The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
I think we should try and do some secondary trades of quartok technology to supplement our soul trade since it is going to take a while to get any of the real good stuff

Was discussed but people pointed out that we really won't be able to afford to do this for a while thanks to the political capital we just blew. Though it is a good idea despite how much people complain about it. The Sirens are at the freaking middle age tech level. That's far enough that we can trade low enough level tech that wouldn't make them much of a threat while maybe getting a lot of nice things.
 
@Durin

1. Is there any way to mitigate or reverse some of the negative effects that the Siren trade has done to us? By backing out of the agreement or not trading any souls, for instance?
2. How many souls are animal souls worth?
 
Something to keep in mind we have barely scratched even a fraction of what avernus can offer us we haven't even left or for that matter fully explored the continent so this siren trade may seem major now but maybe if we keep expanding we will find something greater and does not require us to bend our morals so much.

Hate to break it to you but it seems extremely unlikely that we are going to be exploring anymore of Avernus anytime soon. What with how long it takes to explore new regions, how many losses we take, how long we take to recover said losses and the fact that we are due to go to war with the Orks in a few decades.
 
If we were ever to fall to Chaos it wouldn't be because of the Siren Trade, it would be because of actions we took that went through quietly because the careful people(both IC and OOC) were too focused on it to pay attention to(and yes that that includes whether we went through with it or not). That is a fitting way to corrupt a character that would normally be too much for it to occur and would would show beautifully just how much of a threat Chaos truly is. Yes you are intelligent, wary and wilful enough to defeat risks you understand as one, (un)fortunately you were paying attention to the wrong direction.

I mean we live on Avernus that means we willing prolong continuous horrible suffering and death of millions for the sake of power. We are radical radical changers that, OOC especially, think we know better than anyone in verse, that we can change all laws, rules and traditions at will with everyone else being dumb to oppose us. We call ourselves 'progressives' and dismiss the people willing to change pretty much everything on how the Imperium worked just at breakneck speeds instead of a rocket strapped to their backs as 'conservatives'. We built the Imperial Trust around the concept of protecting ourselves only, and when we find a polity who have done their best in this shitty galaxy to protect as many as they can, who is willing to extend a massive trust in sharing key technologies that we have no hope of getting otherwise any time soon, we have ourselves as being generous to trade more than the fraction that we don't give a fuck about into a bit of the fraction we barely give one.

Honestly there are dozens, perhaps hundreds or thousands even, of decisions we(as in the Imperial Trust as a whole) made that got us closer to falling to Chaos than the Siren trade did even before you take into account the fact that one stands out enough it will receive plenty of attention and thus be less likely to be the one that fucks us over. It really is good that we are doing a lot of work against the whole xenophobia, pysker hate and such because without things like that I wonder if we wouldn't be more prone to Chaos than the Imperium ever was.

So here is what is going to happen. We are not going to change anything in how we do things, we give the 40% we can capture without issues to the Sirens, if we are invaded they may get more and that is it. Stop the scaremongering until any of the measures posted by random people actually get actual support in a plan because all it does is make people think your point has no weight and take attention away from the thousand other issues we have to deal with.
 
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Dude stop freaking whining about the siren trade. People talk about trading souls that are already fucked and you over react.
People are talking about going on literal DE raiding to get souls for trade.

And the DE actually have a better position, because unlike us they actually need those souls to not get eaten by Slaneesh.
 
Wakes up.

Looks at thread.



Welp.

Ok

1. Why is everyone freaking out about the Siren runes? They've got nice stuff, but lets not get crazy here, ATM we don't need it all that badly. I'm all for either saving up for Warding or just buying low hanging fruit, but there is no need to go WE MUST GO CAPTURE OTHER CULTISTS or any crap like that. Its stupid on so many freaking levels ESPECIALLY since he has answered the question no less than 4 times in the last 2 weeks. If we didn't have banishment I might be agreeing, but we have it so come on guys.
2. Olaf's replacement is fine, really. I actually think this change is needed, he's not a raging demagogue like a I feared he would be, he's got admin which ATM Vanaheim needs and the Conservatives do need a voice, does it suck he'll oppose us, yeah, but what can you do.

Honestly people why are you loosing your heads over this, runes are one thing, but becoming the new Dark Eldar I am revolted.

I thought you had more pride than that.

Besides we just need to let them come to us, the abomination still hates Lin you know.

@Durin
I personally apologise for my role in helping unleash this rain of idiocy upon the thread and your beloved quest.
 
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I am actually a bit irritated by how the playerbase don't consider NPCs as people at all, just things to be managed.

Ugh.

Like I know this setting is Only War(TM), but I can say that in Real Life and probably in this Quest, reputation is worth nearly and often more than armies.

And reputation is actually very hard to manage in Real Life - Durin makes it a bit easy TBH with diplomacy actions.
 
I am actually a bit irritated by how the playerbase don't consider NPCs as people at all, just things to be managed.

Ugh.

Like I know this setting is Only War(TM), but I can say that in Real Life and probably in this Quest, reputation is worth nearly and often more than armies.

And reputation is actually very hard to manage in Real Life - Durin makes it a bit easy TBH with diplomacy actions.
On the other hand it is impossible to get away from the fact that this is a quest.

I personally don't like seeing them as automatons, they've all got good reasons for doing what they are doing even if it takes some inference.

@Durin
1. Was the results of the Banishment rune enough for Olaf to consider it "worth it?" He said if it was it'd be easier for him to justify it?
 
I am actually a bit irritated by how the playerbase don't consider NPCs as people at all, just things to be managed.

Ugh.

Like I know this setting is Only War(TM), but I can say that in Real Life and probably in this Quest, reputation is worth nearly and often more than armies.

And reputation is actually very hard to manage in Real Life - Durin makes it a bit easy TBH with diplomacy actions.

to be fair to this thread, it's like 2 or 3 people who are all aboard the soul train. Most people just want to keep it at the present level.
 
People are talking about going on literal DE raiding to get souls for trade.

And the DE actually have a better position, because unlike us they actually need those souls to not get eaten by Slaneesh.

Not really, the DE have been doing what they have been doing since before the birth of Slaneesh. It's just that they have to. Even then they could in fact not do that since the Craftworld Eldar prove that. They just like being a bunch of raging dicks. Also again only a few people suggested that and most stopped talking about it after the flaws with that plan were pointed out and how everyone else would be against it.

@Durin

1. Is there any way to mitigate or reverse some of the negative effects that the Siren trade has done to us? By backing out of the agreement or not trading any souls, for instance?
2. How many souls are animal souls worth?

First it was made abudantly clear that animals souls wouldn't do it. Second stop complaining about the siren trade. It's done, we've already made the trade for some souls, not everyone was even against the idea, the hit to relations is something we could recover from in another turn or two and we already voted for the deal which is good after a long argument. We don't really have a reason to back out other than people just not liking it and it's just going to lead a whole new arguments.

If we were ever to fall to Chaos it wouldn't be because of the Siren Trade, it would be because of actions we took that went through quietly because the careful people(both IC and OOC) were too focused on it to pay attention to(and yes that that includes whether we went through with it or not). That is a fitting way to corrupt a character that would normally be too much for it to occur and would would show beautifully just how much of a threat Chaos truly is. Yes you are intelligent, wary and wilful enough to defeat risks you understand as one, (un)fortunately you were paying attention to the wrong direction.

I mean we live on Avernus that means we willing prolong continuous horrible suffering and death of millions for the sake of power. We are radical radical changers that, OOC especially, think we know better than anyone in verse, that we can change all laws, rules and traditions at will with everyone else being dumb to oppose us. We call ourselves 'progressives' and dismiss the people willing to change pretty much everything on how the Imperium worked just at breakneck speeds instead of a rocket strapped to their backs as 'conservatives'. We built the Imperial Trust around the concept of protecting ourselves only, and when we find a polity who have done their best in this shitty galaxy to protect as many as they can, who is willing to extend a massive trust in sharing key technologies that we have no hope of getting otherwise any time soon, we have ourselves as being generous to trade more than the fraction that we don't give a fuck about into a bit of the fraction we barely give one.

Honestly there are dozens, perhaps hundreds or thousands even, of decisions we(as in the Imperial Trust as a whole) made that got us closer to falling to Chaos than the Siren trade did even before you take into account the fact that one stands out enough it will receive plenty of attention and thus be less likely to be the one that fucks us over. It really is good that we are doing a lot of work against the whole xenophobia, pysker hate and such because without things like that I wonder if we wouldn't be more prone to Chaos than the Imperium ever was.

So here is what is going to happen. We are not going to change anything in how we do things, we give the 40% we can capture without issues to the Sirens, if we are invaded they may get more and that is it. Stop the scaremongering until any of the measures posted by random people actually get actual support in a plan because all it does is make people think your point has no weight and take attention away from the thousand other issues we have to deal with.

Thank you.
 
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First it was made abudantly clear that animals souls wouldn't do it. Second stop whining about the siren trade. It's done, we've already made the trade for some souls, not everyone was even against the idea, the hit to relations is something we could recover from in another turn or two and we already voted for the deal which is good after a long argument. We don't really have a reason to back out other than people just not liking it and it's just going to lead a whole new arguments.
Well more than a turn or two, but given that the lowest relations is 4 when after the Quartok it was 1 and they hated us in all ways and got our order knocked down by seemingly a century I think this didn't go down too badly over all, and the automated diplorolls we get with everyone helps a lot in that.

Hope that makes things a touch easier for @Durin.
 
I mean, before Ynead came about.

When the DE have a better moral position than you, you really need to rethink what you're doing.
To be fair the DEldar had three separate options (craftworld, exodites, and harlequins) if they wanted to not constantly torture people but they choose not to since they kind of like being the same raging docks that gave birth to Slannshi. While our soul trade is primarily to get more tools and weapons to defend our people better.
 
Honestly I just get stressed and really irritated every time people come up with a suggestion or plan that is either obviously stupid or would get our character jumping off the slippery slope in short order. It just takes a few moments of thought to realize why something is a Bad Idea, it's not that much effort.
 
The good thing about Ruthless trait is that's a personal reputation, not a state one. If Syr cancels the soul trade when she comes to power, it can be the first step in another direction.
 
Did we not make them understand that these people having willingly giving themselves over to Chaos would die and then be consumed by the chaos gods making chaos more powerful? That in doing this we are making the Trust stronger and Chaos weaker?

I get that it's creepy, but they'll die anyways and their souls will be consumed no matter what so why should we not make sure that their deaths weaken chaos and strengthen us?

The problem is our allies are xenophobic morons who think all human souls, even those willingly sworn to Chaos are somehow special snowflakes that should be mourned when they get the embrace of oblivion as opposed to the fate worst than death they would otherwise get.

*melodramatic voice* "Oh the humanity"

Arguing with the stupidity we inherited from the Imperium on this front has become more trouble than its worth. Let's focus elsewhere.

Although one does have to wonder how they rationalize feeding non-chaos psykers to the Emperor is better than feeding cultists to the sirens.

"It's better to serve a comatose cannibal god than trade with man-eating aliens." Truly the morality sparkles with purity.
 
@Durin

1. Is there any way to mitigate or reverse some of the negative effects that the Siren trade has done to us? By backing out of the agreement or not trading any souls, for instance?

I know Durin already covered this post but I'd like to add that backing down any would actually do more to harm our position than staying the course because it would imply that we'd made a mistake or were somehow "wrong." Sort of like how simply repairing the titan rather than upgrading would embolden the conservative faction and make them "right."
 
The good thing about Ruthless trait is that's a personal reputation, not a state one. If Syr cancels the soul trade when she comes to power, it can be the first step in another direction.
This is something we should just not talk about IC and keep it under cover so people don't notice it so much.
 
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