- Location
- Pee Pee Poo Poo
[x] Blunt rush.
-[x] send scouts
--[x] rush in and take out the bandits.
-[x] send scouts
--[x] rush in and take out the bandits.
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To Establish Peace - A Romance of the Three Kingdoms Quest
- Thread starter Gaz
- Start date
- Alt. History Historic
- Location
- Germany
Well, this is a trap either way. I see the possibilities like Void Stalker.
One caveat, I do have. Am I the only one* that thinks a stable hand would not be the character to be sent away or able to escape? Interrogating him should be our first move. From his reactions, we could likely guess some things already. The bandits had infiltrators in our estate and in Xinshen, it would not be surprising for them to have the same in the Ge estate.
Yu Du had planned an ambush for us before, and he still likely believes his own operatives remain active in Xinshen. So, there is a good chance for him going for that. But it honestly seems like a bad choice of a target if that was the goal. I mean, Liang Shu has his own estate...where would he logically more likely run to in defense? His own holdings or to someone he is apparently at odds with? It seems like a strange target. While there is some enmity there between Chu Yan and Ge Lang, it should not supersede his interests in victory. They had around 10k troops. Our scouts honestly suck to bring nothing to us about them.
I think it will be both. One part ambushes any reinforcements send to the Ge Clan, and the other makes a play for Xinshen. Looks like the best way to make use of the numerical advantage they have. The part planning to attack Xinshen can easily postpone their actions depending on our actions.
Ge Dejun was not successful in beating his force and only managed for it to split into three parts. This group only really wanted to plunder and would surely hit a soft target like the Ge estate. Therefore, a slight possibility of them just being from that force exists, even though I am doubtful of them actually playing any part.
Another points is being decisive. Gaz has strongly emphasized this. The middle path is likely the wrong way forward. We have to commit to one way of action.
Edit: Well, this happens when you take your time with posting. *Zol Sagato says the same.
One caveat, I do have. Am I the only one* that thinks a stable hand would not be the character to be sent away or able to escape? Interrogating him should be our first move. From his reactions, we could likely guess some things already. The bandits had infiltrators in our estate and in Xinshen, it would not be surprising for them to have the same in the Ge estate.
Yu Du had planned an ambush for us before, and he still likely believes his own operatives remain active in Xinshen. So, there is a good chance for him going for that. But it honestly seems like a bad choice of a target if that was the goal. I mean, Liang Shu has his own estate...where would he logically more likely run to in defense? His own holdings or to someone he is apparently at odds with? It seems like a strange target. While there is some enmity there between Chu Yan and Ge Lang, it should not supersede his interests in victory. They had around 10k troops. Our scouts honestly suck to bring nothing to us about them.
I think it will be both. One part ambushes any reinforcements send to the Ge Clan, and the other makes a play for Xinshen. Looks like the best way to make use of the numerical advantage they have. The part planning to attack Xinshen can easily postpone their actions depending on our actions.
Ge Dejun was not successful in beating his force and only managed for it to split into three parts. This group only really wanted to plunder and would surely hit a soft target like the Ge estate. Therefore, a slight possibility of them just being from that force exists, even though I am doubtful of them actually playing any part.
This is Shu's own assessment. Such statements have always been given by Gaz with the intention of being some form of advice. Like Yu Zhong's assessment for the missions during the preparation turns. IF we send someone, Shu is the one to go. There will likely be major decisions to make, and relying on someone else for them will only lead to big uncertainties. Zhang Xiu is more than able enough to defend Xinshen.
Another points is being decisive. Gaz has strongly emphasized this. The middle path is likely the wrong way forward. We have to commit to one way of action.
Edit: Well, this happens when you take your time with posting. *Zol Sagato says the same.
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Duke William of
I really need to finish my quests. :V
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The moratorium's still in place. You'll have to wait for 7 more hours.
Sertorius
Rebellious Legate
- Location
- Roma Invicta
To send your second in command for a minor operation which most likely is a trap created specifically for him to expose himself is nothing short of ignorance. Liang Shu must have a bigger picture in mind. He has an office and a city full of people to protect and defend. Scouting and skirmishing are most certainly not on his bucket list.
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- Location
- Germany
The enemy has 10k of troops at his disposal, if this is a trap, it is some grades above a skirmish. Truly mind-boggling to believe it is. If the main character in his own thought commends on him being the one to be sent out, this statement has to be taken seriously. Shu is no bumbling fool in military matters. The decisions for such a mission can be numerous. Risk our own forces against superior enemy numbers. Yes or no? Fight for the safety of Ge Lang or Ge Maiyu. Yes or no? Pursue enemy forces. Yes or no? Withdraw, because of news from the enemy. Yes or no? Spring trap, yes or no?
The enemy has a force of 10.000 somewhere in Xinshen and you want to give our strongest asset out of our hands and hope for the best...why is this a good idea? Cavalry has been our ace in the hole, and we are even now likely outnumbered in that category. Sending a substantial part of them away will risk them. This is not the time for delegation. Shu has to shoulder the risk and not push it onto someone else.
Zhang Xiu is a military man and has already accomplished a victory for a similar situation in his own region, mirroring the current situation. He and Jia Xu beat their enemies this turn with barely any losses. We are his subordinate and not the other way around. His office supersedes ours. They are more than able to defend a city.
@Gaz What made Zhang Xiu change his mind? He told Shu to wait with the Ge till after the battles. Or did they just mean the three battles with the vanguard forces?
- Location
- UK
Something else was uncovered that made him feel like he couldn't wait. Also Ge Dejun's shoddy performance in battle gave the prefect the excuse to strip him of any military command, neutering any potential retalation the Ge clan might have.
No voting until then.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
*tears* our relationship got hurt.
Sertorius
Rebellious Legate
- Location
- Roma Invicta
10k troops? All the more reason not to risk an all out assault into the unknown. As mentioned, it is the bandits that need to be aggressive, not the other way around. We are at our strongest behind the walls and if they won't get a piece of the pie soon, they will disperse. Then we can go on the offensive, when their unity is broken. I see no reason to invite disaster on a whim.
We cannot move out with any substantial force without the enemy noticing this. Thus, they will be well prepared for us. The battle will be on their terms, not ours. As mentioned by Ge Dejun, the bandits assaulting his estate are about a hundred strong. This alone does not mandate sending anything larger than a token force. Since we all universally agree, that this is probably an ambush, all the more reason not to go for it. A smaller force under a competent commander, who can assess the risk and know when to attack and when to withdraw is more then adequate. Thus, we will investigate the Ge situation and if possible, Zhang Liao will take care of it and bring the survivors back to the city. At the same time, I see absolutely no reason to send out a high ranking commander with such a token force to risk disaster in case he gets ambushed. It's like sending a general on a scouting mission. Isn't this what subordinates are for? No, this is a job for a competent leader of lesser meaning.
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- Location
- Germany
I have no problems with staying in Xinshen. While it essentially negates the last choice, it is far better than sending out the token force you propose. We have to fully commit to a course. Either send out our complete cavalry with Shu and a substantial contingent of retainers alongside most of our forces, or we stay home. No middle path!
Leaving the strategic initiative with the enemy carries its own risks. One was described already. Shu has his own home to worry about. If the bandits are left alone, they will likely go for it in some manner. There is no more obvious way to entice him to come forward.
I have never proposed to send out a token force, and consider the idea to be a really bad one. We don't know where the enemy is. The only sign of enemy forces are hearsay of an attack force of 100 bandits. Ge Dejun himself was not there and has shown uncertainty regarding their forces, numbers and locations. He essentially guesses their numbers on a comment from a servant, meaning you rely on absolute hearsay to determine the size of any party send out. This account is not reliable regarding its accuracy.
The possibility of a trap is high, and a token force will be annihilated. End of story. We already had the case with the camps set far apart. If we had sent a raiding force, they would have gotten mauled and characters would have likely died. Only if we send out everything, would we have stood a chance to actually harm the bandits. With the obvious hints Gaz has dropped, through Shu's own thoughts and Yu Zhong's comments regarding being decisive, your wishy-washy approach would just lead to us suffering senseless losses.
Why would they suffer? Our scouts have just shown themselves unable to find the full bandit force, or even just a sign of them. Will they be able to count the enemies sieging or looting the Ge estate? Yes, surely. Will they be able to do the same for an ambush? Highly unlikely.
Jia Xu's strategy demonstrated how an ambush can work and whittle an enemy down even though he withdraws. Why would the bandits let such a juicy target as a small cavalry force escape? You yourself assume they have spies and scouts watching whatever is sent out. They have the numbers to surround any small force without facing any problems. If you don't know where the enemy is, you do not sent out small forces, allowing the enemy to achieve a defeat in detail. You want to risk our best military commander and fighter just because he is not Shu. This has nothing to do with delegation and you bringing it up again and again does not make it right.
It is outright stated how this is risky either way and can decide the future of the war for Xinshen. Making it an important moment and not some minor thing. Gaz would not post such a thing, if it does not carry an ounce of truth. Making this the moment for Shu to step up and take charge, not leave everything in the hands of Zhang Liao.
[ ] Draft Plan
-[ ] Dispatch scouts immediately
-[ ] Deploy a fast reaction force
-[ ] Begin preparations to deploy a larger infantry-heavy force.
-[ ] Gather Information
I figure we'll decide "Step 2)" when we have more information.
As it's way too early for any battle strategy.
...It'd also be far more than 200 words.
-[ ] Dispatch scouts immediately
-[ ] Officers; Cao Xing, Bi Guang, Xiang Shi, Taishi Ci (If he can't Scout, he can at least assassinate with archery)... who else?
-[ ] Units; which units?
-[ ] Orders; to search for bandit scouts, along the route(s) between Xinshen and the Ge Clan estates.
-[ ] If they find enemy scouts, capture them, and interrogate onsite.
-[ ] If none are found, attempt to scout the Ge Clan estates. Do not engage, or take risks.
-[ ] Report all intel to Zhang Liao's fast reaction force.
-[ ] Deploy a fast reaction force
-[ ] Officers; Zhang Liao... who else?
-[ ] Cavalry Units; which units?
-[ ] Orders; non-fast march along the route(s) to the Ge Clan estates, to give the impression we've taken the bait of any trap, and/or be in place to support the scouts.
-[ ] Further orders will be sent by runner.
-[ ] If our scouts discover solid intel, and you believe the risk is minimal, you may act at your discretion. Be wary of a trap.
-[ ] Otherwise, do not engage, and forward gathered intel to Liang Shu.
-[ ] Begin preparations to deploy a larger infantry-heavy force.
-[ ] Officers; Liang Shu... who else?
-[ ] Units; which units?
-[ ] Gather Information
-[ ] Send for Bu Chong the stablehand, to be brought before the Prefect for immediate questioning.
-[ ] Bid Jia Xu continue his reveal of traitors within the Gentry of Xinshen.
-[ ] First have Ge Dejun detained by the guards, but remain in the room. Pay attention to his reaction.
-[ ] Question Ge Dejun
-[ ] When Bu Chong arrives:
-[ ] Ask about the attacking force's identity; were they flying banners? any recogniseable leaders?
-[ ] Ask about the attacking force's numbers and composition; cavalry? infantry? archers? spear? sword? shield?
-[ ] Ask... what else???
I figure we'll decide "Step 2)" when we have more information.
As it's way too early for any battle strategy.
...It'd also be far more than 200 words.
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Sol Zagato
senseless brute
This is all too hasty. If we don't have the trusted servant to speak to directly, then we should treat it all as misinformation.
- Location
- UK
They are not, they are in your estate which is in a valley to the west of the city.
Sertorius
Rebellious Legate
- Location
- Roma Invicta
In general we agree on most things.
We also agree, that Shu's own estate would be a more promising target. I'm sad to say, that this is the risk, that comes with war. Running around blind hoping to catch the enemy will do nothing to help. While I am amazed that a 10k force is impossible to detect, given its size, the best course of action is to remain in place until they can be found.
The one thing that parts us is the task force and its commander. The plan I described is exactly a response to their scouts and spies. Ride out in small parties, just like the scouts we send every day, then regroup. So far I haven't heard of our scouting parties being annihilated. A good commander, veterans and our best scouts are to make sure they survive this operation. Plus, a smaller troop will be faster and much harder to detect. If the group attacking the Ge estate is indeed a small raiding party, Zhang Liao will deal with them. If not, he will withdraw, simple as that. As for the details he is smart enough to not get himself and his men killed. Do not underestimate him.
I do not wish to send out anything more than this for reasons described, but we have to make some attempt to save face.
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- Location
- barking
I mean our estate was attacked so it could be a similar thing. the problem with waiting is we cant do it for long since we don't have enough food for a long lockdown
- Location
- Brazil
True but the update also said that waiting benefits us more than them.
- Location
- Pee Pee Poo Poo
End it now, no point in hiding when we can finish it in one decisive strike.
- Location
- USA
But... it's a trap?
It's PROBABLY a trap. We don't know for sure 100%, although I am also of the Opinion that it is a trap of some kind, though whether by the Ge or the Bandits (or both) is up in the air.
DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
The whole problem here is that we can't finish it in one decisive strike. If we actually knew the enemy army was over there and all we had to do was go and beat them to death, we would. But we don't know that, and it's more likely that they're trying to lure some or all of our troops out so that they're free to act and kill us off piecemeal if they get the chance. Thinking that we could possibly pull off a decisive strike to finish them right now is starry-eyed optimism.