- Location
- Fox Empire
I never said there weren't. I was just stating that was GG did was wrong.
Transposition, or: Ship Happens [Worm/Aoki Hagane no Arpeggio | Arpeggio of Blue Steel]
- Thread starter ensou
- Start date
- Crossover
I never said there weren't. I was just stating that was GG did was wrong.
- Location
- Mt. Holly, North Carolina
I prefer the classic "[ESCALATION]" phrasing for Worm. Because everyone does it, Taylor just got there faster.
Nixeu
Lord of Madness, Harbinger of Llamas
- Location
- Your nightmares.
You compared it to a fire-arm. It's not lethal. It's nowhere near lethal. And, since it's become an integral part of her body, it's not something she can stop people from being exposed to. You're basically blaming her for something she doesn't have full control over. Which I find disingenuous.
And I think no one is in the wrong enough for you to be comparing anything about this to indiscriminate use of fire-arms.
Victoria reacted how I would expect a veteran of Cape combat to react, at least for her power-set. Treating an unknown Cape as a possible threat until they convince you otherwise is a perfectly rational way to do things. Glory Girl acted, in non-lethal ways, to neutralize that threat. No one was permanently harmed.
I don't understand why you're insisting that Glory Girl was in the wrong, when neither of them were in the wrong enough for it to matter. From what I can tell, I think it has more to do with a negative view of character than anything else.
It's not even all that impulsive. In point of fact, had Relentless been a villain, which was certainly a possibility from Glory Girl's point-of-view, it was a fairly measured response to a scenario in which it's difficult to discern the likely actions of a potential threat. With stuff that could get you killed, being safe is generally preferable to being polite.
Why do you keep insisting on this gun analogy? What's the gun here? She didn't hurt Taylor, so she clearly didn't abuse her strength in any way. In point of fact, it sounds like she was fairly careful not to hurt a possible civilian too bad.
So I can only assume you mean her Master power. Which is a perfectly acceptable manner of taking down a possible threat in a non-lethal manner. It leaves no significant lasting harm, in the majority of cases, and deals with the threat. Assuming she was pushing the fear side, anyway. The other side, I will admit, is more creepy, but it's not exactly good for dealing with possible villains, so I would guess she tried the fear one.
Not all Master powers are created equal, nor are they universally bad, or even universally ethically unsound. As far as they go, a fear aura is tame and fairly benign. I will note that Gallant is probably worse (though he's not bad by any means, either), and I rarely see rants like this about him.
I will also note that I have never read more than Worm fan-fiction, and have very little attachment to Glory Girl. I find her general personality to be one I dislike, on a personal level. And her constant excuses for not properly controlling her strength irk me quite a bit. But this level of reaction is completely uncalled for.
So, what, she should have pulled out her phone to ID the Cape she just tackled (since she didn't seem to realize Relentless was a Cape until then)? I'll admit that she could have been better informed, but for the scenario she was in, she did very little I would not expect from a veteran of Cape combat.
And Relentless has been doing this for about a week. It's not quite at the point where not identifying her is completely inexcusable. Or at least, not at a level I feel comfortable blaming her for, given my own chronic procrastination, and the fact that I live under a rock when it comes to the news.
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- Location
- Fox Empire
Warning For Marginal Behavior: Spaghetti Posting
No, I am blaming her for consciously and purposefully activating a master power on someone who she thought was a non-powered individual.
It's wrong because Relentless was not, in fact, an unknown. Not after publicly fighting Squealer and registering with the PRT. GG, whether she knew or not, turned a master power on an ally. That is not okay.
As for having a negative view of the character, I could be biased, but I am trying to keep such from leaking into my arguments. My apologies if it seems otherwise.
Valefor's power does not leave lasting harm. That does not stop the fact that GG was essentially attempting to take away Relentless's free will.
As for the gun analogy, I insist upon it because it fits. All powers have lethal applications.
No, GG should have the decency to recognize the person who fought Squealer publicly. I'm also fairly sure (Keep in mind I could be wrong) that the PRT actively informs New Wave about new capes.
--
I'm tired right now, so apologies if my arguments seem a bit weak.
Nixeu
Lord of Madness, Harbinger of Llamas
- Location
- Your nightmares.
Warning For Marginal Behavior: Spaghetti Posting
You say that like a Master power is innately harmful or immoral. It's not. And Glory Girl's is fairly low in harm and immorality, at least on the fear setting.
It kinda is, in context. I've admitted she could have been better informed, but, again, she didn't know if Relentless was an ally or not. Under that scenario, the act of turning up the aura was a perfectly valid move, and one likely to preserve her life, while disabling a potential threat in a non-lethal manner. Though I do think pushing it to max was a bit much.
Eh, there are worse examples.
Yeah. And what's the difference between that, and putting cuffs on a perp or knocking them out? Innately, any action to negate a possible threat is one that will interfere with said threat's freedom to act as they see fit. It's merely a matter of degree. Arguably, using Master powers to disable a threat is superior to all other forms, when it comes to physical damage and risk of death.
Edit: Sh*t, hit post accidentally. Additional points will be covered soon.
And they also have non-lethal, or even completely non-violent, applications. In that respect, they are tools, not weapons. And Glory Girl did not use hers as a lethal weapon.
Hard to recognize someone you've never seen before. Victoria had apparently heard there was a new Cape, and not much else. While she could have been more informed, with the information she had, she acted in a fairly decent manner.
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Farmerbob1
Rest in Peace
- Location
- Atlanta-ish
Okay. What you are trying to do here is measure an insecure teenager with anger management issues, entitlement issues, a public identity, and a lack of dedication to doing her homework and knowing the active capes in her town with a well-adjusted adult.
Glory Girl is a high school basketball player with super powers. Think about that for a minute. Then think about the fact that Relentless was, in fact, mirroring many of your concerns about GG's behavior.
Then realize that almost all capes are more aggressive than they would have been if their shards weren't pushing them towards conflict.
Glory Girl was portrayed in canon as being overly aggressive for a hero cape, but not on Shadow Stalker's level. She's being portrayed here the same way.
- Location
- Fox Empire
What? I never said anything was off about her characterization. Also, I can't tell who you're agreeing with because you seem to be of a differing opinion than me while also agreeing to everything I said.
I'll get back to you with my points when I wake up. Tired right now.
Firebird Zoom
Pretty Bird
- Location
- Who knows?
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I look in this thread only to see something that makes me want to switch classes. I'm sad.
- Pronouns
- Yes
First, that's not a Trump power, Trump would be if she could affect other powers, being immune to some powers is not a Trump.
Second, this also fits very well with her not being organic - Victoria's Aura affects humans, if Taylor is simply different enough not to count as one for her power Victoria's aura wouldn't work on her.
What is forgivable is a personal opinion, so that can't be argued because everyone has their own opinions. It is however understandable. It would also be understandable if someone killed her for it (deliberately or otherwise - 'flight of fight' is a thing you know).
I don't believe she did that. She activated her Aura on someone who demonstrated they can break GG hold and (at least temporarily) shut down GG's forcefield.
MiracleGrow
Miracles for only $19.99 [They/Them]
- Location
- DOOR STUCK DOOR STUCK PLEASE I BEG U
ITT: Teenagers don't make the best decisions.
There I solved the debate and about a quarter of worm.
There I solved the debate and about a quarter of worm.
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Nixeu
Lord of Madness, Harbinger of Llamas
- Location
- Your nightmares.
Fair enough.
I'm not sure I agree that opinions can't be swayed by argument. We tend to have reasons we hold opinions, more than just 'because we feel like it', and those reasons can be argued over. There are certainly aspects of this that can be considered from such an angle.
But yeah, this could have gone bad. Glory Girl tends to react without thinking, rather than acting after considering the problem. To some degree, reacting can be good for staying alive in fights, on a very short-term scale. Waiting and considering isn't always an option, and sometimes you just need to do something. But it can also cause major problems.
Her decisions in this case, while not necessarily optimal from all perspectives, are excellent reflexes in a combat scenario, and ones that would help her survive in that scenario. She's a teenager having to deal with potentially fatal scenarios on a regular basis, and that tends to have a major affect on how you react in dangerous scenarios.
But, honestly, that bugs me far less than people reacting to her use of her aura like she just tried to Heartbreaker Taylor. I know people get touchy about Master powers, but I haven't seen anywhere near this sort of response to Gallant using his powers to disable foes. It's pretty much the same thing, in this case. Not in all cases where her aura is used, but in this specific instance, it's about the same.
MiracleGrow
Miracles for only $19.99 [They/Them]
- Location
- DOOR STUCK DOOR STUCK PLEASE I BEG U
Like I get what you mean. But its sometimes important to just step back and see if your thinking to hard about it.
Answers can be really simple and you don't need complex situations to justify it.
- Location
- Germany
Except Trump powers by definition trump other powers like say, power immunity and while the Trump category isn't limited to that, it also includes it. And Taylor being immune to Victoria's aura and then telling her that she is immune to Masters, period. This sets a precedent on Taylor's front that she has some form of power immunity.
And again, this doesn't actually matter, since "Relentless" uses a full coverage bodysuit with (as other people know it) tinker tech armor.
Amy needs skincontact, which doesn't happen if you are wearing a full coverage bodysuit. At the same time, Taylor is established as a Brute of such proportions that she would most likely never get injured enough to need Panacea.
And again, nobody in story has yet to suspect that Taylor is non-human, so nothing that happens can "fit in" with that theory, since nobody has that theory atm. And before you say anything about Vista, she doesn't suspect, she knows. And she won't tell anyone else.
Therefore anyone jumping on a non-organic theory in story will be derided as a crackpot.
Epsilon Rose
The King of Unrest
Point of order: Victoria's aura is not a master power and lacks all hallmarks of a master power. Master powers are defined as things that give the master extra bodies in a fight or control of autonomous things outside of themselves. This is why Taylor's bug control is considered a master power, despite her not controlling people until she becomes Kephri. Victoria's aura does not do this. Amy's issues are a result of, normal, classical conditioning; they will not manifest in someone who only has infrequent contact with Vicky and her aura.
On the other hand, the definition of a shaker power is something that effects the battlefield/area around the user and either makes it harder for their enemies to function or easier for their allies. That is exactly what her aura does. The fact that it does so by effecting people's brains is immaterial to the classification.
I think it's reasonable for her not to be up to date on the specifics of everything happening or who's registered with the PRT on a literally daily basis. Similarly, it makes sense to not double check everything with the PRT if you have someone right in-front of you who you think is moments away from killing themselves. This is definitely one of the times where it's better to err on the side of action, because if you take the time to double check and they kill themselves while you're trying to get confirmation someone dies, but if you don't double check and they would have been fine, then someone is inconvenienced. One of those worst case scenarios is much worse than the other.
- Location
- Budapest, Hungary
She is a Shaker. The effect of her aura is temporary, and used for crowd control. Amy's case was a natural psychological addiction.
Selonianth
Writer of Words
No evidence that happened. As she only even hinted she was using her aura *after* Taylor forced her way out of her hold, and made it inexhaustibly clear she's not a civilian.
This has already been covered, but here's another point. Has she done things GG *might* have heard about? Yes. But to refer you back to the conversation from before, this is her second night out ever. Not exactly a long period of time, no matter how much Relentless did that first night, for it to be inexcusable.
In Vicky's case the aura's lethal application requires her strength to be able to be brought to bare. Her strength is the lethal portion of her powers. Not her aura.
If you insist upon a firearm analogy, replace the bullets with... I dunno, rubber rounds and you *might* be remotely close.
Point A here requires her to know what Relentless looks like. Presuming she has in fact heard of the fight, which isn't much to ask, depending on where she heard of it from she might very well have known basically nothing about what Relentless actually looked like.
And Point B.... I don't believe that's true but I welcome you to find a citation.
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wtdtd
slow thinker, with crippling abundance of time
- Location
- The Netherlands
Isn't she only labled a shaker for pr reasons?
Pretty much. Last I checked there were concerns about long-term exposure to Glory Girl's aura among the PRT / Protectorate. The reasons they were just "concerns" was because none of the people who spent time around Vicky (Gallant, the rest of New Wave, the Wards at Arcadia) didn't show signs of being Mastered. I expect had they known about Amy's problems that would have changed fast - though mostly because Panacea was extremely valuable as a healer.
Ridli Scott
(Verified acid sweater mutant)
- Location
- The Periphery
In theory, her fear aura at full in close could kill someone, maybe she isn't a master but... well, that could be bad for PR.
Assembler
Rocking the life
Nope. Aura and forcefield are completely separate.
Complete fanon on both counts. Her aura is shaker for the same reason Rachel was listed as a Master even after the PRT found out she doesn't telepathically control her dogs: the Master classification is about making minions. And if people were so concerned about human-affecting Masters as heroes, would you mind explaining why Pretender was allowed to be the leader of the Las Vegas Wards until it was discovered that he directly benefited from Cauldron's immoral actions?
Selonianth
Writer of Words
Also pretty sure Wildbow came down directly and said she's not a Master at some point.
Wow, the fanon is strong with you, Assembler. Masters are anyone who can create minions, right? And if long-term exposure to Glory Girl turned people into minions she would be given a Master rating. The fact that her power doesn't grant total control is irrelevant given how Teacher's power works. Specifically he can implant drives into people but he doesn't absolutely control them forever. Even with that limitation he was given a Master rating.
Hell, Lisa could do something similar with her power if she wanted to spend time at it. Her ability to discover someone's innermost secrets and manipulate them could make her an impossibly good con artist, for example. And that's before you think about what she could do given a few months if she was working as, just for example, an extremely unethical psychologist or therapist.
As for Pretender, Masters aren't always considered evil. How they use their powers is rather important. Canary discovered she had a Master power by accident and someone got maimed. They made an example out of her for that reason. By contrast pretty much everyone hated Heartbreaker because he was known to Master any-and-everyone he could. Meanwhile Taylor controlled bugs but until she proved herself to be a threat the Master classification was a joke. Once she proved she was a threat her Master rating was a serious problem. (And caused some trust issues when she switched to the heroic side of things.)
- Location
- Existance
Well, except Vista. Who also thinks Gallant will make the same connection instantly.
He actually can, though, as he does this to (I believe) one of the Travelers at the end of canon, and surrounded himself with people like this in the Birdcage. Essentially blanks them and makes them loyal puppets.
Everyone knew about her Master power. What came as a surprise was how long it lingered and how much impact it had while it lingered.
I still agree that saying Vicky doesn't Master people is the stupidest thing ever, regardless of how people want to classify the effect.
"She doesn't Master people, she just influences how they act, how they respond, and their opinions. That's completely different, and don't think about Cherish."
Wasn't that something he either discovered or started using in the Birdcage? Meaning it isn't something that people consider in Worm?
- Location
- Fox Empire
And that somehow makes it better? She still used her power on somebody who did nothing but free themselves from being forcefully held down.
Relentless defeated Lung, the arguably strongest cape in the bay, and Squealer. The second time the fight happened publicly. So yes, it is inexcusable for Glory Girl to not be able to recognize her. I would also like to point out that, even if GG didn't recognize her, Relentless asked (multiple times) to be let up. GG did not let her up.
GG's aura can be used to terrify somebody into suicide or make somebody adore GG enough to jump off a cliff. So yes, it does have lethal applications.
GG not recognizing her is a huge mistake on her part. I would like to remind you that she defeated Lung (And GG said she heard about that) AND Squealer. There is no excuse to not even recognize the name.