Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.

I'm pretty sure it was Ling Qi's previous toxic attitude towards our peers that "undermined our broad goal of engaging with our peers on a larger scale". I'd bet it was much more convincing than what... picking what prey we hunt? And he was doing us a favor. When we were basically disliked by everyone except immediate Cai allies he offered us a chance to talk with people and change their opinion of us.

As for Bao, yeah, fair point. But as far as I can see it never goes further than trying to convince Spider-girl herlsef, which is how problems are solved among people. So I still think that's too harsh. He's certainly stubborn, pushy and canny but he's not bad, I think.
 
Anyone else see similarities between Meng Diu and Meizhen's father? They both cultivate not being seen, though Lady Meng seems to cultivate ambiguity and secrecy whereas Hou Zhuang cultivate obscurity and being beneath notice. What if her grandson is the same?
[X] Accept the offer, you can convince Renxiang and sponsorship from even a faction of a count house is a valuable thing.
Imagine if we could arrange a marriage between him and Meizhen.
For the same reason her spy father was married off to her spymistress mother the young Meng could be Hou Zhuang with a diplomatic bent the way Meizhen is her mother's more gracious successor. It'd ensure an alliance between the Meng and Bai and it'd be thematically appropriate for Meizhen to marry a similar man as the father she despises who doesn't have the flaw that made her hate him. It'd turn them into a power duo like Meizhen's parents, her the spymistress, him the courtier and leave us as our friends favorite infiltrator.
I vote we not try setting Meizhen with some guy.
And not just because she is into girls and in a relationship.

And on that note...
They might have arrived together, but it looked like they were avoiding being too obvious away from the Sect. Ling Qi felt a pang of annoyance on Meizhen's behalf, but that was just how things were.
Ling Qi the LGBT rights activist when? :thonk:
 
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I'm pretty sure it was Ling Qi's previous toxic attitude towards our peers that "undermined our broad goal of engaging with our peers on a larger scale". I'd bet it was much more convincing than what... picking what prey we hunt? And he was doing us a favor. When we were basically disliked by everyone except immediate Cai allies he offered us a chance to talk with people and change their opinion of us.

As for Bao, yeah, fair point. But as far as I can see it never goes further than trying to convince Spider-girl herlsef, which is how problems are solved among people. So I still think that's too harsh. He's certainly stubborn, pushy and canny but he's not bad, I think.
He's fine, just not worth our time. Our specific needs aren't compatible with how much he's up his own ass. His poking and prodding and manipulating the flow of the party so we couldn't relax, or look good without looking bad, and generally herding us around is like I said something he's allowed to do. But in doing it, he wasn't being conscientious of our time constraints. We don't have the luxury of loafing around the sect for half a decade or more like he does.

Our circumstances put a lot of demands on us, which puts a lot of demands on our trusted social contacts as well. He can't or won't stop fucking around, so he excludes himself from that category. This doesn't make him a bad person or evil, just inept at recognizing needs that differ from his. Or differentiating other people's needs from his.
 
I vote we not try setting Meizhen with some guy.
And not just because she is into girls and in a relationship.
Marriage doesn't mean a 'relationship'. It's securing alliances and influence and raising the next generation beholden to both sides of the agreement for a lasting deal. She can still be with Qingling or whomever on the side but unlike Qingling Meizhen has a use for the kind of opportunities marriage allows. If the Meng is a nice guy I'm thinking they could be friends working together for the betterment of Meizhen's station and thus the faction of the Bai that benefits the Meng. Not everyone is Ling Qi or share our modern views.
 
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Marriage doesn't mean a 'relationship'. It's securing alliances and influence and raising the next generation beholden to both sides of the agreement for a lasting deal. She can still be with Qingling or whomever on the side but unlike Qingling Meizhen has a use for the kind of opportunities marriage allows. If the Meng is a nice guy I'm thinking they could be friends working together for the betterment of Meizhen's station and thus the faction of the Bai that benefits the Meng. Not everyone is Ling Qi or share our modern views.


Marrying an outsider is very unlikely for meizhen as it seems that her aunt wishes to adopt her and possibly groom her for the next heirship role. Shell want political connections WITHIN the bai as they are a very fractious family with different clans and ideologies. It would be more beneficial for her to marry a cousin as she previously stated to help shore up any doubts about her within her own family.
 
Marriage doesn't mean a 'relationship'. It's securing alliances and influence and raising the next generation beholden to both sides of the agreement for a lasting deal. She can still be with Qingling or whomever on the side but unlike Qingling Meizhen has a use for the kind of opportunities marriage allows. If the Meng is a nice guy I'm thinking they could be friends working together for the betterment of Meizhen's station and thus the faction of the Bai that benefits the Meng. Not everyone is Ling Qi or share our modern views.
Meizhen is perfectly capable of finding her own husband, and if not, her clan will.
We should not be setting Meizhen up with random guys just because they fit some theme, or at all.
 
Meizhen's marital prospects aren't super relevant right now. If anything, Ling Qi should be worrying about her sister if she wants to get involved in matchmaking. As soon as she breaks through to Cyan and her title becomes hereditary, people are going to start asking after her heir.
 
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Marrying an outsider is very unlikely for meizhen as it seems that her aunt wishes to adopt her and possibly groom her for the next heirship role. Shell want political connections WITHIN the bai as they are a very fractious family with different clans and ideologies. It would be more beneficial for her to marry a cousin as she previously stated to help shore up any doubts about her within her own family.
That's valid but so is ensuring an alliance with the Meng. Meizhen and Suzhen are of the anti-isolationist faction, Meizhen specifically believe that it was the Bai's lack of internal and external allies that allowed the Sun rebellion. She'd definitely go for something like this no matter the grumbling. The Meng are the Sun's only land route to the Empire and Bai Suzhen is expanding the Bai's ports and navy, leaving the Sun isolated. The Meng are an extremely good trade opportunity for the Bai and is arguable the one count clan of their new ally the Cai that the Bai would want to deepen ties with. I could see this alliance happening even without us doing a thing and it'll only go better with us as matchmaker.
Meizhen is perfectly capable of finding her own husband, and if not, her clan will.
We should not be setting Meizhen up with random guys just because they fit some theme, or at all.
We're obviously not deciding Meizhen's future partner and I'm not proposing we push for such without even knowing the guys name. Meizhen will do her own searching but you can't find a critical alliance under every cobblestone and while one of the Bai counts would be suitable so would a Meng one and the Meng has an advantage of being relevant to Meizhen's larger goals, her connection to Emerald Seas and meta with the Meng possibly being far more relevant and interesting to the story being written. Like, this is a good idea and something to have in mind as we get to know him.
 
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We're obviously not deciding Meizhen's future partner and I'm not proposing we push for such without even knowing the guys name. Meizhen will do her own searching but you can't find a critical alliance under every cobblestone and while one of the Bai counts would be suitable so would a Meng one and the Meng has an advantage of being relevant to Meizhen's larger goals, her connection to Emerald Seas and meta with the Meng possibly being far more relevant and interesting to the story being written. Like, this is a good idea and something to have in mind as we get to know him.
Until, and unless, the best snek decides to bring up potential marriage (possibly decades into the future), we haveno need to start speculating on it.
I am very uncomfortable trying to set up our lesbian friend up with some dude, no matter how politically useful it might be. Let's not, it is not relevant to the story at this point, and possibly never will.

Also, i strongly disagree with the bolded.
 
How would knowing his name be relevant to this decision?

Either we're willing to put trust in Meng Diu's judgement that he'd be useful or we're not; given we'd be just as clueless about Meng Whoever's capabilities if we were told the name...

Besides, giving us the kid's name is a weapon against the Meng, or at least the kid, should we refuse. No reason to demand they take that risk.

Anyone going on the mission is ticking off the Sect. Anyone who comes with us either needs their own pre-existing support base, or a guarantee of access to CRX's, lest the Sect take petty vengeance that would nevertheless have significant implications to their cultivation.

That narrows the set of options.
The Sect might be annoyed, but direct retaliation for participating in a mission ordered by the duchess over a comparatively minor slight would be foolish of them. If they're vindictive enough to ruin or cripple whoever we take then we've already killed our chances of meeting the rank target Shenhua set for us. Nobles are either too important to retaliate against so blatantly, or they're still well off enough that getting snubbed for promotions won't be crippling. And if the sect lashed out at commoners for going with us that's just shooting themselves in the foot and driving the people most likely to stay with the Sect further toward joining the Cai. I'm not saying they won't be petty, but they won't be able to hurt those we bring in a manner the Cai can't compensate for.

All the logistics are already handled. It's a Cai Shenhua sponsored diplomatic envoy. Any role that needs to be filled is already filled. For instance, we didn't need to make a translation technique because translation is already going to be handled through a specialist or talisman, more likely the latter.

Anyone we add is a matter of politics, or a specific viewpoint/image we want to project, not an issue of practicality or filling out the body of the delegation. Especially anyone our age/cultivation bracket only merits being there because of political connections.

To be frank, this Meng grandson has no real expectation to help make the delegation more successful. He has, like, four jobs. One, don't fuck up. Two, be a bug in the ear of Cai Renxiang and probably Ling Qi. Three, report back what happens on the trip to his grandmother. Four, broadly attempt to get along with or impress Cai Renxiang. Actually contributing to an international diplomatic meeting is way out of his pay grade. Even Ling Qi's role is likely to be pretty heavily curated/limited to breaking the ice.

The point of adding people to the delegation is mostly internal politics, which is the realm of higher nobility. It affects our presentation a little bit too, obviously, but we're not recruiting people for the skills, really.
Okay sure. But that doesn't matter much to us because Xuan Shi is the only high noble we (Ling Qi) might be able to bring. We just don't know many people who are available. I guess I need to say this again: Meng can't be taking a seat from a friend of ours because we have practically no friends to bring. That was my original point. And even if internal politics are the biggest consideration they still aren't the only one. If Alingge is related to the Hill tribes in some way, and I'm not sure she is, she could be worth bringing along. It's not like she's a nobody who's presence will insult everyone, isn't she from a viscount house?

Most of this is up to CRX anyway, she'll handle all the political appointments she thinks we need. I'm not sure why we're talking like Ling Qi is going to be picking out most of the expedition when we're probably only going to be able to suggest 2 or 3 people at best. Which is why I brought up literally the only 2 or 3 available people we know. And it sounds like we agree on bringing the Meng kid so I'm not sure we we're putting so much effort into this discussion.
 
Also, unless i am off in a major way, this is not a retainer position, it is a purely temporary companion for one mission, with a recommendation from a major player in a count house, with the understanding that he is there to report on, and make friends with, CRX/LQ.

Well yes, but actually no.

So I ask you to convince her. Given the chance, I believe that he will prove himself capable in the circle of retainers she is building."

Meng Diu wants us to recommend one of her grandsons to CRX for this mission and nothing more. This might be the only time he works with us for all we know, proving himself capable and maybe worthy of a retainer position and tying himself to CRX is on him.
 
Until, and unless, the best snek decides to bring up potential marriage (possibly decades into the future), we haveno need to start speculating on it.
I am very uncomfortable trying to set up our lesbian friend up with some dude, no matter how politically useful it might be. Let's not, it is not relevant to the story at this point, and possibly never will.

Also, i strongly disagree with the bolded.
Stealing Luo's genius plan and refitting it for the Bai/Meng fued, trying to "fix" it by getting this unknown Meng grandson married to Meizhen/into the Bai would be hilarious, gotta admit. So premature as to just be a joke though, at this point. About a hundred specifics would need to fall into place, and we don't even know his name.

The Sect might be annoyed, but direct retaliation for participating in a mission ordered by the duchess over a comparatively minor slight would be foolish of them. If they're vindictive enough to ruin or cripple whoever we take then we've already killed our chances of meeting the rank target Shenhua set for us. Nobles are either too important to retaliate against so blatantly, or they're still well off enough that getting snubbed for promotions won't be crippling. And if the sect lashed out at commoners for going with us that's just shooting themselves in the foot and driving the people most likely to stay with the Sect further toward joining the Cai. I'm not saying they won't be petty, but they won't be able to hurt those we bring in a manner the Cai can't compensate for.


Okay sure. But that doesn't matter much to us because Xuan Shi is the only high noble we (Ling Qi) might be able to bring. We just don't know many people who are available. I guess I need to say this again: Meng can't be taking a seat from a friend of ours because we have practically no friends to bring. That was my original point. And even if internal politics are the biggest consideration they still aren't the only one. If Alingge is related to the Hill tribes in some way, and I'm not sure she is, she could be worth bringing along. It's not like she's a nobody who's presence will insult everyone, isn't she from a viscount house?

Most of this is up to CRX anyway, she'll handle all the political appointments she thinks we need. I'm not sure why we're talking like Ling Qi is going to be picking out most of the expedition when we're probably only going to be able to suggest 2 or 3 people at best. Which is why I brought up literally the only 2 or 3 available people we know. And it sounds like we agree on bringing the Meng kid so I'm not sure we we're putting so much effort into this discussion.
I don't think people are talking like Ling Qi is going to be picking out most of the expedition? And I agree with you that this Meng guy isn't and can't be "taking a seat" from a friend of ours. But the reason for that is almost none of our friends qualify, and placements would be considered separately from each other in the first place.

Alingge's from a viscount equivalent, their situation's a little unique, but when it comes to potentially international politics that's not impressive. Aside from that, nothing we've seen suggests the ice ladies would be interested in her for being related to the hill tribes, and nothing suggests she would be interested in the ice ladies.

In general, we shouldn't be looking at this as inviting people we know for the sake of having people we know invited. Almost nobody we know personally has anything to offer the expedition, or our political interests. Which isn't indictment of them, it's just how the practicalities unfold at the moment.
 
Well yes, but actually no.



Meng Diu wants us to recommend one of her grandsons to CRX for this mission and nothing more. This might be the only time he works with us for all we know, proving himself capable and maybe worthy of a retainer position and tying himself to CRX is on him.
Well, yes, retainer position is kinda of a goal, but this agreement is not for that.
Here, all we are promising is one mission, if he manages to prove himself, then great, if not, sucks to be him.

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Stealing Luo's genius plan and refitting it for the Bai/Meng fued, trying to "fix" it by getting this unknown Meng grandson married to Meizhen/into the Bai would be hilarious, gotta admit. So premature as to just be a joke though, at this point. About a hundred specifics would need to fall into place, and we don't even know his name.
I don't gotta admit anything. :V
But seriously, let's not try to arrange loveless marriages, no matter how well it fits the setting.
This is not something we have any business to stick our head into.
If anything, we should be trying to find a way for Meizhen to never have to marry someone she does not want to.
We would almost certainly fail, but it would still be better use of our time in my opinion.
 
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Trying to matchmake Meizhen and this unknown Meng isn't even on the table with the choice yrsillar has given us. Meizhen has already said she will probably marry within the Bai clan to reinforce the authority of the main family anyways, which is probably more important than an alliance with a count clan in a neighboring province.
 
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Sect Promotional: Dust of Ages Sect
Introduction:
The past informs the future.

This is the motto of the Dust of Ages Sect. Here, we study the past, in all its glory and shame. There are many lessons to be found in both the successes and failures of our ancestors. The Dust of Ages Sect is thus the preeminent institution for the study of history and the peoples of the Empire. A graduate of the Dust of Ages Sect will not simply learn the Hows of the world as it exists today, but also the whys.

The Sect does not merely teach theory however. The storied Jing art of psychometry has it's masters here, and many other forms of divination are taught in our halls. In addition, the Sect offers a number of practical courses for the aspiring explorer or ruin delver, including but not limited to; Formation Cracking, Environmental Studies, Spirit Negotiation, and Talisman Mastery. This is, naturally in addition to standard martial courses.

The secondary focus of the Sect is naturally, implementing uses for the knowledge acquired from such activities. A comprehensive program covering Formation Engineering, Qi Theory, Shen Encoding, and Talisman Craft is on offer a secondary track.

Graduates of the Dust of Ages Sect may expect to find lucrative careers in the navy of the great Jin, as court historians and diviners, or find important roles in settlement projects. The best and brightest may even find themselves receiving Imperial writs for Undermountain exploration and reclamation, under her Divine Empress Xiang's programs.

History:
The Dust of Ages Sect has its origins in the chaotic days after the Jing quit the empire and sailed forth to unknown horizons upon the great City Ship Chonju. In those violent days, the wise Jin who refused to abandon their duty as our previous lords did, it was necessary to take many harsh measures to retain order. The Dust of Ages Sect was the result of one such action, centralizing all remaining sources of knowledge and academia before any more could be lost to the chaos. The very first commandment given to the scholars of the Sect was simple.

They were to dredge, study and reclaim the mighty treasure fleet of Ji from the seafloor, where it had been sunk during the Unification. With the task of their lords in mind, the scholars of the Sect set about forming the foundations of the methods which the Sect still uses to this day. Within one century, the flagship of Ji himself was brought to the surface and delivered with great ceremony to Jingshan, where it floats to this day.

The many other ships of the fleet were disassembled, studied, and their secrets used to build an even greater fleet, establishing fully the power of the Jin over Alabaster Sands. For their success, the Dust of Ages Sect received a permanent stipend to continue their studies.

Throughout the remainder of the second dynasty, the Dust of Ages Sect continued advancing knowledge of the past in Alabaster Sands. Knowledge that would have been lost with the passing of feuding clans was catalogued, and delivered to the hands of the Jin. Ruins from the draconic period were dredged, and the insights into the foundations of imperial cultivation learned there allowed the Jin to grow mighty indeed, and secure the favor of the throne.

For the Dust of Ages Sect, the installment of the Great Sect system was only a codification of reality as it was. Granted our own land outside of Jingshan, the Dust of Ages Sect turned it's knowledge unto the construction of the Palace of Eons upon the former seat of the ancient Dragon God of the North Sea Current. Never before have goods flowed so swiftly from one port to another!

Today, the Sect continues its storied history as the borders of the wilderness are pushed ever back, and things long thought lost are unearthed, one after another.

Enrollment:
Enrollment in the Dust of Ages Sect is a simple and straightforward process. The Sect is in full compliance with Imperial Decree Sixteen, and opens its doors to all applicants, including the common born of Jingshan and its environs. Students who cannot pay the entrance fees will be provided the funds on loan, to be paid back after the four year outer sect period ends. Loan repayment takes the form of apprentice positions on Sect Expeditions, or service aboard the Navy of Jin.

The Dust of Ages requires no tests for entry, however in order to enter the Inner Sect track, and receive individual tutoring from Sect Elders, students are required to pass a yearly exam, and present a project or thesis considered worthy by the Sect's Elders.

The Sect is not responsible for any damages or casualties incurred among prospective disciples during the initial voyage to the Palace of Eons. However, such issues become rarer by the passing year, Less than one percent of applicants show signs of mental aberration or suicidal ideation after entry since the realignment of the seals fifty years past.

Careers:
Undermountain Scholar:
The recent opening of Celestial Peaks heritage sites by Empress Xiang has been a boon to historians the Empire over. The testing process to receive an imperial writ to study the lands beneath the Celestial Peaks is rigorous and unforgiving, but no other Sect or organization has the success rate of the Dust of Ages Sect in turning out successful applicants.

Court Diviner: In the land of Alabaster Seas, it is a foolish lord indeed who does not keep a diviner on hand. For graduates of the Dust of Ages Sect, receiving such a position is almost guaranteed if sought.

Ship Speaker: A position subordinate only to a ship's captain, the Speaker of a Ship is responsible for communication between the ship and its crew, as well as the nurturing and cultivation of a ship's nascent mind and spirit.

The document goes on to list many positions in crafting and engineering roles

Prominent Sect Members:

Sect Master Ran Delun:
The original architect of the Palace of Eons project, Sect master Ran continues to turn out new studies and projects at a ferocious rate despite his advancing age. A master traveler of the Liminal realms, it is said that Sect master Ran has glimpsed the very furthest corners of the world. Even the silent Duke of Jin allows Sect master Ran regular meetings and appointments, to discuss matters of State.
 
The storied Jing art of psychometry has it's masters here

That would be a really nice skill to get.

Formation Cracking, Environmental Studies, Spirit Negotiation, and Talisman Mastery.

Ling Qi learned formations to be able to crack them, and spirit negotiations seems like where we are heading. But still.
Do want.

Formation Engineering, Qi Theory, Shen Encoding, and Talisman Craft is on offer a secondary track.

Breathing intensifies.
 
AFAIK, Alabaster Sands is the province we know the least about. This is an interesting starting point. The bit about memetic hazards (presumably) being something that people approaching the sect have to deal with is intriguing.
 
Later we can stick him under Gan, lets see if he can get down to business and defeat the shishigui

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Again, all these other sects are fine and all but will we ever see any exchange students?
 
[X] Accept the offer, you can convince Renxiang and sponsorship from even a faction of a count house is a valuable thing.
 
Stealing Luo's genius plan and refitting it for the Bai/Meng fued, trying to "fix" it by getting this unknown Meng grandson married to Meizhen/into the Bai would be hilarious, gotta admit. So premature as to just be a joke though, at this point. About a hundred specifics would need to fall into place, and we don't even know his name.


I don't think people are talking like Ling Qi is going to be picking out most of the expedition? And I agree with you that this Meng guy isn't and can't be "taking a seat" from a friend of ours. But the reason for that is almost none of our friends qualify, and placements would be considered separately from each other in the first place.

Alingge's from a viscount equivalent, their situation's a little unique, but when it comes to potentially international politics that's not impressive. Aside from that, nothing we've seen suggests the ice ladies would be interested in her for being related to the hill tribes, and nothing suggests she would be interested in the ice ladies.

In general, we shouldn't be looking at this as inviting people we know for the sake of having people we know invited. Almost nobody we know personally has anything to offer the expedition, or our political interests. Which isn't indictment of them, it's just how the practicalities unfold at the moment.
We know precisely 2 things about the ice lady's people. They are ice themed and they speak a language that seems related to old Hill tribe dialects. Setting aside our invitation talisman, she's got about as much to offer the expedition as we do, as far as we know.
 
The Sect is not responsible for any damages or casualties incurred among prospective disciples during the initial voyage to the Palace of Eons. However, such issues become rarer by the passing year, Less than one percent of applicants show signs of mental aberration or suicidal ideation after entry since the realignment of the seals fifty years past.

I love how casually, and with no explanation, this was dropped. Seems like eldrich artifacts that drive people insane are just a matter of paperwork disclaimers in this world.
 
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