Time of the Gods: Into the Amber Age

We need giant avatar to unlock titanic avatar.

and then presumably ultra-mega ginormous avatar

Ah but it'd be so worth it. That would make the best murder turtle. Plus goat God had his portable shrine so we've gotta make his look like absolute shit. Our portable temple will be on the back of a mountain sized murder turtle.

[X] Plan: Grow! Grow! Grow!
 
Ah but it'd be so worth it. That would make the best murder turtle. Plus goat God had his portable shrine so we've gotta make his look like absolute shit. Our portable temple will be on the back of a mountain sized murder turtle.

[X] Plan: Grow! Grow! Grow!

Great to see you on board with Best Plan.

Murder turtles will be a thing... as soon as I figure how to have sex with sea turtles.
 
So, we put the fear of us into our people, how are the plans? Any up for striking down the Crone?

Also @Powerofmind can we use look into the past to try and develop specific rituals, or does it simply give the most appropriate one?
 
So, we put the fear of us into our people, how are the plans? Any up for striking down the Crone?

Also @Powerofmind can we use look into the past to try and develop specific rituals, or does it simply give the most appropriate one?

All the ones trying to strike down the crone are dumb.

Risking it all on Blackening and trying to dominate when we don't have a proper perform skill, or even awe, trickery works at half of its score so its not ideal.

Reverse Loki. Problem solved!

I was more talking about knowing In character that sea turtles are a thing to have sex with.
 
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We could build a shrine on the back of a giant turtle.
Note: PoM has said that mobile shrines require high level tech and significant resource investment. Though he might have just meant that to apply to e.g. shrineships or something like that, not shrines that are allowed to be moved by some other means.

That's not a good idea, and I've explained why already.
Could you stop that? Poking individuals over how they vote isn't conducive to a quality atmosphere, especially if you are just telling people "you are wrong. Refer to my previous explanation on the subject."

Anyone voting this way will either have read your arguments already (in which case referencing or repeating the arguments is just condescending) or chose not to read them (in which case, telling people to read something they've decided not to is rude).
 
Note: PoM has said that mobile shrines require high level tech and significant resource investment. Though he might have just meant that to apply to e.g. shrineships or something like that, not shrines that are allowed to be moved by some other means.


Could you stop that? Poking individuals over how they vote isn't conducive to a quality atmosphere, especially if you are just telling people "you are wrong. Refer to my previous explanation on the subject."

Anyone voting this way will either have read your arguments already (in which case referencing or repeating the arguments is just condescending) or chose not to read them (in which case, telling people to read something they've decided not to is rude).

sure.

At anyrate I actually do need to sleep at somepoint.

So if someone asks to see my plan, would one of my supporters give it to them while I'm not here?
 
  • I don't believe we know all of her traits.
  • Even these traits have some capacity for Growth boosts (e.g. Spirit of Motherhood might be able to apply fertility blessings).
  • What makes you think that Saiga is "going to try to refuse"? We haven't seen him putting up any resistance so far.
1) True enough.
2) Spirit of Motherhood certainly would help. I retract the assertion that she can't fix the issue on her own eventually.
3) We've seen Saiga refuse when the welfare of his worshippers are in critical straits. Either way, she needs to send someone over to ask him(in which case we can waylay them) or she needs to come in person(in which case we go for her then)
I believe significant. I don't believe "almost double".
Ah, that, yes, I agree.
That's why I'm fueling up on foreign terror first, I doubt the buff is enough to overcome the long term loss of income.
If we screw up our Spirit-vs-Population actions (which were the ones I was talking about), the Crone comes out of this undamaged or only lightly damaged; that is what it means to screw up. I estimate the probability of this to be 10-50%.
I'm estimating somewhat differently. Between 2-3 Lures(which are not affected by being out of our domain) and 3 Floods, both augmented by two Moonlights, I estimate the approximate probability for the below outcomes:
-Light damage(as defined by the Crone not needing anything special to recover) - 10% - Requires failing both the Moonlights and Nox, then rolling poorly on the floods and lures.
-Modest damage(as defined by the Crone needing a turn or two of dedicated repair work to recover from, comparable to what Seski did to her) - 20% - Requires failing both the Moonlights and the Nox, then rolling averagely on the Floods and Lures
-Moderate damage(as defined by the Crone needing 3+ turns of work to turn it around, or taking greater risks to speed it up) - 40% - Success on one of the Moonlights and rolling well on the Floods and Lures, OR Success on both the Moonlights and rolling mediocre on the Floods and Lures OR success on the Nox and rolling crappily everywhere else
-Major damage(as defined by the Crone facing serious risk of dispersal) - 20% - Requires succeeding on the Nox and rolling okay on the attacks, or succeeding on both moons and rolling okay on the attacks.
-Catastrophic damage(as defined by the Crone being dispersed or her population wiped) - 10% - Requires success on all three buffs, then rolling decently or better. Maybe a Weird fires off.


The main thing is that if the Nox triggers, Atrrouska is fucked.
If we screw up our Spirit-vs-Spirit action (which is what I think you are talking about), best case we are hit with 1-2 light demands, worst case we are hit with what is effectively a magically-binding curse.
I think we're actually fairly secure on social dominance rolls now, since Moonlight buffs Trickery AND if we're initiating we can Trick her into losing her advantages.

I think there's a risk of dispersal by Second Magic laser, but unless Gaerig attacks at the height of noon for some reason, the ice disc should be much weaker. While if she tries to use moonlight to solarbeam us, I'd quote Slayers, "You might as well say hi, can I borrow your power to try to kill you with it?"

OH RIGHT:
I recall now!
Field Trip!
Seski rolled 14 vs Saitev's 9
And the girl just keeps on pranking.
Seski rolled 10 vs Fox Spirit's 11
And pranking.
Seski gains 8 Legend
Seski spends 2 legend; gains Perform (Primitive Instrument) 2, Survival 1
Seski rolled 10 vs Fox Spirit's 11 Trickery but she won the exchange.
Seski has Trickery 6. Assuming Fox has at least Trickery 1(but a Fox is likely to have at least 5):
Seski 10 => 50+6(Trickery) = 56
Fox 11 => 55+ 1|10 (Trickery) = 56|65
But to Win instead of Draw, she needs to roll better than that. Sesky must be at least 20 points higher than Fox.
We learned that the Eclipse "Just tipped her over into a win"

That means:
Seski 10+2(Moon)+2(Eclipses) => 79+6(Trickery) = 85
Fox 11 => 55+1|10(Trickery) = 56|65

If you calculate a Moonshine's bonus as +1 Strong bonus you get an exact match

I mean...without @Powerofmind confirming, i can never be sure of stuff like that. It's certainly not been listed outright, to my understanding...and considering last time i was active tonight @veekie was utterly sure of an innacurate understanding of how advanced skills work, i'll need some more evidence than "veekie says its obvious", no offense :p I admit i've generally been assuming its a narrative boost, if for no other reason than 1. its easier and 2. i've not had, say, a roil waters roll come up a moderate when the roll says it should be a minor, and needed to look for reasons why.
This is true, I've had to admit to being wrong fairly often. Doing this from mobile has some challenges when I'm relying on memory.
Clarification on...? What do you have in mind?
Powerofmind was evasive(and visibly exhausted) when answering the glacier shrine idea. I recall this last happened when I asked about the possibility of claiming the underwater temple and was proven completely wrong.

yeah, @veekie i admit this was just skimming because, you know, test i still need to take the time to write (it's not even hard, its just tedius and i have no motivation), but every time we've used moonlight so far, we've either failed, or had all relevant actions not list their success grade, so i really dont see how the hell you came up with "+1 strong modifier"...
See above.
 
However. Do Faith Spirits also need Fear Spirits? Saitev here seems happy to have us around, and Saiga is absolutely smitten, but the first might be mere sympathy and the second is a combination of coincidence and the fact that Saiga is bound into an unnatural state that we can help alleviate. More generally, are Fear spirits valuable to Faith spirits, or are they merely parasites who take but do not give, or swarms of pestilence whose sole purpose is to be thrown at an enemy before devouring them?
Faith Spirits do need it. After they deal with the basic Starting a Civ problems, they can fall into a comfortable rut...because Faith Spirits need Quests and New Powers to generate Legend. But a Faith Spirit fixes problems, and they can't see the products of their own problems. So they get stuck and stop growing without opposition. Faith Spirits tend to fall into a stable hierarchy, the top dog will tend to stay top dog, because any newcomers are too weak to compete, and picking up discounts take TIME.

Enter Fear spirits, which grow rapidly and generate quests, yet who usually burn out in a flash because they aren't sustainable.
 
Seski rolled 10 vs Fox Spirit's 11 Trickery but she won the exchange.
Seski has Trickery 6. Assuming Fox has at least Trickery 1(but a Fox is likely to have at least 5):
Seski 10 => 50+6(Trickery) = 56
Fox 11 => 55+ 1|10 (Trickery) = 56|65
But to Win instead of Draw, she needs to roll better than that. Sesky must be at least 20 points higher than Fox.
We learned that the Eclipse "Just tipped her over into a win"

That means:
Seski 10+2(Moon)+2(Eclipses) => 79+6(Trickery) = 85
Fox 11 => 55+1|10(Trickery) = 56|65

If you calculate a Moonshine's bonus as +1 Strong bonus you get an exact match
If we got +4 strong to trickery this turn, then our contest with saitev would not have been a minor failure:


Trickery rolled 13 vs 6
Minor Failure
So far:
13 -> 10 : 55
So for us to have a minor failure we need a difference of 10-19 iirc. So...at least 36, at most 45.
With no modifiers:
6 : 15 + 16 (skill) = 31.
With +4 strong:
6 -> 10 : 45 + 16 = 61, which would have been a tie.
 
... What the fuck? That insanely burning guy gif is far too appropriate.

Ok, we had a harvest moon, yes? Probably a good idea to use it.

Can we dump a fuckton of DE on blessing for fishing and navigating? Maybe collaborate and help out Saiga's village too?

Also, unless I'm reading things wrongly, but Avatar 7 and Influence 5 means we out power pretty much everyone around, yes?
No harvest moon, but Plan Calm and Storm has a lot of growth actions and sets up for better actions the next few turns. It also takes advantage of our larger Influence to take on the crone:)
So, we put the fear of us into our people, how are the plans? Any up for striking down the Crone?

Also @Powerofmind can we use look into the past to try and develop specific rituals, or does it simply give the most appropriate one?
Plan Calm and Storms does!;)l
 
If we got +4 strong to trickery this turn, then our contest with saitev would not have been a minor failure:


Trickery rolled 13 vs 6
Minor Failure
So far:
13 -> 10 : 55
So for us to have a minor failure we need a difference of 10-19 iirc. So...at least 36, at most 45.
With no modifiers:
6 : 15 + 16 (skill) = 31.
With +4 strong:
6 -> 10 : 45 + 16 = 61, which would have been a tie.
But.

Saitev was outside our Influence range and our Moonlight is Domestic. Fox was in our Influence range.
So of course we weren't getting the benefit of Moon for that contest
 
Seski rolled 10 vs Fox Spirit's 11 Trickery but she won the exchange.
Seski has Trickery 6. Assuming Fox has at least Trickery 1(but a Fox is likely to have at least 5):
Seski 10 => 50+6(Trickery) = 56
Fox 11 => 55+ 1|10 (Trickery) = 56|65
But to Win instead of Draw, she needs to roll better than that. Sesky must be at least 20 points higher than Fox.
We learned that the Eclipse "Just tipped her over into a win"

That means:
Seski 10+2(Moon)+2(Eclipses) => 79+6(Trickery) = 85
Fox 11 => 55+1|10(Trickery) = 56|65

If you calculate a Moonshine's bonus as +1 Strong bonus you get an exact match
Also your math is wrong anyway.

1. She tied in roll, which means anything from -9 to +9 difference ("Natural win for [a little girl to tie the fox spirit at his own game]", not an actual win)
Eclipse trolling the fox by buffing Seski enough to tie the check (a natural win for a 5 year old girl in the story books).

2. This is a normal trickery check, so its 2*skill, not 1*skill. Its 1*skill at the Awe+Unique Perform checks, and on blessings, not in general.
3. A roll of 10 turns into a 45, not a 50.
So at base Seski has:
10 : 45 + 12 (Skill*2) = 47.
Fox has 11 : 55 + 2 | 20 = 57 | 75
So without other mods, Fox has her beat by a minor success anyway.
That said, with +4 strong mod as you suggest:
10 -> 14 : 79 + 12 = 93. Which would be 2 degrees of success above anything less than Trickery 10, and a minor success against anything short of trickery 20, so...obviously not +4 strong mod. That said, there are a lot of possibilities, since we don't know what the fox's skill is-- +1 strong mod gets seksi 57, +2 gets her 64, for all we know that works out, but...we really have no way of knowing--could easily be +10/19/etc weak mod, or a mix of the two.
 
Also your math is wrong anyway.

1. She tied in roll, which means anything from -9 to +9 difference ("Natural win for [a little girl to tie the fox spirit at his own game]", not an actual win)


2. This is a normal trickery check, so its 2*skill, not 1*skill. Its 1*skill at the Awe+Unique Perform checks, and on blessings, not in general.
3. A roll of 10 turns into a 45, not a 50.
So at base Seski has:
10 : 45 + 12 (Skill*2) = 47.
Fox has 11 : 55 + 2 | 20 = 57 | 75
So without other mods, Fox has her beat by a minor success anyway.
That said, with +4 strong mod as you suggest:
10 -> 14 : 79 + 12 = 93. Which would be 2 degrees of success above anything less than Trickery 10, and a minor success against anything short of trickery 20, so...obviously not +4 strong mod. That said, there are a lot of possibilities, since we don't know what the fox's skill is-- +1 strong mod gets seksi 57, +2 gets her 64, for all we know that works out, but...we really have no way of knowing--could easily be +10/19/etc weak mod, or a mix of the two.
So what I think you're saying is that now is a good time to wreck her village, but not good enough to attempt to dominate her?
 
[X] Plan Attrouska, The Night Has Come For You!
This plan has us following the boom/bust strategy we're set up for, where we trade Pop modifier for lots of DE to go out and murder someone else on a horrific scale. The other grow plans just seem wrong-headed.

I mean, we voted for Gaerig to become the Goddess of the Mysteries of the Winter Night, what do we care about growing our worshipers? Our concerns are the mysteries and secrets of the sky, not the hunger and want of animals. And furthermore, we are literally married to the local spirit of subsistence fishers and hunters! Why are we throwing masses of DE into our relatively weak and inefficient growth actions when we can just give ~100 DE or whatever to Saiga to use in his growth blessings? With the damage we did, that's all he'll be doing. He'll gain more DE and produce growth progress than we will, and we can then ask for the DE back at the end of the turn or the next. I mean, what are the other spirits even for, if we're not going to treat them as the allies they are?

Also, veekie's plan has us birth a sibling to Seski, who is not only the most adorable person we've seen so far but also the most effective of our mortal followers.
 
So what I think you're saying is that now is a good time to wreck her village, but not good enough to attempt to dominate her?
Err...i mean, either way we're facing a penalty--weaker attacks from influence range, or the home shrine defense bonus to domination, which should be more than enough to counter our +2 strong god bonus...so definitely don't try to dominate or attack her home shrine directly. I personally prefer a home turn this turn, as my (unfortunately ignored) plan outline a while back laid out. I just haven't spent the time to compare the existing plans much--too much work. Critiquing basic rolling math is much easier to do, and also my self-professed job as High Priest of RNJesus, so i've done a bit of that between "How does <character> fulfill <section of monomyth> in Harry Potter?" questions :p
 
10 -> 14 : 79 + 12 = 93. Which would be 2 degrees of success above anything less than Trickery 10, and a minor success against anything short of trickery 20, so...obviously not +4 strong mod. That said, there are a lot of possibilities, since we don't know what the fox's skill is-- +1 strong mod gets seksi 57, +2 gets her 64, for all we know that works out, but...we really have no way of knowing--could easily be +10/19/etc weak mod, or a mix of the two.
Ah, yes, but Occam's Razor was applied, either Moonlights grant weak bonuses by a complex formula...or they grant a strong bonus based on the number of successes rolled.

This is fairly reasonable to assume, since we've seen during our conflict with Saiga that preceding rolls on an encounter converts successes on prior rolls to strong modifiers on later rolls. So we have both precedent on similar mechanics and it's mechanically simple.
 
So I checked the arguments against going for the Crone, and they seem to be:
1. It's risky (true)
2. We should prepare more.

Option 2 feels like a bad idea. Trying to be better in prep than a wizard, while spending a lot of our energy to "fix" things seems identical to "lets leave the wizard alone, it's not like she could cook something up". Long-term prep is advantage to Faith spirits, not Fear ones.

Also I have yet to hear a narrative reason for sitting back and helping people.

[X] veekie
 
a strong bonus based on the number of successes rolled.
...we got 6 total successes on moonlight (both major success iirc), dude. And then the eclipse rolls. Its not "Successes = Strong bonus" :p And considering PoM worded that roll comparison as "the eclipse got her over the top", i'm inclined to believe that just the regular moonlights wouldn't have been enough to tie, so...Again, we don't know enough to say. We get <some boost>--if nothing else its not more than +2 strong from our amazing rolls this turn, judging from the saitev rolls. So...ask PoM in the morning, but otherwise don't assume we'll get super giant bonuses on everything next turn, since even 2 Major success moonlights boosted by 2 eclipses only gave about +2 Strong worth of benefit.
 
This plan has us following the boom/bust strategy we're set up for, where we trade Pop modifier for lots of DE to go out and murder someone else on a horrific scale. The other grow plans just seem wrong-headed.
My plan does that too. As to giving Saiga DE and the taking back sounds like cheesing the system and I don't think Powerofmind will allow for that.

Err...i mean, either way we're facing a penalty--weaker attacks from influence range, or the home shrine defense bonus to domination, which should be more than enough to counter our +2 strong god bonus...so definitely don't try to dominate or attack her home shrine directly. I personally prefer a home turn this turn, as my (unfortunately ignored) plan outline a while back laid out. I just haven't spent the time to compare the existing plans much--too much work. Critiquing basic rolling math is much easier to do, and also my self-professed job as High Priest of RNJesus, so i've done a bit of that between "How does <character> fulfill <section of monomyth> in Harry Potter?" questions :p
Sooo, if we just attack her village it should be fine? If so I can switch out dominat to Travel to further mess with her village like we did with the fox. Should also grant us more advatages when we do confront her and gives me 6 more DE to incite further chaos in her village. I am doing a lot of growth actions that synergize rather well I think. Is ther a way to convince you?
 
Hmm--well we had at least *a* mod on our saitev rolls--without any, that was a moderate failure, 31 vs 55.
Hmm, Saiga was present there though, and his introduction to his friend might count as a bonus?
Err...i mean, either way we're facing a penalty--weaker attacks from influence range, or the home shrine defense bonus to domination, which should be more than enough to counter our +2 strong god bonus...so definitely don't try to dominate or attack her home shrine directly.
Not true on these counts:
-Distance: Attrouska is the same percentage of our Influence from us as we were from Saiga at the start. We had a -1 strong penalty from distance back then. We should still have a -1 strong penalty from distance, more than made up for by the tier bonus of -2 on her.
-Home shrine bonus vs domination: ...why do you think it's performing all those attacks? Force her to come out and face us outside her shrine(which, as removing a bonus from her, is a Trickery roll) while we pound her territory.

And of course, that's why it's dropping Nox and Moonlights - To give US more bonuses on the clash and weaken her position. Assuming she has the means to spend DE to counter these Influence attacks, it will leave her with less energy to use on our direct confrontation. And if she doesn't have the means to counter Moonlight...sucks to be her because it's coming up her ass.
 
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Alright I'm gonna flat out say it.

Don't fucking attack the crone, its dumb, we probably won't win the social fu, and will be magically screwed over because of it.


also, if our pop modifier drops anymore were screwed.

But no one apparently cares about that because you all just want to sate your bloodthirst and fuck the consequences.

people keep saying were gonna do monsters later, but people keep saying that, and we still haven't done anymore monsters since my first plan.

Stop lying, either do it, or stop saying your going to.

We're never going to get free turns where we can just do fun things without consequences, we have to multitask or else were just gonna be stuck doing the same boring shit over and over.
 
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Seski is the best, don't trash talk the girl who conned three spirits(Attrouska, Saitev, Fox, aka every single non-mom spirit she met) before she hit puberty.
...we got 6 total successes on moonlight (both major success iirc), dude. And then the eclipse rolls. Its not "Successes = Strong bonus" :p And considering PoM worded that roll comparison as "the eclipse got her over the top", i'm inclined to believe that just the regular moonlights wouldn't have been enough to tie, so...Again, we don't know enough to say. We get <some boost>--if nothing else its not more than +2 strong from our amazing rolls this turn, judging from the saitev rolls. So...ask PoM in the morning, but otherwise don't assume we'll get super giant bonuses on everything next turn, since even 2 Major success moonlights boosted by 2 eclipses only gave about +2 Strong worth of benefit.

Hmm, how about the following:
0) Moonlight rolls 1 success, granting a +1 Strong bonus to affected stuff
1) Eclipse rolls 2 successes.
2) Eclipse recursively buffs Moonlight, granting a +2 Strong bonus to the Moonlight roll.
3) If this bonus from Eclipse tips Moonlight over into the next success category, Moonlight will add another +1 Strong bonus to affected stuff.

This naturally limits bonus cascades, as the further you chain it the more diluted it gets.
 
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