Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
"It just feels like I'm sliding backward," Ling Qi said quietly, clasping her hands. "I… would I have stood by and remained silent if it was you there?"
Good question.
Meizhen fell silent as the figure of an Elder Ling Qi did not know blinked into view below, at the overseers table. "I trust you would not. Ling Qi, it seems to me that you must make it clear to yourself, where your limits lie, your trouble lies in a lack of surety."
I love that Meizhen had to take a moment. Always nice to see Meizhen valuing our friendship.
She had decided that she didn't want to betray friends, but where did that line lie? Who was a friend, and what counted as betrayal?
Everything else aside, I do appreciate that the Bloody Moon event made LQ ask these questions. They seem really important for solidifying her Way.

[X] Disciples 802-814
 
I completely agree that Ling Qi didn't feel like that, I just think it's hypocritical as fuck.

Shen Hu went into the dream because he felt he was stagnating and wanting to get back into doing difficult and life threatening things. He flat out said it. He then decided to protect mortals because he thought that no matter what this action couldn't be wrong. Once he failed, he was grateful for the experience because it's explicitly the kind of thing he expects to do once he goes back home.

I agree on what thing rattled Ling Qi, I just think it's extremely selfish of her to not realise that it would go against Shen Hu's own desire. If it was Xiulan in Shen Hu's place, can you imagine how pissed she would be if Ling Qi had asked to save her and stolen her own tribulation away?

You keep looking at this event with the benefit of hindsight and the knowledge that both of them won't be killed in the dream.

This isn't what Ling knew or felt when making her choice. The whole 'he would totally object to Ling Qi stealing his tribulation' is nonsense because as far as Ling Qi knew a cyan+ spirit was going to straight up kill Shen Hu.

Like, yeah, at the end of the event Shen Hu profited; but the fact that Ling Qi had no idea if he was going to survive when she made her choice is the actual problem.
 
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You keep looking at this event with the benefit of hindsight and the knowledge that both of them won't be killed in the dream.

This isn't what Ling knew or felt when making her choice. The whole 'he would totally object to Ling Qi stealing his tribulation' is nonsense because as far as Ling Qi knew a cyan+ spirit was going to straight up kill Shen Hu.

Like, yeah, at the end of the event Shen Hu profited; but Ling Qi had no idea if he was going to survive when she made her choice was is the actual problem.
From that perspective yeah, you're right. Ling Qi having regrets about the choice as it was in that moment is not hypocritical because it's not really about the risk to get stronger thing. I was talking about the choice as it actually appears, which is related but separated because of that hindsight.
 
It is, if some time into it Shen Hu didn't go and make another choice to split up. After which point from my perspective and reading of Shen Hu he was taking his own safety into his own hands instead of the joined hands of the team.

E: and yes I know this is basically goalpost shifting but I was an idiot who misspoke on my first post. Like, I see this regret thing she has as a variation of the Hero trying to carry every burden and every consequence on their shoulders instead of letting the people carry them and essentially invalidating other character's ability to affect their own path. That old sausage.
Mmm, I see your point, but I don't really agree. Shen Hu basically looked at the oncoming King, and said "look, all this politics and talking with super-spirits really is not my thing and I'm out of my depth and would just get in your way. I'm gonna go do what I'm comfortable with". I don't think this means that the party is irrevocably split and Ling Qi should just forget he exists.

Her meeting the King and going "oh shit Shen Hu has, if anything, actually put himself in more danger than staying here would have been, maybe I should actually accomplish something like I intended to do by staying here and help him out" is, I think, perfectly reasonable.
 
From that perspective yeah, you're right. Ling Qi having regrets about the choice as it was in that moment is not hypocritical because it's not really about the risk to get stronger thing. I was talking about the choice as it actually appears, which is related but separated because of that hindsight.

Sorry, I kinda have problems parsing that paragraph. What did you mean by 'I was talking about the choice as it actually appears'?
 
[X] Disciples 802-814

I want Xuan Shi's stat block. Not that we'd fight him, but I'm curious about his build.

On the Shen Hu debacle, I'd say any concerns about training and personal growth go out the window when a White spirit decides to wipe your friend out. If Ling Qi assumed that the scenario was more real than not, then leaving Shen Hu to an unavoidable fate (because White) was a dick move.

I voted for a blessing because I was working under the idea that the scenario was more test than not, so the primary objective was to grab all the goodies you can. Bit of a disconnect between character and voter there.
 
Sorry, I kinda have problems parsing that paragraph. What did you mean by 'I was talking about the choice as it actually appears'?
Oops, um...

Okay so what I'm saying is that there are two things which Ling Qi could be reasonably regretful about in the present. They both hinge around the idea of the choice with the King. One is a regret of "When faced with the possibility of killing him through my fear, I saved my own hide". That's what I mean when I say "Ling Qi having regrets about the choice as it was in that moment". The second is a regret based on "I look back, and I potentially took something from him/put him at risk by doing what I did". (It's hard to get in her head) More or less, this is looking at the same choice, but with the benefit of hindsight. And having regrets about the choice with the benefits of hindsight is hypocritical because the regret shifts from "Holy shit if this was real he could be dead and it's my fault" to "I took a chance away from him to get stronger etc etc" and that second thing is hypocritical because of the agency it strips from the other person.

Having regrets about the idea behind the choice as it is without the benefit of hindsight i.e "If this was real my choice could have killed him" is actually quite reasonable.

I want Xuan Shi's stat block. Not that we'd fight him, but I'm curious about his build.
This is actually a great reason in my opinion, as thinking about it I think there are more interesting people in 802-814 than the other bracket. In large part because we know more people, but haven't seen their stats in the new system. E: though I just realized upon double checking that Xuan Shi is rank 801, not 802. So we won't see his stats, but we'll probably see Liling's.
 
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Oops, um...

Okay so what I'm saying is that there are two things which Ling Qi could be reasonably regretful about in the present. They both hinge around the idea of the choice with the King. One is a regret of "When faced with the possibility of killing him through my fear, I saved my own hide". That's what I mean when I say "Ling Qi having regrets about the choice as it was in that moment". The second is a regret based on "I look back, and I potentially took something from him by doing what I did". (It's hard to get in her head) More or less, this is looking at the same choice, but with the benefit of hindsight. And having regrets about the choice with the benefits of hindsight is hypocritical because the regret shifts from "Holy shit if this was real he could be dead and it's my fault" to "I took a chance away from him to get stronger etc etc" and that second thing is hypocritical because of the agency it strips from the other person.

Having regrets about the idea behind the choice as it is without the benefit of hindsight i.e "If this was real my choice could have killed him" is actually quite reasonable.


This is actually a great reason in my opinion, as thinking about it I think there are more interesting people in 802-814 than the other bracket. In large part because we know more people, but haven't seen their stats in the new system.

Ahh, Ok.

Given Ling Qi immediate reaction when asking for the boon and mentioning to Meizhen that she doubts whether she would have chosen to ask the King to spare Meizhen if she was there, I am pretty sure she regrets her choice that she made then without foreknowledge; and she now questions her own resolve.

(Maybe we will get a scene where the challenged disciple would shout at Ling Qi about how her punches are weak or somesuch).
 
Wait. We can end up placing higher than Sun.

[X] Disciples 802-814

I am voting just for to get higher than Sun and proceed to tweak her nose.
 
Ahh, Ok.

Given Ling Qi immediate reaction when asking for the boon and mentioning to Meizhen that she doubts whether she would have chosen to ask the King to spare Meizhen if she was there, I am pretty sure she regrets her choice that she made then without foreknowledge; and she now questions her own resolve.

(Maybe we will get a scene where the challenged disciple would shout at Ling Qi about how her punches are weak or somesuch).
Same to be honest. Though I don't actually expect Ling Qi's first challenge to be a combat one, since I think with this challenge Yrs is setting the stage for the idea "Challenges can be anything, so long as skills align". And people have been talking about rap offs before and some such.

Damn it, you're right. Well, at least we can get a better look a Sun Liling and use her as a point of comparison.
Which is good, because I've been missing having that signpost on hand. She's not good for comparison beyond our combat suite, and even inside that she's mostly good for raw comparison of "how much ouch does Ling Qi hold". but still.
 
I wanna fight Ren-Ren :(
I do too to be honest. I fully expect her to kick Ling Qi's ass up one side and down the other in a challenge or more serious full length spar since I think her shtick is also field control but BURNY BLINKY and she does it better.
 
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I do too to be honest. I fully expect her to kick Ling Qi's ass up one side and down the other in a challenge or more serious full length spar since I think her shtick is also field control but BURNY BLINKY and she does it better.
Well, more importantly she has those mean OP dispels and our Resist is too weak because we lack specific Arts for that.
 
[X] Disciples 802-814
I doubt most cultivators here are on the level of Sun or Cai (it was stated that our year is abnormal) and we will need to research them sooner or later anyway.
 
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[X] Disciples 815-825

There is no actual rush to "go big or go home". There are going to be 24 of these challenge periods over the next two years. Why not test the waters on the first one by aiming a little lower and gain some valuable experience?
 
Mmm, I see your point, but I don't really agree. Shen Hu basically looked at the oncoming King, and said "look, all this politics and talking with super-spirits really is not my thing and I'm out of my depth and would just get in your way. I'm gonna go do what I'm comfortable with". I don't think this means that the party is irrevocably split and Ling Qi should just forget he exists.

Her meeting the King and going "oh shit Shen Hu has, if anything, actually put himself in more danger than staying here would have been, maybe I should actually accomplish something like I intended to do by staying here and help him out" is, I think, perfectly reasonable.
Although I think this is somewhat justifying the decision with hindsight rather than IC actions I still agree with you.
 
So, from what I am looking at, it seems that there is a real reason we want to win this challenges @PrimalShadow. You mentioned earlier that this was only 20YSS, and it is, but it should be just the tipping point to getting 8GSS next turn if the math on income is right. @DeAnno ?

That does tempt me to go for the 'safe' choice, as 20YSS next turn is more important than staying at that rank for long. Mmmh.

You keep looking at this event with the benefit of hindsight and the knowledge that both of them won't be killed in the dream.

This isn't what Ling knew or felt when making her choice. The whole 'he would totally object to Ling Qi stealing his tribulation' is nonsense because as far as Ling Qi knew a cyan+ spirit was going to straight up kill Shen Hu.

Like, yeah, at the end of the event Shen Hu profited; but the fact that Ling Qi had no idea if he was going to survive when she made her choice is the actual problem.
Mmm, I see your point, but I don't really agree. Shen Hu basically looked at the oncoming King, and said "look, all this politics and talking with super-spirits really is not my thing and I'm out of my depth and would just get in your way. I'm gonna go do what I'm comfortable with". I don't think this means that the party is irrevocably split and Ling Qi should just forget he exists.

Her meeting the King and going "oh shit Shen Hu has, if anything, actually put himself in more danger than staying here would have been, maybe I should actually accomplish something like I intended to do by staying here and help him out" is, I think, perfectly reasonable.
That is not Shen Hu's reasons for leaving, though:
Shen Hu was silent for a moment. "I don't know if you were wrong, and I don't know how to figure it out. Maybe its like you said, and we have it backwards. "But… I think there's something we can do to keep it simple."

"Oh? What's that?" Ling Qi asked curiously.

"We see if there's any settlements around," Shen Hu replied firmly, gesturing to the battle torn forest. "All of this, if there are people around they gotta be scared out of their minds. And besides anyone attacking civilians is obviously the bad guys, right?"

"...and if there aren't?" Ling Qi asked, dubious. "No one lives here in the future."

He frowned. "Then I guess we ask the King guy what he wants us to do, we sided with him already by helping the tree."

Ling Qi sighed, they did have pretty limited options, dropping her screen of wind, she called out to the tree spirit. "Vengeance-of-Burning-Grove! Are there any human settlements nearby?"

Creaking and crackling the tree spirit turned to look at her. "South of here there is a stream, follow it and you will find a nest." He replied.

She glanced at Shen Hu, who shrugged. "You know where I'm going then. "Guys like me don't have any business with this high up stuff."
This wasn't "I am doing this because going to the King is more dangerous", but "I am doing this because it fits what I want to do better".

Now, there is a legit argument for "In the presence of a Not!White, Ling Qi panicked and believed that Shen Hu was in danger of being straight up murdered by a Cyan". This specific fear didn't come to me in the text (maybe I missed it?), and I think at the time it would have been really strange to think this could happen.... but even if it did, wasn't that the exact kind of fear Meizhen has when Ling Qi meet with Zeqing, or got to a moon party? Or when Xiulan goes to one of her tribulation?

I mean, Shen Hu's reasoning, before going into the moon dream, was this:
"It's fine," Shen Hu replied. "What do you think? I could head in with Lanhua. I doubt anything will take us out in one shot, if it's a trap."

"I don't think it's a trap exactly," Ling Qi began slowly as Sixiang fed her more information. "It's more like...this valley is part way into a dream?" she felt Sixiang's approving nod. "So we can't sense things inside from outside properly."

Shen Hu cupped his chin thoughtfully, but she saw a spark of excitement in his brown eyes. "Oh? I've never fought in a dream before," he paused furrowing his brow. "Well not that I remember anyway. Are you coming in?"

Ling Qi couldn't help but roll her eyes at his eagerness… this guy, he really would go in with nothing but his spirit beast and not a single scrap of information. Of course, she couldn't say she was any better. She hated wasting time. There was never really any question as to whether she would brave whatever was ahead. "Yes, I will. Bring Lanhua up. You'll need to be my cover."
It is pretty clear to me that he was ready to risk his life, and Ling Qi knew it. That Ling Qi's fear is reasonable doesn't change that she is doing the exact thing she doesn't want people to do to herself.
 
[X] Disciples 815-825

Going to try putting the case for aiming lower; if Ling Qi wins a challenge and moves forward her contribution points are refunded, by contrast if she loses than they will go to the winning disciple.

Doing contribution points mission only gives 1-4 points per AP so gambling them isn't very wise, particularly when Ling Qi is missing Zhen Gui and is 1-2 month away from a large jump in power.
 
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That is not Shen Hu's reasons for leaving, though:
This wasn't "I am doing this because going to the King is more dangerous", but "I am doing this because it fits what I want to do better".

Now, there is a legit argument for "In the presence of a Not!White, Ling Qi panicked and believed that Shen Hu was in danger of being straight up murdered by a Cyan". This specific fear didn't come to me in the text (maybe I missed it?), and I think at the time it would have been really strange to think this could happen.... but even if it did, wasn't that the exact kind of fear Meizhen has when Ling Qi meet with Zeqing, or got to a moon party? Or when Xiulan goes to one of her tribulation?

I mean, Shen Hu's reasoning, before going into the moon dream, was this:
It is pretty clear to me that he was ready to risk his life, and Ling Qi knew it. That Ling Qi's fear is reasonable doesn't change that she is doing the exact thing she doesn't want people to do to herself.
Mmm, fair. That being said, he also said that he didn't think he could do anything by staying, so he chose to do what he could do.
"I am, I might not be there yet… but dealing with the 'big stuff' is going to be part of my job some day," Ling Qi replied dryly. "Can I talk you into staying?"

"No," he replied shaking his head. "It'd be pointless. I can't do anything here."

That doesn't mean that she should just now forget he exists and assume the test is now purely individual and any assistance would just be unnecessary interference.
 
That doesn't mean that she should just now forget he exists and assume the test is now purely individual and any assistance would just be unnecessary interference.
Mmmh. So you are thinking, what? Both side help each other as some kind of teamplay under the assumption that this is much harder than expected and if either wants even a chance to survive it they need to help each others?

I guess Ling Qi might have been paralysed by fear at the White aura and really think so. This might be me misreading this as "At that point there is no reason for Ling Qi to think this was more dangerous for Shen Hu than Ling Qi herself getting surprised tribulation by Zeqing".
 
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