The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
Besides what right do we have to ask him "Hey you know you're going to die right? How do you want to keep contributing after you are dead?"

That's just... I'd say cruel, but its not that... exactly.

Rotbart: "How do you feel about the idea of your remains being made into relics?"
Lin: "Well, I've been giving it some thought. Obviously my skull should be gilded and go to [first orphanage I founded]."
Rotbart: "Obviously. I assume you'll want it displayed in the chapel?"
Lin: "The vestibule actually. I fear that it'll attract quite a few pilgrims, and I wouldn't want the young ones to have to deal with a constant stream of people tromping through their living areas."
Rotbart: "Fair point."
Lin: "As for the rest, I think the bones of my trigger fingers should be worked into the firing mechanism of my pistols. I've spoken to Tranth and we've worked out the best way to go about that. The rest of my hand and foot bones will be distributed among my friends and the Telepathica graduates I counseled. How do you feel about a pair of knucklebone for yourself and Syr, by the way?"
Rotbart: "I would be honored."
Lin: "It's my pleasure, I assure you. As for the rest, I think my larger bones should be sectioned into discs and, along with my smaller bones, be distributed to major temples throughout the Trust. Oh, except for my spine. That I think should be incorporated into Horatius's Crozius"
Rotbart: "Well, it looks like you've got everything sorted out then."

Different culture, different attitude. Hell, I suspect that, as Avernites, they're both even more practical about these matters than the Imperial norm.

Edit: This is only partially a joke.
 
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You do have a point about cultural expectations but if he dies due to is soul burning out there will be no psychic residue like with a normal Saint. I suppose it's that the near-veneration he is accorded might be enough to make some kind of relics but I would not bet on it.

I'm not sure I agree. I could suggest that the way his soul is breaking down might leave even more residues than normal, and we couldn't really say I was wrong. We don't have enough information to make definitive statements either way.

@Durin
1. Can Ridcully perceive what is happening to Lin's soul?
2. If so, how does he describe it?
 
Maybe we should try to spend time with new Vanaheim Governor some time? He's reasonable, even if conservative. We should try to seek compromises rather than antagonize them. They sometimes have a point, we really go in questionable things often.

The only real comparison I can think off was a Navigator who got trapped in a space hulk and put himself in statis which worked... sorta.

He survived, but he kinda mutated and daemons kept intruding on his dreams.

Problem was he couldn't tell if that was due to the Statis chamber turning off due to power black outs or not.

Well, I don't think that we will put him in stasis on a ship with a broken Geller generator in Warp.
Also, maybe GK's can help him? Their power can be close enough to the Emperor's to slow burning.
12. Do the Quartok have a Tau like resistance to chaos?

IIRC, he said yes recently.
 
Maybe we should try to spend time with new Vanaheim Governor some time? He's reasonable, even if conservative. We should try to seek compromises rather than antagonize them. They sometimes have a point, we really go in questionable things often.
Probably not practical on campaign, people on our world is one thing another world is another thing.

Well, I don't think that we will put him in stasis on a ship with a broken Geller generator in Warp.
True, but the point is if the statis pod was just turning off and on again its one thing, if the daemons could still reach in and ping off his soul despite being frozen in time.

Still he was in the warp so maybe that's the reason.

Also, maybe GK's can help him? Their power can be close enough to the Emperor's to slow burning.
Not similar enough I fear.

They maybe better astartes, but they don't know how the emperor would have sustained and supported a soul, if we knew how we could probably sustain Lin on our own.

As it stands I don't think the Knights can even slow the burning.

IIRC, he said yes recently.
Ah thanks.
 
Rotbart: "How do you feel about the idea of your remains being made into relics?"
Lin: "Well, I've been giving it some thought. Obviously my skull should be gilded and go to [first orphanage I founded]."
Rotbart: "Obviously. I assume you'll want it displayed in the chapel?"
Lin: "The vestibule actually. I fear that it'll attract quite a few pilgrims, and I wouldn't want the young ones to have to deal with a constant stream of people tromping through their living areas."
Rotbart: "Fair point."
Lin: "As for the rest, I think the bones of my trigger fingers should be worked into the firing mechanism of my pistols. I've spoken to Tranth and we've worked out the best way to go about that. The rest of my hand and foot bones will be distributed among my friends and the Telepathica graduates I counseled. How do you feel about a pair of knucklebone for yourself and Syr, by the way?"
Rotbart: "I would be honored."
Lin: "It's my pleasure, I assure you. As for the rest, I think my larger bones should be sectioned into discs and, along with my smaller bones, be distributed to major temples throughout the Trust. Oh, except for my spine. That I think should be incorporated into Horatius's Crozius"
Rotbart: "Well, it looks like you've got everything sorted out then."

Different culture, different attitude. Hell, I suspect that, as Avernites, they're both even more practical about these matters than the Imperial norm.

Edit: This is only partially a joke.

- And what about you? - Asked Saint Lin.
- Well, I didn't thought it out it as thoroughly as you did. They should give my augmentations to somebody who needs them. Also, I think that it would be pretty nice if my skull will become a masterwork servoscull to serve my successors. Though I'm not sure about the rest.
- I'd suggest encrusting handles of some weaponry with bone panels.
- Perhaps. Also, now I think that maybe I should also order to make a writing set and a seal for the future governors of Avernus?
- Yes, it seems like a good idea. I think that they will appreciate it.
- Thanks.
 
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And most of those people falled to Chaos. Remember that 80 percent of the imperium , falled to the Abomination, or falled to some other chaos.
First - no they didn't, Durin said that uncorrupted human population shrunk by 80% since the death of the Emperor, not that 80% of Imperium got corrupted by Chaos.
Second - making relics out of human remains is in no way evil by itself. Yeah to our modern sensibilities it seems gross and disrespectful but it's a cultural thing rather than ethical. If anything simply burrying or burning the body could be seen as disrespactfull to them. And since nobody said anything otherwise we are still using servoskulls and the like, in fact, considering the death rate and lack of space for cementaries I imagine making relics out of remains of people close to you is a common thing on Avernus.
 
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First - no they didn't, Durin said that human population srunk by 80% since the death of the Emperor, not that 80% of Imperium got corrupted by Chaos.
Actually he said 80% of the human population is either dead or corrupted

you can not be sure on the fall of Terra not heralding the death of humanity, from what you have heard it has resulted in the death or corruption of at least 80% of humanity and none of the survivors are exactly in a secure position, slow death is still death

However, that does not mean that there is a correlation between making relics out of human bits and corruption besides the normal problems with Skulls.

in fact, considering the death rate and lack of space for cementaries I imagine making relics out of remains of people close to you is a common thing on Avernus.
Pretty sure we cremate our dead... if we tried to make relics out of all of them I think we'd run out of needs for survo skulls.
 
Yeah to our modern sensibilities it seems gross and disrespectful but it's a cultural thing rather than ethical. If anything simply burrying of burning the body could be seen as disrespactfull to them. And since nobody said anything otherwise we are still using servoskulls and the like, in fact, considering the death rate and lack of space for cementaries I imagine making relics out of remains of people close to you is a common thing on Avernus.

Yes, people too much project values of their cultures on fictional civilizations despite them being vastly different(BTW, not only fictional. For example, here, In Modern Russia, Conservatives are Communists).
For example, Imperium in some aspects is like feudalistic Best Korea with their propaganda being true to a somewhat high degree, with Kim actually divine. Except that would be gross oversimplification.
Also, relics made of human remains were and are a thing. And there also organ donations. Views on such things vary in time and place much. And even in the same place in the same time.
 
Yes, people too much project values of their cultures on fictional civilizations despite them being vastly different(BTW, not only fictional. For example, here, In Modern Russia, Conservatives are Communists).
For example, Imperium in some aspects is like feudalistic Best Korea with their propaganda being true to a somewhat high degree, with Kim actually divine. Except that would be gross oversimplification.
Also, relics made of human remains were and are a thing. And there also organ donations. Views on such things vary in time and place much. And even in the same place in the same time.
Not very disrespectful to me at least they're doing something. Besides my family has been keeping the ashes of our dead cats in the back of the car for quite a while now.

In any case I don't see much problem with Lin deciding his bones would be of best use as relics, as long as he makes a decision that for him and the trust it is the best decision.

I do admit however that I am far from innocent in terms of projecting.
 
@Durin

1 what does Saint Lin want done with his remains when he dies?

2 does he wants us to do anything besides juvent on him?

3 what would he allow us to do to extend his life?
 
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First - no they didn't, Durin said that human population srunk by 80% since the death of the Emperor, not that 80% of Imperium got corrupted by Chaos.
Second - making relics out of human remains is in no way evil by itself. Yeah to our modern sensibilities it seems gross and disrespectful but it's a cultural thing rather than ethical. If anything simply burrying of burning the body could be seen as disrespactfull to them. And since nobody said anything otherwise we are still using servoskulls and the like, in fact, considering the death rate and lack of space for cementaries I imagine making relics out of remains of people close to you is a common thing on Avernus.

Point of order, a large number of modern-day religious relics are in fact supposed body parts of saints, prophets and other holy figures.

Buddhists, for example, have relics that are supposedly made of the Buddha's hair, teeth and bones.

It's not really all that strange for a holy figure to be rendered into relics after their death. It IS a bit odd to have a whole and intact body to work with, but if his soul is burning up/going to the emperor/whatever, then his body is clearly going to be uninhabited.

Of course, I'd ask Lin if he has any plans with regards to his corporeal body after his death. Not right now, of course, but in a few years' time.
 
How about we don't treat Lin like an experiment and make his last year's agony filled by messing with his body as he approaches complete soul annihilation.
Maybe treat him like a respected Holy man and let him face total oblivion in dignity?

...That line is coming across as pretty much saying that we shouldn't make any attempt at all to save Lin. I mean if someone had condition that could potentially be helped with an experimental procedure I think it would be really messed up if someone said that they shouldn't even bother and just let them die. And no I am not saying we should force anything on him, just that even if Lin seems like he is beyond saving that it couldn't hurt to at least still try to think up ways to save him and then tell him about it. But in the end it's pretty much his choice and we aren't going to pressure him about taking any possibility since it's his choice. If in the end he is fine with dying then that's his choice.
 
...That line is coming across as pretty much saying that we shouldn't make any attempt at all to save Lin. I mean if someone had condition that could potentially be helped with an experimental procedure I think it would be really messed up if someone said that they shouldn't even bother and just let them die. And no I am not saying we should force anything on him, just that even if Lin seems like he is beyond saving that it couldn't hurt to at least still try to think up ways to save him and then tell him about it. But in the end it's pretty much his choice and we aren't going to pressure him about taking any possibility since it's his choice. If in the end he is fine with dying then that's his choice.

The thing is you are suggesting soul surgery, when per word of GM (during the talks about curing corruption) the only instrument we have for the task is a metaphorical blowtorch. Right now Lyn faces the best fate available to human souls in 40k: soul destruction. Let's leave him to it.
 
Dying is not a choice, just an inevitability that cant be helped no matter the technology or psychic assistance save if the emperor came back to lift the burden of such holiness.

We cant save him. At least in a corporeal way the preserves his overburdened soul.

Stasis pod might delay it. Im supportive of bones being used as relics.
 
The thing is you are suggesting soul surgery, when per word of GM (during the talks about curing corruption) the only instrument we have for the task is a metaphorical blowtorch. Right now Lyn faces the best fate available to human souls in 40k: soul destruction. Let's leave him to it.

Should point out that another possibility is that when faithful humans die they end up with the Emperor.
 
Did he train successor fully already?
Of course nothing can replace a Living Saint, but we need both a competent administrator for the remains of the Ecclesiarchy and a guy for preaching and spiritual care/guidance and a leader of the Witchhunters.
Preferably in one highly qualified person, as Lin was, but several seperate officials might work too.
 
Should point out that another possibility is that when faithful humans die they end up with the Emperor.
Very unlikely I fear.

The Emps is hiding/dead and reincarnating, I don't think a constant stream of souls is conducive for that.

Did he train successor fully already?
Of course nothing can replace a Living Saint, but we need both a competent administrator for the remains of the Ecclesiarchy and a guy for preaching and spiritual care/guidance and a leader of the Witchhunters.
Preferably in one highly qualified person, as Lin was, but several seperate officials might work too.
He's had plenty of time he's almost certainly either groomed one or made sure that when he dies the people directly underneath him are all so good that anyone of them would be a good pick.
 
Speaking of Sainthood, is Tranth the equivalent to one among the Admech? I'm not too familiar with how that kind of thing works in 40K, admittedly.

I mean, the way he's going, it seems like he might be made an honorary ultramarine or something, because wow the Varangians seem to love him.
 
Speaking of Sainthood, is Tranth the equivalent to one among the Admech? I'm not too familiar with how that kind of thing works in 40K, admittedly.

I mean, the way he's going, it seems like he might be made an honorary ultramarine or something, because wow the Varangians seem to love him.
The Admech don't really do saint hood, though he is probably the most famous Explorator in the entire history of the Admech.

Arkan Land?

He's a bitch compared the Tranth.

Incredibly important don't get me wrong, but still Tranth has recovered and restored a larger part of the STC than Land did.

Still Tranth was made an Veneratus about 500 years early, they'll probably need to give him a new title to get across how important he is.
 
Speaking of Sainthood, is Tranth the equivalent to one among the Admech? I'm not too familiar with how that kind of thing works in 40K, admittedly.
Not really. The only thing the AdMech calls avatars of their god are Titans.

They did make him Archmagos Veneratus at a relativly young age though, which is usually one of the most respected titles an old, skilled and successful Archmagos is honored with.
 
I dont think there are saint equivalents of imperial ones for the mechanicus, but one can certainly strap on a jet pack and lights to fly and glow.
 
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