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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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Vikram said:
Option 1 has its own counter laid out within in (teamwork, power of friendship, community, etc.), which is the strength of... pretty much all our foes. Jungle, cloud barbarians, and the Ith are all pretty good at working together. So it doesn't really appeal to me. "The blade Isolation cannot be dulled by one heart alone." implies that it can be dulled by many. That's too obvious and common a weakness.

Option 2 on the other hand actually seems to counter these, pulling apart groups and nullifying the team advantage.
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Mechanically, I'd sat that Option 1 negates any defenses that the target has, but not any defenses that others are maintaining. Basically you cannot defend against the Blade of Isolation so without support arts from others its a straight attack that bypasses any innate power. A solid and specific attack mechanism that might be something like, "Attacks against a target ignore/bypass any of the target's abilities that would reduce or negate damage."

The other however seems to be the inverse, whereby it negates any external defenses. Rather than striking a single target rather it severs supporting systems and carves everything into single pockets. If I had to guess, it might be something like "Support Arts of X rank and below of hostile creatures cannot effect other creatures while within Ling Qi's domain."

Do we want to be the person who crushes champions or who sunders armies?

Personally, I like #2 because the idea of being able to "Carve Warm into Cold" to take what gives sustenance and turn it into its own antithesis works phenomenally well for us and the ideal we are striving for.
 
Valmond said:
Ling Qi just invoked the power of Celestial Dragon.
How aware would Celestial Dragon be about this?
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Considering how formalized this all is, my guess is about as aware as you are of when your insurance company sends you a letter saying that someone is billing them for a service you received. Technically yes, but generally uncaring.
 
Anderein said:
I don't like the second one because it feels like it's losing track of its own metaphors. "carves warmth into cold"? But Isolation is cold and an isolated person is cold as a result, but the blade Isolation is therefore also itself cold, so you're making them warm by making them colder? How are we making them less isolated by hitting them with Isolation? Is this a hypothermia thing instead, where people that get really cold start to feel as if they're too hot? Are we attacking our enemies with the power of Paradoxical Undressing now? That seems unladylike. And "No hand may reach the one who has clenched and withdrawn"? But if that was true, our attacks wouldn't do anything to them, because we couldn't "reach."

Is the whole idea saying, hey, look, this is real "cold," and you're "warm" in comparison; if you were really "cold" then my "cold" wouldn't do anything to you. You're not actually isolated, you're just delusional. That's quite a good concept and I like it, but I feel like the idea isn't really getting properly communicated in the text that's actually there. So I'm voting for the other one because it at least feels entirely clear and coherent.
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I think the 'carving' is used in a similar manner to 'carving wood into a statue' i.e, Isolation carves away the warmth of companionship and renders the victim Cold.
 
They are kind of confusingly phrased yeah.

1) I also feel is kind of meh in that placing the power of friendship in opposition to isolation is, like, uh duh? Yes? it's inherent to the concept?

2) is at least trying to grapple with something new by tackling the Isolation that stems from the self, even if it's difficult to parse.
 
There's another way to think of it, and that's in context of LQ's role. Option 1 emphasizes the need for teamwork and sticking together, which is really something better suited to brighter people like Gan Guangli. LQ's role is more to punish those who refuse to reach out, those who purposely gum up the system as it were, which is better reflected in Option 2.
 
Here are my smoothbrain interpretations of these. Not sure how right they are, but they're how they vibe to me.

yrsillar said:
From lack and loss is born suffering, in many forms. One soul has but two hands, yet in multitude the chain is unending. The blade Isolation cannot be dulled by one heart alone.
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You won't be alone if you have friends and family by your side. Friendship is magic :)

yrsillar said:
Thus, the greatest foe is I. No hand may reach the one who has clenched and withdrawn. The blade Isolation rends all warmth into cold.
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You can have the entire world reaching out to you, but it doesn't mean shit if you turn away. If you want to be alone, you will be alone.
 
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[ ] As starvation is privation of the body, isolation is privation of the soul. From lack and loss is born suffering, in many forms. One soul has but two hands, yet in multitude the chain is unending. The blade Isolation cannot be dulled by one heart alone.

[ ] As starvation is privation of the body, isolation is privation of the soul. Thus, the greatest foe is I. No hand may reach the one who has clenched and withdrawn. The blade Isolation carves warmth into cold.

I prefer option 2, isolation has been made out to be a intrinsic negative while community is an intrinsic good. While option 2 is negative it is not as defined by community as option 1. The part that says, "No hand may reach the one who has clenched and withdrawn", has some positive connotations if defined as hiding away from a adversary. Privation of the body is starvation, but fasting & avoiding some foods has its benefits. If the soul is not private than their cannot be any form of self or time to rest.
 
I like the second one because I'm enjoying picturing LQ hitting people with confusion, disorientation and memory loss, and possibly also a "dancing with ghosts" status effect inside a souped up version of DnD's Darkness spell.
 
yrsillar said:
The blade Isolation rends all warmth into cold.
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Tbh I liked the previous one better. But it was a bit confusingly worded, yeah; But this one feels less...poetic? (ik that's a weird thing to complain about but still)
How about 'The blade Isolation renders warmth unto cold' ? Or do we have to have a synonym for cutting in there?
 
Anderein said:
I don't like the second one because it feels like it's losing track of its own metaphors. "carves warmth into cold"? But Isolation is cold and an isolated person is cold as a result, but the blade Isolation is therefore also itself cold, so you're making them warm by making them colder? How are we making them less isolated by hitting them with Isolation? Is this a hypothermia thing instead, where people that get really cold start to feel as if they're too hot? Are we attacking our enemies with the power of Paradoxical Undressing now? That seems unladylike. And "No hand may reach the one who has clenched and withdrawn"? But if that was true, our attacks wouldn't do anything to them, because we couldn't "reach."

Is the whole idea saying, hey, look, this is real "cold," and you're "warm" in comparison; if you were really "cold" then my "cold" wouldn't do anything to you. You're not actually isolated, you're just delusional. That's quite a good concept and I like it, but I feel like the idea isn't really getting properly communicated in the text that's actually there. So I'm voting for the other one because it at least feels entirely clear and coherent.
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No? It carves warmth... into cold. It makes what was warm, cold.

E: Oh, the text was changed to be less poetically charged in exchange for being slightly more obvious.
 
[X] As starvation is privation of the body, isolation is privation of the soul. Thus, the greatest foe is I. No hand may reach the one who has clenched and withdrawn. The blade Isolation rends all warmth into cold.

Liking this one more.
 
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[ ] As starvation is privation of the body, isolation is privation of the soul. Thus, the greatest foe is I. No hand may reach the one who has clenched and withdrawn. The blade Isolation rends all warmth into cold.

Okay, yeah, this one is good. A big improvement! I'll be voting for it.

Also, I like the Insight split between option 1's "just reach out, no one can do this alone" versus option 2's "actually this is basically your fault." Just stroll into the spirit's house and call them names! They ain't shit!
 
I would say that just because option 1 says Community beats Isolation, it, doesn't mean that any form of community would work.

IIIRC, LQ has another tech like this, and the only form of Community that works is true Community by her standards. So something like an army would not necessarily be effective against her, depending on how they define their unity.

I love how option 1 focuses on Multitude, and I'll be sad if. We lose out on that. The use of the "I" I'm option 2 talks could mayhaps work for Unity too, but I'm not so sure. I'd prefer to keep all Huisheng musings in our concepts to make our final tribulation more epic.
 
Big improvement on option 2 but I'm still unclear on "the greatest foe is I", these insights need to be clear, they are going to be an integral part of who we are.
 
Oliver_Twister said:
I love how option 1 focuses on Multitude, and I'll be sad if. We lose out on that. The use of the "I" I'm option 2 talks could mayhaps work for Unity too, but I'm not so sure. I'd prefer to keep all Huisheng musings in our concepts to make our final tribulation more epic.
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The thing is though is that I feel like the only thing (1) has going for it is just throwing in the "Multitude" keyword. Beyond that it's fairly banal and not really doing much for our understanding.

If it started interrogating the concept of Isolation within Multitude then that would be one thing but idk...
 
Lena27 said:
Big improvement on option 2 but I'm still unclear on "the greatest foe is I", these insights need to be clear, they are going to be an integral part of who we are.
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"The greatest foe is 'I.'"

When you define yourself entirely separate from and divorced from everyone else, you make yourself prey to Isolation, an easy victim.

And to be honest, I for one found it pretty darn clear. It's honestly not an insight that ignores 'Multitude' tbh?

Erebeal said:
The thing is though is that I feel like the only thing (1) has going for it is just throwing in the "Multitude" keyword. Beyond that it's fairly banal and not really doing much for our understanding.

If it started interrogating the concept of Isolation within Multitude then that would be one thing but idk...
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I honestly don't think "2" really ignores multitude or so on, honestly? And we still do have Community and Want, and Choice ("in solidarity") and so on besides that.
 
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Lena27 said:
Big improvement on option 2 but I'm still unclear on "the greatest foe is I", these insights need to be clear, they are going to be an integral part of who we are.
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That part is about, I think, being too egoistic to reach out to others. One is the loneliest number and all that. As long as you only think in terms of 'I' and not 'we/us', you'll always be alone, or should I say, Isolated
 
Mr.Error said:
That part is about, I think, being too egoistic to reach out to others. One is the loneliest number and all that. As long as you only think in terms of 'I' and not 'we/us', you'll always be alone, or should I say, Isolated
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Yes, it's an Isolation concept that is not about its negation but about how it can happen even when people in theory have Friends and Yada Yada, etc, etc. The way that Isolation can creep in when it shouldn't. So I think in a way it's more powerfully ABOUT Isolation. It doesn't negate the idea that you should reach out to your friends, it explains how someone might not and therefore can be isolated.
 
Number 2 also rings very relevant for Ling Qi. With her running away from the mom that loved her. With her fear of romance. Many times the problem wasn't the lack of people wanting to reach out to her, she was the one running away from these connections. "the foe is I" makes a lot of sense in her context.
 
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