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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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@yrsillar
Sorry if these things have already been asked, but I had a couple of questions about fief dev.

1. When do upkeep costs/resource production occur for new buildings and upgrades? Is it at the end of the month they're built or the month after?
2. Are the Ore Refining and Smithy projects locked solely behind Iron Mining, or could we also get them via Silver Mining?
 
Hellbobr said:
Without it we won't be able to do any project next month. Or at least we won't be able to do 2 projects. Our resources are spent.
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There are actually several ways to afford 3 projects so we can take CoCW next turn instead, but for the moment we actually want to minimize projects until we get the Admin bonus back up.

Unfortunately the winning option is wasteful and will force us to pay for 2 projects at full cost instead of discounted.
 
o11c said:
There are actually several ways to afford 3 projects so we can take CoCW next turn instead, but for the moment we actually want to minimize projects until we get the Admin bonus back up.

Unfortunately the winning option is wasteful and will force us to pay for 2 projects at full cost instead of discounted.
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I mean, the blatantly obvious thing is not that people don't understand value, it's that they as voters value different things. In this case they value wanting to see the Snowblossom Meditations storyline as quickly as possible, presumably.

That has no in-universe mechanical value, but they are all readers/voters anyways...
 
o11c said:
There are actually several ways to afford 3 projects so we can take CoCW next turn instead, but for the moment we actually want to minimize projects until we get the Admin bonus back up.

Unfortunately the winning option is wasteful and will force us to pay for 2 projects at full cost instead of discounted.
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For the last time, Granary replaces the old Admin bonus, not adds to it.

Every time that comes up again, I get a little angrier.
 
o11c said:
Unfortunately the winning option is wasteful and will force us to pay for 2 projects at full cost instead of discounted.
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We have the ability to get a pile of money whenever we want. Optimal budget planning doesn't matter anymore. I care more about cool spirit seeker scenes than discounts.
 
CedeTheBees said:
We have the ability to get a pile of money whenever we want. Optimal budget planning doesn't matter anymore. I care more about cool spirit seeker scenes than discounts.
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It does matter because the admin efficiency bonuses give us the ability to use fewer actions on Cai Wealth.

That being said, yes, in the grand scheme of things a month or two here doesn't really mean a lot.
 
Alectai said:
For the last time, Granary replaces the old Admin bonus, not adds to it.

Every time that comes up again, I get a little angrier.
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The analysis is still correct. The earlier we get granary and then admin expansion up, the earlier we get our admin efficiency reductions back. Delaying it a turn does indeed mean that we have another turn without the reduction.

That being said, I think that from an RP perspective we have other stuff we want to prioritise more here, even if getting the granary and upgrades is a priority. It would be more "efficient" to go granary -> admin + meditations rather than meditations -> granary + ? -> admin + ? but eh
 
The problem is, that's assuming that through the power of waiting several extra months for Meditation, it will therefore increase in narrative content and value. The Marshmallow Test is waiting fifteen minutes to get two marshmallows or eating one right now... but if someone doesn't actually get a thrill from mechanically optimal play, what is gained by waiting several in-universe weeks to get a storyline they really want to see?

E: To clarify, there are people who get a thrill from mechanically optimal play, from working with the system in such a way as to do the best possible thing. That's completely valid, don't get me wrong.
 
It's also unknown how long Snowblossom Meditation will keep: For all we know it will start to get harder if we wait too long, especially given LQ is now cleared to do it and no longer has an excuse, and the various expansions going on?
 
LittenLeKitten said:
@yrsillar
Sorry if these things have already been asked, but I had a couple of questions about fief dev.

1. When do upkeep costs/resource production occur for new buildings and upgrades? Is it at the end of the month they're built or the month after?
2. Are the Ore Refining and Smithy projects locked solely behind Iron Mining, or could we also get them via Silver Mining?
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Generally I do all the resource production/costs when I update the new construction so I only have to change things once. The industry projects are gated behind iron specifically.
 
The Laurent said:
Just by taking these two:

Field Infrastructure: Improved tools, construction and the addition of poultry and plow animals to existing fields to improve the efficiency of each plot of farmland

Cost 45 Material, 10 Agriculture

Increase Production of Fields Manpower by .5 per manpower


Implement Bai Clan Soil Studies: Using the methods and fertilizers described in the notes you purchase from Bai Xia Lushen, together with Zhengui, the fertility and productivity of your fields can be significantly increased, along with resistance to Disease spirit and parasite infestations

Cost: 45 Agriculture. 1 Month

Increase Productivity of Fields by .75 per manpower. Adds a 0.1 wealth upkeep per manpower employed in Fields Slots. Negates plant blight based negative events.

We'd go, with changing nothing else from -.7 Ag a month to, like, +3 a month.

But you'll note that +3 a month would mean we'd be spending something like 18-19 months just regaining the lost agriculture in order for it to actually be "worth it."
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Eh, fishing boats costs less and gives us a close amount of Agri together with meditations, which also increase manpower capacity, and leads to further improvements which the fields don't seen to have available. Not to say its not worth it doing the fields, but the investment on the docks might be considerably better for now, especially if the snowblossom shrine also gives some bonus there
 
agumentic said:
It's not a big deal if people fail the marshmallow test on a secondary system, but it's still pretty annoying.
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The simple fact of the matter is that the mechanics don't cover everything. Indeed, the fief mechanics are deliberately simplified and abstracted to reduce bookkeeping since it's not the focus of the quest.

In-character managing our relationship with Snowblossom Lake is important to the town's success, and is something that we've been having to put off working on because we were laid up. Tackling it now that we're fit for duty makes sense.
 
agumentic said:
It's not a big deal if people fail the marshmallow test on a secondary system, but it's still pretty annoying.
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It's not even mechanically better tbh. Yeah, it's more efficient resource wise, but meditations get us out of the Agri deficit and secure the relationship with the most important spirit for the Hamlet, both of which are worth more to us then 10 more Agri and 10 more material
 
Erebeal said:
Tbf, the agri deficit is also more of an RP issue than a mechanical issue.
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It has no stated consequences, true, but it doesn't mean it won't cause any. A settlement that consumes more food than in produces, especially a small border one, if far less secure and attractive then one that has ample production as well as stockpiles of food. Going on with the deficit might make it harder to get more pops, for example, or lower happiness, or make negative events worse
 
Yeah. Ultimately, even if it doesn't really have a meaningful mechanical effect, it would still be nice if our village could support itself properly. It just feels neater.
 
The Laurent said:
The problem is, that's assuming that through the power of waiting several extra months for Meditation, it will therefore increase in narrative content and value. The Marshmallow Test is waiting fifteen minutes to get two marshmallows or eating one right now... but if someone doesn't actually get a thrill from mechanically optimal play, what is gained by waiting several in-universe weeks to get a storyline they really want to see?

E: To clarify, there are people who get a thrill from mechanically optimal play, from working with the system in such a way as to do the best possible thing. That's completely valid, don't get me wrong.
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That's what I mean by a secondary system. I am sure no one would be against just getting a free action for our fief, so it's not like it's worthless, but the majority doesn't want to optimize it at the cost of waiting. The difficulty of said waiting is overblown, in my eyes, as it's not like we wouldn't get cool narrative while we wait anyway, just a different one, but it's an understandable decision. I am just annoyed by it.
 
To be fair even if its not mechanically the best decision the narrative has been hinting that we were going to do snowblossom meditations as soon as we were able, and with the winter court shenanigans being Qi's warm up adventure this seems like a good time narratively
 
agumentic said:
That's what I mean by a secondary system. I am sure no one would be against just getting a free action for our fief, so it's not like it's worthless, but the majority doesn't want to optimize it at the cost of waiting. The difficulty of said waiting is overblown, in my eyes, as it's not like we wouldn't get cool narrative while we wait anyway, just a different one, but it's an understandable decision. I am just annoyed by it.
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The thing is it doesn't actually give us a free action. What it does is give us a 25% reduction to project costs one turn earlier, potentially saving us around ~0.5 project's worth of resources.

In terms of the effect on our actual action economy though... the average cost of a project is ~66 resources, and we get 400 with a wealth call action. With the admin bonus, this drops to ~49.5 / project average. Ignoring differences between agriculture and materials for simplicity, how many times would we expect to have to use a wealth call action in the next year?

It turns out that regardless of whether or not we rush admin to get the bonus asap, or delay it a turn, we'll need the same number of wealth calls. Including this one, we should be expecting around 4 wealth call actions over the next year. Delaying admin a turn is unlikely to change this, and indeed we'd likely end up taking them around the same months under both plans. Effect on our action economy should be minimal.

 
agumentic said:
That's what I mean by a secondary system. I am sure no one would be against just getting a free action for our fief, so it's not like it's worthless, but the majority doesn't want to optimize it at the cost of waiting. The difficulty of said waiting is overblown, in my eyes, as it's not like we wouldn't get cool narrative while we wait anyway, just a different one, but it's an understandable decision. I am just annoyed by it.
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My general way of doing quest voting has shifted over the years from "I gotta win at quest" to just "push the button with the thing you want to see". Part of that is because the I'm not reading heavily game-like quests anymore, but it's mostly because I read quests to engage with characters and themes, not numbers and systems. If I want fun with number optimization I can play a round or two of slay the spire.

I'm glad there are people who like poking at the numbers in this story, but I habitually ignore numbers when they're low impact, and skip votes that are mostly about them. I've played quests both ways, and I find that I just stress myself out over votes when I try to really dig into whatever crunch or strategy there is. For me, going off of vibes and forgetting to even vote half the time is more fun and entirely on purpose.
 
[X] Plan Getting ready for big projects
[X] snowblossom meditations
[X] Population Drive
[X] Call on Cai Clan Weath

With this plan we expend our current resources with enought to pay for next month upkeep make sure we have all the mp we might need for next projects without letting jobs empty without mp for it and get the cash to do some big expensive projects next turm.
 
farsuk said:
[X] Plan Getting ready for big projects
[X] snowblossom meditations
[X] Population Drive
[X] Call on Cai Clan Weath

With this plan we expend our current resources with enought to pay for next month upkeep make sure we have all the mp we might need for next projects without letting jobs empty without mp for it and get the cash to do some big expensive projects next turm.
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we can only take 2 projects, not 3 (call on cai wealth is a project)
also, if you want your vote to register as a plan, you have to add a space after your choices, like so:
[x] Plan X
-[x] good idea
-[x] cool idea with SYNERGY
 
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