Remove ads

Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
TehChron said:
So, bets on when who takes first swing at Ling Qi to sabotage the proceedings?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It's already happened at least once, the real issue is that a Sovereign can't drop in and do it without running into the sea of sharp things that is Xia Ren and Shu Yue, and anything beneath that she has the qualifications to at least survive until they can get strangled by our shadow.
 
Yes! We're finally engaging with Truth here!

Cao Chun leaned on his cane heavily. "I do not know who taught you your manipulations girl, but they are skilled. "You tell me to my face that you do not believe it will be so, but instead, play on my rightful pride in our institutions."

There was, Ling Qi thought, value in ambiguity. Truth was important, but… without varnish it was a blunt thing, a hammer or a wildfire.

Under the Hui burning every scheme equally had been the right action. She did not think it would be so forever. She felt a faint itch under her eye, a meridian twisting.

No unvarnished truth was not always the right way. SIncerity in your communication was important, truth as a virtue in itself, was less so.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Hmm. That's something we'll need to interrogate more. Clear Communication can't have ambiguity.
 
www.royalroad.com

Bonus: The Sky that Fell - Forge of Destiny

Great Father is the First Sky, whose arrows are the lightning, whose hoofbeats are the wind, and whose mane is the clear blue sky. The Second Sky is the (...)
www.royalroad.com www.royalroad.com
He grew strong, stronger than all but the mightiest of Khans, and soon, as strong as they as well. The Seventh Sky had come, the warriors whispered, and the time to strike back was nigh. Batu had Broken the Forest Lord's horns, but Ogodei, Lord of Lightning, would burn their forests to the ground and drive them from the hills forevermore.
Yet still, the greatest Khans resisted, for they as well had achieved the realm of Ogodei, though each of the three was old and gray and bore no illusions of rising to become a Sky. And so, did Ogodei undergo one last trial.

The foul kin of the old Gods had crept back into the mountains, carried by the lowlander scum. There, did one of the scaled worms of the sky dare call itself king.
And like the Starson before him, did Ogodei cast the beast down and fashion armor of its hide.
For the first time since the days of the Gods did more than half of the People gather under one banner.
With offerings of dragon's blood did Ogodei open the vaults of the Starson and receive a cache of his arrows. When the first one flew, it heralded the end of days for the accursed Li and their Black Lotus Mountain. There, the people purged the Li's toxins from the land and burned their abominable crafts to the ground.

Yet there was no call from the lowlander kings. Where the tribes fought together, the lowlanders fought alone, and they died alone. Their slow soldiers and decadent lords failed to match the cunning of the great Khan, and for a time, it seemed as if victory was nigh!
A lie. A beautiful lie. None know how Ogodei fell, but fall, he did.
And the lowlanders stirred with rage.
Such is the tale of the Sky that Fell. And that Sky's falling was but a prelude to the end of the People.
Unless, perhaps, a true Seventh Sky comes.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ogodei would have been the Seventh Sky if he'd succeeded in breaking the Emerald Seas.
Hmm, I think I know which dragon he cacked.
www.royalroad.com

Threads Interlude Rivers and Rain - Forge of Destiny

Enemies surrounded Heizui, thick as water weeds. Pikes came down, and the young dragon roared, his water shadow frothing white as they rebounded from it. (...)
www.royalroad.com www.royalroad.com
"You do not!" his mother roared, and a tree toppled. Heizui had to dig his talons in the earth, and even then, they dug deep furrows as he was pushed back to the rivers behind. "Do you understand, child, that the cloud men are going to war again?"
"But that's just a human thing," Heizui complained. Frustration and soreness boiled over to drown his deference. "They'll take care of it."
"Thinking in such a way will leave you to the same fate as your idiot father," Qingshe said coldly.
Heizui felt a chill, running all the way down to the tip of his tail. He had made a mistake. Mother never mentioned father unless she was furious with him.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Vanguard_D said:
Regarding the Skies of the Cloud nomads, we got the "Bonus: The Sky that Fell" over on RR and should be in the threads somewhere also.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes! Thank you! Totally forgot the tittle, but it was memorable.
Karthak Urzak said:
Ogodei would have been the Seventh Sky if he'd succeeded in breaking the Emerald Seas.
Hmm, I think I know which dragon he cacked.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ah, I was mistaken on the number as well...
Hm.... Ah, I see why....
yrsillar said:
It was wider in the east, simply because that way lay the Golden Fields and the grave and the land of the Twelve star, which meant no one was willing to claim it really, beyond the limits of the Jing river system.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Got the 12 stuck in my head from here....
Well, LQ X Bardbarian Sky would be one damn interesting way to make peace in the area surrounding the Wall.....
 
Oliver_Twister said:
Hmm. That's something we'll need to interrogate more. Clear Communication can't have ambiguity.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It can, though. For example, when I'm trying to communicate cool stuff that happens in this quest to friends who don't even know what a xianxia is, I leave a hell of a lot of the details ambiguous. Exacting clarity sounds good, but trust me - no amount of pretty formatting will make someone happy if you just shove a spreadsheet with all relevant pieces of information at them, no matter how comprehensively it may cover the matter at hand.

If you want to communicate a specific message to a specific person, you need to match the information you share to the person you're sharing it with, even if details are left unaddressed. Communication doesn't happen in a vacuum, after all - it happens with specific people with specific knowledge bases and perspectives, which is what Thief of Names is all about. The information Ling Qi shares should similarly be shaped to her audience.

Just like it was in this update. The pieces of information which conveyed to Cao Chun that [Tech Sharing Helps Us All] did not provide a comprehensive or objective account of the truth, but they conveyed our central message in a way that Cao Chun could accept, and so they were the right words to use for Communication.
 
kfrar said:
It can, though. For example, when I'm trying to communicate cool stuff that happens in this quest to friends who don't even know what a xianxia is, I leave a hell of a lot of the details ambiguous. Exacting clarity sounds good, but trust me - no amount of pretty formatting will make someone happy if you just shove a spreadsheet with all relevant pieces of information at them, no matter how comprehensively it may cover the matter at hand.

If you want to communicate a specific message to a specific person, you need to match the information you share to the person you're sharing it with, even if details are left unaddressed. Communication doesn't happen in a vacuum, after all - it happens with specific people with specific knowledge bases and perspectives, which is what Thief of Names is all about. The information Ling Qi shares should similarly be shaped to her audience.

Just like it was in this update. The pieces of information which conveyed to Cao Chun that [Tech Sharing Helps Us All] did not provide a comprehensive or objective account of the truth, but they conveyed our central message in a way that Cao Chun could accept, and so they were the right words to use for Communication.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I think it depends on the intent of the Communication.
If your intent is to expose exact, concise information then, yes, you can't have ambiguity in your statements.

If your intent is to appeal to the other party then, as you say, you need to adapt your speech to match the other person's disposition.
That doesn't mean lying, or being insincere. Just framing your message in the way you think it would be best received.

The conversation with Cao Chun is a great example.
Ling Qi doesn't want to "expand imperial influence", nor does she think it a likely result of the summit.
But it is a possible outcome, so Ling Qi brought that to attention in the conversation.
She didn't lie nor was insincere, she just was ambigous.
 
Oliver_Twister said:
Yes! We're finally engaging with Truth here!



Hmm. That's something we'll need to interrogate more. Clear Communication can't have ambiguity.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I think the more important part of this section is what immediately follows:

yrsillar said:
"I know what you believe, and I am explaining how my actions may pay out under that perspective," Ling Qi said. "I am only providing information, and asking you to examine it. If you think it is nonsense, just say it is so."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There's two kinds of Truth: relating facts ("to call all Truths subjective can only bring ruin"), and relating the conclusions you believe are properly drawn from those facts. Rather than pushing her own conclusion and insisting on her Truth of outcome, she's focusing on the Truth of facts and presenting information to influence his own perceived Truth of outcome. It's Truth but also Choice, the point where the singular branches out into the multitude.
 
Oliver_Twister said:
Yes! We're finally engaging with Truth here!



Hmm. That's something we'll need to interrogate more. Clear Communication can't have ambiguity.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I like it too!

That said, I strongly disagree about clarity and ambiguity. Too much precision kills clarity just as quickly as not enough- drowning things in detail to conceal the important points through obscurity is a well-honed PR move.

I look at it like lighting. Clarity is a spotlight on the thing that you want to get across. Ambiguity is the dimness surrounding everything else.

Better for a performance to have a single thing in a spotlight than a whole auditorium lit evenly.

Anderein said:
There's two kinds of Truth: relating facts, and relating the conclusions you believe are properly drawn from those facts.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The implication that facts aren't just conclusions drawn from evidence isn't one I can agree with. I don't think the distinction you are making exists.
 
Doramas said:
I think it depends on the intent of the Communication.
If your intent is to expose exact, concise information then, yes, you can't have ambiguity in your statements.

If your intent is to appeal to the other party then, as you say, you need to adapt your speech to match the other person's disposition.
That doesn't mean lying, or being insincere. Just framing your message in the way you think it would be best received.

The conversation with Cao Chun is a great example.
Ling Qi doesn't want to "expand imperial influence", nor does she think it a likely result of the summit.
But it is a possible outcome, so Ling Qi brought that to attention in the conversation.
She didn't lie nor was insincere, she just was ambigous.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Even if you're trying to share simple facts with someone, ambiguity is often necessary. Like, when Apple reports their quarterly earnings, it doesn't matter if they have the raw data to provide an accurate sales number to the cent; that level of detail is just counterproductive when the total reaches the billions. Yes, 50 billion is more ambiguous than 50,324,957,169.87, but simply asking someone to fit all of those extra digits into their brain actively make it harder to understand the core point that we're talking about 50 billion of something, because now the person you're talking to is going to be distracted by things like "Wow, that's a lot of numbers that just got said at me" or "Do they really know that many digits?"

There are times when you need to give someone the whole spreadsheet, but even when you're just giving facts to someone, it's usually best to focus on the portions of information that they will actually find helpful in understanding whatever you are hoping to explain.
 
yrsillar said:
"If we truly are better, superior to them, then it will only be made more obvious through cooperation. If our methods are better, then there will be those that adopt them. If elements of their practice are useful, our people will adapt them and make our own practice better," Ling Qi said. "And, frankly the more I learn the less useful I find the term barbarian. It terminates thought. By all measure, it means 'not of the Empire'. A useless distinction, considering the Sage conquered most of us, that the Xuan joined our great realm well after his death of their own will, when they saw what we had built."

"There is a vast gulf of time between the subjugated lords of the forest and the savages of the Wall, or these frozen… foreigners," Cao Chun said. His expression twisted and his hand tightened on his cane. "It is unworthy for any who live in the peaks to treat those of the provinces as if they were barely better than barbarians. I am most irritated when I find such infections of thought lingering like malignant tumors among my kin."

She lowered her head respectfully. "I am glad Inspector Chun believes this. It is true, we of the Emerald Seas have been troubled, but we are as imperial as the nobles of the peaks. My point though is that it was not always so."

"You propose that these foreigners can be brought to us?" Cao Chun said, the corner of his lips quirked up. "Ambitious, though you do believe it really."

"...I don't," Ling Qi said there was no point in trying to lie to cultivator two realms above her. "But that is because I am not certain imperial authority is what makes people as you would say 'civilized'."

"And what does then?" the old man asked mildly. She was pleased to see him engaging. "Bereft of order… hmph, you know what people are like girl. I have read your file. You know what savages men are when there are none to police them."

"Plenty and peace is what tames the beasts within us," Ling Qi said.

Cao Chun's expression grew condescending. "Baroness. Never come to the lands of the Heavenly Peaks if you think it is so."

She bowed her head. "...Perhaps not all unworthy urges, then but those that lead to direct violence. In a civilized setting a man might scheme after his neighbors wealth, but he will not draw a blade, gather his warriors and take it."

"....Granted, but is the watchful eye of authority which makes this so," Cao Chun replied.

"And are we not establishing the beginning of authority here? It is my hope that this can satisfy you. I believe we will come to peace through becoming familiar neighbors, you do not believe this, but if we show our excellence, it will move them toward us. Just as they have moved the southern Cloud toward them."

She considered for a moment before continuing. "And allow me to share this. From what I have observed, the central authority of the Polar Nation is weak. When I asked after the presence of their capital, I saw dismissal and derision, swiftly hidden maybe, but there."

It was only a slight exaggeration, and a little twist on what she had learned of the Iron King in Grydja's shack. There was even Jaromila's story. Her family had not used the direct authority of the capital to pursue her, they were not the Liu handing down edicts for Ling Qi's mother to be ruined. They had to scheme and plot to kill Jaromila's father, and had to hide it well to boot.

"Such a thing would surely be the proverbial tree that only my grandchildren might shade under, but it is our duty to plant such things, no?"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
What an articulate, well-thought out argument, tailored towards the person--manipulative but not so outright manipulative, just enough to show that she did her homework on him and she's being respectful while making a valid argument that's convincing him...even though he knows with his techniques when she's twisting the truth. And to think people have called Ling Qi an airhead??
I loved this!
 
Our gains with the MoI are secure! More favor with everyone!

Also, it's kind of an interesting little carrot that Renxiang dangled out there, that the Cai don't want to hold on to this land in perpetuity. Which means that they are perfectly willing to give it out to those interested, if they behave.
 
You know two random thoughts/comments. It seems like the golden fields would have had first contact if the cataclysm never needed to happen. Wonder how soon that would have been.

In the future I can see a White sky capital/Xiangmen visit/diplomatic event that we host and are hosted in. That would be pretty cool.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top