That was a timing issue where we left him behind right after that heart to heart at the party we held. But yeah I mean we left him behind because a lot of us expected an attack against our home while the main force was away and we had to figure out who we wanted to lead the defense (in this case Ce Xiang and Xu Jian). Xu Tong due to being chief retainer and thus getting 2 actions an estate turn was an obvious one to leave. It just ended up being poor timing.
I am aware why we left him behind and it was for other reasons than you state. Mainly for the aiding action for the veterans. It was near the sole reason for Xu Jian staying behind. Ce Xiang was left behind because of convincing our Aunt to come to us. Any loss of relationship with them was well worth what we got out of it. But raising this again and again after months in quest, and RL, honestly is just senseless and bothersome. Especially, when it is portrayed as a major move by the whole thread to insult and demean Xu Jian at every turn, which is utter bullshit. It is simply factually wrong that we did wrong Xu Jian at every turn.
 
Tbh I think the reason why Xu Jian tends to get forgotten a lot is more due to the fact that personality wise he's a bit more...er..."bland" than the rest. He probably doesn't stand out much compared to the likes of Zhu Fang, Yu Zhong, Lu Lingqi and the rest. I even had an update from his POV but he still gets forgotten, haha! Maybe if he gets a chance to shine a bit more, he'll be a bit more memorable. For now, he's just kinda like the typical reliable loyal friend character.
 
Hunting Tigers by Erzherzog_Karl
What If: Hunting with Yuan Shu

It proved to be a wonderful day for a hunt. The sun was shining, the sky was clear and the hounds were hungry. Liang Shu and his new companion Taishi Ci were one of the first to join the hunting group. The richly clothed lord of the Yuan Clan welcomed the two with a smile and directed them to join the younger members of the hunt. A string of introductions follows, a smart looking fellow introduces himself as Huang Yi, a stronger looking one is called Qi Ji and a gruff fellow with a hoarse voice offers his name as Hui Yan. All of them offer friendly faces and welcome the new additions to their group.

It is obvious that Huang Yi is some kind of leader among them. He stands quite high in Lord Yuan's favor and the jokes between them mention a potential betrothal between him and a daughter of Lord Yuan.

Taishi Ci is less impressed with all of them and hopes to see action during the hunt. For him it is the first time hunting with a group of nobles. For a strong looking fellow like him the hunt is more about showing his skill with the bow than having fun with some nobles. With his new friend Liang Shu at his side he hopes to bring down a mighty beast.

It does not take long for the hunt to start. The hounds are set loose and the more eager hunters take off in hot pursuit. Hoping to be the first to bring down a beast. Huang Yi is one of the few of the youths staying behind. The rest are led by a loudly screaming Qi Ji riding ahead of them. It seems the hunt is off to a great start. Most of them quickly enter the forest and follow the eager hounds.

But the roar of a tiger stops the hunt in their tracks. Most of the younger hunters followed the hounds closely to be among the first to slay the frightened prey. Coming out of the bushes is the source of the roar. A mighty tiger, blood on his claws and ready to pounce on the fools who entered its territory. The tiger disturbs the hounds and frightens them into backing off, with a quick launch it easily snapps the neck of one of them. Killing it.
Before it can choose a new target and try for one of the horses an arrow hits it. With a war cry Liang Shu and Taishi Ci ride forward to deal with the beast. In perfect union they combine their weapons to strike at the mighty tiger. The young master of the Liang clan wields his Ji in close combat, while the ferocious Taishi Ci gives him support with his bow. When one backs off the other strikes, their combined efforts manage to drive the tiger into a corner. Bleeding from many wounds it gives one last mighty roar and tries to dislodge Liang Shu from his horse, but the young noble is prepared and strikes it down. At the same time as his strike hits home another arrow finds its mark on the tiger. The two mighty warriors then bicker over who dealt the killing blow, not realizing how the rest of the hunting party stare at them in awe. To the surprise of many this is not the end of the tiger event. This time a pair of roars are heard and two tiger cubs make their way to the slain tiger. They turn towards the slayer of their father and bare their fangs. But against the slayer of their father they prove unsuccessful. Both perish in a single strike. Such an act obviously dampened the mood of the eager youths and while they are still praised for their skill, both of them look upon the carcass of the young tiger cubs with remorse instead of a sense of pride.

After such an exciting event, the hunt continues. They manage to hunt down a pair of deers, but the most successful hunter proves to be Jade, the prized falcon of Lord Yuan Shu. He collects a small mountain of hares.

When the sun is still shining the end of the hunt is in sight, but another sound breaks the pleasant atmosphere. Jade, the falcon of Lord Yuan, is fleeing from another bird. Pursuing it is a big eagle. It looks like without any interference the falcon will not see the next day.

Like on a silent signal both of the youths, Liang Shu and Taishi Ci, raise their bows and nock an arrow. As quickly as they reacted, so quickly did they release their shots. Two arrows flying straight for the eagle, which tried to take down the falcon of Lord Yuan. Both hit their mark.

A surprise exclamation is heard among the ranks of the other nobles and one of them rides his horse to bring back the dead bird. In the following commotion everyone gratulates the two youths for saving the price bird of their master and lord. Even Lord Yuan offers some appreciative words. With this exciting event the hunt comes to an end.

In the aftermath Yuan Shu wants to reward the two youths for their effort and grants them both new hanfus and suits of armor from his personal stock. He goes even further and promises Liang Shu support for his attempt to fight the bandit plague in Xinshen.

Both Liang Shu and Taishis Ci are overwhelmed by the amount of generosity the Lord of the Yuan Clan has shown them. They offer many thanks and are the first to leave the hunting group behind. Promising to repay this kindness in the future.



When Liang Shu and his companion left, the hunting group remained behind. The noble Yuan Shu is holding the fallen bird of prey, a magnificent eagle. Two arrows are sticking out of the bird, one out of each eye. He gives it a long look and then turns his eye to the backs of the youths, who accomplished such an act.
"Mylord Yuan, it was truly a fortuitous event for them to succeed with such a lucky shot. It would have been a shame, if your great bird had been harmed." Ji Ji springs down from his horse and bows his head in shame, prostrating himself before the lord of the Yuan Clan." Forgive me, Lord Yuan. I neglected to consider such a misfortune to befall us on the hunt. The fault lies with me and I accept any punishment you wish to give."

Yuan Shu barely considers Ji Ji worth a glance. His eyes are still transfixed on the bird. "Tell me Ji Ji, could you have done the same as these youths did? Together they brought down a tiger and then each slayed a tiger's cub. Saving Jade(Yù) put me into their debt. So answer me Ji Ji, could you accomplish the same?"

Still on the ground with his head in the dirt Ji Ji looks up and confesses. "No, my lord Yuan. My skills in the art of the bow have been sorely lacking. I will endeavor to correct such a malicious oversight on my part. Once more I beg your magnanimous self to forgive me for my mistake."

With a non-saying wave of his hand Yuan Shu shushed Ji Ji. "Quiet Ji Ji, you are forgiven. You need to rectify this circumstance. After all, I'm giving you my attentions. If you look bad then I'll look bad too."

Once more bowing his head Ji Ji thanks his master for the sign of favor. While Ji Ji is still thinking about his mistake and how he can better himself. The thoughts of Yuan Shu turn back to the two youths. In truth, he invited them out for a hunt more on a whim, than any great hopes for them. Beating down some ruffians spark his interest, but normally it would not have done more. For these two it felt like his heart longed for them. Like heaven smiled upon him to grant you an opportunity of his lifetime. When they were leaving the words left his mouth without a conscious thought. They will be worthy additions to your ranks. Giving a last look at the corpse of the slain tiger, Yuan Shu cannot help himself but laugh.

"A tiger may prove too hard to tame, but I am known to have just the right touch for birds." Yuan Shu says with a smile in the direction of the backs of Liang Shu and Taishi Ci.

Secured Patronage of the Yuan Clan
+10.000 Wealth
+4.000 Guanxi
Bonus Unlocked Patronage of Yuan Clan granting Income in Wealth and Guanxi per turn (200 Wealth, 100 Guanxi)




Even though it never happened, I thought the option to get the patronage or help from Yuan Shu to be an interesting option and therefore here is my What If Scenario for how that could have happened. I don't think the amount of wealth or guanxi I put is that out of the realm of possibility...but it is obviously not to be taken seriously.
 
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Thanks! I thought I went a little over the top with the symbolic killing of the mighty tiger and the tiger cubs. But if we would ally or come under Yuan Shu, I could easily see us vanquishing Sun Ce and Sun Quan when they turn on the Emperor of Zhong.
 
Thanks! I thought I went a little over the top with the symbolic killing of the mighty tiger and the tiger cubs. But if we would ally or come under Yuan Shu, I could easily see us vanquishing Sun Ce and Sun Quan when they turn on the Emperor of Zhong.

Haha, yeah. Clearly, Liang Shu needs to get the patronage of all the more notorious historical villains of this period. Dong Zhuo, Gongsun Zan, Yuan Shu, Tao Qian...
 
Haha, yeah. Clearly, Liang Shu needs to get the patronage of all the more notorious historical villains of this period. Dong Zhuo, Gongsun Zan, Yuan Shu, Tao Qian...
Wait, what did Tao Qian do that made him particularly villainous on par with the others in that breath? I recall various ROTK media making him out to be one of the less heinous warlords aside from his subordinates murdering Cao Cao's dad, which variously he either ordered or absolutely did not want but his subordinates pulled anyway. I'm always interested when the ROTK business ends up gilding over or eliding past folks with particularly rotten cores.
 
Wait, what did Tao Qian do that made him particularly villainous on par with the others in that breath? I recall various ROTK media making him out to be one of the less heinous warlords aside from his subordinates murdering Cao Cao's dad, which variously he either ordered or absolutely did not want but his subordinates pulled anyway. I'm always interested when the ROTK business ends up gilding over or eliding past folks with particularly rotten cores.
The first thing is something you already mention. It is highly likely that the attack on Cao Song and the other family members, including Cao De another son of Song, was ordered by him. There are of course other things. From his mismanagement of Xu Province, famously hiring Cao Hong, who was said to have done some bad things. To his said general decline in governorship. To this comes his dislike of the Sun family and falsely incarcerating Lü Fan. He also threatened the one holding Sun Ce's mother, Lady Wu, with harm if he would not surrender them to his "custody", it was Zhang Hong who took them away from his sphere of influence. He also allowed the later self-declared emperor Que Xuan to raid the neighboring province Yan after he allowed him to gather the troops for it in his province. When the guy did declare himself emperor Tao Qian killed him, but the raiding of another province was okay in his books. Just some things. Overall, he may have been a good guy once, but with the breakdown in order he did some really shady stuff.

Here is the post from the Rafe De Crespigny
Tao Qian斷婚 [Gongzu 非䢗] (132-194); Danyang. Tao Qian's father, a county magistrate in Kuaiji, died when Tao Qian was a child. As a young man, Tao Qian acted the fool and was a ringleader for local trouble-makers, but he impressed the gentleman Gan Gong, who gave him his daughter in marriage. Tao Qian later became a keen scholar and a man of honour, though he could still be erratic in his conduct. Having held local appointment in his commandery, Tao Qian was nominated Filial and Incorrupt, served in the Imperial Secretariat, and became a county magistrate in Lujiang. The Administrator Zhang Pan, a friend of his late father, sent to welcome him, but Tao Qian snubbed him and left office. Nominated by the provincial authorities as Abundant Talent, Tao Qian was appointed a magistrate, this time in Jibei, and was later Inspector of Yu province. In 185 he held military office and then a staff position against the Liang province rebels in the northwest, but was soon afterwards sent as Inspector of Xu province to deal with remnant Yellow Turbans. He restored order and established peaceful government, so that Xu province became prosperous and was a place of refuge for people escaping civil war. In 191 Tao Qian sent three thousand men to support Zhu Jun against Dong Zhuo, and he later sought to form an alliance against Li Jue and his fellows. Nothing came of it, and in 193 Tao Qian made contact with the regime at Chang'an; he was promoted to Governor, named a general and enfeoffed. As he began to show increasing favour to corrupt officials, however, he lost the support of the gentry and his administration became disordered. He was now in a loose alliance with Yuan Shu and the northern warlord Gongsun Zan. Towards the end of 193 soldiers under Tao Qian's command waylaid and killed Cao Song, father of Cao Cao the Governor of Yan province. Tao Qian may have been innocent of the affair, but Cao Cao attacked his territory with full force, defeated his army and ravaged Pengcheng and Xiapi. Tao Qian fled to Donghai, and in 194 he received support from Tian Kai and Liu Bei. Cao Cao attacked again, but was then obliged to turn back and deal with insurrection in his home territory. Soon afterwards Tao Qian died of illness. -HHS 73/63: 2366-68*, SGZ 8:247-50*. -- Biographical Dictionary of Later Han to the Three Kingdoms
 
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Can't say it better than Karl has. Tao Qian probably wasn't as bad as some of the more notorious warlords, but he got whitewashed a lot by the novel, and the image of him as a doddery, yet kind old man has persisted in pop culture ever since.

As an addition, Tao Qian jumpstarted the career of the notorious brigand Buddhist warlord Ze Rong, as well. He tended to recognise the talents of the corrupt and cruel rather than the loyal and capable.

Also, for the record, the Cao Hong 曹宏 who Karl mentioned is not the same famous Cao Hong 曹洪 who was a cousin to Cao Cao.
 
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Since it has been a long while since this has been brought up, and Thread Consensus (tm) may very well have shifted since this was last discussed, what are folks' thoughts on marriages between your retainers and family, especially if we are doing a timeskip in the near future?
 
I mean our sister and Zhu Fang i still say make a good couple plus we did promise him as for our other sister hey if she chooses one of our retainers im all for it.
 
Since it has been a long while since this has been brought up, and Thread Consensus (tm) may very well have shifted since this was last discussed, what are folks' thoughts on marriages between your retainers and family, especially if we are doing a timeskip in the near future?
Which retainers?

Zhu Fang and Liang Zhen?
IIIRC we promised to allow them to marry.

I think Zhang Liao and Liang Mi were just courting?
Not sure.
 
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