Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Long time lurker here and in love with this quest.

[X] Close in, relying on Sixiang to keep it's toxic aura from affecting you, between your music and your subordinates ritualism, it should be possible to pacify the creature.

It seems this will be the hardest one to be successful if chosen, but I like how it would possibly inform Qi's character.
 
[X] Continue distracting the hill beast while your subordinates and Zhengui wall off the remaining exits from its valley, then vanish, and only engage again if it looks to be breaking out.

[X] Close in, relying on Sixiang to keep it's toxic aura from affecting you, between your music and your subordinates ritualism, it should be possible to pacify the creature.
 
[X] Close in, relying on Sixiang to keep it's toxic aura from affecting you, between your music and your subordinates ritualism, it should be possible to pacify the creature.

I have seen a lot of great arguments for this. Sure it might be impossible but we don't know that and I doubt there would be a vote that is entirely a trap. It really builds of off the fish encounter and lets everyone work together. Lets try it.
 
[X] Close in, relying on Sixiang to keep it's toxic aura from affecting you, between your music and your subordinates ritualism, it should be possible to pacify the creature.
 
[X] Close in, relying on Sixiang to keep it's toxic aura from affecting you, between your music and your subordinates ritualism, it should be possible to pacify the creature.
 
That could indeed be an interesting character development... in an arc designed for it. Like the last one, though that'd obviously be too soon. This arc started with exploring Ling Qi's discomforts and personal challenges with leadership. It's gone off the rails somewhat, but not in any fashion that coherently lends itself to the self-imposed duty of death dealer. The arc is crowded enough with discordant properties as it is that I think (re)introducing these themes would be a pacing misstep, both for the arc and the themes. Besides, I'd think it'd be more appropriate to really dig into those more once Hanyi's had a chance to advance a little bit, given their proximity to her own portfolio.
But there's narrative and character merit in Killing, it's not casual slaughter or 'generic murderhobo' unless you choose to be absolutely reductionist. It's valid to think it's too early, but I have to disagree. Hanyi, for all that it's been comical, has been presented this entire arc to be this sulking and petulant child absolutely convinced her big sis is too good for anyone (barring her). Seeing Ling Qi go all Ending, that seems the sort of thing to have weight to it to a spirit so impressionable as her- to see her Sister herald End for a hill (a pretty impressive specimen of a hill given the explosions and the heads) as her mother represented the End over an entire mountain. It's to see her sister as something more, even if only in the moment, and in doing so engender self reflection. And that's completely ignoring the possibility that she doesn't join in on the End action, and get a chance to examine what it means to her to be a spirit of Endings.

Furthermore, I'm fine with Ling Qi exploring this facet so relatively soon because it doesn't resolve it. It develops it and explores one spectrum of it, but establishing when killing and Ending is a kindness doesn't do anything to establish when Ling Qi thinks killing is wrong. There's still so much more to explore, especially given Ling Qi's own criminal history and how easy it would be to push the 'there I go but for the grace of god' angle given Ling Qi is already caught up on being a coward who was willing to lead others to their deaths in order to survive. So much to explore there, and see those who might be considered despicable as human from the eyes of someone who is in part defined by her monkey sphere.

I mentioned the killing angle, and you were right in that's a recent arc- but I don't think it's unfair to tie this all the way back to Ling Qi swearing fealty to Cai Renxiang and admitting she wasn't the kind of person who could believe in and fight for a greater good, something bigger than herself. To me at least, here is a chance for Ling Qi to knowingly choose to fight and kill for something bigger than her of her own volition. To see this spirit, a stranger, suffer- it avails her nearly nothing to kill it rather than leave it imprisoned and suffering- but she, perhaps uniquely has an opportunity to End it and it's suffering. To intuit a perspective by which she can connect to others on a grander level than the personal but far more visceral than the abstraction of society and people as a whole.

I prefer the Kill option, but I'm more than willing to accept that the other options are valid alternatives. I just reject that somehow applying a lens of 'character development' or 'narrative' invalidates it out of hand.
And if she was making that decision about something that she actually cared about. Say, idk, a person, then that would absolutely be meaningful?

But just killing a random dangerous spirit? Please. There is no conflict there. Ling Qi kills dangerous spirits all the time.

Indeed, such a fight fits very poorly with this arc since our minions can't do anything in that path. If we're going to have a fight here it should at least be one that focuses on her development as an officer and learning how to use her subordinates thus building upon the themes of this arc. Like any of the options but killing. Or a completely different encounter that they could actually contribute to.
Except she literally just got into discussion about how spirits can be every bit as sapient as her, and the ones that aren't often have the potential to be. It's meaningful because she's killed a bunch of spirits never considering their perspective. It's meaningful because as slow and big as this hill seems to her, she knows it can talk- that it can think and reason. And she knows it's suffering, suffering bad in a way you or I can scarcely imagine. Since when has Ling Qi paid attention to the state of a spirit she hasn't personally befriended or adopted?

Sometimes the fact you don't know the poor bastard looking down the barrel makes it meaningful because you make that choice with so much less information. As for your fixation on minions, *shrug* it's not my job to rationalize away all your misgivings, but sometimes it's important know what your subordinates are capable of, and when it's a matter to be handled on your own accord or to be delegated. Considering we can all acknowledge Ling Qi's solo aspect of this scouting excursion did get cut short- there's something to be said for this being a contrast in what Ling Qi can really do. Especially considering how limited she was in terms of flying and recon versus going all out with her battle tortoise and annoying kid sister in a brutal slugging match of attrition. I personally like the contrast of Ling Qi seeming level headed, diligent and capable but then exploring what rouses her to action, what elevates a matter beyond mere duty and professionalism into something their commander is invested in?
 
Except she literally just got into discussion about how spirits can be every bit as sapient as her, and the ones that aren't often have the potential to be. It's meaningful because she's killed a bunch of spirits never considering their perspective. It's meaningful because as slow and big as this hill seems to her, she knows it can talk- that it can think and reason. And she knows it's suffering, suffering bad in a way you or I can scarcely imagine. Since when has Ling Qi paid attention to the state of a spirit she hasn't personally befriended or adopted?
And there's no indication she particularly cares about it now either. Certainly, if one wants her to care about it, then voting to casually kill it is exactly the wrong way to engender that. And it's not like we care about the hill as a person either, nor is there any reason to expect us to.

The development to make such a choice meaningful doesn't exist yet. You bring up her recent discussions, but she hasn't even determined how she feels there yet. She certainly hasn't determined that she cares about all spirits as people or anything.

Of course, her deciding to treat this spirit as a person and trying to save it would be a very strong response, and a way of walking that path. Maybe she then tries her best to treat spirits decently. To befriend them and treat them as people with agency where possible. To take into account their desires and wills.

And then, maybe, she encounters a situation like this, and decides that the best thing to do for the person is to End them. That would be meaningful.

But we're not there right now. Right now, what we have is a hunter who goes out into the forest, and kills chipmonks and manages a forest for a living. It's a job, they're not particularly attached to it, and don't feel any special spiritual relationship to the chipmonks. It's just something they do to pay the bills. And one day they're out there patrolling the forest and they see a rabid chipmonk. They kill it because that's their job that they do every day. And it doesn't mean anything more than that.
 
[X] Close in, relying on Sixiang to keep it's toxic aura from affecting you, between your music and your subordinates ritualism, it should be possible to pacify the creature.
 
Gonna add my two cents into this argument.

Currently I'm leaning towards the pacify option because it sounds like the "interesting" option. I get that it's also the most risky and might even seem meaningless, hence why some people are avoiding this option, but Ling Qi placating the spirit and getting info out of it seemed profitable to me, since it's a pretty "different" take.

I'm not gonna be like Erebeal though and say Killing is irrelevant and boring. It's a freakin' fight scene. Ling Qi also just went through an arc in the last turn where she got traumatized from killing BINO and his bandits. And sure, she killed tons of spirits before, but that was before she got through that Cai arc, heck
Ling Qi dipped her head in acknowledgement. She supposed that was what it came down too, a person was different than people. Yet, it still bothered her now that she thought about it. Now that she had been forced to acknowledge it. Did every spirit beast, count? Every simple animal? Every bit of quasi active elemental qi? Were barbarians supposed to be people too? If so, what did that mean for her current conundrum?
it gets to this point where she starts questioning stuff like this.
So to me, killing the spirit is more of a resolution about what she must do. It's also a simple pragmatic solution. "Get rid of the one causing the problem -> Problem solved". Keep in mind that through out all of this, the hill is also crying and shouting in pain, which could possibly burn into her conscience.
Even from here, she could sense the spirits anguish, it made no effort to cloak its spirit. The whole of its being was suffused with pain. Frankly, if she could not sense its unwavering well of vitality, she would have thought that it was dying.

On the other hand, pacify leads to the route where Ling Qi tries to solve the problem through other means (other than killing), another angle towards Ling Qi's hungover with killing, which could be interesting considering SSC, her future cultivation art that could enable her to dabble with spirits, as well as her role that Cai would eventually assigns her to. Of course, being too sympathetic has its own fair share of problems, but that arc could lead to some interesting developments. It also makes me think of how Liao Zhu feels bad about killing the barb, for the sake of infiltration and getting information he needs
He glanced back at the scorch mark where the corpse had been. Brother, now he supposed.

"You have better things to do than mourn enemies," Tengjing grunted. "You're going to die if you stay on that path."
whereas when we switch to here, should we choose the pacify option, we could see Ling Qi trying to solve things through a more peaceful manner. It also has the possibility to gain more information (or at least it seems like it to me) by learning firsthand what's up with corruption and stuff, aside from inputs of higher-ups and Liao Zhu.
 
[X] Continue distracting the hill beast while your subordinates and Zhengui wall off the remaining exits from its valley, then vanish, and only engage again if it looks to be breaking out.

[X] Go in for the kill, and call Zhengui to help. You have underestimated your own killing power before, and the things cultivation is not superior to your own. Hill or not, you can End it.
 
But there's narrative and character merit in Killing, it's not casual slaughter or 'generic murderhobo' unless you choose to be absolutely reductionist. It's valid to think it's too early, but I have to disagree. Hanyi, for all that it's been comical, has been presented this entire arc to be this sulking and petulant child absolutely convinced her big sis is too good for anyone (barring her). Seeing Ling Qi go all Ending, that seems the sort of thing to have weight to it to a spirit so impressionable as her- to see her Sister herald End for a hill (a pretty impressive specimen of a hill given the explosions and the heads) as her mother represented the End over an entire mountain. It's to see her sister as something more, even if only in the moment, and in doing so engender self reflection. And that's completely ignoring the possibility that she doesn't join in on the End action, and get a chance to examine what it means to her to be a spirit of Endings.

Furthermore, I'm fine with Ling Qi exploring this facet so relatively soon because it doesn't resolve it. It develops it and explores one spectrum of it, but establishing when killing and Ending is a kindness doesn't do anything to establish when Ling Qi thinks killing is wrong. There's still so much more to explore, especially given Ling Qi's own criminal history and how easy it would be to push the 'there I go but for the grace of god' angle given Ling Qi is already caught up on being a coward who was willing to lead others to their deaths in order to survive. So much to explore there, and see those who might be considered despicable as human from the eyes of someone who is in part defined by her monkey sphere.

I mentioned the killing angle, and you were right in that's a recent arc- but I don't think it's unfair to tie this all the way back to Ling Qi swearing fealty to Cai Renxiang and admitting she wasn't the kind of person who could believe in and fight for a greater good, something bigger than herself. To me at least, here is a chance for Ling Qi to knowingly choose to fight and kill for something bigger than her of her own volition. To see this spirit, a stranger, suffer- it avails her nearly nothing to kill it rather than leave it imprisoned and suffering- but she, perhaps uniquely has an opportunity to End it and it's suffering. To intuit a perspective by which she can connect to others on a grander level than the personal but far more visceral than the abstraction of society and people as a whole.

I prefer the Kill option, but I'm more than willing to accept that the other options are valid alternatives. I just reject that somehow applying a lens of 'character development' or 'narrative' invalidates it out of hand.

Except she literally just got into discussion about how spirits can be every bit as sapient as her, and the ones that aren't often have the potential to be. It's meaningful because she's killed a bunch of spirits never considering their perspective. It's meaningful because as slow and big as this hill seems to her, she knows it can talk- that it can think and reason. And she knows it's suffering, suffering bad in a way you or I can scarcely imagine. Since when has Ling Qi paid attention to the state of a spirit she hasn't personally befriended or adopted?

Sometimes the fact you don't know the poor bastard looking down the barrel makes it meaningful because you make that choice with so much less information. As for your fixation on minions, *shrug* it's not my job to rationalize away all your misgivings, but sometimes it's important know what your subordinates are capable of, and when it's a matter to be handled on your own accord or to be delegated. Considering we can all acknowledge Ling Qi's solo aspect of this scouting excursion did get cut short- there's something to be said for this being a contrast in what Ling Qi can really do. Especially considering how limited she was in terms of flying and recon versus going all out with her battle tortoise and annoying kid sister in a brutal slugging match of attrition. I personally like the contrast of Ling Qi seeming level headed, diligent and capable but then exploring what rouses her to action, what elevates a matter beyond mere duty and professionalism into something their commander is invested in?
I just don't see that the work has been done to elevate this spirit in particular to that level of consideration on Ling Qi's part. Remember that she's here in the context of her sect duties which colours everything she does. The exercise is like an extended, mandatory sect mission. Heck, she and her team have already killed a bunch of maddened and aggressive spirits with barely a mention. Putting down dangerous spirits is just part of the job, Ling Qi has been treating it like that during the event, and there's no reason that she would treat this occasion differently. The groundwork isn't really there for it.
 
[X] Close in, relying on Sixiang to keep it's toxic aura from affecting you, between your music and your subordinates ritualism, it should be possible to pacify the creature.

I just think that pacifying is the most interesting option, it also leans more into Ling Qi being a spirit-talker which I want to push more.
 
[X] Close in, relying on Sixiang to keep it's toxic aura from affecting you, between your music and your subordinates ritualism, it should be possible to pacify the creature.
 
And there's no indication she particularly cares about it now either. Certainly, if one wants her to care about it, then voting to casually kill it is exactly the wrong way to engender that. And it's not like we care about the hill as a person either, nor is there any reason to expect us to.

The development to make such a choice meaningful doesn't exist yet. You bring up her recent discussions, but she hasn't even determined how she feels there yet. She certainly hasn't determined that she cares about all spirits as people or anything.

Of course, her deciding to treat this spirit as a person and trying to save it would be a very strong response, and a way of walking that path. Maybe she then tries her best to treat spirits decently. To befriend them and treat them as people with agency where possible. To take into account their desires and wills.

And then, maybe, she encounters a situation like this, and decides that the best thing to do for the person is to End them. That would be meaningful.

But we're not there right now. Right now, what we have is a hunter who goes out into the forest, and kills chipmonks and manages a forest for a living. It's a job, they're not particularly attached to it, and don't feel any special spiritual relationship to the chipmonks. It's just something they do to pay the bills. And one day they're out there patrolling the forest and they see a rabid chipmonk. They kill it because that's their job that they do every day. And it doesn't mean anything more than that.
It's interesting how the update specifically notes that she's sensing it's suffering, and the actual term that Ling Qi uses is End, not kill. There's nothing casual about this. The assumption that this is Ling Qi killing something simply because its in her way is absolutely absurd and founded on false assumptions. The motivations that would lead to your supposed pacification because of sympathy and empathy oft not found in Ling Qi don't suddenly vanish because she chose a different option.

The cocktail of heady emotions that leads Ling Qi to even consider going for the pacification route don't vanish, Ling Qi's state at this point is fairly established with Ling Qi feeling something for this creature's suffering being something of a given. Considering she didn't give a rat's ass about all the other gribblies she murdered and burned on this outing present with the same corruption. Choosing to go for the End doesn't suddenly and retroactively make Ling Qi care less, or discard all those emotions in favor of casual butchery akin to massacring a pest like you equate it to.

She's either trying to be diligent by simply containing the problem, trying to be compassionate by peacefully subduing the creature, or trying to End the creature in part for it's own sake (because it's an objective fact Ling Qi consider's it's suffering to be relevant to her internal decision-making). Her motivations are established, her priorities are what's in question and there's nothing of the callous indifference to killing present in the latter option that you are so fixated on. Dismissing meaning that's been established just because it's being used for the purpose of arguing your viewpoints doesn't do your arguments any credit.

I just don't see that the work has been done to elevate this spirit in particular to that level of consideration on Ling Qi's part. Remember that she's here in the context of her sect duties which colours everything she does. The exercise is like an extended, mandatory sect mission. Heck, she and her team have already killed a bunch of maddened and aggressive spirits with barely a mention. Putting down dangerous spirits is just part of the job, Ling Qi has been treating it like that during the event, and there's no reason that she would treat this occasion differently. The groundwork isn't really there for it.
That's a matter of opinion. Ling Qi has seen that spirits of this nature are sapient and intelligent just earlier this arc, unlike a lot of the murderous gribblies- and that Ling Qi noted it's suffering. It's suffering is relevant to Ling Qi's internal decision making here, for reasons that will probably only be explored after the fact- but it's there. The same impetus for trying to subdue the hill so that it might be potentially purified and saved doesn't just become irrelevant because we chose to End it. Just like the impetus to try and help people during the Bloody Moon dream wasn't relevant just because Ling Qi chose the cowardly way.
 
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[X] Go in for the kill, and call Zhengui to help. You have underestimated your own killing power before, and the things cultivation is not superior to your own. Hill or not, you can End it.
 
[X] Close in, relying on Sixiang to keep it's toxic aura from affecting you, between your music and your subordinates ritualism, it should be possible to pacify the creature.
 
No time for a full breakdown, work is still too hectic but the OPTIONS I can do:

[] Continue distracting the hill beast while your subordinates and Zhengui wall off the remaining exits from its valley, then vanish, and only engage again if it looks to be breaking out.

Strategy: Containment. Write off the region the spirit is in, barricade the valleys so that the toxic fluids don't spread, and wait for the main army to show up to nuke it clean afterwards.

Primary challenge: Evasion. Ling Qi must engage and keep it engaged alone and unaided because her team is busy walling off the valley.

Risks:
-While Zhengui and Mo Lian can wall off the valleys, this thing is a freaking hill. I would not be surprised if it can burrow, or climb over the barricades, unless we dome it over. Its not trying at the moment because its trying to swat Ling Qi.
-While it seemed to ignore them in favor of chasing Ling Qi at the moment, if its movement is obstructed, it'd probably try to remove the impediment. Which, if said impediment is a dam holding its goo back...splash.
-The taint seems to be subterranean in origin and Ling Qi ALREADY contained another zone by burning it clean, I'm not sure how much barricading it off is going to help.


[] Go in for the kill, and call Zhengui to help. You have underestimated your own killing power before, and the things cultivation is not superior to your own. Hill or not, you can End it.

Strategy: Elimination. It'd take a while, but Ling Qi CAN likely kill it, and given that the toxic matter takes the form of a blue slime infusing the rock and sprays of black liquid, freezing it would also contain the damage

Primary challenge: Stamina and DPS. Actively trying to kill it will likely be expensive in qi, and the longer the fight drags on the less usable the area's geography will be.

Risks:
-So, those valleys we mapped? We're probably going to need to map them again, with the degree depending on how long the fight takes.
-So take a note here(to clarify, this is speculation based on text evidence, not fearmongering to get what I wanted to vote, I only arrived at this conclusion after the third reread and originally was intending to approval vote both Kill and Pacify because they sounded interesting):
--Its a Turtledragon made of Bone(Death) and Rock(Earth), laced with Blue Slime(Stellar). The unknown but universally toxic miasma reminds Ling Qi of Suyin's lab, i.e. its the same stuff the Skaven were using.
--Its a halfway dead hill with some of the rock turned to bone, and laced with Stellar contamination. Remember the hill we talked to? The moving hills say "It hurts". They aren't very wordy, but pain is universally an indicator of damage, and moving in response to pain is an attempt to avoid further damage. This is probably not the only one here, its likely just the one which hit the tipping point first.
--Are we sure that freezing it will kill the Hill and the Blue Slime? Because if we don't kill the whole thing we potentially have an Undead Meteor Dragon, or the opposite, where we kill the slime and are left with a confused and hurt hill(which is good!). I'm not actually too concerned about the goo spilling out if we kill it, Ling Qi's kills are all spiritual stilling, whatever she kills tend to die in place with the physical shell intact.

[] Close in, relying on Sixiang to keep it's toxic aura from affecting you, between your music and your subordinates ritualism, it should be possible to pacify the creature.

Strategy: Pacification. Music element allows communication despite barriers, we can understand the MEANING of Cloud Nomads talking despite not speaking a word of Cloud via Music, and we were only recently informed that spirits . Likewise, music is known to pacify angry spirits, seemingly regardless of the type of spirit, even if its temporary.

Primary Challenge: Spirit Ken and our best Music skill, plus our subordinates Spirit Ken rituals. Pure defense wise we are fairly confident in tanking whatever it can dish.

Risks:
-Death qi. The Hill is already dying, and is now part-Death spirit. Death spirits are supposed to be 'weird', but while our usage of Endings stuff gives us a partial point for understanding, thats a lot of ifs and maybes with communicating when we're already relying on the Music channel.
-The spirit is currently like a giant inflamed pimple, and thus extra sensitive to disturbances. This means that it should be unusually easy to communicate with, compared to most Hill Spirits, simply because its so uncomfortable its noticing everything. But that also means that its very easy to piss off.
-The Hill is a gestalt entity comprised of all its rock and soil spirits. It is possible that after we pacify the Hill part the Death and Stellar part will rip itself free to keep attacking us. That's PROBABLY a good thing in that it should be less stupidly durable without tons of stone to freeze, but the fight would be hard due to spending qi defending while we talk it down.
-This is likely to be SLOW. While the lack of trying to actively kill it means that damage will be contained, we can expect to spend a lot of time here getting through, and then talking it down.

I'm ignoring reward because well, we're looking to how to best resolve it, not how to score skill advances or loot.


So for now conclusion is to try to pacify it. Its currently fixated on Ling Qi and...Sempai is already on his way back, with a specialization in the Moon of Diplomacy. If we fail to pacify it, he'd be well suited to either putting it down or talking it down.


[X] Close in, relying on Sixiang to keep it's toxic aura from affecting you, between your music and your subordinates ritualism, it should be possible to pacify the creature.
 
[X] Close in, relying on Sixiang to keep it's toxic aura from affecting you, between your music and your subordinates ritualism, it should be possible to pacify the creature.
 
[X] Go in for the kill, and call Zhengui to help. You have underestimated your own killing power before, and the things cultivation is not superior to your own. Hill or not, you can End it.
 
You know when pacification would be a much more attractive choice? When the following apply:
  • we're actually running SSC
  • Are at cap C or B spirit ken
  • Aren't putting a Yellow subordinate at increased risk and exposure to a doubly toxic environment
  • Not risking the whole point of the job on a prospect frankly unlikely to work (there's no containment if we fail to pacify and we'd be too tired to kill)
You want the responsible adult choice? Vote containment and wait for Cai and the rest to get here and nuke it. Otherwise let us just have this kaiju battle that Zhengui can massively benefit from, and LQ can exercise some moral judgement that yes, sometimes an End is the appropriate choice.
 
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[x] Continue distracting the hill beast while your subordinates and Zhengui wall off the remaining exits from its valley, then vanish, and only engage again if it looks to be breaking out.
 
[X] Go in for the kill, and call Zhengui to help. You have underestimated your own killing power before, and the things cultivation is not superior to your own. Hill or not, you can End it.
 
[X] Close in, relying on Sixiang to keep it's toxic aura from affecting you, between your music and your subordinates ritualism, it should be possible to pacify the creature.
 
[X] Go in for the kill, and call Zhengui to help. You have underestimated your own killing power before, and the things cultivation is not superior to your own. Hill or not, you can End it.
 
[X] Close in, relying on Sixiang to keep it's toxic aura from affecting you, between your music and your subordinates ritualism, it should be possible to pacify the creature.

Why is everyone getting vicious in their arguments? It's not that bad!
 
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