- Location
- United states
Uh, Lin didn't really have anything to do with that choice. In fact the Emperor didn't either.
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
Uh, Lin didn't really have anything to do with that choice. In fact the Emperor didn't either.
But the power is born of that choice. My question was does he consider this "saintly" power evil considering its source.
- Location
- United states
Think there is a huge difference between using the souls to keep himself alive and/or power the astronomicon. Dude was already powerful to begin with and it was theorized that if he died he would have become a warp god anyway but no one was willing to test it.
That makes no sense... The power he got from soul sacrifice was also what sustained his ability to keep the warp rift in the Imperial Palace closed. If he died Chaos would overwhelm him, which is what happened. Regardless he would not have in a position to bless saint Lyn.
- Location
- Germany
Don't you know SV by now?
Edit: If that were a remotly realistic option, as it was for Big E, people would be arguing for it.
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- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
you can not be sure on the fall of Terra not heralding the death of humanity, from what you have heard it has resulted in the death or corruption of at least 80% of humanity and none of the survivors are exactly in a secure position, slow death is still death
and he does not as the Emperor's power was not born out of unwilling sacrifice, most of it was innate the sacrificing just kept him alive.
and the if he died then he could not have lived to bless Saint Lin so that the power that Siant Lin gained is evil because the power that was keeping the emperor alive could be evil is a rather poor argument. it is basically we would not have met if it was not for evil so the results of our meeting is evil
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- Location
- United states
Again making a lot of assumptions. Also just because the souls kept the Emperor alive is kind of a very weak argument there.
HanEmpire
Delicious
That doesn't make any difference because this super dictator Rotbart would probably do the same thing that the Emperor did if he had the same reach. There's no difference in moral standing.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Damn...
Humanity is in worse shape then I suspected.
Bunker down bunker down.
- Location
- Germany
Honestly, 20% survivors from a total collapse of long-range travel is pretty good.
If so many are alive it means nobody has been rolling up most of the underdefended systems.
Basically, if a Chaos Army or 'Nid Swarm comes by now there is no sector-fleet to intervene and I'm pretty sure less than one tenth of the individual sub-sectors or systems have the firepower to defend themselves against anything serious.
I would have expected a good half of humanity to fall to Chaos, starve on Hiveworlds without self-sufficiency or be slowly overwhelmed by local threats, even without active foes on the galactic stage.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Long range travel would be gone, but short range (sector subsector) travel would still be a thing.
I expected more like 40% survivors in all honesty.
Objectively I know that his stats are actually pretty good. But in comparison to all the other governors and major characters… he looks fairly pathetic.
Yeah, somehow I don't see Vanaheim ever being the greatest power in the trust. Not with a planet of Space Marines in the running.
So much for 'some as cheap as 500 souls.
@Durin
1 Are you planning to add more Runes?
2 If so, are you open to suggestions?
As far as I'm aware no one else had the opportunity to trade souls, so that isn't saying much.
Notably however the Craftworld Eldar use souls as the hard-drives of their expendable cannon-fodder and the old Imperium taxed souls to feed the Emperor.
This is warhammer, all resources that can be used will be used. It is just that souls are difficult to utilise so it happens less.
Par for the course. We live on a Death world and import new sacrificial population whenever we can. We monitor our population. We literally grow people for the sole purpose of being brutally efficient killing machines. I'm reasonably certain the AdMech is still vivisecting and lobotomising people to make servitors. We slaughter anyone born deformed. We slaughter anyone who believes in religions other than ours, even ones that aren't a mimetic contagion. We are in the (very slow) process of invading and conquering a world that already has sapient inhabitants. We also trapped another race on our death world, dooming huge numbers of otherwise immortal and innocent individuals to horrible death, so we could learn to (love and) tolerate. We intend to use weapons of planetary destruction in the near future and doubtless will employ them next time we find killing entire worlds convenient. One of our chief political allies' advocated helping preserve a chaos polity just so they would make a better speed bump.
From the first turn this quest has been one 'evil necessity' after another, in the finest traditions of warhammer. Why is this particular atrocity so special?
- Location
- Germany
Subsector yes, but not sector. At least not with any speed or reliability.
And since defences against serious attacks are usually organised on a sector-basis, same as many supply-lines...
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
No he's human, not pathetic.
Again largest ship yards in the trust, they're always going to be one of the great powers of the trust.
Well the Craftworld eldar are using their own souls which is odd, but the soul in question is agreeing too it/ given how their after life works its more like a Dreadnaught than anything else.
As for the Emperor taxing souls isn't the right way to put it at all.
Sacrificed certainly, but they weren't taxing people for their souls.
Not really.
We haven't done that in centuries now.
Probably because nobody wants to come here for some reason
As I recall we don't do either of these any more.
Religion is free the state religion of the trust is the Imperial truth, but per the constitution only chaos and xenos worshipping the emperor is perscribed.
As for Deformed again IIRC we don't do that any more either.
"Conquer" is a very strong word there.
We are not conquering avernus, we're dipping our toe in and getting bitten by Pirana's we're not going to be conquering anything on the planet never mind one of the People.
Well one evil necessity by the standards of the Imperium.
This new thing is an evil necessity, one I personally agree with, but don't want to take any further.
Eh fair enough.
Large human polities do fly in the face of this, but exception not the rule.
- Location
- Australia
But shortly before we passed the soul trade agreement through the Trust, didn't we do a Siren Trade action to trade them the souls of rare animals they normally wouldn't have had access to? What became of that trade?
They gave us the Banish rune and don't want more animal souls.
- Location
- Germany
That was how we got the Banishment Rune.
It was incredibly cheap because FUCK CHAOS.
By not choosing oblivion (which he could have at any point) the Emperor allowed himself to be transformed into everything he hated: a mummified idol that subsisted of the sacrifice of innocents. You could argue it was by far the lesser evil (and indeed that is what I for one believe) but not that it was not evil and he was not evil for accepting that "devil's bargain" to stave off his death.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Does this really matter?
It really doesn't.
Facts of the matter are here and the emp is dead so complaining about hypocrisy is a waste of time.
I'm mare interested in what we should focus on for admech actions (I mean Titan sure, but who knows what else will become available with Scott's ascension)
lancelot
Completely worth it
The two actions are not equal first of all there's no option where they don't feed chaos if you simply kill them. So in the end it comes down to a simple binary choice kill them and feed them to chaos your enemies who will then get stronger, or feed them to the sirens denying chaos sustenance and as a bonus get something out of the deal. All things being equal even if we weren't getting runes I would suggest feeding any chaos worshippers to the sirens to keep chaos from getting anything out of our planet. Not only would we be keeping them from getting any power but I'm assuming they can strip any knowledge from the soul in which case we strip them of the ability to gain Intelligence on us.
If there's an option for killing them that doesn't allow them to be consumed by whichever chaos God they were worshipping at the time then please feel free to speak up that might be a better idea. Otherwise it's not evil it's simply pragmatic no matter what happens they're dead one-way screws over our enemies and actually involves far less suffering for the chaos worshipper compared to what would be done to them by their chaos gods.
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
That's pretty much a bum point for us.
Due to how close we are to the warp Avernite thoughts propagate to the warp and get picked up so they don't need cultist souls to get info on us.
Different for the rest of the Trust, but yeah Avernus is special.
Technically the BCS and high level pyromancy would do the trick, but neither of these are practical Xavier's got better things to be doing and the sword as well.
No its still kind of evil...
I mean I do agree with you on this pretty much 100%, but feeding cultists to the sirens is objectively still the lesser of two evils (obliterating a soul is kind of a big deal, its stripping everything from someone, there's a play I think which would be a good comparison, but I can't remember it ATM) and Lin would easily be seen as a hypocrit for being behind it.
So yeah from an OC perspective it's a bargain, same from certain IC points of view.
But, IC I really can see why its creepy, hell its still creepy to me and OC morally its not nice either, would you tell a christian that in order to save the world you were going to destroy the soul of some person eternally denying them God's forgiveness? I think most Christians would be furious.
Just look at some of the people on this thread for why IC people are worried about the slippery slope.
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- Location
- To the left. No, not there, the other left.
You don't really need Xavier to do it. Yeah, Xavier is one of very few that can use Soulfire in combat on wide scale, but using it on restrained prisoner in controlled setting is another thing entirely and you would only need decently skilled and moderately powerful Pyromancer, which at least on Avernus are pretty plentiful.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
IIRC using Soul Fire on any scale requires at least master pyromancy.
And a lot of power. Which even then tends to lay the person using it on their back for a bit.
- Location
- Leicester UK
Looking at the selection of runes I think the Rune of Focus would be a good choice to start with, buffing every psyker by adding Runes of Focus to their force weapons would be a good general boost to the trusts psyker capabilities. The elemental damage types look kinda meh even if they are relatively cheap especially since it will be a long time until multiple runes are a thing.
- Location
- England
You guys do know, it's the Xeno part of trading cultist souls to Xenos the trust objects to. The concept of anhilating cultist souls probably isn't an issue.