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Tacit Ronin vs. The World II: KRAUN Jewels

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[X] Plan XYZ
-[X] Clean up the Blue! (-403 R)
-[X] Send a team to Oblivion bay to search for usable Jaeger frames, parts, and other intel. (Free Comm Action)
-[X] Research Breach Gate Technology. (Safe research mode!) (Free Breach Research)
-[X] Research Helios Heavy Fusion Stellarator refinement, including ironing out the weaknesses (shielding especially), making it compatible with lower-MK Jaegers in addition to MK IV Jaegers, and improved design efficiency to reduce its overall cost. (Free Jaeger Research 1)
-[X] Research Tacit Ronin Agility*20 (Free Jaeger Research 2)
-[X] Recycle 9*Steel Body Plating (Free Recycling Action)
-[X] Build 5*Banshee Helicopter Squadrons (Free Construction Action)
-[X] Research Magic. As in real, genuine, frakkin' reality-warping Magic.
-[X] Research Fragmentation Slicers to downscale their effective operational size and increase energy efficiency.
-[X] Research ANGEL-Net Transmitter (Safe Research Mode as a precaution against accidentally damaging Jagdhund in the process of acquiring the design)
-[X] Research the means to produce an explosive device with the destructive capacity of a nuclear weapon; if necessary, consider use of the Jaeger power cores as a starting point and the potential of creating a derivative design intended only to explode without ever actually having to power anything. (SAFE RESEARCH MODE!)
-[X] Research 'Breach Buster' Anti-Breach device
-[X] Build 1*Jaeger Sheath (-400 R)
-[X] Build 4*60mm Laser Vulcans (-1000 R)
-[X] Research Energy Shield Technology w/Crank Token
-[X] Research ARGES datalink capability for Heimdall and similar weapon designs
-[X] Repair Tacit Ronin & Jagdhund (-200 R) and Install Upgrades as follows:
--[X] Install Jager Sheath on Jagdhund's thigh, use to equip Ascalon Blade
--[X] Install Laser Vulcans on Tacit Ronin's Chest and Torso

(1803 R Spent, 35965 R Remain+Resources from Recycling)
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2d5+9 for localised breaching
1d10+8 for modified Stellarator
20 x 1d10+8 for Agi upgrade
1d10+8 for Magic???
1d10+8 for better BRFS's
2d5+8 for ANGEL-Net
2d5+8 for substitute nukes
1d10+8 for breach busting
2d10+8 for barrier shields
1d10+8 for superheavy Arges

edit: 1d10+6 for Oblivion Bay
 
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Fyrstorm said:
2d5+9 for localised breaching
...
2d5+8 for ANGEL-Net
...
2d5+8 for substitute nukes
1d10+8 for breach busting
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Taking these.

EDIT:
1) Mistakenly listed the Breachgate as +5 instead of +9, so should be 16 total there instead of 12
2) That 1 on Breach Busters does not bode well... :(
Space Jawa threw 2 5-faced dice. Reason: Not Quite Stargate (+5) Total: 7
5 5 2 2
Space Jawa threw 2 5-faced dice. Reason: ANGELnet (+8) Total: 8
4 4 4 4
Space Jawa threw 2 5-faced dice. Reason: Want BIG Boom! (+8) Total: 6
5 5 1 1
Space Jawa threw 1 10-faced dice. Reason: In ur breach, busin stuff (+8) Total: 1
1 1
 
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Highwind said:
...Huh. Random idea: mount whatever generates the shield into an actual physical shield and we have the perfect weapon for a Paladin Jaeger.
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I'm not sure we even know for certain yet what our next Jaeger is actually going to be.

I suppose that really is a thing we need to start thinking about having a real, genuine conversation about soon. Especially since at least one person really wanted a research action this turn that was based entirely around the assumption that our next Jaeger was going to be of a very specific type.

We should probably keep in mind when doing so that arguments of "Well, we have this Jaeger this time, we'll go with that Jaeger next time" should probably be left out of the argument with a mindset that this Jaeger - our third Jaeger - could potentially be the only other Jaeger we'll be building from the ground up, with all arguments about theoretical fourth or fifth Jaegers put away until we actually are in a genuine position to actually build those Jaegers. Jaegers are expensive, especially when we'll have three we're trying to take care of and upgrade, alongside plans of getting a second city in order. Not to mention we're currently looking at availability of getting what are effectively pre-constructed Jaegers, which will obviously drive said Jaegers in a very specific design direction. That, on top of the fact that we're actually making real progress and, with the help of KRAUN, we don't know if we'll wind up getting to a point where getting a fourth Jaeger will happen before we actually win the war.

Trying to make arguments based on 'you'll get your Jaeger next time' is only going to leave people unhappy if 'next time' never actually happens.

Those things in mind, assuming we've got all the dice rolls for this turn done, we might want to start thinking about what Jaeger we each want, preferably from a standpoint of if we only ever got one more Jaeger and what we're willing to compromise on until we've reached a point where we have a single concept we're happy to prioritize and thinking about designing for. Not two or three designs to work on with one being now and the other one or two being 'Next time', but a single design to focus on without letting ourselves be caught up in politics or arguments of 'give me this now, I'll help you get that later' or otherwise getting distracted from what is effectively the here and now when it comes to new Jaeger construction.
 
Like, of the Jeager concepts we've had proposed, the only ones I think I could really get behind are my pet project Revolver Shogun, and KnightDisciple's Paladin Victor.
I think you can guess which of the two I'd prefer.
 
'Twas mostly an idle thought, really. Paladins use shields and we just got a useful shield, so a Paladin Jaeger is now viable.

The only part that was mostly serious was making the shield generator separate from the body of the Jaeger so we don't get strikes anywhere important when it overloads, like Kraken got when it did.

And a physical shield means it still has some use if the energy shield overloads.

I don't have any particular preference for Jaeger designs besides making sure it has at least one ranged option and reasonable close-combat capability. Focusing too much on either end just makes it too easy to counter by either dragging him in or outranging it.
 
Highwind said:
And a physical shield means it still has some use if the energy shield overloads.
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What if we used some kind of pair of gauntlet shields that double as bashing or cutting weapons?

I don't see ruling out close combat or ranged combat capabilities on whatever we build (ruling out close-combat would be ridiculous either way), but my personal preference for our third Jaeger is to design some kind of grapple tank with range capabilities as a backup option. Something that, while capable of shooting, is also really good at getting all up in a Kaiju's face and giving them a death hug. Perhaps not unlike a variant along the mindset of Cherno Alpha but with better bear hugging capabilities.
 
Space Jawa said:
What if we used some kind of pair of gauntlet shields that double as bashing or cutting weapons?

I don't see ruling out close combat or ranged combat capabilities on whatever we build (ruling out close-combat would be ridiculous either way), but my personal preference for our third Jaeger is to design some kind of grapple tank with range capabilities as a backup option. Something that, while capable of shooting, is also really good at getting all up in a Kaiju's face and giving them a death hug. Perhaps not unlike a variant along the mindset of Cherno Alpha but with better bear hugging capabilities.
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I like that idea. A grapple-bot would be a welcome addition to the team. Arm it with the Electromagnetic Projector on one shoulder, a cannon of some sort on the other for the mid-range, a pair of Fangblade-like weapons built into the arm that don't impair its grappling bonus and then two bladed shields held in each hand it can drop with a free action. Use them to get in range, shield-bash and/or slash the Kaiju a bit, drop the shields and Grapple. Follow up with a shock with the Projectors and then punch until it's dead.

Mind you, the whole purpose of making the shields is to make sure any possible overload doesn't hurt us too much. I think putting the generators in shields built into your hands on a grapple-bot is... unwise. Mostly because if there is indeed Overload damage, then the arm will get damaged and might possibly cause some malus to the grappling roll.
 
Highwind said:
Mind you, the whole purpose of making the shields is to make sure any possible overload doesn't hurt us too much. I think putting the generators in shields built into your hands on a grapple-bot is... unwise. Mostly because if there is indeed Overload damage, then the arm will get damaged and might possibly cause some malus to the grappling roll.
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I'm thinking something like shield gauntlets, perhaps akin to miniaturized versions of the Captain America shield but not indestructible and without the throwing (though making them throwable/shootable in an emergency might be fun), perhaps something that's mounted to the wrists, but isn't built into the wrists. Magnetically/mechanically attached in a way where if damage or overload happens, we can drop the shields entirely to avoid loosing grapple capabilities. That, and taking extra precaution to build in overload and other safety protections.

Hmmm...I feel like there's got to be some way to make this two-shield concept fit into a Grapplebot.

Then yeah, outfit with an electromagnetic projector (ideally one upgraded for greater stun potential) and some kind of mid-to-long range shooty option so it's good for dealing damage before it gets in close, whether it be a Jaeger-Scale shoulder mounted railgun or some kind of shoulder-mounted rocket/missile racks.

And then build it all onto a bot designed to be able to tank a hit or two before closing in and getting a good-old-fahion wrasslin' grip on the enemy to hug them to death.
 
I'm not overly fond of the grapple bot suggestion, partly because may days of D&D 3.5 have instilled a hatred of the very concept of "grappling" in me, and partly because it can't really compete with the other, actually developed jaeger ideas we have, in my opinion.
 
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Space Jawa said:
Ignoring your bad personal history with grappling; How so?
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I edited to possibly clarify, but basically: Grapple bot is a new (well, not objectively, but comparatively) idea, one that hasn't had all that much thought and development put into it. Compared to the other Jaeger proposals we've had, a nebulous "grapple bot" just... Well, it doesn't compare.
It doesn't hold my attention or interest in any way, and even that Grey Ghost proposal (which I personally found pretty meh) managed to do that.
 
I'd attribute part of that to the influence of you already having your project you want to push. Shieldblading past into range for grappleslam seems decent as a possible idea to me, it just has the disadvantage if not having the time to get established in people's mind as an option like other builds have.
 
I know I'm not super active here, but as new jaegers go I think tactically either a meatshield jaeger or a grapple jaeger are probably the best. Jagd already has our ranged DPS, Tacit is our melee DPS. Both of them aren't super durable. So having someone to provide mobile cover with a big shield or being able to lock down a kaiju is probably what we need most at the moment.

Its also not impossible to mix the two together. If somewhat sub optimal. The Paladin tank jaeger could simply drop their shield and hammer before starting a grapple.

Alternatively we could go for a support tank jaeger of some type but that would probably be more research intensive. With having to research in battle repair systems, and or maybe some way to temporarily supercharge jaegers. While also being able to throw up a shield and defend itself as well. Hmmm instead of supercharge some sort of battlefield control option might be better. Kaiju sized net cannons! Hmm kaiju sized caltrops could be an option too. Explosive anti-kaiju caltrops.

So, I suppose the gist of my post here is we need a tank or a support more then another DPS dealer IMO.
 
Kosjurake said:
Alternatively we could go for a support tank jaeger of some type but that would probably be more research intensive. With having to research in battle repair systems, and or maybe some way to temporarily supercharge jaegers.
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I'm not sure classical 'support' Jaegers are a good idea, not so far as 'support' is defined as 'healer' or 'booster'. We want Jaegers to ultimately be capable of standing on their own on some level when necessary rather than having a giant robot who's primary purpose is to make other giant robots hit harder or last longer; since ultimately, if we need to split them up for tactical reasons, we don't want a Jaeger that suddenly becomes sub-optimal simply by the fact that they don't have another Jaeger around to benefit from their support.

I think the closest we can realistically get to having a 'support' Jaeger is in the form of a tank/meatshield/control Jaeger who, while benefitting a larger team by taking damage or holding a Kaiju in position for other Jaegers to beat up on, is still fully capable of taking on a Kaiju on it's own simply by nature of outlasting the opponent, taking damage so it can get in close enough and then grappling and beating said Kaiju to death.

Tacit works on their own if needed, Jagdhund works on their own if needed; the benefit both greatly benefit from from when working as a team is that - a great bonus. I don't like the idea of having a Jaeger that takes a hit to their viability simply because their primary purpose isn't fulfilled if they wind up being forced to operate on their own or they wind up being the last Jaeger standing.
 
Space Jawa said:
I'm not sure classical 'support' Jaegers are a good idea, not so far as 'support' is defined as 'healer' or 'booster'
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Well, you're not wrong. And the more I think about it the more I realize most of my support jaeger 'weapon' ideas could simply be conventionals in someway. Explosive caltrops could probably be deployed by modified carry alls and/or set up ahead of time. The net cannons could be an alternative 'weapon' for our super-heavies. As could the repair systems. As could the shield generator.

-facepalm- Our conventionals are our support. A support jaeger is pointless. -headdesk-

So yeah, tank/grapple jaeger is probably our best bet for our third jaeger. I'm certainly partial to the shield and rocket hammer paladin jaeger idea. And even if not grappled focused they'd still have high strength and hand to hand, so they certainly wouldn't be bad at it.
 
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