The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest
Royal and noble births weren't things done in solitude there were probably servants, midwives, junior maesters and maybe a trusted lady in waiting. That's not including the guard and other possible nobles waiting outside the room itself. I get the feeling that it's a case where people assume Rhaenyra was informed about what happened and it's not something that's spoken of but it's known. The health of the royal family is not really private information the small council at the very least are informed.
Having any sort of alone time was hard for nobles/royalty in ye olden days. It was considered weird from them to be alone for long and was a sign that all was not well in a house because they didn't have the wealth or political pull to have people around them. You know the whole "look how many servant I can employ and allies I have around me"
Having any sort of alone time was hard for nobles/royalty in ye olden days. It was considered weird from them to be alone for long and was a sign that all was not well in a house because they didn't have the wealth or political pull to have people around them. You know the whole "look how many servant I can employ and allies I have around me"
Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The scene in the show had at least a bunch of people helping.
Anyway, I don't want to go digging into this and blow up the Viserys relationship. Sure he doesn't deserve Nyra's sympathy about this, but his support is pretty significant to us, and it would be one hell of a source of Stress to both of us if our relationship soured so badly.
Anyway, I don't want to go digging into this and blow up the Viserys relationship. Sure he doesn't deserve Nyra's sympathy about this, but his support is pretty significant to us, and it would be one hell of a source of Stress to both of us if our relationship soured so badly.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Being punched by someone has a way of making you dramatically re-evaluate the way you think about them.
Especially if you yourself are not the kind of person who habitually throws punches or otherwise gets in fights, as Viserys is not.
Last edited:
Eh its just a fun idea really. Plus Vizzy deserves a punch it the face he had his wife cut open very much awake she did not go gently. Considering all the bullshit Deamon pulls on the regular I really don't think it would lose her the throne she get a time out, especially if it happens privately.
UrbanAvena
Stair climber and vertical movement enthusiast
- Location
- In the stairwell and elevator shaft.
While Punching Viserys is not a politically wise reaction to finding out that Viserys killed Aemma. There is a politically wise move though and it's called Guilt Tripping.
Never let Viserys sleep and live peacefully again knowing that he killed Aemma. Squeeze him for all that is his worth. Strengthen our position and our heir with a A permanent Small Council seat for Prince of Dragonstone. Threaten him to stop trying for kid so Viserys don't kill another wife (and we don't have a Prince to compete for but that is only for us.)
I was and have always been in Squeeze Viserys Dry caucus. Many don't want to risk Viserys relation as it weaken our position. Squeezing Viserys instead turn this personal relation strain into effectively unrestricted power for The Heir.
Never let Viserys sleep and live peacefully again knowing that he killed Aemma. Squeeze him for all that is his worth. Strengthen our position and our heir with a A permanent Small Council seat for Prince of Dragonstone. Threaten him to stop trying for kid so Viserys don't kill another wife (and we don't have a Prince to compete for but that is only for us.)
I was and have always been in Squeeze Viserys Dry caucus. Many don't want to risk Viserys relation as it weaken our position. Squeezing Viserys instead turn this personal relation strain into effectively unrestricted power for The Heir.
Last edited:
This does make wonder about Joanna though. I can't see Vizzy doing the same thing he did to Alicent to her. Alicent was basically isolated with only really her father there and I don't think he would've lost sleep if she died. Joanna though she's older and seems to have established herself with people from home around her. So I can see putting her foot down if he pushes to hard.
Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Is she older? I forgot, but weren't she of a similar age to Rhaenyra?
Was she? I got the impression she was older then Rhaenyra.
UrbanAvena
Stair climber and vertical movement enthusiast
- Location
- In the stairwell and elevator shaft.
Not much older. Her first appearance in The Dragon's Bride note that she is around Alicent's age.
Nah she was 16, Rhaenyra even remarks that all women not married were of her age when searching for brides.
Also Teen Spirit implied that Viserys would be depressed if she died
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I don't think this would actually work out, because while Viserys is absolutely vulnerable to being manipulated and squeezed by family members (e.g. Daemon), he's not gullible. And if someone keeps using the same manipulation tactic on him in a very overt manner over and over for years, he's gonna start resisting it. And when it's your royal father resisting your manipulation tactic, well, he has all the cards.
Hmm still young but Joanna does have the advantage of an actual support system. Also she probably got an actual marriage negotiation and contract with all the necessary paperwork done. Alicent just got thrown into the deep end and told to swim. Without any of the guarantee of a marriage contract or any real support. Its no wonder people thought she was sleeping with the king before the announcement it practically screams shady shit happened and there were consequences.
He was the type of dude that wants to be liked and keeping the peace even if keeping the peace doesn't fix the problem. If he can ignore it he did or shoved it off to someone else. He's not stupid he just avoids conflict like the plague. There's a reason he told Alicent to zip it about their meetings he knew exactly how it looked and how would be received.
The only time he every dug in his heels and refused to bend was Rhaenyra being heir and the legitimacy of her sons. I guess also wanting Alicent and Rhaenyra getting along but he half-assed that.
With regards to Aemma, please remember that the medical advice given was "lose them both or just her". It was, given the information he was given, the correct choice under Westerosi norms and some, though not all, modern ethical/moral frameworks.
Incidentally, out-of-universe, it's mentioned his guilt over Aemma's death has/is causing him to downplay his sickness and not pursue better treatments: he fundamentally see's "rotting away and an unpleasant death" as his just punishment/fulfil a hidden death wish.
Incidentally, out-of-universe, it's mentioned his guilt over Aemma's death has/is causing him to downplay his sickness and not pursue better treatments: he fundamentally see's "rotting away and an unpleasant death" as his just punishment/fulfil a hidden death wish.
I understood it as an either or type of thing, if she would have died anyways I don't think it would have had the same impact. He chose the possibility of his long awaited male heir over his beloved wife, only for said son to barely live a day. Basically he sacrificed his wife for a son only to loses them both in the end.
There is supposedly some vauge possibility that the iron throne has some magic. Of course it could just be leprosy and the cut from the iron throne was just a coincidence.
It could his guilt that's making him avoid help or just his usual avoidance of not looking at things he doesn't want to, possibly both. Not that it stop him from having more children he ignored. I think he spent more time with his model that his kids including Rhaenyra. Dude was checking out for good while before kicking the bucket.
There is supposedly some vauge possibility that the iron throne has some magic. Of course it could just be leprosy and the cut from the iron throne was just a coincidence.
It could his guilt that's making him avoid help or just his usual avoidance of not looking at things he doesn't want to, possibly both. Not that it stop him from having more children he ignored. I think he spent more time with his model that his kids including Rhaenyra. Dude was checking out for good while before kicking the bucket.
Nope. He was told "To sacrifice one… or to lose them both." And the "Behind the Episode" thing confirms that she was going to die either way. Barring a (literal?) miracle, there was no way for her to survive.
He was also told he needed to make the decision right now, or it'd be too late. "We must either act now or leave it with the gods."
Now, of course, many have pointed out that she should have been given the choice, but I'm not sure even IRL she would be of sound enough mind to give informed consent due to drugs: "We've given her as much milk of the poppy as we can without risking the child."
If (and only if) such a case, as her husband, Viserys would indeed be a valid surrogate decision maker under some systems. And, of course, in-universe, such a thing really wouldn't matter, as it's the husbands/fathers decision, no matter what the wife wants.
As such, I, personally, do not think Viserys's decision was wrong. He was acting within the information he was given. I'm honestly more leery of Mellos and the midwives(was there really nothing they could do to make it less painful, or at the barest minimum, ensure she has a more peaceful death before the effective torture?). I do blame Viserys for creating the situation in the first place, however.
Last edited:
I think it's also fair to blame him for lying to Aemma right before they do it. You mentioned the milk of the poppy but at least the way the scene is acted, she definitely seems cognizant enough that it's immoral both to make that decision without her and not to tell her about it. That's plenty for him to feel guilty about, although I don't know that it's sort of thing that would get Rhaenyra mad at him when hearing an abbreviated description of it after the fact. If she could see the scene from the show, that might be different.
Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
She wasn't even told what's going on. She just went from a normal birthing experience (which is to say, absofuckinglutely miserable but with a light at the end of the tunnel) to being murdered with zero explanation. That's a horrific way to die and I 100% blame Viserys for it, even if there was actually no way to save her or make it less painful. She didn't even get to know what she was dying for, or why.
- Location
- Canada
I'm pretty certain that the Iron Throne does not actually have any magical ability to cut people who are "unworthy"
It's just an urban legend
More than that, it's an urban legend that was used to discredit Rhaenyra's right to rule due to constant rumors that it was cutting her
It started with Maegor because he was found sitting on it with his wrists slit and his neck jammed on a spike, but it's a lot more likely that he either committed suicide or was assassinated and had his body posed on the throne post mortem
Because if the throne is magic and cuts "unworthy" people then where the hell was it when Aerys was sitting on it? Or Joffrey?
For the matter, why was Maegor completely fine while committing atrocities left and right only to get spiked randomly on some arbitrary day?
Of all kings, Viserys is the guy who apparently transgressed so hard he gets slow wasting death?
Like the guy wasn't perfect, but I feel like if this thing was programmed to make statements on the morality of rulers he'd be farther down the list
No, it's just an impractically large and very pointy throne
And I'm pretty sure book Viserys just tripped and sliced up his hand badly on it
Last edited:
UrbanAvena
Stair climber and vertical movement enthusiast
- Location
- In the stairwell and elevator shaft.
The problem with the interpretation that it is impossible for Aemma to survive is it ring dissonance with the whole episode that put biased disregard as a theme. Especially contrasting with Rhaenyra earlier comment about Aemma care that the priority is the baby not Aemma.
The Drug argument saying she can not consent is also not really fit. On the episode from 35:54 to 37:26 consist mainly of Viserys talking to Aemma and Aemma expressing her confusion and slowly realizing that something is very wrong. On 37:08 Aemma sees the Knife. Aemma realize her beloved husband is killing her and now she plead for her life. Screaming "No!" repeatedly. Aemma can understand her situation and withdraw her consent.
While I like the argument both for and against magical throne for Aerys II specifically it did cut him repeatedly he was called King Scab for his numerous wounds in the end.
To br fair both house of the dragon and game of thrones has a lot of myths and legends that may or may not be true. It isn't until one of the character sees it happening that we the audience find out there some truth to them. Even then we may not really know the full extent of what's going on.
Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I personally like the idea of the Iron Throne inflicting the curse - not because Viserys was on a short and exclusive list of Kings Who Deserved To Be Cursed, but from a combination of factors: kinslaying (a sin), trying to relax on the Pointy Chair Made To Never Relax On, and, possibly most importantly, destiny needing him to conveniently die just at the right time to trigger the prophesied civil war.
Last edited:
Yeah with the themes they had going on Aemma having no chance whatsoever to survive doesn't really fit. At that point there is no reason in not telling her what's going on it would have made the procedure less of an issue if she wasn't fighting for her life the whole time.
Also yes Rhaenyra seems to one of the few people that was worried about Aemma herself and not just the baby.
Both have been cut by the Iron Throne.
Aerys especialy was infamous for having lots of wounds and scars caused by cutting himself on the Iron Throne.
And considering how bad his mental and physical health was, i would consider him pretty cursed.