Yeah, but the more connections there are the better insulated we are and if we do nothing is going to take 14 turns.
The Lords of Ruin -- Battletech/Killzone
- Thread starter prometheus110
- Start date
- Crossover
- Location
- Africa
think of him as FedSuns Tywin Lananister with all that implies but remove the infinite money buff in exchange for removing the cartoonish stupid heirs debuff and you have Michael Hasek-Davion
its always great to get some free tech
This only need one more turn before its done, what are we gonna do after it?
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
michael i know your not the best at these games but come on.
No progress???
Kanata.EXE
Programmer
- Location
- Indonesia
If we do fight FS, let's bring out our MAWLRs.
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- Location
- The internet
Nobody is actually in charge of the outback, which is frankly half of the problem. What is currently known as the "outback" consists of roughly* 130 worlds of the 550ish world Federated Suns parceled out among all three of the FedSuns marches. This means that despite the sheer size of the Outback, they're split up and unable to throw their limited weight around in the Fedsuns. Which keeps them poor, because nobody who is anybody on a national level has to care about them. Of those 130ish worlds, roughly 80 are from the old Outer March that was axed after a civil war a long time ago, 28ish Taurian worlds that were annexed and forever after ignored a couple of decades after the disbandment of the Outer March, and some worlds annexed from a minor power called the UHC and the OWA in the same timeframe.
Now, not all 130 worlds are protesting, its mostly the 28 ex taurian worlds, which are mostly but not entirely under the control of MHD, who is as mentioned a massive prick playing with gasoline.
*This is a region like "The South" or "the midwest" what actually counts is fuzzy.
Omega-Chris
The Friendly Ghost
So while i was browsing the internet i came across a interesting fan concept i thought had potential with our tech.
That being jaromcswenson idea about a JumpMech: https://www.deviantart.com/jaromcswenson/art/JumpMechs-battletech-fan-idea-928864359
In short it is essentially the airmech mode of a LAM (Land Air Mech) that would function on modified table top LAM rules.
For those that are interested here are some of the rule modification i came up with:
It would have they ability to hover like the airmech mode of a LAM allowing for superb maneuverability and speed. Though they would be a little bit more fragile.
If you want a visual aid in how it could look it would be similar to the movements of these DOM troopers from gundam:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhsUv8VZFlo
The hovering in our case would be achieved with anti gravity technology however it would lose its ability to truly fly. Thus a alternate name for this type of mech could be a hover mech.
Normally a LAM has some major downsides because of its transformation feature that would stop it from using certain technologies like ferro-fibrous armor and endo-steel. But do to us only using the airmech mode the hover mech would lose this downside allowing for the use of the mentioned technologies. Another benefit of losing the transformation feature would be the tonnage limit which for a regular LAM woud be 55 tons. There would still be a tonnage limit but that limited could be increased by researching better anti-gravity technology. I would say the tonnage limit would be 65 tons.
The hover/jump mech design would serve as amazing scout mechs, ambushers and supply line disruptors thanks to there speed in hover mode. These roles haven't been really been filled in our army so they would fit right in.
I have already made a prototype design for a 45 ton Scout hover mech. That being the Aethon AET-01S:
I used this picture below and our own Serpent SRP-1HR as inspiration for the looks. imagine it as a combination of the two.
Before posting this idea here i also posted this idea to the discord server and asked Prometheus110 if it was possible. He said he would allow it if there was enough interested in the idea but we would have to research improved anti-gravity drive to unlock them.
So what do you guys think? Does this idea have potential? Are there more rule modification necessary? Or is this just a idea that needs to be thrown in a bin?
That being jaromcswenson idea about a JumpMech: https://www.deviantart.com/jaromcswenson/art/JumpMechs-battletech-fan-idea-928864359
In short it is essentially the airmech mode of a LAM (Land Air Mech) that would function on modified table top LAM rules.
For those that are interested here are some of the rule modification i came up with:
First we can trow away all rules pertaining the LAM conversion or the fighter mode as were not using those features.
So some of the down sides of the regular LAM disappear like needing internal bomb bays as that was a limitation imposed for the transformation. So we can equip bombs on our hover/jump mechs if we want.
For the movement if the mech is walking like a normal mech we use regular mech movement rules. For what i am going to call hover mode we should use the LAM AirMech movement rules though without the elevation parts. As our intention is not to have our hover/jump mech be able to really fly only hover a few meters of the ground at most. Another suggestion is that while in hover mode you can move your mech without having to turn your mech in the direction your moving allowing for unique manoeuvres.
And for the rule of cool i say a hover/jump mech can fire while moving but you would have to add a +1 or +2 to the hit roll as your firing while moving.
So some of the down sides of the regular LAM disappear like needing internal bomb bays as that was a limitation imposed for the transformation. So we can equip bombs on our hover/jump mechs if we want.
For the movement if the mech is walking like a normal mech we use regular mech movement rules. For what i am going to call hover mode we should use the LAM AirMech movement rules though without the elevation parts. As our intention is not to have our hover/jump mech be able to really fly only hover a few meters of the ground at most. Another suggestion is that while in hover mode you can move your mech without having to turn your mech in the direction your moving allowing for unique manoeuvres.
And for the rule of cool i say a hover/jump mech can fire while moving but you would have to add a +1 or +2 to the hit roll as your firing while moving.
If you want a visual aid in how it could look it would be similar to the movements of these DOM troopers from gundam:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhsUv8VZFlo
The hovering in our case would be achieved with anti gravity technology however it would lose its ability to truly fly. Thus a alternate name for this type of mech could be a hover mech.
Normally a LAM has some major downsides because of its transformation feature that would stop it from using certain technologies like ferro-fibrous armor and endo-steel. But do to us only using the airmech mode the hover mech would lose this downside allowing for the use of the mentioned technologies. Another benefit of losing the transformation feature would be the tonnage limit which for a regular LAM woud be 55 tons. There would still be a tonnage limit but that limited could be increased by researching better anti-gravity technology. I would say the tonnage limit would be 65 tons.
The hover/jump mech design would serve as amazing scout mechs, ambushers and supply line disruptors thanks to there speed in hover mode. These roles haven't been really been filled in our army so they would fit right in.
I have already made a prototype design for a 45 ton Scout hover mech. That being the Aethon AET-01S:
Code:
Aethon scout AET-01S
Mass: 45 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/E-F-E-D
Production Year: 0
Dry Cost: 8.111.590 C-Bills
Total Cost: 8.129.590 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1.208
Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Improved Petrusite Reactor
Walking Speed: 64,8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97,2 km/h
Hover Mode Cruising Speed: 97,2 km/h
Hover Mode Flanking Speed: 151,2 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous w/ CASE
Armament:
1 Helghast Ultra AC/5
3 Helghast Medium Lasers
1 Guardian ECM Suite
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 75 points 4,50
Engine: Improved Petrusite reactor 270 7,50
Walking MP: 7
Running MP: 10
Jumping MP: 4 Standard
Hover Mode Cruising MP: 9
Hover Mode Flanking MP: 14
Jump Jet Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL 2,00
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0,00
Gyro: Standard 3,00
Cockpit: Standard 3,00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous AV - 153 9,00
Armor Locations: 1 HD, 2 CT, 3 LT, 3 RT, 2 LA, 1 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
CASE Locations: 1 RT 0,50
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 14 21
Center Torso (rear) 7
L/R Torso 11 17
L/R Torso (rear) 5
L/R Arm 7 14
L/R Leg 11 22
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
H-Medium Laser LT 3 1 1,00
Guardian ECM Suite LT 0 2 1,50
H-Ultra AC/5 RA 1 5 9,00
2 Medium Lasers LA 6 2 2,00
@Ultra AC/5 (40) RT - 2 2,00
Free Critical Slots: 10
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 5 Points: 12
6/3j 3 3 1 0 2 0 Structure: 2
Special Abilities: ECM, CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
Before posting this idea here i also posted this idea to the discord server and asked Prometheus110 if it was possible. He said he would allow it if there was enough interested in the idea but we would have to research improved anti-gravity drive to unlock them.
So what do you guys think? Does this idea have potential? Are there more rule modification necessary? Or is this just a idea that needs to be thrown in a bin?
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OpSihg_Stabr
Crazy (Evil) Genius
So @prometheus110 what is the Company that operates out of the new Detroit Factory, because Battletech regularly sites that 'X Factory is owned and operated by Y Corporation making Z battlemech / vehicle'?
Or is that a big multi-purpose factory run by multiple entities because of Helghan Socialism?
F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
Well I'm definitely interested since it would have the main advantage of LAMs, the increased manoeuvrability, with less downsides since it's not a transformer plus it should synergise well with ag tech.
Pretty certain that the concept was brought up at some point before in thread.
Omega-Chris
The Friendly Ghost
Then spread the word the more interessed is shown the more likely Prometheus is to allow us to make them.
- Location
- The internet
Honestly they seem uninteresting to me.
Aztez Fan
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- California
I get the feeling that someone is going to get assassinated, and it's going to lead to a progressively insane series of clusterfukes until somehow a Tuaran battalion is firing on fedsun troops over the border to catch a terrorist in asylum.
This, could easily make an ASF with hover abilities if we absolutely needed a hovering scout that badly but it frankly seems like a hovering target to me. Also gundam was used as a visual so I'm doubly biased against such a boondoggle.
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Aztez Fan
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- California
Yeah it's good to keep in mind that most of our technology probably is closer to price to the basic Clan stuff. So whatever this thing is it's probably going to be more economically affordable to just design a gunship that has far more utility and usability than whatever the hell this thing is going to be.
For an idea of how expensive some stuff can be with our tech level. Even a 50 toner can become a nightmare at 20 million c-bills. And in lore the production for some of this stuff is similarly a nightmare so even with Advanced automation I'm not exactly sure we're going to be able to have all that many lying around.
plotvitalnpc
Once more walking the path of the catgirl.
The fact that the outback is split up between the other marches has another consequence: it's not just that they lack a collective bargaining voice, it's also that because they share a nation with New Syrtis, New Avalon, Galax and the like, where investment priority usually goes to already developed worlds to bolster the war effort, March-level taxes from the few developed worlds in the outback like Broken Wheel and Filtvelt (as well as the undeveloped ones) are spent on other, more developed regions rather than being plowed back into the outback. Not only are they denied federal development aid or meaningful redistributive welfare, those worlds are actively drained of resources that then get used to fund schools outside of the region entirely - in a time where NAIS was getting built, broken down jumpships with no economic value were, in canon, sent to the outback to operate as boarding schools for a tiny number of children as a hilariously impotent patch job and corporations were getting sold planets and their emergency services sectors for promising to invest even a little bit in their QOL (which they did to the absolute minimum degree), because their taxes pay for bureaucratic salaries in the former Terran Hegemony.
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Aztez Fan
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- California
Something interesting to note tho, though some worlds do eventually get the A-A-A-A-A ranging by the clan invasion. So out position as one of the only worlds with over a billion pop and industry development is going to go away in around 6-7 years.
Most positively because nations funnel the majority of their funding back into capital worlds. For reference, the Combine to my understanding will manage 2 worlds with the max rating that isn't "Advanced" status soon.
Our advantage will soon perish, once the Great houses industry recovers. So best get those warships up and running to ensure they focus on each other rather then us.
Most positively because nations funnel the majority of their funding back into capital worlds. For reference, the Combine to my understanding will manage 2 worlds with the max rating that isn't "Advanced" status soon.
Our advantage will soon perish, once the Great houses industry recovers. So best get those warships up and running to ensure they focus on each other rather then us.
They would still be at a disadvantage because a feudal system of governance is incredibly wastefull at every category when compared to modern democracies. Like the percentage of population that a feudal monarchy could conscript, on average, didn't even reach the 1% and most of their wealth is not taxable (thus doesn't contribute to the state) because it was in the hands of the nobility (and they didn't pay taxes).
Aztez Fan
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- California
Not quite, it's Neo-Feudle for a reason, because if nothing else even the nobility has to pay taxes, just normally that requires then levying high taxes on the population. So really it's not fully feudal because of the governmental structures around them. If only in this weird Victorian style sense.
Rather then straight up dark ages, this isn't the third succession war era anymore, we've moved past that and if not for the jehad or clan invasion things would be far different as larger armies and navies became the norm.
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Nah, it really depends, while absolutist monarchies (victorian feudalism) could muster huge armies it also provoked a lot of unrest, after all, the people are not willing to suffer for imperialist ambitions indefinitely (specially when they are not going to see any benefits), it would be more likely that the IS would have evolved into an state where they are not willing to fight protacted wars but they would still have huge battles every few months with barely profesional armies.
Aztez Fan
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- California
Less barely professional, and more by the third succession wars the ability to field large armies without sacrificing security was shot in the legs. Leading to the 160 year's of wars and raiding.
Now however, well we just had two wars in the past 2 decades not including us that involved true professional armies trading and fighting on dozens of worlds. And said armies will only get larger as the ability to equips and transport them increases as well.
Hence why our advantage will fade as those worlds reach comparable industrialization as economy of scale and reforms will still have them out pace us to a pint I doubt the GM could keep track of them as simply regiments any more.
I expect by 3050 if the clans don't invade we'll start seeing the first true House army formation that are dedicated fully to being able to be deployed anywhere.
It's simply unavoidable because if the Houses could do so in the past, they can do so again.
OpSihg_Stabr
Crazy (Evil) Genius
If we are talking about cost-effective hover/flying Scouts (or any other unit) I have a few ideas:
- Since we have Anti-Grav vehicles, how about we make such with our own version of a 'Vehicular Jump Jet'. In-character are (advancing) robotics/A.I. Tech would allow us to relatively easily develop such.
- We make a VTOL and then give it a Jet Booster. When I was thinking of my own project(s) I think a VTOL can be construed as a Hover Car if it fly Nap-of-the-earth as the Norm. Be sure to remember the 'VTOL Rotor Arrangement' Design Quirk for this.
- Since we have the old SL-06 Personal Jet Propulsion thingy, I believe we can easily modernize that as a Power Armor, using at least a Partial Wing system, and maybe a Jump Booster if there is enough room (or we get to work on proper Battle Armor).
- We modernize (and make bigger?) our A.T.A.C. (Agile Tactical Air Component), especially if we add my aforementioned VTOL w/ Jet Booster specifications. We can make a Scout Variant that uses our recently acquired Electronic Warfare Equipment (for the Active Probe) with the 'Improved Sensors' quirk.
- If/when we make our version of the 'Hivelord' Mobile Scan Tank, we make it with our potential Anti-Grav Jump Jet vehicle tech(s).
- A Smart Drone with a integrated E-Warfare Equipment unit, it gives it better sensors (Active Probe) and protective ECCM ability (keeps operator signal undisrupted). Would be a nice support unit to be scurring about causing sensor/computer mayhem on the battlefield.
- Perhaps not directly relevant to the Hivelord Drone, but having a vehicle with both a E-Warfare Equipment unit and a Communications Equipment unit would be very useful for ELINT and controlling a number a drones (as well as a satellite uplink).
Aztez Fan
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- California
Sadly the issue is that once you stuff all that drone tech inside and robotics stuff...the thing barely has room for armor, weapons, or sheilds. To the point you'd need to vastly increase it in size, or sacrifice all armor in favor of a shield system on something viable to explode even with a pet engine. Pretty much anything under 50 tons is nonviable and at that point your better off with something far less expensive, at least it can be fast? even if not cheap or easy to make or maintaine?
The combine and many other states already have gotten drone tech of this scale down for centuries even with the tech decay, so really were not adding much to the table other than simply copying a similar design with perhaps more processing power. Which itself in a year or two is going to be an advantage we'll lose.
Edit: On a differnt note, anyone think Interconnectedness Unlimited might be lobbying for money from the Fedsun government to do KF recource as well as push their super jumpdrives? Whichs means the Fedsuns are perhaps the only nation in the inner sphere with a ship that could move faster then ours currently shoudl they get a good event roll?
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