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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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Nurgle said:
Battle congregations or Mrymidans are consider supersoldier's. Highly trained advance cyborgs and tech priests with special equipment. Now they may not all be the melee murder machines that the thunder warriors are but they do have a lot of firepower. Enough to keep the largest Necron dynasty we know about at bay.
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There are various grades of supersoldiers. TWs don't need to have extensive tech skills. If you are correct why would we want them? We have plenty supersoldiers too, far more for our size than any polity known to us really, except for the Eldar.

Why would their SM numbers be so depleted by attrition when SMs are extremely cheap for their power? If they had other options, they would keep their SM back to breed like rabbits instead.
 
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Nurgle said:
Battle congregations or Mrymidans are consider supersoldier's. Highly trained advance cyborgs and tech priests with special equipment. Now they may not all be the melee murder machines that the thunder warriors are but they do have a lot of firepower. Enough to keep the largest Necron dynasty we know about at bay.
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which means they are a differently specialized form of super soldier. any reason you can give for why we would want to use them would apply to Callimus. With the added reason of "slam resources in, and get a bunch of super soldiers out a year later" fits their model of war. Thy are resource expensive but time cheap, ideal for a panic button.
 
Enerael said:
I think that we designed a cruiser with an overcharged reactor and Ragnarok Cannon, but my memory of such things is not the best, its on the list, and I don't know where to check, so...

Also wanted to point out the list to people, I discovered it recently and it is very useful.
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Based on the Warship lists...

Gjallarhorn Class Battlecruiser (the one we designed)
Champion Class Battleship
Hun Class Fast Battleship
Prophet Class Hyper Carrier
Legend Class Dreadnought

So the Ragnarok Cannon is already implemented on the ships it needs to be on.
 
Enerael said:
There are various grades of supersoldiers. TWs don't need extensive tech knowledge. If you are correct why would we want them? We have plenty supersoldiers too, far more for our size than any polity known to us really, except for the Eldar.

Why would their SM numbers be so depleted by attrition when SMs are extremely cheap for their power? If they had other options, they would keep their SM back to breed like rabbits instead.
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Ok I am talking about Callimus forces that need highly extensive knowledge. The thunder warriors were the supersolders that the Emperor used to conquer Terra when it was filled with warlords who had advance technology, psykers who had advance technology, chaos, and AI's .

Veteran thunder warriors had a kill ratio of 5 to 1 when dying from cancer. They are resistant to psyker powers making them good psyker Hunters (which we will need even more when Lin dies) and make good soldiers. Now they have thier flaws but we have Alkhaestry which can make designing a supersoldier easier and is a advantage we have that Callimus does not have.
 
I'll also note that none of the characters in the quest itself have suggested that Thunder Warriors aren't worth our time.

As far as the massive wildlife backlog goes, there will ALWAYS be a massive backlog. We'll never cease to have one. Unless something new and super valuable comes up, I'm fine putting it off for non-wildlife research... like we always do, when non-wildlife research makes itself available.
 
I'd like to avoid tying the Biologis actions up on long-term projects given how useful examination of the Nids is likely to be—especially given how superior we are to Imperium-era in psychic biology.

That said, in 40k there is no such thing as too many super-soldier programs. It's just kinda a thing. Sure, we'd always rather have 200 Space Marines than 200 Thunder Warriors, but it's not an either or option—the Space Marines are being bottlenecked by training and candidate requirements, neither of which are shared by the potential Thunder Warriors.

Also, while I'm all for having Lin do the research on the Primordial Sea soonish, it does absolutely need to wait for the vault being done and probably should wait for finishing off options like the created gods research.

Finally, I'd really like to encourage people not to base our tech research positions too much on what the other polities might research. Especially if there's only one polity that even might research it, like the Thunder Warriors. While they were all already strong and were boosted quite a bit by the tech exchange, the galaxy is a very dangerous place. There is absolutely no guarantee that they will survive to complete that research. Then there's also the fact that while the base technology we have access to is the same, there's no guarantee that the research paths will exactly duplicate each other. Take the fact that while Callamus has completed the heated Impaler research we have zero indication they've done anything on variable munitions, let alone the potential impact of crits on research.
 
Enjou said:
I'll also note that none of the characters in the quest itself have suggested that Thunder Warriors aren't worth our time.

As far as the massive wildlife backlog goes, there will ALWAYS be a massive backlog. We'll never cease to have one. Unless something new and super valuable comes up, I'm fine putting it off for non-wildlife research... like we always do, when non-wildlife research makes itself available.
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They have told us exactly how much they are worth. None were very interested in them outside of some for psyker hunting and as a way to rapidly make elites if we really need them fast.

Even fixed (reflexes and life span), which would take more than a century at best (if our Biologis guy can even do it), they would just be more expensive and somewhat physically stronger SMs lacking their specialized organs (of which black carapace comes to mind as very important), weaker warp resistance, and faster production. Edit: And lower lifespan, because in Embers SMs don't age.

Certainly not a waste of time to research, but for us? A minor polity with speciality in psytech and no lack of SMs and other elites?

Callamus will probably want them and be far better suited for fixing their flaws. And if Callamus does not want them enough, why do we?

Really, whats all this fascination with TWs? They have their niche, but SMs are just simply better in general.

As for our wildlife, come on. That we cant research all of it does not mean that we should stop researching. Avernus is a tresure trove of biotech, psybiotech, psytech, and more besides, it would be flat out stupid to not do our best to exploit its millenia of effort and expertise.

As for super valuable, there are a bunch which might well be. Should I list them out once again?
 
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Enjou said:
As far as the massive wildlife backlog goes, there will ALWAYS be a massive backlog. We'll never cease to have one. Unless something new and super valuable comes up, I'm fine putting it off for non-wildlife research... like we always do, when non-wildlife research makes itself available.
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don't think of wildlife as a backlog to go though, think of it as rolling on a rewards table. any individual research is unlikely to pay out much, but every so often we get something massive like the nogs. I do not think the thunderwarrior chain is worth giving up however many rolls on that table that it would take.
 
random_npc said:
don't think of wildlife as a backlog to go though, think of it as rolling on a rewards table. any individual research is unlikely to pay out much, but every so often we get something massive like the nogs. I do not think the thunderwarrior chain is worth giving up however many rolls on that table that it would take.
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The problem with the wildlife research is that we've kept researching psychic wildlife that was most likely going to give us new research for the Telepathica (and it did), who have an even longer backlog. Of the potentially nog-like stuff, we have researched very little.
I'll post the list again. Please, take a look.
AlsoSprachOdin said:
Pure Alum - purifies water.
Fountainclod - produces saltwater from nothing.
Alchemical Slug - "incredibly, phenomenally poisonous", "take in and refine any toxin to which they are exposed", "may be applicable to other chemicals as well", sounds good against Tyranid and Orks, possible industrial uses.
Samsonite Algae - "photosynthetic pathways are remarkably efficient", just what the farmer ordered.
Amrita Amanitas - another addition to the Avernite kitchen, and stims for troops. And you know you like to improve our troops. Possible combo with Alchemical Slug.
True Deathcap - "will eventually consume plant matter, organic substrates (such as most plastics) and even synthetic and metallic compounds." Should be good for getting rid of Chaos-tainted materials, and other kinds of trash. And against Tyranids.
Camo Crocs - another potential layer of camo for our guys.
Soul Oyster - "A battle cannon will only scratch its shell, it fuses with the seafloor and turns it as hard as adamantium, and its "mother o pearl" is outright immune to psychic powers, with even soul-eaters being unable to consume it." suggested a while back by Andres110. Should be good for reinforcing armor and psyker-proofing. Could make our Black Ships even better.
Avalanche Shrub - could help in siege warfare and mining.

[...]

Doomed Wombat said:
As for the research relax, if it really is 100 years I expect it will be put on the back burner, we're not silly,
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Enerael said:
Even fixed (reflexes and life span), which would take more than a century at best (if our Biologis guy can even do it), they would just be more expensive and somewhat physically stronger SMs lacking their specialized organs (of which black carapace comes to mind as very important), weaker warp resistance, and faster production. Edit: And lower lifespan, because in Embers SMs don't age.
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Honestly at best Alkahestry makes the action much easier/faster.
 
Now is not the time but can we divine Malcador ? He was an apex psyker. He would be easier to divine than the Emprah.

We could learn a lot divining the Emperor's right hand man. We might even learn the secrets of Chaos he confided to his pet hybrid human Eldar.
 
TWs are limited by training and recruitment too.

They are just so physically strong that they are still deadly without much training, and they can recruit more people and older than SMs.

Thought there is that lifespan (not that 200 is little, most of our people life shorter lives and many soldiers die young besides) thing.
 
AlsoSprachOdin said:
The problem with the wildlife research is that we've kept researching psychic wildlife that was most likely going to give us new research for the Telepathica (and it did), who have an even longer backlog. Of the potentially nog-like stuff, we have researched very little.
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we can chose not to research wildlife powers, there not all song weaving level impact. but there is also the benefit of making the researched wildlife less dangerous.
 
Enjou said:
I'll also note that none of the characters in the quest itself have suggested that Thunder Warriors aren't worth our time.

As far as the massive wildlife backlog goes, there will ALWAYS be a massive backlog. We'll never cease to have one. Unless something new and super valuable comes up, I'm fine putting it off for non-wildlife research... like we always do, when non-wildlife research makes itself available.
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And as people have said before this kind of research is likely to push Maximus to paragon level which would be extremely valuable for future research, just look at Tranth. It should also be noted that we can just fix the reflex issue to save on research time since realistically it seems unlikely that most of them would even last more than 200 years. That and it would likely extend our Biologis' life span if he isn't constantly researching wildlife that can easily kill him.
 
Enerael said:
Human blood
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I think Khorne is all we'll find here, Khorne and laughter.

Do fire.

godofsmallthings said:
How much would it cost to have an entire army out made of Thunder Warriors? Would it be feasible if the Trust funds us ?
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mmm
Durin said:
Thunder Warriors: Laying the Path- Now that you know how to create Thunder Warriors General Richards would like to create a regiment, mostly in order determine the best way to train Thunder Warriors. This would take almost two decades and give you ten thousand deadly, but inexperienced soldiers. While by itself not worth the time and effort that this project would require it would lay the path for future Thunder Warriors, including Psyker Hunting ones. Given that the best use of Thunder Warriors seems to be as quickly produced elites in desperate times it would be best to prepare for them well in advance.

Time: 19 years

Cost: 200,000,000 Thrones, 20,000,000 Material, 800,000 Promethium, 15,000,000 Advanced Material, 350,000 Exotic material.
Upkeep per year: 10,000,000 Thrones, 1,000,000 Material, 40,000 Promethium, 750,000 Advanced Material, 17,000 EM.
Reward: One Regiment of Thunder Warriors, allows training of more Thunder Warriors
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Durin said:
note an army is 10,000 regiments or around a hundred million men
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Yessssss.

It varies a great deal depending on how much of the cost from the above is because of the experimental process of figuring out the training regime above, but yeah it may well be.

That being said I does anyone remember if the free admech slot can be used for biologis as well?

Cause if we are doing the Warriors then having a means of being able to do the nids as well would be good.
 
Red Bovine said:
And as people have said before this kind of research is likely to push Maximus to paragon level which would be extremely valuable for future research, just look at Tranth. It should also be noted that we can just fix the reflex issue to save on research time since realistically it seems unlikely that most of them would even last more than 200 years. That and it would likely extend our Biologis' life span if he isn't constantly researching wildlife that can easily kill him.
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Maximal has a learning of 32, and no traits at master/grandmaster. he is not close enough to being a paragon learning for that to be a likly outcome. as for him dying, he has combat 47. He is unlkily to bit it.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
I think Khorne is all we'll find here, Khorne and laughter.

Do fire.


mmm


Yessssss.

It varies a great deal depending on how much of the cost from the above is because of the experimental process of figuring out the training regime above, but yeah it may well be.

That being said I does anyone remember if the free admech slot can be used for biologis as well?

Cause if we are doing the Warriors then having a means of being able to do the nids as well would be good.
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A hundred million Thunder Warriors....


Hmm if we manage that we should launch a crusade against the Tyranids and the local chaos dudes.
 
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