Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Been really on the fence but have eventually leaned just a little this way. Also, this will tie the vote (for now) and that's funny to me. No longer tied, but hey, we finally have a properly close vote.
[X] Speak with the craftsman and hill nobles (Begin Political Quest, Craftsmen's Eye. Other route locked until Part 1 completion.)
[X] Speak with the craftsman and hill nobles (Begin Political Quest, Craftsmen's Eye. Other route locked until Part 1 completion.)
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
I'm not exactly seeing this as a "make trade goods before we have a trade route" thing here. Local production is valuable in that it:
-Produces an export before the major trade route is set up. Which means we get lesser trade routes starting up. Yes, it wouldn't be especially unique, and thus would not be trading long distance...our immediate neighbors are not going to be disconnected from us due to provincial politics(which we know some upheavals are coming).
-Bolsters the value of local production. Remember those spirit plant seeds we have? Would be nice to have them refined into pills locally, or at least more compact extracts before we export them, because that way you get more value per cargo space, or even use them locally to bolster our forces. Same with any local animal or mineral products.
-Provides a local source of essential equipment, we probably should not be importing rank and file equipment and wards if we can help it, and nurturing local producers is a key element of not having our equipment traveling in shipments that can be raided or robbed easily.
-Processing goods before they head on to their final stop is pretty lucrative. Sure, far southern iron is valuable, but we'd make more if we had them refined locally into tools and equipment before selling them further north, and likewise, if we have the local crafts capacity, wooden crafts would sell for more per cargo volume than bulk logs. It is unlikely that we have the capacity to convert the entire shipment, but every bit done is a profit.
Now whether this is as valuable as ensuring that the trade route holders are on board with the new route rather than looking for ways to sabotage or get buy in, is up for speculation. But this isn't entirely about trade goods or happy craftsmen.
-Produces an export before the major trade route is set up. Which means we get lesser trade routes starting up. Yes, it wouldn't be especially unique, and thus would not be trading long distance...our immediate neighbors are not going to be disconnected from us due to provincial politics(which we know some upheavals are coming).
-Bolsters the value of local production. Remember those spirit plant seeds we have? Would be nice to have them refined into pills locally, or at least more compact extracts before we export them, because that way you get more value per cargo space, or even use them locally to bolster our forces. Same with any local animal or mineral products.
-Provides a local source of essential equipment, we probably should not be importing rank and file equipment and wards if we can help it, and nurturing local producers is a key element of not having our equipment traveling in shipments that can be raided or robbed easily.
-Processing goods before they head on to their final stop is pretty lucrative. Sure, far southern iron is valuable, but we'd make more if we had them refined locally into tools and equipment before selling them further north, and likewise, if we have the local crafts capacity, wooden crafts would sell for more per cargo volume than bulk logs. It is unlikely that we have the capacity to convert the entire shipment, but every bit done is a profit.
Now whether this is as valuable as ensuring that the trade route holders are on board with the new route rather than looking for ways to sabotage or get buy in, is up for speculation. But this isn't entirely about trade goods or happy craftsmen.
Something to keep in mind is that trade looks very different in the Empire (and especially in the Emerald Seas) than we are used to. The Bao are mercantilist and thus have some resemblance to modern economic thought (though mercantilism is still quite different than a modern free market) but most of nobility is going to make its money from rent-seeking. Or, if we are uncharitable, protection money.
Every single noble who has the goods cross their land is going to demand a portion of the goods and the traders will mostly not be able to contest that because they need nobility's active cooperation to not die. Failing to willingly give the nobility a share may even result in them having all their goods seized by force.
Our own peers are probably a bigger threat to trade than the monsters.
Every single noble who has the goods cross their land is going to demand a portion of the goods and the traders will mostly not be able to contest that because they need nobility's active cooperation to not die. Failing to willingly give the nobility a share may even result in them having all their goods seized by force.
Our own peers are probably a bigger threat to trade than the monsters.
[X] Speak with the craftsman and hill nobles (Begin Political Quest, Craftsmen's Eye. Other route locked until Part 1 completion.)
I think this is more important. Take it into account that these lords currently produce metal, and that if our trade plans are successful we may very well get a flood of cheap metal into the province. That will affect them directly, and they deserve a heads up in order to focus more on the processing and making goods part instead of the mining
I think this is more important. Take it into account that these lords currently produce metal, and that if our trade plans are successful we may very well get a flood of cheap metal into the province. That will affect them directly, and they deserve a heads up in order to focus more on the processing and making goods part instead of the mining
It's worth noting that relatively local craftsmen are valuable trade partners in their own right. They'll have goods we want to buy for our fief; our fief will have goods they'll want to buy. Not just stuff we're getting from far south, but locally sourced stuff like beast materials and so on. We're a ways further south into the foothills of the Wall, there's likely to be some regional variety in resources that justify trading back and forth.
Plus, setting up our lands is going to involve a lot of low-level infrastructure work, which takes resources, expertise, and even labour we may not have on hand. Or our current contacts (Renxiang/Argent Sect) might connect us to more distant or expensive variants of any of those than is strictly needed. For example, we don't want to hire a 3rd realm Inner Sect expert when a first or second realm knows how to set up a quarry for basic materials just as well. It's bad economics unless there's a political objective to go alongside it. (Which there may be at times, which is fine)
The need for trade further abroad seems likely to mostly be restricted (at least for a pretty long time) to expertise, specialty resources for personal cultivation, and high-strategy things likely provided by the Cai and out of our budget anyway. The main benefit for trade further abroad, at least in the foreseeable future, is the potential for more money by selling southern imports as exotic goods to rich people on the other end of the province, or further.
And yeah, the kinds of contacts you foster doing that are useful for a lot of things. I just tend to be conservative when it comes to securing base sustainability before expansion.
Plus, setting up our lands is going to involve a lot of low-level infrastructure work, which takes resources, expertise, and even labour we may not have on hand. Or our current contacts (Renxiang/Argent Sect) might connect us to more distant or expensive variants of any of those than is strictly needed. For example, we don't want to hire a 3rd realm Inner Sect expert when a first or second realm knows how to set up a quarry for basic materials just as well. It's bad economics unless there's a political objective to go alongside it. (Which there may be at times, which is fine)
The need for trade further abroad seems likely to mostly be restricted (at least for a pretty long time) to expertise, specialty resources for personal cultivation, and high-strategy things likely provided by the Cai and out of our budget anyway. The main benefit for trade further abroad, at least in the foreseeable future, is the potential for more money by selling southern imports as exotic goods to rich people on the other end of the province, or further.
And yeah, the kinds of contacts you foster doing that are useful for a lot of things. I just tend to be conservative when it comes to securing base sustainability before expansion.
Last edited:
- Location
- Lost!
[X] Speak with the nobles whose lands lie on the trade road. (Begin Political Quest, old Road/New Road Part 1. Other route locked until Part 1 completion)
...I just like roads and bridges and the like. I hope this means we get to participate in the road building!
...I just like roads and bridges and the like. I hope this means we get to participate in the road building!
- Location
- the internet
Yup, agreed. Crafters can't sell goods if tariffs are too high. No customers will want to buy from an area that's to expensive to travel to...
Also what state are the roads even in? Are there issues they need help with? Spirit troubles? Banditry? Or are a few nobles perhaps just being a tad greedy? These things should to be looked into before we explore trade goods--its good sense to address logistics first.
- Location
- South Africa
Personally I think that for both options it will be easier choosing it second: Either we will bring established goods or we will bring an established route. That said I believe that the road is more important: especially in light of there being an ongoing war (even if we are partially removed from it) and thus the chances of raids or worse are high.
[X] Speak with the nobles whose lands lie on the trade road. (Begin Political Quest, old Road/New Road Part 1. Other route locked until Part 1 completion
[X] Speak with the nobles whose lands lie on the trade road. (Begin Political Quest, old Road/New Road Part 1. Other route locked until Part 1 completion
- Location
- Finland
Also we kinda need to build our fief, and that means transporting lot of stuff, and people.
And while i don't think anyone is going to start playing silly games with direct retainer of the Cai building a fief, being friendly can smooth things out and get more than just people not getting in your way.
And while i don't think anyone is going to start playing silly games with direct retainer of the Cai building a fief, being friendly can smooth things out and get more than just people not getting in your way.