Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Nah, I think next turn, botes and Granary is the way to go, would give us +3 net Manpower out of it, and that should get us close to catching up on our deficits.
But for now, Shrine and Money. Then Botes and Granary, then... We'll see. Maybe a push on our other Shrines on the table?
But for now, Shrine and Money. Then Botes and Granary, then... We'll see. Maybe a push on our other Shrines on the table?
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Even with only 120 Admin (which still hasn't been stated clearly!), the fact that it unlocks an additional Adm boost next turn means that Granary + CoCW now is the way to go.
[X] Plan: Lake Whispering
Looking at Happiness/Admin sources visible
Known:
-Settlement Walls - Happiness +5, another 5 if manned with cultivators.
-Silver Mining - Happiness +5 while manned
-Hamlet Granary - Happiness +10
-Boiling Deep Shrine Foundations - Happiness +5
-Theater of Frost Foundations - Happiness +5
Possible:
-Snowblossom Shrine - Requires Snowblossom Meditations. Both existing Shrine foundation options increase happiness, so its likely to as well. Makes sense since religious activity is a good social mood outlet.
-Boiling Deep Shrine - Requires Boiling Deep Shrine Foundations. As above, its a shrine, it probably adds happiness.
-Theater of Frost - Requires Theater of Frost Foundations. Its both a shrine AND an entertainment building.
-Cathedral of Winds Shrine - This is gated twice over, since we have to clear the dungeon AND make the road to it and identify the spirit, so not a near term target.
-Hunter's Shrine - Requires Hamlet Forestry. As above, its a shrine, it probably adds happiness.
-Expand Hamlet Administration - Requires Hamlet Granary, its explicitly an admin upgrade after all. Probably a proper manorial economy starts here.
Chonky builds all though
Looking at Happiness/Admin sources visible
Known:
-Settlement Walls - Happiness +5, another 5 if manned with cultivators.
-Silver Mining - Happiness +5 while manned
-Hamlet Granary - Happiness +10
-Boiling Deep Shrine Foundations - Happiness +5
-Theater of Frost Foundations - Happiness +5
Possible:
-Snowblossom Shrine - Requires Snowblossom Meditations. Both existing Shrine foundation options increase happiness, so its likely to as well. Makes sense since religious activity is a good social mood outlet.
-Boiling Deep Shrine - Requires Boiling Deep Shrine Foundations. As above, its a shrine, it probably adds happiness.
-Theater of Frost - Requires Theater of Frost Foundations. Its both a shrine AND an entertainment building.
-Cathedral of Winds Shrine - This is gated twice over, since we have to clear the dungeon AND make the road to it and identify the spirit, so not a near term target.
-Hunter's Shrine - Requires Hamlet Forestry. As above, its a shrine, it probably adds happiness.
-Expand Hamlet Administration - Requires Hamlet Granary, its explicitly an admin upgrade after all. Probably a proper manorial economy starts here.
Chonky builds all though
- Location
- United States
[X] Plan: Cheap Foundations
All told I'm suspecting that:
-Happiness comes from Security, Gratification and Faith.
--Security - Walls, Guard forces, visible symbols of the rule of law and safety. This may be temporarily degraded in the event of a security breach or failure. As the settlement expands the security coverage may be lacking in fringe areas compared to core regions.
--Gratification - This is the Bread and Circuses, whether entertainment, public health facilities, jewellery, fine clothes etc. We'd probably be getting more of these available as our industries advance, but expect availability to eventually diverge as the cost moves away from the settlement median budget.
--Faith - The means of beseeching intervention from spirits or just generally some way to vent dissatisfaction and participate in community activities. So far we have Foundations(establishing the rites and practices so people know how to deal with given spirits), Shrines(establishing places of worship) and likely later Temples and festivals.
-Administration comes from Information, Transportation, and Communication.
--Information - At present this is just via warehousing(Granary). We store the stuff in one place, someone counts it, and so we know how much stuff we have, will be getting and are using. I expect Administration boosts to come as industries expand to the point where we have to set up storage facilties for them in a manorial economy, and then delegate the bean counting to bean counters. Beyond that more clerks, better measurement methods and administrative practices(and cultivating administrators) are the way to go here.
--Transport - At present we're too small for internal transport to be meaningful. Internal logistics like roads, and courier organizations would be important later of course.
--Communication - At present we're too small for this to matter, but communication would allow for more administrative efficiency.
-Happiness comes from Security, Gratification and Faith.
--Security - Walls, Guard forces, visible symbols of the rule of law and safety. This may be temporarily degraded in the event of a security breach or failure. As the settlement expands the security coverage may be lacking in fringe areas compared to core regions.
--Gratification - This is the Bread and Circuses, whether entertainment, public health facilities, jewellery, fine clothes etc. We'd probably be getting more of these available as our industries advance, but expect availability to eventually diverge as the cost moves away from the settlement median budget.
--Faith - The means of beseeching intervention from spirits or just generally some way to vent dissatisfaction and participate in community activities. So far we have Foundations(establishing the rites and practices so people know how to deal with given spirits), Shrines(establishing places of worship) and likely later Temples and festivals.
-Administration comes from Information, Transportation, and Communication.
--Information - At present this is just via warehousing(Granary). We store the stuff in one place, someone counts it, and so we know how much stuff we have, will be getting and are using. I expect Administration boosts to come as industries expand to the point where we have to set up storage facilties for them in a manorial economy, and then delegate the bean counting to bean counters. Beyond that more clerks, better measurement methods and administrative practices(and cultivating administrators) are the way to go here.
--Transport - At present we're too small for internal transport to be meaningful. Internal logistics like roads, and courier organizations would be important later of course.
--Communication - At present we're too small for this to matter, but communication would allow for more administrative efficiency.
That actually makes a lot of sense the Bao dedicate themselves to becoming the best merchant they can be and embracing the Wealth Law.
That's really useful, Endings Concept is at 2/5 for leveling up to the 4th level
Some thing matter more then money.
That's some really cool additions to the Fief mechanics. Congrats to everyone for getting to the Hamlet Stage.
Damn that's really powerful.
These are both really cool traits. Winter's Heart shows that Ling Qi's understanding of Winter and Cold has developed a lot. Unbroken Will shows that Ling Qi has picked herself up from the whole Crucible incident.
Admin should be valued significantly higher than Happiness though. And we need to take the Granary upgrade ASAP in order to go anywhere on that path.
If the stats for that upgrade alone are not cumulative (as people seem to be assuming) that really means only net Happiness +5 btw.
Granary explicitly mentions a further upgrade immediately (which really looks like an Admin Center side path), and there's no reason to put it off.
I don't understand why everybody is voting for Snowblossom Meditations when Fishing Boat Construction is strictly better at the same things, even if they don't get deep into the meta math (which is admittedly annoying in a mere 2 hour moratorium when the details keep getting edited under us and important clarifications are never made)
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[X] Plan: Lake Whispering
-[X] Snowblossom Meditations
-[X] Call on Cai Clan Wealth
--[X] MONEY
Will the Boiling Deep Shrine be where Zhengui's court is situated? If so, definitely looking forward to that. Also Theater of Frost so we can start having some concerts!
-[X] Snowblossom Meditations
-[X] Call on Cai Clan Wealth
--[X] MONEY
Will the Boiling Deep Shrine be where Zhengui's court is situated? If so, definitely looking forward to that. Also Theater of Frost so we can start having some concerts!
Narrative reasons, since it was already highlighted that we need to set up such things soon or it may happen outside our control and terms. It just makes sense to get it over with
[X] Plan: Lake Whispering
If we're not getting the boost this turn then I'm fine with a one turn delay in getting our discount online. Our second slot options this turn aren't very attractive if we try to hold off and with the money we can use our second slot more productively next turn. Granary + Boiling Deeps. Then something like Theater of Frost and Silver Mining since we'd have 2 slots for cultivators.
I'd like to hit the fields infrastructure and Bai improvements but getting cultivators and cultivation sites online, boosting wealth and happiness, and stabilizing the spiritual environment all have higher priority to me.
If we're not getting the boost this turn then I'm fine with a one turn delay in getting our discount online. Our second slot options this turn aren't very attractive if we try to hold off and with the money we can use our second slot more productively next turn. Granary + Boiling Deeps. Then something like Theater of Frost and Silver Mining since we'd have 2 slots for cultivators.
I'd like to hit the fields infrastructure and Bai improvements but getting cultivators and cultivation sites online, boosting wealth and happiness, and stabilizing the spiritual environment all have higher priority to me.
[X] Plan: Lake Whispering
Mmm, the other angle to think about things on is the season. Like yeah, I know we're technically not actually modelling seasonal effects on agriculture but in character that's something we should be thinking about, because we're going into month 11 now and that means we're in autumn and approaching Winter. Hanyi began her tour in Month 13 last year.
This means that a lot of field expansion stuff theoretically isn't high priority, since it wouldn't be producing much until next year. Making sure we can get our fisheries up and running however is critical because that's a lot of our food supply and also will produce during winter. Getting the Theater of Frost up is also arguably a priority if we can get it up in time for Hanyi before she leaves for her tour. That looks like a two turn endeavor, so we might be able to pull it off by Month 13 for a performance before she leaves maaaayyybbbee? If we can get that up I think we should because it's important to establish the right rituals and habits from the start.
Granary could be useful too, since that's about managing the storage and supplies and also unlocks preservation infrastructure, which is important going into winter. Making sure the forestry is running well is important for winter too because of the need for firewood.
So if we look at some priorities like this we have:
I guess depending on what our agriculture looks like the granary and storage stuff might be less important on the grounds that we don't actually have a lot stored up yet because our production hasn't been great yet, and we'll probably be significantly relying on imports and fish to get through winter.
edit: mmm, thinking about it more the field preservation and storage stuff probably pertains more to meat preservation rather than grain, and we haven't really gotten that up and running yet anyway. Probably more important once we do fields infrastructure? In which case we could arguably justify delaying the granary line with the rest of the fields development then...
This means that a lot of field expansion stuff theoretically isn't high priority, since it wouldn't be producing much until next year. Making sure we can get our fisheries up and running however is critical because that's a lot of our food supply and also will produce during winter. Getting the Theater of Frost up is also arguably a priority if we can get it up in time for Hanyi before she leaves for her tour. That looks like a two turn endeavor, so we might be able to pull it off by Month 13 for a performance before she leaves maaaayyybbbee? If we can get that up I think we should because it's important to establish the right rituals and habits from the start.
Granary could be useful too, since that's about managing the storage and supplies and also unlocks preservation infrastructure, which is important going into winter. Making sure the forestry is running well is important for winter too because of the need for firewood.
So if we look at some priorities like this we have:
- Wealth call is just required
- Snowblossom Meditations -> Shrine for critical fishery development to feed people
- Theater of Frost foundations -> Theater for winter preparation and protection
- Forestry for timber management, and honestly hunters shrine might be important there too
- Granary -> Storage and Preservation infrastructure
I guess depending on what our agriculture looks like the granary and storage stuff might be less important on the grounds that we don't actually have a lot stored up yet because our production hasn't been great yet, and we'll probably be significantly relying on imports and fish to get through winter.
edit: mmm, thinking about it more the field preservation and storage stuff probably pertains more to meat preservation rather than grain, and we haven't really gotten that up and running yet anyway. Probably more important once we do fields infrastructure? In which case we could arguably justify delaying the granary line with the rest of the fields development then...
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Also keep in mind: as a rule, every 6 real projects we do, we have to do another CoCW. Once we take the Admin upgrade that improves to after every 8 real projects instead.
I'm inclined to ignore fields and (mostly) forest, since fish still have a lot of upgrade potential and at some point we'll have to start investing our P in the M side to avoid imbalance (since CoCW gives equal A and M).
I was just rereading on RR today and this section is germane to this vote. We've been needing to talk to Snowblossom for a while now, and it seems like it would fit in well with the story's flow to do it as soon as possible.
[X] Plan: Lake Whispering
[X] Plan: Cheap Foundations
We need more effective and actual Manpower, we would have solid postive income with what we have if we did. If we can figure out how to get Admin north of 125 that discount kicks in again, which would benefit us in the long run. This plan should bring the total to 120, which is in range of one small improvement putting us over.
Unless Happiness and Wealth can drag the actual number up, we are going to start running pop drive on and off. We still have multiple empty posts, and as projects complete we will continue to create jobs with no applicants. The bonus (while nice) is not enough.
The actual point is Ling Qi will hit Cyan relatively soon, at which point we want Cai Funds for cultivation instead of infrastructure. If Ling Qi hits Cyan at 20, and she's almost 17, we have 36-ish months/votes (or 72 slots within votes) until Call fades away as a choice. I think ending up in a place where the fief can pay for more of its own improvements is difficult, but doable. Bringing up our Way of The Coupon as high as possible will go along way to achieving that goal.
We need more effective and actual Manpower, we would have solid postive income with what we have if we did. If we can figure out how to get Admin north of 125 that discount kicks in again, which would benefit us in the long run. This plan should bring the total to 120, which is in range of one small improvement putting us over.
Unless Happiness and Wealth can drag the actual number up, we are going to start running pop drive on and off. We still have multiple empty posts, and as projects complete we will continue to create jobs with no applicants. The bonus (while nice) is not enough.
The actual point is Ling Qi will hit Cyan relatively soon, at which point we want Cai Funds for cultivation instead of infrastructure. If Ling Qi hits Cyan at 20, and she's almost 17, we have 36-ish months/votes (or 72 slots within votes) until Call fades away as a choice. I think ending up in a place where the fief can pay for more of its own improvements is difficult, but doable. Bringing up our Way of The Coupon as high as possible will go along way to achieving that goal.
I guess we also don't necessarily need the full Theater of Frost up this year. We could just get the Theater of Frost foundations up, which already gives us the fundamentals. It's just, like, winter festivals for poor people.
So we could get that up asap, then leave off the full shrine for next winter which would free space up a bit.
So we could get that up asap, then leave off the full shrine for next winter which would free space up a bit.
Another thing to think about happening in around the same timeframe is the start of the offensive against the Ith, which is right after the wedding in Xiangmen, IIRC.
I'm willing to bet good money that once that starts, the odds of Snowblossom getting attacked are gonna go up considerably. I'd personally like to have the Settlement Walls up and manned as soon as reasonably possible to account for that, and we can't even properly man it until we do Snowblossom Meditations and raise our Cultivator Manpower cap up from the 0 it's currently at (or, presumably, develop the cultivation sites we have, but those seem like multi-turn projects).
The Iron and Silver Mines might also be good to get up sooner rather than later; iron for steel and silver for purification talismans both seem pretty useful.
Mmm, I think the other thing is that we don't necessarily need to do the Shrines proper, even if doing the after completing the initial setup feels good.
Like, Meditations already establishes good relations with the Lake, enough that e.g. we're comfortable expanding fishing operations, probably gets systems for lay offerings and stuff set up fine. We don't need a fancy Shrine immediately.
And we're pretty pressed for building space. Getting docks up to get our fishing actually giving us a good food surplus is important, and imo we want the Theatre of Frost foundations up by winter too. Granary is offering us critical admin points and we really want to get up to that next admin stage as fast as we can to try to save on call on wealth actions.
Forestry though is actually a good thing to grab as soon as we have the manpower - it's really efficient, at +3 ag for 1mp.
Like, Meditations already establishes good relations with the Lake, enough that e.g. we're comfortable expanding fishing operations, probably gets systems for lay offerings and stuff set up fine. We don't need a fancy Shrine immediately.
And we're pretty pressed for building space. Getting docks up to get our fishing actually giving us a good food surplus is important, and imo we want the Theatre of Frost foundations up by winter too. Granary is offering us critical admin points and we really want to get up to that next admin stage as fast as we can to try to save on call on wealth actions.
Agreed yeah - we do want to get the walls up before we head off on campaign imo. Mines however I feel are probably a longer term lower priority investment compared to food.
Forestry though is actually a good thing to grab as soon as we have the manpower - it's really efficient, at +3 ag for 1mp.
- Location
- USA
Looking like we should try to weave in pop drives over the next few turns. Not this one. But we're down... 6? And the only plans I've seen so far that account for pop account for 3. Then the plans over the next few turns that I've seen suggested seem to increase the amount of pop we need.
Dunno, just throwing it out there.
I do think the lake should come, and cai bucks, this turn. We were already planning on the snowblossom spirit this turn iirc. (with botes)
But if there isn't anything narrative that we need right now (like snowblossom this turn) I would tentatively suggest that we try to stabilize our agricultural and material incomes and making sure we're popped up real well. (So efficiency upgrades like boats for fishery)
I am excited about the forestry industry being available. I'm wicked hopeful for some nice woods, including some spirit wood upgrades. They'd probably be softwoods, but cedar at least looks nice. I think fir is the rolls royce of softwoods and that's also a taiga tree. And with more people roaming the woods we'd probably start getting local spirit herb events and the like (hopefully).
Dunno, just throwing it out there.
I do think the lake should come, and cai bucks, this turn. We were already planning on the snowblossom spirit this turn iirc. (with botes)
But if there isn't anything narrative that we need right now (like snowblossom this turn) I would tentatively suggest that we try to stabilize our agricultural and material incomes and making sure we're popped up real well. (So efficiency upgrades like boats for fishery)
I am excited about the forestry industry being available. I'm wicked hopeful for some nice woods, including some spirit wood upgrades. They'd probably be softwoods, but cedar at least looks nice. I think fir is the rolls royce of softwoods and that's also a taiga tree. And with more people roaming the woods we'd probably start getting local spirit herb events and the like (hopefully).
Yeah, the first action in each shrine chain(Meditations/Foundations) seems to be mainly laying down the rules of how a given spirit is to be worshipped, what are the right markers for a rite/sacrifice dedicated to it as opposed to something for All Comers, etc.
The actual shrine building shouldn't be too urgent unless the spirit is majorly unhappy and needs placating beyond this level.