Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Wow, yall are terrible friends, we visited literally everyone except for one of our closest friends in the sect. It would be different if we had only hit up some people, but we literally talked to everyone we met or hung out with still at the sect except her, the singling out is very much noticeable, I figured it was a possibility we would neglect someone for a shiny, did not expect it would be one of our closest friends.
I can't tell if you're joking or not, but Su Ling is involved with Gan Guangli and will likely be easier to come by than any of these other random acquaintances to meet up with after this point. That said she is also the person we have seen most recently out of everyone we were given the choices between.
 
Also if this is from a watsonian perspective than Yrs said Qi would visit Su Ling off screen, he just didn't have the space to do all of these scenes on screen.
 
[X] The purpose of protection is to preserve Choice, both your own and of those you shield.

Voting off of some good arguments I'm seeing about the future implications of each choice.
 
[X] The purpose of protection is to preserve Choice, both your own and of those you shield.
 
[X] The purpose of protection is to preserve Choice, both your own and of those you shield.

Yeah, the World option, as is, seems a bit stagnating for me.
 
She never had gone to as many lessons as she could have there was always something to do. People to meet, duties to fulfill, places to explore. Still, the quiet atmosphere of the Elder's lecture site had a comforting air. Of all the Elder's she had met, she did not think she had actually sat in on a public lesson of Elder Ying. Her classroom was a stony grotto, set near the base of the mountain, where falling waters formed a misty curtain on the north side, pooling in a clear sparkling pond in the center. The student benches were raised rounded stone, grown with fuzzy green layers of moss that did not stick to or stain even the more mundane robes and gowns of the other students.
Its one of the low key ways I'll miss the Sect. The lessons were neat, though I imagine the scarcity made them more interesting

"...And so the nature of defense is as complex as the ways of harm, ever changing with the needs of the moment, the battlefield, the opponent, your goals, what is wanted, what is needed. There can be no universal shield, anymore than there may be a universal blade. To think in such terms is itself a failure of thought, a foolish dead end which has ensnared growing cultivators since before the founding."
Sword Cultivators: "But..."
Well, as she said, its a dead end, gets you results fast, but only really a constraint beyond that. Useful in a world where you need early results to get resources to advance, but good for neither yourself nor anyone around you.
Todays lecture was a meditation on the nature of defensive arts. Not merely arts which armored or arts developed to dodge, but on the concept of 'Defense' and 'Protection' itself. What those things truly meant, in their contexts on the battlefield and off.

Ling Qi herself had many small answers to that percolating in her mind, developing and clinging to the edges of other ideas and concepts.

"What most consider the fundamentals of defense, are Armor and Motion. That is the ability to endure and the ability to avoid. But these are only the simplest methods suitable for the lower realm battlefield. Absorption, diffusion, redirection, causal disruption, even these are but slightly more advanced examples of defensive techniques. Consider then, defense is not only a thing for war. Perception is itself a layer of defense, prediction, organization, administration, these things too must be considered, for life is not only war, can never be only war…"
War as an extension of diplomacy by other means.

Keep the purpose in mind, and treat it as a tool, not a way of life.
There lies mistaking the means as the ends.

Many parts of the Empire have been in conflict so long they don't really know how to exist other than conflict.
It was true, Ling Qi thought. She could absorb an attack which would slay a dozen third realms into the impenetrable depths of her Mist, but that was an ability with little use in the project before her. Her foes were not hurling bolts of power from the sky or striking at her with blade and fist. Even the powerful spirits and high cultivators who she dealt with were ofte as not really trying to harm her. Their nature itself wrought harm by their mere existence. Black Sky's Yearning, a hungry void that could only devour. The great thundering beast in her fief, ruinous in its indifference to their small lives, the strange beasts emerging from the glacier.

Xia Ren, an engine of metal and flame that could only keep churning forward, seeking more fuel to burn. Even the Duchess herself, though she did not dare make judgements on what precisely she was. Even with the General she only had the beginning of an impression.

…She had a hunch that she would need to meet and understand all of those who had followed and supported the Duchess onto her throne, if she was ever going to help Renxiang topple her from it.
Knowledge is Power.
Power is Choice.

The ones with no choices remaining are already dead, they're just going through the motions.
"It is the nature of defense to be reactive, but this too is not universal, but to prepare effectively, the nature of the assaults such a project will suffer must be deeply understood, and incorporated into the foundation of your technique."

Ling Qi nodded faintly, the Elder's words echoing her own thoughts. She thought there was something else there though. It wasn't enough to stop an attack. A defense, a good defense, should put you in a position to take advantage of your enemy. It wasn't enough to react, though she knew she did enough of that. The knife she had taken to the throat, her family and friends may not have liked that choice but she was not ashamed of it.

Because it had given Xiulan the opportunity to end the threat then and there, and Ling Qi had lived.

The best defense was one which positioned your enemies to be ruined.

Well that was probably a little too martial, for her current problems. The best defense made their position untenable to hold? That forced them to cede to her advance. Could her negotiating partners be considered enemies in this analogy or just the ones out to obstruct her?
The best defense is one which positions yourself for victory.
Seek not their loss, only your gain. There are an infinity of potential obstacles and threats, destroying one means little if they are replaced
If they are losing, then thats just part of the preconditions to make your winning easier.

There was no answer, and that made her snowballing thoughts peter out.

She really didn't like not being able to bounce her ideas.
Sixiang....
"My style isn't for everyone, but I did not think I had become so boring."

Ling Qi held very still, forcing herself not to flinch or jerk in reaction. Beside her in the empty space on the stone bench, sat Elder Ying, sitting with her chin on her hands, looking ahead. The Elder Ying standing in the center of the grotto remained where she was still speaking, though Ling Qi could not hear her now.
Elders spooking juniors is good civilization!
Elder Ying's drooping eyelids opened a bit wider. Her eyes were glittering green, like raw emerald dug from the earth. "That is my experience. Have you not experienced a little already? To live and walk forward you leave things, leave people behind, it will only grow worse with the passing centuries. New faces might replace them, but become harder and harder to discern."

The old woman's gaze was wistful, even as the illusion of her humanity wavered under Ling Qi's attention. Eyes of verdant ore, skin like deeply cracked and weathered stone. She sat on the bench beside a worn and mossy mountain, looking down upon her disciples from so high among the clouds. She was glad to proffer shade and shelter, but there was only so much a mountain could perceive of the doings of humans.
To protect, to provide. To care.
But no longer to be a part of them.
…It was sad. Ling Qi felt it unbearably sad. "I think you must be wrong. I have left some behind, will leave more, but… there is room to connect even on a higher peak. I don't believe that it can become truly impossible to connect, if you choose not to discard that."

"It's not bad, to be a little naive," Elder Ying hummed. "My Way is at its end, I will climb no higher than this. But… I once thought as you did, as a girl. I can remember that, even if I could not tell you why. Being alone does not mean you do not care. That you must be as a heavenly machine, unfeeling and disconnected. There are many Ways whose attention remains on this earth, with their people and kin. All the same, you will not be one of them. The relationship is different, distant. When your will is a Law of the world they live in, when you have half become a fixture of the world, how can you be?"
I think she'd make fine friends with the Polar Nation's own elders.
But its incredibly tragic that she ultimately had to cut off what led her to walk the path to begin with
Ling Qi didn't answer at first. The Elder's words were a deep vibration in her bones as much as a sound in the air. It was so different, perceiving a Sovereign now, with the senses she had, than when she had spoken with the Elder as a girl barely more than mortal.

"Never again. Never again will there be such slaughter. So many of our children dead, our people wailing. If all the earth must rest on my back, so be it. I will be the mountain, upon which the storm breaks."
And we have a moment of [Communication].
That moment of resolution and Sacrifice.

The community needed an immutable force, so she became one.
Ling Qi winced, a stinging feeling in the corner of her eye, she reached up, wiped at the wetness there, and her fingers came away with a trace of red. This was the second time.

"You've chosen a cruel path, to see so deeply. Though I suggest you refine it soon," Elder Ying said mildly. "Ah, but you've learned how to refine arts by now."
Oh yes, learned to open the eye, next is to learn to close it, and then to focus on what you want to know.

An unblinking eye is a torment of its own.
"It's been very recent," Ling Qi said. "Elder, may I ask, what were the beasts bound in your trial, the tortoise, the rotting dragon?"

The two spirits who could be said to be Zhengui's parents, one dead and eternally regenerating, the other chained and bound powering the Sect's formations.

Elder Ying pursed her lips. "Old sins. You aren't the first to make friends with foreigners, disciple. Though you might be the first to try to make it more. You know a certain Elder of the old Argent Peak Sect was a traveler of the world."

The sword saint, the grave with the broken sword, Xuan Shi's favorite author, who had died in Ogodei's invasion, holding back the invader so that the disciples of the Sect could evacuate. "Then why…"

"Wars are ugly things, and we make sacrifices, and debase ourselves to win them. In the tales the hero's virtue wins, but it is never so clean," Elder Ying said absently, gazing up at the sky. "Well, I have my oaths. You'll learn something of our sacrifices, running about in the liminal with your spirit beast."

Ling Qi wasn't fully happy with that answer, but she could feel the crushing pressure with which the word 'oaths' was spoken. It was not some idle promise she spoke of, but something soul deep, carved right into the base of the Elders cultivation.
Nothing comes for free. Especially not breaking the storm that broke the province.

She can only give hints, I reckon Zhengui is a key to actually reaching those histories.
"You will," she said. "Does your conviction come from the Duchess I wonder? What she has is no thing you can achieve with normal methods, I think."
"Is there any such thing as a normal method for reaching sovereignty?" Ling Qi said. "...But no, I don't think I want the same. It's… you can grow without becoming unmoored. Without returning to isolation. The weak are not a burden to be borne, and lack of power is not… something that makes people lesser."

"You truly are a bit greedy," Elder Ying said, looking at her with amusement.
Indeed. The ambition to fill the void.
Though she's not entirely wrong.
Shenhua's cheat is inspiring. And horrifying.


[ ] The purpose of protection is to preserve Choice, both your own and of those you shield.

Choice is Power, Choice is Freedom, Choice is Life.
In preserving choice, one must sacrifice commitment.
Freedom assured is also freedom to choose wrong.
In protecting their freedom, they may choose death, as we had offered to Sixiang twice now.
Choice requires knowledge and power, or it is no choice at all.

[ ] The purpose of protection is to preserve your World, to maintain the community, the things and people you have.

Of the hearth fire against the darkness, of the line between the Community and the Other, if you cannot protect everything, then protect what matters to you.
A path tread by many tyrants.
Sun Shao's bloody trail is rooted in this.
Xia Ren protects her people by destroying the way of life they cherish.
The Hui tearing the province asunder to ensure none challenge their shakey throne.
The Forever King watches.



[X] The purpose of protection is to preserve Choice, both your own and of those you shield.

To ensure that our protection does not become worse than what it shields from.
 
[X] The purpose of protection is to preserve Choice, both your own and of those you shield.
 
Mmm, as a philosophy/character vote, interrogating the options is as - if not more - important than the actual vote. So I'm gonna muse.

[ ] The purpose of protection is to preserve Choice, both your own and of those you shield.
[ ] The purpose of protection is to preserve your World, to maintain the community, the things and people you have.


In both of these we see common threads of LQ's wants and desires, and her focus on protecting her friends. Looking back through our history, why have we focused on defense and protection? What motivates LQ?

A major element, of course, was simply what worked best for our build. With our lower dps slow rolling build up and support focus making sure that we could stay alive was critical, and so we focused on our defenses. Yet what motivated this? other thing of course our moon art gacha :V

A strong element I think can be seen in our generally cautious and loss averse approach to things. Broadly speaking, LQ has taken the principle that the most important thing is to survive. If you survive you can recover, adapt, and come back. If you risk it all on a big win and die then you can't do shit. In that sense then, the purpose of protection is to ensure we can live to fight another day - and one could frame that as preserving choice or agency.

At the same time, it is worth thinking about what choice is for. "Choice" or agency, or [Power] is important because it's what allows you the pursuit of happiness. If you lack power, you can lose the ability to follow the path that will make you happy and end up stealing blankets from old men and abandoning your friends and feeling awful about it because you're a bad girl. And on this angle LQ has very much focused here on achieving security and friendship (which also provides security). This has also been one of the challenges LQ has been grappling with in her motivations - much of what drives her is just that pursuit of security, which is kind of conservative. She doesn't necessarily want to do much - she just wants to be able to live comfortably in a world she can be happy with her friends and family, and from here we can see a focus on protecting the things that you value. The friends and family and shiny objects that make you happy. There is a very "and then what?" element to Ling Qi's motivations, which she's sort of covering up with [Motion] and "stagnation is death"... but like it's not as if things have to be perfect to be good enough. Looking at things this way, the second option is perhaps more [Want] focused when compared to the first's [Power].

Yet while the second option highlights some of the tensions between LQ's vague aspirations and her beliefs, it does not make any particular motions towards resolving them. Instead, it could be argued that it is the first option that starts to look at how things could be pulled together by emphasising a more dynamic framing of the happy life LQ wants to achieve. Framing things not as the protection of a happy existence, but on the opportunity to flourish and find happiness. Speaking of protecting other's ability to make choices might sound a bit weird ideal-wise, but we could also reframe it as protecting their ability to pursue happiness, to have opportunity. To at a minimum just not die so we can try again or just do something better. Choice, or "power", is necessarily required for this in LQ's framing as choice/power is defined as the ability to do what will make you happy. The community extension also follows naturally here from our advanced insights which are all about relationships with others and how managing choices there is needed to find happiness.

So with all that said I think I've convinced myself to go with:
[X] The purpose of protection is to preserve Choice, both your own and of those you shield.


But it's important I think to be thinking about why LQ focuses on choice.
 
There is a very "and then what?" element to Ling Qi's motivations, which she's sort of covering up with [Motion] and "stagnation is death"...
I disagree with that, personally. There's this strange belief in the thread that cultivating for safety being endless is some kind of contradiction. It's like you think "stagnation is death" is a metaphor or something.
 
I disagree with that, personally. There's this strange belief in the thread that cultivating for safety being endless is some kind of contradiction. It's like you think "stagnation is death" is a metaphor or something.
I mean the motivation is very heavily driven by the idea that if you can just become the strongest then no-one will be able to push you around and you'll be safe right?

As LQ grows though she has to grapple with the fact that that's not really the case, and the world is messier than that. That, to an extent, her dream is impossible to ever perfectly achieve. And like yeah, stagnation is death. Do not stand still. Always improve. Learn and adapt in pursuit of an ever moving target as you exist in an imperfect state in an imperfect world.

But does that actually require you to reach the peak of cultivation and physical power? Because once you accept that you can't get ultimate power and it wouldn't solve your problems anyway and you're always going to be running on a treadmill and constantly adjusting... why not stop at prism?

Motion is arguably part of refining what she wants yes. But I'm not sure she's there yet.
 
I mean the motivation is very heavily driven by the idea that if you can just become the strongest then no-one will be able to push you around and you'll be safe right?

As LQ grows though she has to grapple with the fact that that's not really the case, and the world is messier than that. That, to an extent, her dream is impossible to ever perfectly achieve. And like yeah, stagnation is death. Do not stand still. Always improve. Learn and adapt in pursuit of an ever moving target as you exist in an imperfect state in an imperfect world.

But does that actually require you to reach the peak of cultivation and physical power? Because once you accept that you can't get ultimate power and it wouldn't solve your problems anyway and you're always going to be running on a treadmill and constantly adjusting... why not stop at prism?

Motion is arguably part of refining what she wants yes. But I'm not sure she's there yet.
It's more relative than that, at least in this setting. The stronger you are, the fewer there will be who can push you around. You can't stop at Prism because of Sun Shao or the Empress or maybe even Shenhua if Renxing's plan doesn't work. It's starting to look like you can't stop at White because of actors like Unity of Blades. And there's probably power levels even in the heavens. It doesn't require reaching the peak because there is no peak. Safety through strength isn't a contradiction, it's just incomplete.
 
And then what?
That's a question that quite often just has the answer of "and then we do it again" when it comes to social movements and change, or just basic survival.
We go get food, we gather firewood, we build/repair/rebuild, we fight for our rights and those of others.
And then what?
And then we do all that, again, and again, and again, and again, until there is nothing left.
Because some struggles never end.

And even once Ling Qi reaches White, it does not mean she finally can stop, the struggles just, get bigger, until she ascends, after which the fight keeps going.
You fight to protect those you love, not because you think that at some point all threats are gone, but because, well, what else are you going to do, leave them unprotected?
 
[X] The purpose of protection is to preserve your World, to maintain the community, the things and people you have.

I know I'm betting on the losing horse here, but I would still like to make a stand for World.
Choice may seem like a better fit at first glance because that's the theme of Ling Qi's recent tribulation. However, that's the conclusion that she has arrived at, not the base of her reasoning.

Troughout all the quest, Ling Qi has pondered about the nature of Freedom and how it interwines with Power and Home. She has realized that, ultimately, a person is only as free as their circumstances and power let them. You can't afford the luxury of Choice if you are starving and freezing in the street, after all. Privation negates Choice.
So, before she can think of protecting hers and her people's agency, she has to protect the kind of environment, the kind of World, that will let them thrive and attain the Power they need to have Choice.

I don't think there is much risk of running into a stasis of stagnation problem here. Not with Ling Qi's insights about Cycles and Motion. A mutable, everchanging World is still worth protecting, specially when you are precisely protecting its ability to change.
 
[X] The purpose of protection is to preserve your World, to maintain the community, the things and people you have.

I know I'm betting on the losing horse here, but I would still like to make a stand for World.
Choice may seem like a better fit at first glance because that's the theme of Ling Qi's recent tribulation. However, that's the conclusion that she has arrived at, not the base of her reasoning.

Troughout all the quest, Ling Qi has pondered about the nature of Freedom and how it interwines with Power and Home. She has realized that, ultimately, a person is only as free as their circumstances and power let them. You can't afford the luxury of Choice if you are starving and freezing in the street, after all. Privation negates Choice.
So, before she can think of protecting hers and her people's agency, she has to protect the kind of environment, the kind of World, that will let them thrive and attain the Power they need to have Choice.

I don't think there is much risk of running into a stasis of stagnation problem here. Not with Ling Qi's insights about Cycles and Motion. A mutable, everchanging World is still worth protecting, specially when you are precisely protecting its ability to change.

Th problem with this option isn't the World part, it's the 'have' and 'your' parts. This is extraordinarily possessive language and that's a really bad thing. Ling Qi is already possessive enough, and honestly anything that takes her more strongly in that direction, particularly something like this that can all too easily shade into truly feeling ownership and a desire to control people to 'protect them from themselves' is a bad call.

In short, despite any advantages to preserving a world over preserving choice, the down sides of this option are glaring and potentially lead to really bad outcomes and I don't think they're an acceptable risk to take.
 
[X] The purpose of protection is to preserve Choice, both your own and of those you shield.
 
[X] The purpose of protection is to preserve Choice, both your own and of those you shield.
 
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