Fyrstorm
Gun Waifu Extraordinaire
- Location
- 'Straya
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Technically, the T-100s just use the Arges as a glorified target sign.
Upgrading Heimdal's Ran is a straight Research Action, and probably costs some Resources as well.
Tacit Ronin vs. The World
- Thread starter Fyrstorm
- Start date
Upgrading Heimdal's Ran is a straight Research Action, and probably costs some Resources as well.
aledeth
The Flesh is Weak
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's possible, but it'd mean TR wouldn't get an Agi upgrade this turn. I'm also a little bit opposed to it on moral/gameplay grounds because getting armed air units inevitably leads to us spamming nothing but them from our factories because it's the most cost-efficient choice.
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Balancing our units is up to the GM. But I'm fine with supporting your plan as is, as the agility upgrade this turn is certainly not a waste. I do think that a fixed wing ground attack aircraft could be a highly useful upgrade or complement to our helicopters, and would be fun to read about in battle.
I don't think this part of your plan will fly, given that we already upgraded the conpod armor a few weeks ago. Perhaps once we've beefed up our research again, we could try for another upgrade to conpod protection. As it stands now, any improvement that we might achieve with a high roll would likely be quite marginal.
The conpod and sensors are meant to be the jaeger's weak point (in-universe canon). Their armor, structure, and durability will likely never match the rest of the jaeger.
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Any thoughts on potential alternatives to increase the safety and protection when it comes to at least the conpod?
Alternatively, if we didn't do anything in that direction, I'd probably consider possibly researching plasma rockets/explosives of some kind, maybe see if we can make that viable for our units that fire physical projectiles.
Plasma rockets or plasma missiles are an interesting potential upgrade to our current armament. Lasers are probably a viable long-range energy weapon that could be paired up with a plasmacaster in another jaeger, or installed in certain conventional or superheavy units as a complement to our railguns.
As far as the conpod goes, until we invest another few points in research, upgrades to a jaeger's agility and dexterity are likely the best protection we'll get. Perhaps we could develop an augment that deflects strikes away from the conpod or sensors, and redirects them to the arms or shoulders?
[X] Plan All Jaegers, all the Time!
I recommend we transmit our Mk. I Jaeger research to Medford so they can make their own trip out to Oblivion Bay.
That's a good idea in theory, I'm wondering if we could develop some kind of armor that works that way or some kind of direct upgrade to the conpod area (which is really what I'm concerned about) which would allow us to get it without wasting an augment slot.
I think long range plasma could be done with plasma cartridges. Basically artillery shells that fire a self-contained armor-piercing penetrator connected to an ultra-high density capacitor. On impact, the energy stored in the capacitor super heats the penetrator (which has already pierced the target) into a jet of plasma.
Updated just a little:
[X] Plan Value Planning
-[X] Clean up the mess (-520 R)
-[X] Attempt to open or otherwise create an experimental, contained research scale-model micro-breach that would allow us to study it in detail in a controlled environment. (Free Breach Research) (Safe Research Option)
-[X] Continue researching improvements to the Jaeger Stat Improvement process to allow more stat improvement rolls per action (Free Jaeger Research) (Let's try to get up to 20 at least)
-[X] Build 1 Jumphawk Squadron, 1 Hellhound Squadron, and 1 Field Resupply Squadron (Free Construction Action)
-[X] Resource Recovery Mission to Vulcan's Nest with appropriate military escort, attempt to harvest and bring back as many raw resources from Vulcans Nest as possible. (Free Comm Action) (More Resources FTW!)
-[X] Research Salvage Facility (Research building that would allow us to both recover resources from destroyed parts/units and scrap excess materials we don't need - such as excess armor pieces in storage - to recover resources from them)
-[X] Research Jaeger Upgrades: Toughness for Tacit Ronin*18 (-360 Resources) (Get at least some kind of upgrade on Tacit)
-[X] Upgrade Manufacturing to 8 and build 2 Kaiju Salvage Facility (-9500 Resources) (Manufacturing Boost)
-[X] Contact Medford and attempt to negotiate to established an airfield outpost and refueling station that would ideally allow for a waypoint between Neo-Seattle and the rumored surviving holdout city of Los Angeles. (Let's make a real push towards LA)
--[X] Also, send them our information on Mark 1 Jaeger construction and refits
-[X] Attempt to contact KRAUN in order to have a more direct meeting with their leaders in some way, shape, or form. (Calling KRAUN, calling KRUAN, please pick up KRAUN, we promise we're friendly)
-[X] Research upgrade for Jaeger Conpod/Conpod armor to deflect critical damage away from critical control systems and pilots towards other surrounding areas where the damage would be less fatal, or otherwise look into ways to ensure pilot survivability in case of significant damage dealt to the conpod.
-[X] Research Plasmacaster Technology: Research a solution of some kind to the Overheating/misfire situation. (We've got direct energy weapons, lets focus on that and fix their primary weakness)
-[X] Research Plasmacaster Technology to increase the viable range of Plasma-based weaponry. (And also try to make them more viable as genuine range weaponry; if these work we can further focus on it in the future, maybe even see about scaling it down to make it a viable tech for our conventionals)
-[X] Repair Tacit Ronin (-50 Resources)
(10430 Resources Spent, 7890 Resources Remain)
So kind of like bullets but with plasma inside of them?
[X] Plan Value Planning
-[X] Clean up the mess (-520 R)
-[X] Attempt to open or otherwise create an experimental, contained research scale-model micro-breach that would allow us to study it in detail in a controlled environment. (Free Breach Research) (Safe Research Option)
-[X] Continue researching improvements to the Jaeger Stat Improvement process to allow more stat improvement rolls per action (Free Jaeger Research) (Let's try to get up to 20 at least)
-[X] Build 1 Jumphawk Squadron, 1 Hellhound Squadron, and 1 Field Resupply Squadron (Free Construction Action)
-[X] Resource Recovery Mission to Vulcan's Nest with appropriate military escort, attempt to harvest and bring back as many raw resources from Vulcans Nest as possible. (Free Comm Action) (More Resources FTW!)
-[X] Research Salvage Facility (Research building that would allow us to both recover resources from destroyed parts/units and scrap excess materials we don't need - such as excess armor pieces in storage - to recover resources from them)
-[X] Research Jaeger Upgrades: Toughness for Tacit Ronin*18 (-360 Resources) (Get at least some kind of upgrade on Tacit)
-[X] Upgrade Manufacturing to 8 and build 2 Kaiju Salvage Facility (-9500 Resources) (Manufacturing Boost)
-[X] Contact Medford and attempt to negotiate to established an airfield outpost and refueling station that would ideally allow for a waypoint between Neo-Seattle and the rumored surviving holdout city of Los Angeles. (Let's make a real push towards LA)
--[X] Also, send them our information on Mark 1 Jaeger construction and refits
-[X] Attempt to contact KRAUN in order to have a more direct meeting with their leaders in some way, shape, or form. (Calling KRAUN, calling KRUAN, please pick up KRAUN, we promise we're friendly)
-[X] Research upgrade for Jaeger Conpod/Conpod armor to deflect critical damage away from critical control systems and pilots towards other surrounding areas where the damage would be less fatal, or otherwise look into ways to ensure pilot survivability in case of significant damage dealt to the conpod.
-[X] Research Plasmacaster Technology: Research a solution of some kind to the Overheating/misfire situation. (We've got direct energy weapons, lets focus on that and fix their primary weakness)
-[X] Research Plasmacaster Technology to increase the viable range of Plasma-based weaponry. (And also try to make them more viable as genuine range weaponry; if these work we can further focus on it in the future, maybe even see about scaling it down to make it a viable tech for our conventionals)
-[X] Repair Tacit Ronin (-50 Resources)
(10430 Resources Spent, 7890 Resources Remain)
So kind of like bullets but with plasma inside of them?
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Pretty much. A real shaped charge sends a spear of high density metal into the target at hypersonic velocity and a temperature of around 430-570 degrees centigrade. This takes that same concept and turbocharges it by adding a capacitor that heats the penetrator to ten times that temperature.
From Wikipedia:
Most of the jet travels at hypersonic speed. The tip moves at 7 to 14 km/s, the jet tail at a lower velocity (1 to 3 km/s), and the slug at a still lower velocity (less than 1 km/s). The exact velocities depend on the charge's configuration and confinement, explosive type, materials used, and the explosive-initiation mode. At typical velocities, the penetration process generates such enormous pressures that it may be considered hydrodynamic; to a good approximation, the jet and armor may be treated as inviscid, incompressible fluids (see, for example,[34]), with their material strengths ignored.
Jet temperatures vary depending on type of shaped charge, cone construction, type of explosive filler. A Comp-B loaded shaped charge with a rounded or pointed cone apex with a copper liner had an average temperature of 428 degrees Celsius with a standard deviation of 67 degrees Celsius. Octol-loaded charges have an average jet temperature of 537 degrees Celsius with a standard deviation of 40 degrees Celsius. A tin-lead liner with Comp-B fill average is 569 degrees Celsius with a standard deviation of 34 degrees Celsius. the tin-lead liner also had a slower jet tip velocity of 6.3 km/s.[35]
It's effectively a two stage weapon. The first stage punches into the target and the second heats the penetrator to plasma inside the target.
Well, I left the research on plasma weaponry relatively open, so hopefully if we get something it'll give us the most promising direction to go for it, and then we can take that and work on it more later in future turns.
KnightDisciple
Brotherhood. Unity. Peace.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
Genuinely torn between @Space Jawa 's plan and @aledeth 's plan. Each has things I like and things I'm more ambivalent toward...
Feel like giving more on your overall thoughts?
I went with Aledeth's plan, since I believe that plasmacaster technology is meant to be a short range, burst weapon. Any range increases to this weaponry will be modest (lasers would likely be a more viable mid to long range burst or fire weapon that could be adapted for conventionals and superheavies), and the overheating/misfire mechanic is meant to balance out the +5 bonus damage achieved from overcharging the plasmacaster. I also think that our conpods are about as good as can be at this point in time (given our current research level).
EDIT: Overheating rolls takes place after a regular attack roll, and it would probably be viable to research the removal or reduction of this downside. The misfire due to overcharging would likely remain.
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KnightDisciple
Brotherhood. Unity. Peace.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
I prefer your take on the Salvage Mod (giving Resources, rather than Discount).
I'm unsure how much mileage we will get out of the "make the Conn-Pod extra super safe"; I know @Fyrstorm has explicitly said that it will always be our weakest point, and risk is part of the game.
I like giving JH more Agility. Same for TR.
I'm not opposed to trying to make Plasmacasters better, but I'd agree with @JollyRoger that they're always going to be potent but short-ranged. Lasers or Masers are likely a better bet for truly long-ranged DEWs. I think the most likely way to have little misfire and overheat is that it can't over-charge. Which is a viable route to look at, but something that might happen.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
[X] Plan Value Planning
Even so, I would like to see if we can do at least something to minimize the risk to our pilots and ensure there's at least some functionality should the conpod area take a major hit.
As it stands, it looks like Plasma is inherently dangerous to use even if we don't overcharge.
And if our research this turn makes it clear that making plasma long-range is not a viable option in the near future, if ever, I'll be down for taking a look at either Lasers or Masers; for now, we have Plasma energy weapons, and I'd like to see if we can make what we have work for us.
Ultimately, my main issue with what aledeth had in mind is that he's spending what looks like at least half our non-free action on trying to get as many direct Jaeger upgrades as possible; while I'm down with upgrading our Jaegers (I did include getting in what hopefully should be enough for a toughness upgrade), I'm looking at action management with holding off on it a turn for the bigger ones and seeing if we can't pull off another upgrade to how many rolls we can do at once to save us action in the long run.
aledeth
The Flesh is Weak
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The reason I went the route I did with the Salvage Mod, is I figured gaining discounts would be less useful in all situations, so ideally the mod would make up for that by being more powerful in situations where it does work, which would have a side-effect of encouraging us to build those things, instead of just getting more resources.
But "just getting more resources" is a good thing.
I can't say I'm understanding the logic you're using, especially since it seems to do nothing to aid us in the ultimate goal that we need "more resources" for - building a new Jaeger.
How does your plan ultimately help us with that?
aledeth
The Flesh is Weak
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's the 3->4 Upgrades that are always the most painful to do when looking at action economy. That's not something another turn of improving the upgrade process can fix unless we get up to 25 rolls per action (which I consider highly unlikely). Because Nat 1s always fail regardless of Research stat, when rolling 20 dice we need none of them to come up 1 if we want to get 3->4 in a single action, which is quite improbable. After getting 4, two actions of 36 rolls will be enough to get 5 for sure & probably 6 with the same action investment, though after getting to 5 we could upgrade the process again if we wanted to make 6 in two actions a guarantee.
The whole 3->4 bottleneck is probably why secondary stats on Jaegers rarely goes above 3. It just hurts to see the inneficiency.
Could be used to discount the construction of the components (weapons, arms, legs, armor) if not the Frame itself?
How?
I'm still failing to follow your logic, especially since it's starting to sound like it's not really all that different from getting resources in the first place, aside from being more roundabout and complicated.