouldn't be any need for any accelerators.
2)Given that you manipulate them directly all the particles emitted in the process should be captured, and re-used eliminating the need for any radiation shielding. Of course it's possible Taylor's capture process is imperfect, but if it was poor enough to need shielding then synthesizing mercury should have been a much bigger deal for her, and she should have been worrying about the radiation from all her synthesizing elements.
 
Knowing Armsy, he'll probably engineer a virus to destroy nanomaterial (pretty sure not first time nanomachines have appeared in Earth Bet) as well as find a way to take control of the nanomaterials (hacking). This'll act as a countermeasure in the event that Relentless goes villain.
 
a very nice chapter, though I think a tanker truck at 80 t is a bit too much, given the max capacity I was able to find was in the ballpark of 43000 liters, I am unsure if the truck itself would weight an additional 40t.
Perhaps 60t for the whole thing? full load?
 
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