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The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest

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Susano said:
In terms of marriage, I still think the best option would marry sufficiently below our station (lordly but not a Lord Paramount family, maybe) that the seniority inside the marriage is never in doubt, and that we can pass on the family name through the matrilinear line. Yes, this risks not forging a friendship with a power bloc, but I do think those are the pitfalls a woman in a position of power has to navigate - lest she be de facto usurped by her husband.
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If we're specifically looking for a match that's lordly but not paramount then Harwin Strong seems like he might be an option. He's heir to Harrenhal and we could probably manage a pretty loving marriage with him. One of the issues that would bring though is that it would put us into conflict with Larys, who's the Varys of our time in terms of being a sneaky git and who really wants to kill his own family.

Though I think you might be worrying too much about the dangers of being usurped by our husband given we're a dragonrider. Provided our match is not a Targaryen, a Celtigar or a Velaryon then our husband likely wouldn't manage to be able to do the same, which means they'd likely know that their best way for their line to inherit the throne is for us to do so and then have our joint children inherit us.

Canonically the arrangement that was had with Laenor, who was the Velaryon heir, is that our first born inherits the Iron Throne and the name Targaryen, while the second inherits his father's demense and the father's family name.

Azel said:
Our hand in marriage is too valuable to not leverage it into an alliance, but yeah, station is important. We should be looking for third sons or cousins of sitting Lords Paramount, not their own heirs.
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I'm not sure I agree. A Lord Paramount would probably fight harder in order to keep their own progney on the throne then they would that of their cousin or younger siblings.
 
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Azel said:
Our hand in marriage is too valuable to not leverage it into an alliance, but yeah, station is important. We should be looking for third sons or cousins of sitting Lords Paramount, not their own heirs.
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The problem is patrilinearity is the near-absolute rule north of the Dornish Mountains. It is something that is just expected. Even a third son from a Lord Paramountly family, one of the eight highest families in the realm, might feel slighted by matrilinearity.

I am aware of the canon arrangement with Laenor, but ehhh, it does feel suboptimal, IMO. Maybe it is just that I would rather have more firm familial categories that leave no doubt.

Though I guess, if we're feeling spicy - as per the wiki, the children of the current Prince(ss) of Dorne should be in Rhaenyra's general age range, maybe a bit younger. They are used to ambilinearity.:p

...actually. They'd also be used to paramours. Hmmm...
 
Susano said:
The problem is patrilinearity is the near-absolute rule north of the Dornish Mountains. It is something that is just expected. Even a third son from a Lord Paramountly family, one of the eight highest families in the realm, might feel slighted by matrilinearity.

I am aware of the canon arrangement with Laenor, but ehhh, it does feel suboptimal, IMO. Maybe it is just that I would rather have more firm familial categories that leave no doubt.

Though I guess, if we're feeling spicy - as per the wiki, the children of the current Prince(ss) of Dorne should be in Rhaenyra's general age range, maybe a bit younger. They are used to ambilinearity.:p

...actually. They'd also be used to paramours. Hmmm...
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I honestly feel that our reign is going to be controversial enough as is without us angling for a Dornish match at this point in time. Daeron II's own example shows that Dorne becoming part of the realm via marriage is something that will cause a lot of resentment for a considerable amount of time until it blows over.
 
Imperious said:
I honestly feel that our reign is going to be controversial enough as is without us angling for a Dornish match at this point in time. Daeron II's own example shows that Dorne becoming part of the realm via marriage is something that will cause a lot of resentment for a considerable amount of time until it blows over.
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No need to go to those lengths. Marrying foreign royal families is itself a common enough concept, without unions. Rhaenyra's canon son Viserys II would go on to marry a Rogarre, de facto rulers of Lys at the time (and funnily enough the Prince Consort of Dorne at the time was one as well), and Daemon Blackfyre married Rohanne of Tyrosh.

Of course, given history, a Dornish husband would still be controversial even without union. Convenient, helpful with external diplomacy, but not so much with internal diplomacy maybe.
 
Susano said:
No need to go to those lengths. Marrying foreign royal families is itself a common enough concept, without unions. Rhaenyra's canon son Viserys II would go on to marry a Rogarre, de facto rulers of Lys at the time (and funnily enough the Prince Consort of Dorne at the time was one as well), and Daemon Blackfyre married Rohanne of Tyrosh.

Of course, given history, a Dornish husband would still be controversial even without union. Convenient, helpful with external diplomacy, but not so much with internal diplomacy maybe.
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The free cities would probably be less controversial then Dorne given how bad relations are between Dorne and the Iron Throne right now. Dorne isn't just a foreign realm, its the Iron Throne's historical enemy, and a lot of people in at least the Reach and the Stormlands probably hate their guts, and would likely be particularly incensed if we call on Dornish forces to march through their lands in order to support our claim in any civil war for the throne as part of any marriage pact.
 
[X] Plan Family and Politics

Wow! This quest already sounds exceptionally interesting... makes my new quest look like shit in comparison.

So does this quest only follow show canon?

Anyway, I think I like the Family and Politics plan the best, but can see merit in all the other plans as well. As for our marriage, we marry someone and don't fuck another guy on the side. Seriously, the whole passing bastards as absolutely terrible for Rhaenyra to do. It could have pissed off Corlys and Rhaenys (luckily for her, it didn't) and it hurt her claim in the eyes of the other nobles.
 
[X] Plan Moody Teenager

also approval voting for:

[X] Plan Family and Politics
 
In terms of finding love, there's always exploring a Dornish match as the only non-kin that can approach us as equals and therefore not need misogyny to hold their own in the marriage, or just openly marrying a Harwin Strong that isn't Mysteriously Murdered, and/or pulling like a reverse Renly, Loras, and Margaery, with Gwayne and Alicent Hightower, or something.
 
bookwyrm said:
In terms of finding love, there's always exploring a Dornish match as the only non-kin that can approach us as equals and therefore not need misogyny to hold their own in the marriage, or just openly marrying a Harwin Strong that isn't Mysteriously Murdered, and/or pulling like a reverse Renly, Loras, and Margaery, with Gwayne and Alicent Hightower, or something.
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Honestly, that vibes with that are good.

I'd have peace on those terms
 
bookwyrm said:
In terms of finding love, there's always exploring a Dornish match as the only non-kin that can approach us as equals and therefore not need misogyny to hold their own in the marriage, or just openly marrying a Harwin Strong that isn't Mysteriously Murdered, and/or pulling like a reverse Renly, Loras, and Margaery, with Gwayne and Alicent Hightower, or something.
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Harwin's actually a pretty decent match. He's not a lord paramount, but he is heir to a major lordship, and its a match that could very likely be loving as well. It's the sort of match that Viserys could probably accept as not being below our station. We'd have even more reason to try to get rid of Larys though, given he's probably intent on killing his brother.
 
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Teen Spirit said:
I should point out you have absolutely terrible traits for wanting Rhaenyra to willingly rush into a political marriage.
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All the more reason to start looking for potential matches sooner rather than later, no? It would allow us the time to actually meet and get to know potential husbands before Viserys actually forces us to rush the process like he does in canon.
 
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Voting closed
  • Voting
    • Well that's pretty conclusive. Voting closed

    Adhoc vote count started by Teen Spirit on Jul 27, 2024 at 12:26 PM, finished with 72 posts and 38 votes.
    • [X] Plan Family and Politics
      -[X] Speak with Viserys
      -[X] Speak with Otto Hightower
      -[X] Train with Syrax
      -[X] Study Visenya Targaryen
      [X] Get Swole Beat Nerds
      [x]Plan Small Council
      -[X] Speak with Viserys
      -[X] Speak with Otto Hightower
      -[X] Study the history of the Small Council
      -[X] Train with Syrax
      [X] Get Swole Beat Nerds
      -[X] Speak with Viserys
      -[X] Speak with Alicent
      -[X] Train
      -[X] Try and gather info on Daemon's activies
      [X] Plan Moody Teenager
      -[X] Speak with Alicent
      -[X] Speak with Ser Harrold Westerling
      -[X] Study Visenya Targaryen
      -[X] Train with Syrax
      [X] Plan: Solidify our Position
      -[X] Speak with Viserys
      -[X] Speak with Alicent
      -[X] Study the history of the Small Council
      -[X] Try and gather info on Daemon's activies
      [X] Extremely Poor Life Decisions
      -[X] Speak with Alicent
      -[X] Speak with Harrold Westerling
      -[X] Relax
      -[X] Sneak Out And Explore the City
      [X] Plan: A Certain Way of Coping
      -[X] Speak with Gwayne Hightower
      -[X] Ser Harrold Westerling
      -[X] Train
      -[X] Train with Syrax
      [X] Plan: Love&War
      -[X] Speak with Alicent
      -[X] Speak with Viserys
      -[X] Train
      -[X] Train with Syrax
      [X] Plan Dragons Family
      -[X] Speak with Viserys
      -[X] Speak with Rhaenys Targaryen
      -[X] Train with Syrax
      -[X] Study Visenya Targaryen
      [X] Building the foundation blocks
      -[X] Speak Viserys
      -[X] Speak with Tyland Lannister
      -[X] Train with Syrax
      -[X] Relax
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  • Voting
    • Teen Spirit said:
    I should point out you have absolutely terrible traits for wanting Rhaenyra to willingly rush into a political marriage.
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    Well obviously, we the voters have to manipulate Rhaenyra and Harwin into a tourny fight that ends with one of them losing, Rhaenyra ditching her heltmeted disguise, and the start of a back and forth with high amounts of unresolved sexual tensions. It just makes sense.
     
    Azel said:
    And beyond that, we just got named heir at his expense. Snooping will look like us trying to permanently get rid of the competition.
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    I think that's the whole point for the Daemon Punching plan fans. I'd say i agree its waaayyy too early to try and take a punch but yeesshh I'm not seeing a conclusion other than "take him out permanently," in the end given Daemon's whole...everything.

    prometheus110 said:
    Well obviously, we the voters have to manipulate Rhaenyra and Harwin into a tourny fight that ends with one of them losing, Rhaenyra ditching her heltmeted disguise, and the start of a back and forth with high amounts of unresolved sexual tensions. It just makes sense.
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    Ohhhh I like this (do the girl kissers also get an angry Alicent on the side in denial who totally claims she's looking at Harwin's abs while totally fixated on Rhaenyra)
     
    A_Somebody said:
    I think that's the whole point for the Daemon Punching plan fans. I'd say i agree its waaayyy too early to try and take a punch but yeesshh I'm not seeing a conclusion other than "take him out permanently," in the end given Daemon's whole...everything.
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    Right now he's roughly 30 while we're 14. He has a lot more fighting experience while not yet being slowed down by age, as well as a Valyrian steel sword, while on dragonback Daemon has one of the more powerful dragons alive right now. Killing Viserys' only brother would probably not go great with our father at this point even with how angry he is at Daemon right now.

    If Viserys never remarries then Daemon will probably be our main opponent for the throne. If Viserys does and has a son then maybe we could somehow get his support by bethrothing one of our children with one of his own like in canon.
     
    Maybe we could do a unification with Dorne early through a marriage alliance? our children or at least the firstborn keeps the Targaryen name of course
    Otherwise Cregan Stark is the only big name, powerful, pact-of-ice-and-fire fulfilling, Strong, independant woman loving, Bisexual tolerating lord I can think of, otherwise we have an asshole Lannister and an Asshole Baratheon.
     
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    Well there is Harwin if we're not set on a Lord Paramount family. Cregan is a possibility, but he's 11 years younger us, from the kingdom furthest from King's Landing and probably needs to stay focused on the North lest he be usurped by his uncle. A possible match, but not one without its difficulties.

    Maybe Borros will do if Jason is too incompatible with us. Perhaps a Tyrell to. I don't think even the books tell us who's the lord of Highgarden and his heir right now, save that by the time of the Dance the Tyrells are lead by a regency for a lord still in his minority.
     
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    Cbman said:
    Maybe we could do a unification with Dorne early through a marriage alliance? our children or at least the firstborn keeps the Targaryen name of course
    Otherwise Cregan Stark is the only big name, powerful, pact-of-ice-and-fire fulfilling, Strong, independant woman loving, Bisexual tolerating lord I can think of, otherwise we have an asshole Lannister and an Asshole Baratheon.
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    Unification with Dorne is probably the worst thing for Rhaenyra to be trying to angle for at this time. It'll only weaken her claim and standing by marrying into Dorne as of right now, even if won't be as disastrous as it was for Daeron II. Given that we are already going to have to go through a controversial succession, we can't afford it.
     
    I think the current approach to this topic is going to hammer us with a bunch of stress for no real benefit. But I think I found an alternative.

    Let's do a tour of the Seven Kingdom. Travel from seat to seat of the LPs and other important lords and get to know them. This shores up our support as heiress, lets us identify potential allies and enemies, and gets us an overview of the available marriage candidates without incurring stress over it or getting our father to think about the topic. Best case, we have some interactions that could pave the way to organic romance with someone.

    @Teen Spirit, is this an option?
     
    Azel said:
    I think the current approach to this topic is going to hammer us with a bunch of stress for no real benefit. But I think I found an alternative.

    Let's do a tour of the Seven Kingdom. Travel from seat to seat of the LPs and other important lords and get to know them. This shores up our support as heiress, lets us identify potential allies and enemies, and gets us an overview of the available marriage candidates without incurring stress over it or getting our father to think about the topic. Best case, we have some interactions that could pave the way to organic romance with someone.

    @Teen Spirit, is this an option?
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    Sounds good to me. I think our traits are actually a reason to start looking early rather then late, because we'd likely be facing far more stress in a situation in which Viserys is actively forcing us to marry as fast as possible compared to if we have three years to weigh our options if we start testing the waters now. A tour sounds like as good a start as any.
     
    Azel said:
    I think the current approach to this topic is going to hammer us with a bunch of stress for no real benefit. But I think I found an alternative.

    Let's do a tour of the Seven Kingdom. Travel from seat to seat of the LPs and other important lords and get to know them. This shores up our support as heiress, lets us identify potential allies and enemies, and gets us an overview of the available marriage candidates without incurring stress over it or getting our father to think about the topic. Best case, we have some interactions that could pave the way to organic romance with someone.

    @Teen Spirit, is this an option?
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    Purposing and organizing a royal tour would definitely work as an action though it would mean you would probably spend the next turn on the road so to speak. It is important to note that Viserys is in a deep state of mourning right now and would be pretty against that kind of long term travel at the moment so uh, maybe don't purpose it next turn.
     
    Imperious said:
    Sounds good to me. I think our traits are actually a reason to start looking early rather then late, because we'd likely be facing far more stress in a situation in which Viserys is actively forcing us to marry as fast as possible compared to if we have three years to weigh our options if we start testing the waters now. A tour sounds like as good a start as any.
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    We got told otherwise fairly explicitly by the QM. The Rhaenyra we got is neither ready, nor willing, to settle for a political match right now. Give it some time. Let's focus on knighthood and love for now. We are a teenager after all and succession is still off a decent bit.

    Teen Spirit said:
    Purposing and organizing a royal tour would definitely work as an action though it would mean you would probably spend the next turn on the road so to speak. It is important to note that Viserys is in a deep state of mourning right now and would be pretty against that kind of long term travel at the moment so uh, maybe don't purpose it next turn.
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    Noted. Waiting a bit for dad to be in a better head space then.
     
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