Also dangit, I knew we should have gone patron of the arts!
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
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- Location
- PA
I blame the 8 turns spent healing from the Flames of the Blade.
- Location
- Space
Yeah this feels like the Ya misunderstanding imperial cultivation. They form higher realms by voltroning together, so attacks on population to weaken future voltrons makes perfect sense, but imperial cultivation doesn't work like that. Mortals are important for personal and religious reasons and are a long term net asset as they produce both occasional cultivation materials and occasional talents, but in short time frames they're not really militarily significant except through morale impact so this reads as simple insult.
Cecylene
Eternal Idea Engine
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Pronouns
- He/They
Actually now that I'm giving it thought, this is very deliberate to provoke a response.
The Ya want to show that the Emerald Seas don't care about its mortals. They likely plan to force "won every battle, lost the war" dilemma on the ES by breaking the mortal will to cooperate or fight for their lords. The Ya can give the mortals the power to strike against their callous lords, and the more the ES nobility tries to clamp down and crush the Ya the more mortals are going to be willing to try and force the nobles to surrender.
It's a brutal and cunning strategy that relies on the ES being willing to fight a war that isn't hurting their upper ranks and more powerful but is decimating their lower ranks and the land itself.
The Ya want to show that the Emerald Seas don't care about its mortals. They likely plan to force "won every battle, lost the war" dilemma on the ES by breaking the mortal will to cooperate or fight for their lords. The Ya can give the mortals the power to strike against their callous lords, and the more the ES nobility tries to clamp down and crush the Ya the more mortals are going to be willing to try and force the nobles to surrender.
It's a brutal and cunning strategy that relies on the ES being willing to fight a war that isn't hurting their upper ranks and more powerful but is decimating their lower ranks and the land itself.
If the Ya don't understand something as basic as mortals being meaningless when it comes to Imperial war capabilities then they are stupid beyond my ability to express it in written language.
Varder
Tired Cultist
- Location
- Hell
What did the ith-what's-her-name Ling Qi spoke to said about why they surrendered? Godwar should only be risked in the face of complete extermination. I imagine Ya needed to up the stakes to be able to escalate their own military and not face an uprising in their own lands.
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I wouldn't bet any money into the Ya-Lith being so utterly ignorant and uninformed of how the human's society is structured.
Not when they have traitors like Yan Renshu at their service and they know how to target infraestructure like the sewers and can even pull stuff like that recent attack using mortals as vectors.
My guess is that they want the situation to become so dire that the entirety of their 7 cities agree that they need to go all out or face extermination.
Their higher realms prowess aren't individuals, it arises from the "consensus" of their citizens.
That Ha embassador we talked with last time commented the Ya were already at the limit of consensus size-wise and, judging by the conversations we eavesdropped while infiltrating the underground, many of them aren't willing to sacrifice their life-span to join the increased war-efforts.
So they simply won't let them have any choice.
It's exactly the same stunt Deep Waters tried to pull with the Meng.
Not when they have traitors like Yan Renshu at their service and they know how to target infraestructure like the sewers and can even pull stuff like that recent attack using mortals as vectors.
My guess is that they want the situation to become so dire that the entirety of their 7 cities agree that they need to go all out or face extermination.
Their higher realms prowess aren't individuals, it arises from the "consensus" of their citizens.
That Ha embassador we talked with last time commented the Ya were already at the limit of consensus size-wise and, judging by the conversations we eavesdropped while infiltrating the underground, many of them aren't willing to sacrifice their life-span to join the increased war-efforts.
So they simply won't let them have any choice.
It's exactly the same stunt Deep Waters tried to pull with the Meng.
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In this case it's pretty clear cut miscommunication ya. For the ith this kind of tactic would represent an existential threat. The problem is that they lack the perspective to realize the nature of the Empires caste system. Which is a horrendously obvious oversight by their collaborators.
They really do have their heads up their own asses
Could also be that they were intentionally misinformed by their human helpers. Explaining Imperial logistics and layouts is one thing, but given recent events, it wouldn't surprise me if Yan Renshu intentionally focused on specific aspects of the mortal and Cultivator interaction in the Empire.
Depends on how many actual Cultivators the Ya have as informants and how those interacted with the higher ranking Cultivators in power.
That feels like it would be complicated by how popular Cai Shenhua is and by the populations experience with the Hui's "games".
Also keep in mind the differences in military logistics. The Ya-Lith-Kai benefits more from a short but very high intensity war, they cannot mobilize their White equivalents for very long, so they want either extremely extended low level skirmishes(only possible if neither can touch each other's core assets sensibly) or else a massive set piece battle.
Meanwhile the ES is perfectly happy to spend the next 3 decades in a drawn out inter Sovereign slugging match.
Meanwhile the ES is perfectly happy to spend the next 3 decades in a drawn out inter Sovereign slugging match.
Cecylene
Eternal Idea Engine
- Location
- Massachusetts
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- He/They
The intent could be to make Cai Shenhua look like she's not as different than the Hui, but there's only so much fine detail than can actually survive implementation because war is all giving orders that survive the game of telephone that is
High Command gives strategic goal to Field Commanders
Field Commanders determine method for accomplishing strategic goal.
Field Commanders give orders to their regiments/battalions.
Regiment/Battalion Commanders organize for the accomplishment of their orders, without concern for the Strategic Goal because they are only responsible for their orders.
Platoons Execute the orders given to them by Regiment/Battallion Command.
Enemies Response occurs before, during, and after operation that outside your control. Must be responded to in situ.
Results are logged and fed back up the chain to High Command.
This game of telephone and spheres of influence and not seeing/being given the whole picture is why War is a complicated mess to begin with.
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
Seems like a Pearl Harbor kind of situation tbh. Thinking you can do something and actually being able to do something are very different beasts.
That oafish goon infected us
- Location
- Washington
I mean, they MAY be trying this, but that's basically a terror bombing strategy and Terror Bombing Has Never Worked, it basically always galvanizes the civilian population. Of course, people kept trying terror bombing despite terror bombing never working, so like I say, they may be TRYING this.
The Ha under Xiangmen thought they had a shot at beating Shenhua, but didn't because even victory would have been ruinous. Sure, could just have been them telling themselves that to make bending the knee sting less, but that that was even a thought means that their god must be peak Prism or early White or it wouldn't be a fight but a curbstomp.
And the Ha are three communities that came together to form a city. The Ya are a full league, seven complete cities. If they were bigger they'd have to create a pantheon of gods. So I wouldn't be surprised if their god in his full glory is peak White or close to it.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
True. But it is likely they know more about our high-end than we know about theirs. After all, I don't think the entire ES put together could take the heavenly pillar, and we know the ith have already destroyed one.
So the question this should prompt is, "how can we attack their unity?"
Yggdrasil is wounded but not dead, and I don't think the Ith'ia were the ones who damaged it.
I would need to look for the chapter, but aren't the Ha 3 cities, thus their god is "Ha of the three hearts" or something like that?
- Location
- Washington
Yeah the story we were presented was basically The Ith Came Into Existence BECAUSE The Heavenly Pillar Was Destroyed (or rather, greatly damaged)
Threads 214-Friend and Foe 3 - Forge of Destiny
There was one more thing she needed to ask, if she was to wrap her head around these creatures as something more than foes. “When I infiltrated…” Ling (...)
www.royalroad.com
- Location
- Colorado
It seems likely that their god is peak White, but the way their god needs a collective consensus to emerge doesn't seem to leave room for lower Sovereigns to be left over to back them up in a fight. That 'guy' who fought Jiao and Xin is probably the avatar of one of their 7 cities, but if he's doing the fusion dance to summon their super-god he shouldn't be there anymore. The Emerald Seas is in a relatively bad position compared to the other Imperial provinces when it comes to Sovereign population, but Shenhua can still theoretically come to that fight with Diao Linqin, Yuan He, and Sima Jiao backing her up.
If they coordinate well enough with the 12 Stars they might be able to avoid getting ganged up on, but it doesn't seem like they've got a particularly close alliance yet.
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Reads absolutely like a request thats expected to be refused and delightful in how you can read the layers.
Do the ith misunderstand the cultural hierarchy of the surface? Do they understand, and are making a political bullshit overture? Do the Iith have WMD's that the surface is too arrogant and to self grandizing to recognize?
Does Shenhua's way leave her vulnerable to a culture that uses self-sacrifice as a method of cultivation?
Himmelhand
Giant Sinkhole 2020
- Location
- Midwestern US
We should definitely ask the Ha what has caused leagues to come apart in the past.
It would be tougher for them to drive their own people up the escalation ladder to godwar if we declare a clear, definitive line that we will establish through force (as long as that line falls somewhere short of extermination). If we can state axiomatically that we will not overstep that line without a compelling reason, then it would force them to confront the cost of ramping up and fighting versus the certainty of keeping clear of our position.
It would be tougher for them to drive their own people up the escalation ladder to godwar if we declare a clear, definitive line that we will establish through force (as long as that line falls somewhere short of extermination). If we can state axiomatically that we will not overstep that line without a compelling reason, then it would force them to confront the cost of ramping up and fighting versus the certainty of keeping clear of our position.
- Location
- Europe
I'm not sure what they think this will do? A broadly uncontested Imperial power isn't going to accept this, and their attack was hardly crippling to the ES, let alone the empire in full.
It's not like Shenhua lacks experience with ruthless and cruel opponents. Taking down the Hui would have involved no less, and likely far more, horrific and enraging attacks than this. This might make her angry, but it shouldn't make her less effective or she would have died a while ago.
Further, it's not like the ES military requires significant civilian buy in. What are they gonna do, leave their cities and die in the wilderness? The Ith won't have the logistical capacity to safeguard large parts of the civilian population if it comes to that, so it's not like they can refuse support even if they did want throw their lot in with the inhuman underneath. Their ability to make propaganda stick is always going to be inferior to the ES and imperial institutions, just on the basis of human bias.
I mean, what's their plan here? Even if they have some method to reliably take out Shenhua and Shenhua doesn't make that victory pyrrhic with her own tricks, the rest of the Empire isn't going to take that lying down.
Expecting reason from polities and political processes is a fools errand, but man. I feel bad for the random Ith civilian getting caught in the middle of their governments inexplicable urge to find out. The humans and spirits too, of course, but that goes without saying.