The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
Not so, I believe.

If I recall correctly, mankind's evolution into a psychic race has increaesed both the number and the highest sane level. This was once beta, but is now alpha.

Is that not so, @durin?

In any event, we need to research two STCs as fast as we can:

The Ancient Defence Cruiser is something that the Nine Worlds really needs right now. We are degrading navally right now, due to losing ships faster than we rebuild them. The direct and indirect benefits of the ancient defence cruisers will go a long way towards allaying that, as it will allow us to build better ships, as well as to build cheapish defence ships that can challenge battleships 3:1 or so.

The other thing we need is Vanquisher cannons. We have just done mega vanquishers, so vanquishers should be unlocked now, and the sooner we do that, the more vanquishers we will have on everything by the time the orks come back armed to the tits with gargants.

We should probably prioritise both of these over pretty much anything not urgent, because we want them to have as much impact as they can before the orks arrive. I don't think there is anything in tranth's section that will not take multiple years to uncover that will have a bigger impact than those two.

We might also wish to consider setting Saren on doing the next level of congregation asps, if we have not yet unlocked the psychic research, as their hivemind/psychic choir ability, if we can get it, will be a major boon, given how many psykers we have.
The defense cruiser is not said to be the equal of the Well, that being said Durin presumably the makers of the Well and the designers of the ancient defense cruisers are one and the same, could completing the defense cruiser give us insight into how the systems of the well are put together and gain a bonus to understanding repairing and reverse engineering them even if it is scaled down.
On all other points I agree with the exception of the first. While I do believe that an Alpha would not necessarily be insane evolution does not work that fast and mankinds evolution has mostly been through the warp rapidly mutation us. That being said I do believe that the insanly harsh conditions of Avernus combined with its warp touched nature and the rapid birth rate and death rate, would steadily bring about a superior human i.e. better immune system and reflexes and more importantly a degree of natural resistance to warp based energies. Before you ask yes I did read that omake where the physical characteristics of an avernite is shown, that is what I am talking about.
 
The Ancient Defence Cruiser is something that the Nine Worlds really needs right now. We are degrading navally right now, due to losing ships faster than we rebuild them. The direct and indirect benefits of the ancient defence cruisers will go a long way towards allaying that, as it will allow us to build better ships, as well as to build cheapish defence ships that can challenge battleships 3:1 or so.
While I do agree that the Ancient Defense Cruiser should be a priority, I do want to note that, while it is better than modern warships, its not explicitly stated that its faster or cheaper to manufacture. If anything, generally, better stuff takes longer to make. If we want to maximize the impact of this STC, we should also look into the manufacturing sections of Urd, AND spend some actions researching the stuff inside (and not just look), so that we can boost our shipbuilding capabilities.

If we want to further shore up our Void capabilities, we should be aggressively pursuing options such as Armour, Repair Robot STC, and perhaps one weapons system (im inclined to go for lasers ATM). Maybe even engines, to shore up evasive capability.

With all the research that we really should be catching up on, Im fairly disinclined to take Mechanicus options that expand our production capability, especially since we have finished the super long 7 year project that has massively helped our AM/EM bottlenecks.

Edit: let us be clear, Avernus is currently THE leading R&D world, we cant rely on others to make the advancements, esp when they dont have examples of DAoT stuff to study.
 
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While I do agree that the Ancient Defense Cruiser should be a priority, I do want to note that, while it is better than modern warships, its not explicitly stated that its faster or cheaper to manufacture. If anything, generally, better stuff takes longer to make. If we want to maximize the impact of this STC, we should also look into the manufacturing sections of Urd, AND spend some actions researching the stuff inside (and not just look), so that we can boost our shipbuilding capabilities.

If we want to further shore up our Void capabilities, we should be aggressively pursuing options such as Armour, Repair Robot STC, and perhaps one weapons system (im inclined to go for lasers ATM). Maybe even engines, to shore up evasive capability.

With all the research that we really should be catching up on, Im fairly disinclined to take Mechanicus options that expand our production capability, especially since we have finished the super long 7 year project that has massively helped our AM/EM bottlenecks.

Edit: let us be clear, Avernus is currently THE leading R&D world, we cant rely on others to make the advancements, esp when they dont have examples of DAoT stuff to study.

Except we have to take a construction action since we have one tech research action (Magus Explorator), one wildlife research (Magus Biologus) and one infrastructure action (Fabricator General). We can't substitute one for the other.
 
Except we have to take a construction action since we have one tech research action (Magus Explorator), one wildlife research (Magus Biologus) and one infrastructure action (Fabricator General). We can't substitute one for the other.
We must choose a Biologis action, thats true. But infrastructure action states "May choose one of the following", while Biologis states "Must choose one of the following". So my read is that we can skimp on an infrastructure action to get one more research action.

Edit: Of course that might just be because we are already doing an infrastructure action, cant remember off the top of my head, if im wrong, im wrong.
 
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you must have one from each category, the reason that it says may choose one of the following is that you had a general actions locked in
you can at most have two actions in a single category at a time
 
Except we have to take a construction action since we have one tech research action (Magus Explorator), one wildlife research (Magus Biologus) and one infrastructure action (Fabricator General). We can't substitute one for the other.
In that case best ask for verification:

@durin can we take to tech research actions in one turn?
We have 4 menchanicus action slots, one exploration/tech, one biologis, one construction and one general. The general action slot can be used for anything, and we have frequently used it for tech in the past.
 
Damn, lets hope Britton can start on reforming the Mechanicus next turn then. Its either that or begin manufacturing the weaponized fungus missile.
 
While I do agree that the Ancient Defense Cruiser should be a priority, I do want to note that, while it is better than modern warships, its not explicitly stated that its faster or cheaper to manufacture. If anything, generally, better stuff takes longer to make. If we want to maximize the impact of this STC, we should also look into the manufacturing sections of Urd, AND spend some actions researching the stuff inside (and not just look), so that we can boost our shipbuilding capabilities.
Oh, right, it may have been unclear to someone less familiar with gothic: Defence monitors, which lack the bulky and expensive Geller fields and warp drives that normal vessels have, are cheaper to produce than a normal vessel of their type, and punch well above their weight. These two factors combined make defence anythings immensely cheaper than anything with their level of firepower.

They aren't any faster or cheaper to manufacture than what we currently have for that role, but only because we don't currently have anything filling that role. They may or may not be cheaper than normal cruisers of their size, and I suspect they may be, but they are almost guaranteed to be cheaper than anything else with their level of firepower.

Also, the manufacturing sections of the Well of urd will take quite a few years to get access to and implement, and in any event are unlikely to be geared towards shipbuilding, given that it is an exploratory vessel, not a shipyards. Some ship parts, yes, but not actual ships, so it is by no means a sure thing that they would be of any help there.

The production systems of the well of urd will prove important for other production, though.
 
Oh, right, it may have been unclear to someone less familiar with gothic: Defence monitors, which lack the bulky and expensive Geller fields and warp drives that normal vessels have, are cheaper to produce than a normal vessel of their type, and punch well above their weight. These two factors combined make defence anythings immensely cheaper than anything with their level of firepower.
Ahhhhhh, the Ancient Defence Cruiser has just shot up my priority list.
 
Damn, lets hope Britton can start on reforming the Mechanicus next turn then. Its either that or begin manufacturing the weaponized fungus missile.

A lot of the reform stuff seems to be going on in the background. Our actions are more about what's going on for Avernus - the AdMech reform is for the entire Nine Worlds.

Oh, right, it may have been unclear to someone less familiar with gothic: Defence monitors, which lack the bulky and expensive Geller fields and warp drives that normal vessels have, are cheaper to produce than a normal vessel of their type, and punch well above their weight. These two factors combined make defence anythings immensely cheaper than anything with their level of firepower.

They aren't any faster or cheaper to manufacture than what we currently have for that role, but only because we don't currently have anything filling that role. They may or may not be cheaper than normal cruisers of their size, and I suspect they may be, but they are almost guaranteed to be cheaper than anything else with their level of firepower.

The description in the AdMech section says they will be more expensive to produce:

On Finding: The second of the partial STCs was a 48% complete STC for a non-Warp-capable Cruiser. From what Tranth can see, it is superior in all ways to an Imperial Cruiser of similar size, but will cost more to build. He will be able to tell you more about it when the design is more complete.

Basically what I expect is that the Ancient Defense Cruiser is packed full of weapons to the degree that a Defense Monitor is, just that the weapons available are better. Durin considers a Defense Monitor to be equivelant to a Light Cruiser in terms of firepower - basically that it's got the firepower of a vessel three times its size, since a Defense Monitor is escort sized. I don't think that the Defense Cruiser will make quite that much of a leap, but it'd still be quite worthwhile.

My low estimate for the firepower of a Defense Cruiser will be that it'll be at the level of a Battlecruiser, and at the higher end estimate a Grand Cruiser.
 
From the interlude, it seems that the Abomination feeds off mindless blind obedience / faith / tradition, people doing what they do, without ever really having their own reason for doing what they do.

You see countless slaves mindlessly working to please their masters.
You see the faithful gathered in prayer listening with utter faith to their Bishop.
You see highly disciplined black clad soldiers, obeying their officers without question.
You see Tech-Priests working in their forges, each action dictated by the force of millennium of tradition.
You see fanatics fighting for their god, their general, their species, the Greater Good and countless other causes.
You see commoners working in the factories of a great Hive, as their fathers did and their fathers fathers before them.
And in each of their eyes you see the Abomination staring back at you.
 
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Reread the interlude; It mentions the greater good within it; are the Tau or the Gue'va being corrupted somehow by the Star Father?

Possible, though the Tau's souls have a very small imprint in the Warp so they don't tend to get corrupted. That said, their unquestioning obedience to the "Greater Good" of the Ethereals would still produce the necessary emotions to feed the Star Father.

The Gue'vasa do have a chance of being corrupted though.
 
O sorry misremembered thank you for correcting me, though my point still stands what are these things made of. I know the Old Ones tech is beyond even the Necrons and Eldar, but seriously, the only things I can think of that perma kill a demon in this universe are weapons designed too kill one specific demon, chanting its true name at it then killing it or being a strong pure psyker with a lot of luck, or any combination of the above, and none of those are guarantees.
Also why would the Old Ones leave everything on Avernus, cause they all seem really dangerous to necrons already so why did they not propagate them, were they too successful?
Unless things have gotten retconed again Necron tech should still be superior to Old One tech, at least when it comes to understanding, manipulating and using the Materium. The Old Ones compensated by having a level of mastery over the Warp that was probably impossible for anyone else to ever achieve post-War in Heaven(save for maybe the Eldar who expanded and perfected the Webway and created the Reality Engine). The Old Ones were wining the War in Heaven before C'tan stepped in by having both FTL(which the Necrontyr apparently lacked at that time despite having wormhole technology) and being able to hit the Necrontyr with bullshit magical bullshit that the Necrontyr had no way to counter before the C'tan.
 
Unless things have gotten retconed again Necron tech should still be superior to Old One tech, at least when it comes to understanding, manipulating and using the Materium. The Old Ones compensated by having a level of mastery over the Warp that was probably impossible for anyone else to ever achieve post-War in Heaven(save for maybe the Eldar who expanded and perfected the Webway and created the Reality Engine). The Old Ones were wining the War in Heaven before C'tan stepped in by having both FTL(which the Necrontyr apparently lacked at that time despite having wormhole technology) and being able to hit the Necrontyr with bullshit magical bullshit that the Necrontyr had no way to counter before the C'tan.
You know kinda makes me wonder WTF the physics of this universe are where things like that are possible with out it turning on itself and imploding and before you say we simply don't understand the universe well enough, the Necrons do so it is obviously there.
 
On Finding: The second of the partial STCs was a 48% complete STC for a non-Warp-capable Cruiser. From what Tranth can see, it is superior in all ways to an Imperial Cruiser of similar size, but will cost more to build. He will be able to tell you more about it when the design is more complete.

Basically what I expect is that the Ancient Defense Cruiser is packed full of weapons to the degree that a Defense Monitor is, just that the weapons available are better. Durin considers a Defense Monitor to be equivelant to a Light Cruiser in terms of firepower - basically that it's got the firepower of a vessel three times its size, since a Defense Monitor is escort sized. I don't think that the Defense Cruiser will make quite that much of a leap, but it'd still be quite worthwhile.

My low estimate for the firepower of a Defense Cruiser will be that it'll be at the level of a Battlecruiser, and at the higher end estimate a Grand Cruiser.

Another thing - if this description is true then ADC lacks defense monitor's glaring weakness - its very low speed. If ADC is "superior in all ways to an Imperial Cruiser" then it is faster then normal cruiser and, therefore, much faster than normal defense monitor, which means that it can participate in fleet maneuvers in realspace without slowing the fleet (unlike DMs).
 
No, that's only our military casualties due to directly combating the ecosystem.
Everything else can only be vaguely inferred from population growth; we probably lose many millions of citizens per year from drops there where we would have had higher growth had we been on a safer planet, but they go without a notice except in cases where there's been a massive increase in the numbers of deaths due to a specific kind of threat.

For example,

The variety of reasons probably includes a number of biosphere threats, that aren't notable enough by themselves to make it to our "Regional Information" page.

What would the population growth have been without this? ~3%? ~5%? We aren't told.

I was comparing military deaths to military deaths. I didn't see anywhere where Durin gave the civilian deaths that occurred due to the Orc invasion, so I didn't include them in my comparison. I get the point you are making here, but it doesn't actually address the point I was making.

Also, I think your comparison is a poor one.

Avernites may treat an ordinary day of civilian deaths like they do war casualties, psychologically, but I doubt they do. Human psychology tends to get used to what is "normal". So while off-worlders are likely to see life on Avernus as a war, I think Avernites would see a difference between an ordinary day and special occurrences like being invaded. Also, most deaths to wildlife seem to happen due to people getting surprised while they are about their ordinary business. Across the whole population (civilian and military) deaths in the field when facing the wildlife as an organized unit seem to form a relatively small portion of the total deaths. By comparison, the fight against the Orcs saw large numbers of people dying while armed, organized and ready for a fight. I think this would be strange and thus a shock to a system.

There is also the issue of intent - the Orcs clearly had intent to come fight and kill people. Intelligent beings that want to kill people flip particular switches in peoples' brains (for most of history, the most dangerous thing to a human besides disease has been another human who wants to kill it - this has had its evolutionary effect on us). Assigning human intent to Tyrant Lizards or Congregation Asps is harder, so I doubt people respond in the same way.

To make a comparison with real world events here: more people died of car crashes in the dominant superpower on Terra in 2001AD than died to all terrorist attacks that occurred in the same country that year, yet that year also saw a single highly unusual terrorist attack which had deep psychological impacts simply because the event was so unusual. Also, just like with the Orcs, the terrorists in question clearly had intent (and like the Orcs with Avernus, terrorists could try again). It is harder to assign intent to cars and drivers of cars in accidents.

tl;dr - psychology is weird and numbers alone can never tell the whole story.

your population growth would be between 10 and 15 percent per year if you had your medical tech and birthrate on a normal world
over half of the deaths are of children under the age of 10

I've been assuming that all the medical infrastructure we had was not so much raising the base growth rate but rather to lowering the fatality rate. Meaning that growth rates were only a little lower than they would be if Avernus weren't a deathworld, since if Avernus weren't a deathworld, the technology to completely reconstruct people from only a few mangled pieces would need to be applied less.

If the growth rate could go as high as 10 to 15% with the deathworld pressures removed it would imply that we are feeding young Avernites chemicals to make them mature faster - like from newborn to sexually mature adult in 5 to 7 years. Or alternatively, that we are growing people in vats. It would also imply that we had brain-tape technology to simply program bodies with all the basic skills. (Education is actually the biggest bottleneck to human population growth - it is much easier to grow a child in a womb than it is to spend the 10 to 20 years educating it afterwards.)

Sustained growth rates as high as 10-15% with the same methods and biology of modern humans just isn't possible.

Or were you talking about unsustained growth rates, i.e. a peak at 10-15% for a year or two before normal human limits brought the boom under control?

You see the beautiful and deadly world that that you call home and feel that it can see you. You see a flicker of moment as something that both does and does not exist changes position.

Fan theory no 234: Avernus is an embryonic warp god and Ridcully just saw the fetus.

You look deeper and see the boundary between reality and unreality, thin and full of cracks but kept intact by some unknown means. You see one of those cracks and step though.

The world you step into seems little different, the same beautiful world of natural dangers where weird and deadly predators prey on equally deadly prey but here you can feel the infinite power of the Warp flowing though the world and feel it changing under your feet. This is the reflection on Avernus in the Warp and if anything it is more dangerous then even the most lethal locations on Avernus.

It is eerie how similar this is to some of the things I've written in unfinished omakes for this quest.

Of course, it does mean I am biased, but I do think this is one of the coolest parts of the update.

the Greater Good and countless other causes.

Hm. I get the feeling that the Tau have a Chaos god that can actually cause serious, civilization destroying, levels of corruption now.

fasquardon
 
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Spying on Gods


Revolted you continue on, moving past legions of Angyls forming up for war in utter silence, hidden only by the Light of the Emperor, the control necessary to not let any of your power escape and by the Jewels of Black Crystal that you wear.


You rush past the searching Angyls, coming ever closer to finding you until you reach the walls, now risen up to infinity and stronger than can be imagined. You cut the walls with a Black Sword, that seems to be both part of this place and too real for it.
The walls part before you, pulling back from the ichor stained blade as if scared.

You return to yourselves and find that a month has passed. You notice that the Black Crystal Sword that was sheathed on Xavier's waist in now in his hand and covered in fading golden ichor.

Hora? Hora!
 
So does the BCJ have a consciousness? The colored text leads me to believe either that, or it is a medium for Avernus itself.
 
I have updated character sheets to show Saint Lin's new trait
I have walked in the Halls of the Abomination and remain pure (+3P, immune to all forms of Corruption, -5% Chaos Cult growth, +20 to all rolls against Abomination Cultists, +50 to all rolls against Angyls)- Saint Lin was part of a ritual where he and two other cast their minds and souls into the Halls of the Abomination within the Realms of Chaos in an effort to discover more about it. It was due to his presence that the others did not fall to the demands of the Abomination as Saint Lin did not falter for a moment. This ritual has both tested Saint Lin's faith in the most absolute way and taught him much about the Abomination that he can use against its minions.
 
I have updated character sheets to show Saint Lin's new trait
Hmm. Durin, can I make a request? Split between Angyl and Chaos cults. They shouldn't have anything vaguely like the same signs, and I'd like to know roughly how our Angyl cultists and normal ones compare, numbers-wise.
 
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