The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
Can we point out and hammer home the idea that simply killing people who swear themselves
the problem that also cause a lot of damage in morale, break the church, and well give the caos a booster (even if that also weaken then like you said). because people need to believe and without believe in grindark, well is that bad.
 
Can we point out and hammer home the idea that simply killing people who swear themselves to chaos will only cause their soul to be fed to one of the chaos gods making them stronger. That in this way we are in some small way weakening the chaos gods, and as we learn to use these Rune which aren't of chaos we grow stronger and can protect our fleet in the warp better than ever.

Come on with the right information and examples being given to our in-laws they should be able to make this guy look like an idiot.
it is not jsut this person who is doubtful of feeding human souls to xenos, it is most of the Trust including several of your allies
I don't think you get how big a deal having an alien eat a humans souls is to a xenophobic species
or even without that trading souls to others is crossing a line that many believe that you should not cross
 
The SV thirst for power cannot be quenched, Durin.

Observe as the next anti-Cultist options get the Siren Debate thrown in. >.>

Why must you do this to usss.
 
Spoiler: Siren Runes
Spoiler: For Sale
Elemental Runes
1,400 Souls- Rune of Fire- Imbues an attack with fire
2,500 Souls- Rune of Lightning- Imbues an attack with lightning
1,900 Souls- Rune of Ice- Imbues an attack with ice
2,000 Souls- Rune of Wind- Imbues an attack with wind
Defence Runes
6,000 Souls- Rune of Protection- Allows shield to protect against Psychic Powers
5,000 Souls- Rune of Toughness- Strengthens shield
25,000 Souls- Rune of Warding- Allows Wards to be created
15,000 Souls- Trap Rune- Allows offensive Wards to be created
Connection Runes
100,000 Souls- Bridge Rune- Connects two runes allowing one to effect the other
1.5 times Rune cost- Inverse (Rune)- Reverse effect of Rune, for example fire becomes protection from fire
200,000 Souls- Stability Rune- Allows the linking of more then two runes
Enchanting Runes
15,000 Souls- Rune of Enchanting- Allows other Rune sot be more effectively added to item
5,000 Souls- Rune of Focus- Makes item a better psychic focus
8,000 Souls- Rune of Power- Allows item to store Warp energy for later use
5,000 Souls- Rune of Reinforcement- Improves psychical characteristics of item


hmm, the enchanting runes look nice but we lack the knowledge to use the two most interesting ones safely. I think we might want to buy the standard elemental runes first, if only to get an idea of how to use them and just how many we can keep topped up. Special rounds with runes on em might be worth looking into. Possibly even for space craft, a shocking or freezing rune on a mass driver shot might do something interesting.
 
Honestly look, just be patient, it'll take a century or so but we don't have to compromise diplomacy or our ethics(even more) to get those runes.

But seriously this is how people fall to chaos.

I can imagine a SV quest where the QM carefully orchestrates things so the players give in to temptation and suddenly chaos TBH.
 
it is not jsut this person who is doubtful of feeding human souls to xenos, it is most of the Trust including several of your allies
I don't think you get how big a deal having an alien eat a humans souls is to a xenophobic species
or even without that trading souls to others is crossing a line that many believe that you should not cross

Did we not make them understand that these people having willingly giving themselves over to Chaos would die and then be consumed by the chaos gods making chaos more powerful? That in doing this we are making the Trust stronger and Chaos weaker?

I get that it's creepy, but they'll die anyways and their souls will be consumed no matter what so why should we not make sure that their deaths weaken chaos and strengthen us?
 
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THE THINGS ABOUT THIS IS THAT IT PROMOTES LETTING PEOPLE FALL TO CHAOS SO YOU CAN FEED THEM TO SIRENS.

Like

I don't even know how else to put it.
 
Did we not make them understand that these people having willingly giving themselves over to Chaos would die and then be consumed by the chaos gods making chaos more powerful? That in doing this we are making the Trust stronger and Chaos weaker?
See utilitarian vs. deontological ethics debate. You're so firmly on the utilitarian standpoint it makes you look downright evil from the deontological point of view.
 
Did we not make them understand that these people having willingly giving themselves over to Chaos would die and then be consumed by the chaos gods making chaos more powerful? That in doing this we are making the Trust stronger and Chaos weaker?
You are also joining the Dark Eldar as the only non Chaos race to trade in souls, greet company to be in and comply that will in no way hurt your future diplomatic options with all other factions. If I was a better QM I might actually see if I could use these to make you fall to Chaos without noticing
 
Did we not make them understand that these people having willingly giving themselves over to Chaos would die and then be consumed by the chaos gods making chaos more powerful? That in doing this we are making the Trust stronger and Chaos weaker?
That's a rational argument you're making to zealous people.

EDIT:
You are also joining the Dark Eldar as the only non Chaos race to trade in souls, greet company to be in and comply that will in no way hurt your future diplomatic options with all other factions. If I was a better QM I might actually see if I could use these to make you fall to Chaos without noticing
And it's a slippery slope that lets super radicals rationalize letting people fall to Chaos.
 
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THE THINGS ABOUT THIS IS THAT IT PROMOTES LETTING PEOPLE FALL TO CHAOS SO YOU CAN FEED THEM TO SIRENS.

Like

I don't even know how else to put it.

No it doesn't because no matter what we do they'll always be morons that go to chaos, we don't need it NOW because sooner or later we'll get ever rune. It gives us more reason to track down those that are escaping to the Warp while alive, and those that are supporting them while somehow staying under the radar.
 
You are also joining the Dark Eldar as the only non Chaos race to trade in souls, greet company to be in and comply that will in no way hurt your future diplomatic options with all other factions. If I was a better QM I might actually see if I could use these to make you fall to Chaos without noticing
Exactly. We're trading ethics for power, exactly Chaos description.

You really should, though, if you can.
No it doesn't because no matter what we do they'll always be morons that go to chaos, we don't need it NOW because sooner or later we'll get ever rune. It gives us more reason to track down those that are escaping to the Warp while alive, and those that are supporting them while somehow staying under the radar.
You're rationalizing.

Do you know how many anti-cult options we've taken this game? I don't. But it's been lots, and we've lost seriously bad at times when we didn't take enough.
 
You are also joining the Dark Eldar as the only non Chaos race to trade in souls, greet company to be in and comply that will in no way hurt your future diplomatic options with all other factions. If I was a better QM I might actually see if I could use these to make you fall to Chaos without noticing

We're trading in already damned souls, it would be different if idiots that go to chaos were a finite resource but as the universe shows us no matter what we do there will ALWAYS be idiots that go that route no matter how hard to try to snuff out chaos worship. The Gray Knights and Inquisitors can attest to that fact, hell offer to allow the inquisition and Gray Knights to oversee our anti Chaos work and those chaos cultist that was send off to be eaten.
 
No it doesn't because no matter what we do they'll always be morons that go to chaos, we don't need it NOW because sooner or later we'll get ever rune. It gives us more reason to track down those that are escaping to the Warp while alive, and those that are supporting them while somehow staying under the radar.
You sound like those Inquisitors that are about to fall to Chaos.
 
You're rationalizing.

Do you know how many anti-cult options we've taken this game? I don't. But it's been lots, and we've lost seriously bad at times when we didn't take enough.

Not really, honestly I would have suggested making contact with the Eldar instead and in the process to working together against Chaos and the Orks we can learn about their psyker tech.

But as we've already chosen this it's a simple matter of who is going to eat these souls Chaos or Sirens. We don't slow down on our cultist hunting hell we speed it up. But I invite @Durin to say one way or another that without a string of 100s we could completely purge our world of Cultists and chaos pyskers.
 
lancelot, what you seem to be missing is that we just took a step down a very slippery slope. this step was justified, and you could make a strong case it's better those souls be consumed by sirens than chaos, but the next step down of actively looking to get more souls is a doozy. We are at most 2 steps from falling right now, so no matter how nice the next step looks taking it is a mistake. because even if the next step is safe, after while that the step after it will also start looking good.
 
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Spoiler: Siren Runes
Spoiler: For Sale
Elemental Runes
1,400 Souls- Rune of Fire- Imbues an attack with fire
2,500 Souls- Rune of Lightning- Imbues an attack with lightning
1,900 Souls- Rune of Ice- Imbues an attack with ice
2,000 Souls- Rune of Wind- Imbues an attack with wind
Defence Runes
6,000 Souls- Rune of Protection- Allows shield to protect against Psychic Powers
5,000 Souls- Rune of Toughness- Strengthens shield
25,000 Souls- Rune of Warding- Allows Wards to be created
15,000 Souls- Trap Rune- Allows offensive Wards to be created
Connection Runes
100,000 Souls- Bridge Rune- Connects two runes allowing one to effect the other
1.5 times Rune cost- Inverse (Rune)- Reverse effect of Rune, for example fire becomes protection from fire
200,000 Souls- Stability Rune- Allows the linking of more then two runes
Enchanting Runes
15,000 Souls- Rune of Enchanting- Allows other Rune sot be more effectively added to item
5,000 Souls- Rune of Focus- Makes item a better psychic focus
8,000 Souls- Rune of Power- Allows item to store Warp energy for later use
5,000 Souls- Rune of Reinforcement- Improves psychical characteristics of item
Assuming a constant cult rate of 250/year and a capture rate of 40% (meaning 480 every 5 years), here is how many turns in order of the list we would have to sell cultists for in order to acquire a given rune. Keep in mind that this is by "turn", and not "year".

2.9 Fire
5.2 Ice
3.9 Lightning
4.1 Wind

12.5 Protection
10.4 Toughness
52.1 Warding
31.3 Trap

208.3 Bridge
416.6 Stability

31.3 Enchanting
10.4 Power
16.6 Focus
10.4 Reinforcement

I'll assume that when word gets out of us feeding heretics to soul-devouring xenos gets out, the capture rate will plummet as cultists would rather "die and go to their god" than be killed. However, assuming anyone wants to increase the capture rate by making the Arbites use capture equipment, keep in mind that capturing a cultist is quite a bit harder than killing them. And by harder, I mean "expect casualties".

Alternatively, we could just not interfere in the Arbites' Anti-cult operations, and just wait for the Second Daemonic Incursion.



You know, at first, I was all for selling the heretics to the soul-devouring xenos. It's an appropriate fate for a traitor, being both the ultimate punishment handed out to a traitor, and an act of mercy for an utterly damned soul. It denies resources to Chaos and possibly scares a few would-be's out of their folly. Also, the only way to acquire those Runic Shinies, since the rational conservative part of the Adeptus Mechanicus wouldn't let us trade technologies.

However, I get the feeling that @Durin is disappointed in our casual OOC utilitarianism, and discouraged from writing this game, which is very bad and ultimately outweighs any other concern.

Did we ever even try trading them for some Runic Equipment? Instead of knowledge, just trade them some heavy weapons or whatever (no tech secrets!) and let them apply some Runes to our things?

EDIT:
1. Also, what the hell does the Bridge Rune do that it costs over a thousand years of cultists? Is it just a weaker version of Stability? Stability lets us combine 3 Runes, which implies we could naturally combine 2. Is it magic QEC?
 
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Honestly look, just be patient, it'll take a century or so but we don't have to compromise diplomacy or our ethics(even more) to get those runes.

But seriously this is how people fall to chaos.

I can imagine a SV quest where the QM carefully orchestrates things so the players give in to temptation and suddenly chaos TBH.

THE THINGS ABOUT THIS IS THAT IT PROMOTES LETTING PEOPLE FALL TO CHAOS SO YOU CAN FEED THEM TO SIRENS.

Like

I don't even know how else to put it.

Dude stop freaking whining about the siren trade. People talk about trading souls that are already fucked and you over react.

You sound like those Inquisitors that are about to fall to Chaos.

Not really since he has a pretty good point.

Exactly. We're trading ethics for power, exactly Chaos description.

As mentioned many, many times anyone that becomes tainted by chaos to the point of converting is truly and utterly fucked and will upon dying will experience a fate worse then death where they will continue to power chaos for a very long time until they disapate into the warp. That's canon, having one's soul eaten by a siren may be a horrible experience but it is pretty much a far better fate than what would happen if they went to chaos.

And it's not like we are in it just for the sake of power. The galaxy of W40K sucks and humanity is constantly fighting off things that literally either want to eat or kill everything else with one of mankinds worst enemies being chaos. So don't think it's as bad as you are making it out to be.

Besides, as pointed out many of the idea's for getting more chaos cultists is impractical anyway so odds are people are just going to wait.
 
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I can imagine a SV quest where the QM carefully orchestrates things so the players give in to temptation and suddenly chaos TBH.
If I was a better QM I might actually see if I could use these to make you fall to Chaos without noticing
And that is why I'll never make a quest on this board,because there have been so many quests where the players really deserved to die.

Dude stop freaking whining about the siren trade. People talk about trading souls that are already fucked and you over react.
People also talk about forming the equivalent of DEldar slave raiders to go gather up lots of juicy souls from other factions. The Siren trade is good and we'll be able to convince the others we are right in time but only if we toe the goddamn line. The runes are useful but they're not worth going above and beyond to get. @Durin has been getting increasingly creative in how he treats our reputation; first it was hits to opinion, then maluses to diplomacy, and now permanent traits. What's it gonna be next? What happens when our own inner circle loses trust in us? How far do you think we can go until the trust decides to do something about it?
 
Patience is key while those runes look quite nice they are not really all that important right now plus who knows maybe if we expand more and discover more of Avernus' secretes we won't need to sell souls to the sirens.
 
However, I get the feeling that @Durin is disappointed in our casual OOC utilitarianism, and discouraged from writing this game, which is very bad and ultimately outweighs any other concern.

I really don't think this is the case. Though really, it just feels like people are whining about a few suggestions just because they were against the siren trades.

People also talk about forming the equivalent of DEldar slave raiders to go gather up lots of juicy souls from other factions. The Siren trade is good and we'll be able to convince the others we are right in time but only if we toe the goddamn line. The runes are useful but they're not worth going above and beyond to get. @Durin has been getting increasingly creative in how he treats our reputation; first it was hits to opinion, then maluses to diplomacy, and now permanent traits. What's it gonna be next? What happens when our own inner circle loses trust in us? How far do you think we can go until the trust decides to do something about it?

Again an over reaction considering that after it was pointed out how impractical it was people stopped talking about it. I mean seriously, a few people out of the dozens of voters make a few suggestions that everyone else think are bad ideas and everyone loses their minds.

Yes I think the Siren deal was justified and not that bad considering that chaos cultists were involved but I also think it's a bad idea to do things like go behind the backs of the trust and actively hunt down souls from other planets due to how bad of an idea they were pointed out to be.
 
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I think we should try and do some secondary trades of quartok technology to supplement our soul trade since it is going to take a while to get any of the real good stuff
 
Something to keep in mind we have barely scratched even a fraction of what avernus can offer us we haven't even left or for that matter fully explored the continent so this siren trade may seem major now but maybe if we keep expanding we will find something greater and does not require us to bend our morals so much.
 
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