My sympathy is limited. I'm pretty sure Ashtaroth explicitly told Hitomi that she didn't want to meet Mami, because she kills witches like Ashtaroth regularly. Unexpectedly inviting Mami the first chance she gets was bound to cause problems.Imagine this from Hitomi's perspective--everything is fine and dandy until people keep going all Moby Dick on Ashtaroth until Bad Things Happen and everything increasingly goes to shit.
Makes sense, but in that case what happens with Charlotte and Candeloro, who weren't subsumed?My take is that Ash died. But as the Witch of Subsumption, the other Witches that Ash Subsume is now also Ash. So with the main body being "dead," Ash would just wake up as one of the others until her main papery body reform.
Actually the first time Hitomi and Ashtaroth met Mami wasn't mentioned at all. Ashtaroth didn't even knew the name of Mitakihara's single magical girl (she learned the name through Sayaka later).My sympathy is limited. I'm pretty sure Ashtaroth explicitly told Hitomi that she didn't want to meet Mami, because she kills witches like Ashtaroth regularly. Unexpectedly inviting Mami the first chance she gets was bound to cause problems.
I tried to keep it separate and describe only my impression of the music, but I have seen YuYuYu, so there was likely some influence.Darn... that description is actually pretty close to the situation 11 Stars 5 Flowers was intended for in Yuki Yuna Is a Hero, so that's a pretty solid analysis. I'll try to do better next time then.
I noticed that. It's about equally strange.It is a mystery... though, it might be worth noting that Charlotte's teeth were still bloodstained, even after her entire mouth had previously been destroyed.
That would be rather more blatant, yes. Though I was thinking unsubtle in a somewhat different sense, which I'm not sure there's a good word for. Peerless Blade, particularly the "capable of overcoming any other weapon" part, is… it lacks plausible deniability. You can't pretend that there's no reference there and the ability and phrasing are a perfectly natural fit. Contrast, say, the title of the most recent chapter, which makes sense even if you don't know what Homura's name means, or the setup I did to make "speak of the devil" seem like a natural thing to say when she showed up.If you think that's unsubtle, the original ability was just called "Mightier".
Mm, I'm definitely overstating things a bit. There is nontrivial information content; it's just generally non-unique in interpretation, and moreover those interpretations are heavily subjective. In hindsight I should have cut at least part of that from my post; people making assumptions about how much information is available to others and how easy it is to interpret is a pet peeve, and I can get rather more vehement than the subject really deserves. Sorry....good point. Sometimes I forget how much easier it is to interpret from my side of things, since I'm the one making it to begin with. Sorry. ^^;
Charlotte is very clearly dangerous, yes. But she doesn't just attack indiscriminately. Heck, she barely fought back when they made her upchuck Tira. Most animals don't have that kind of restraint. She's insane, and she's either 100% chill or 1000% murder, but she doesn't flip between them randomly. Again, she only attacked because Sayaka was attacked. So as long as no one attacks Sayaka, there's no problem.
No, not animalistic.
Just has a blue and orange morality and probably cares about Sayaka.
Maybe she cares about Sayaka. Maybe she thought she saw cheese. Maybe the clock struck eight. Maybe she wanted everybody to go away and stop making noise. The problem isn't that she's always homicidal, but that we don't know what flips that switch, so we'll always have to treat her as though she could become murderous without any warning—because it's true. Just because something's safe 99% of the time, that doesn't mean it's safe, unless you can recognize the 1% in advance.Well, Charlotte seems perfectly happy to toddle around our barrier without harming anyone.
Mami flipped her to combat mode and that's suddenly not nice at all.
Ooh, rocketry!
Hey, they're effective weapons! That doesn't stop being true just because magic is involved.
I'd either delete the comma or put another before "surprisingly". (The latter is grammatically correct; the former reads better.)
I'm not sure how she accomplished that. If she'd shot them, there would be bullets flying. Did she go and poke each one with a stick in timestop? Did Ashtaroth just not notice the bullets?clearly having destroyed your ammunition despite not appearing to have fired even once
"Transfer student" wasn't enough?
A cheap probing attack. Homura gets to see how tough you are and how you respond to attack, and all it costs her is some bullets. She'll move on to better weapons if your defenses prove effective.Sayaka desperately flattens herself against Novella as the girl begins to fire. You bring up Tome to defend yourself, barely moving it into the way in time to deflect half of the initial burst, but before you can do anything to retaliate the girl teleports again, and this time you don't manage to spot her before the bullets start ripping through you. Your arms and straps are perforated several dozen times over before you see your attacker standing on one of the crumbling pillars below and manage to adjust Tome to cover you again, only for the girl to reappear on a road to your left and continue firing at you unhindered. What IS this?!
Compound adjective hyphenation rule again.
Maybe this time it will actually help. Flight is such a useful ability for breaking an engagement, and it just keeps not working.
Interesting. What sense is detecting motion?while you still feel like you're moving, you don't appear to actually be getting any higher. Apparently your barrier does have a "ceiling", and you've just hit it.
Agreed. Magical girls are ridiculous.…that was an absolutely incredible shot, but you have no time to marvel
That's a good trick.The other girl doesn't follow, instead pulling several large, flat wooden boards out of her shield and quickly tossing them into the air at varying heights. Before they can even start to fall, another rocket comes at you from just above them
Huh. Sayaka's healing also puts out fire? Is it restoring paper faster than it can reignite? Or is it just her water theme acting up?A cool, soothing feeling suddenly spreads through you, Sayaka having grabbed hold of your stalk with her hands glowing blue. The flames begin to vanish as Tome's pages slowly grow back, some of the pain dying away in the process, and you manage to pull yourself back together just in time to pull up and avoid crashing into the ground.
"Blinding", eh? It doesn't have the magical oomph that Mami's did, to actually destroy things, but maybe it's bright enough to damage eyes. Non-magical eyes, at least.The girl's eyes visibly widen as you have your illusion pull the trigger, and the cannon pours out a blinding beam of energy that manages to envelop the entire lower half of the ramp, as well as a fair amount of the grass surrounding it.
Heavily cracked surface? Is that just the form he's chosen at the moment, or has he been attacked? Difficulties with Candeloro, perhaps?A massive orb with a heavily cracked surface shoots out one of the halo-like road portals and comes to an abrupt dead stop in midair, placing itself directly in the line of fire. You have a scant moment to process what the orb is and what it's doing before the girl fires her weapon. Wait, NO—!!!
The rocket explodes, and so does your familiar. Chunks of silvery-yellow rock are blasted in all directions as you pass through the portal to the Canvas, a pang of the non-magical type of grief twisting at your insides.
Good choice. (What makes the surfaces mirror-like but not actually mirrors? And there should be a comma after "thousands", but this way may flow better.)In a frenzied panic, you call up an illusion of the first thing that springs to mind, and a wall of reflective triangular prisms springs up between you, more of them following seconds later and connecting with each other to form an enormous, self-enclosed geometric labyrinth. Combined, the mirror-like surfaces of the roof, walls, and floor reflect hundreds, if not thousands of iterations of you, Sayaka, and the girl herself, thoroughly obscuring where any of you are.
Given your history, this does not fill me with confidence.
Is it illusory sound, or is it real sound bouncing off of illusions? If the latter, then the illusions are reflecting pressure waves, which would be interesting.You trail off as you realize that the three words Sayaka actually got out before you stopped her did, in fact, have an echo to them. That has to be an effect of your illusion, but trying to make illusory sounds didn't work before, so how— no, not the time.
You imagine a soothing female voice resonating throughout the fog, requesting a ceasefire, and try to alter your illusion to incorporate it. Success is… mixed. The attempt feels weirdly correct, as if it should be possible for you to utilize illusory sounds, but you don't hear anything, so presumably it failed. Strange...
The principle in situations like this is that the descriptor ("like Sayaka's") should not be attached to anything more strongly than it is to the thing it's describing ("is somehow echoing"). It's separated from what it's describing by a comma, so needs to be set off from what came before by something at least as strong as a comma. Otherwise the sentence parses as "The girl's voice is … like Sayaka's, …". There are some exceptions to this, such as such as commas acting as separators in lists mostly not counting, but it's usually accurate.The girl's voice is cold and hard as ice, and, like Sayaka's, it's somehow echoing from what seems like all around you.
And she's stopped testing us."Goodbye."
Without any warning or a single sign of the girl herself, a cluster of bombs suddenly appears directly above Novella, their indicator lights already blinking. You desperately shove yourself backwards, thrusting Novella outward in a half-baked idea of blocking and/or subsuming them while Sayaka drops down and away—
It seems like the stabilization is a result of the barriers being attached, not of Ashtaroth's particular nature, and that this acts to prevent collapse into a grief seed. Which could mean that, unless and until Charlotte and Candeloro are killed, Sayaka will remain herself (her meat is probably not too injured), her soul still trapped in the barrier. If all the witches do die, or if Ashtaroth isn't stabilized by the others, then it will be interesting to see what comes out in the way of grief seeds. One for Ashtaroth? One each for Ashtaroth and Saar, and a soul gem for Sayaka and Tira? Some fused abomination? If Charlotte and Candeloro have to die, would theirs be separate?You rotate around to face the separated halves of the windmill witch's body. They are trying to fade away; to slip the confines of existence altogether. But your barrier's presence stabilizes her own, preventing it from unwinding with her end. Still tied to it, her soul has nowhere to go.
I'm pretty sure the Bad End version of this chapter is just
*Looks pointedly at Walpurgisnacht*Homura is using moar and moar dakka until it works. A simple spell, but quite unbreakable.
…why? This is exactly what they're for.I felt kind of lazy using one of those "Epic Battle Music" videos
Or, as we just saw, you can bring incendiaries for maximum damage.Funny thing about that --- guns are actually a rather bad weapon to fight Ashtaroth with just in general due to her body being… well, huge, and not particularly vulnerable to piercing damage. Cutting weapons like Sayaka's would be much more effective, much in the same way it's more efficient to use a pair of scissors to cut through a piece of paper than it is to use a hole punch.
Their accuracy was impressive, but a significant part of their effectiveness was sheer quantity of firepower, both in number of bullets and the power of their larger weapons.If not for the fact that Mami and Homura are both very good gun users, Ashtaroth would probably have had a much easier time of it.
There really doesn't. There are several ways to make the barrier finite without having boundaries. Especially if uniform gravity is optional. Toroidal*, projective**, and spherical*** topologies are all pretty easy, though you might run into issues with spheres necessarily having curvature****. Also the fact that you should see ground in the sky.No witch is all powerful, so no barrier goes on forever, no matter how large it may look. There has to be a cut-off somewhere.
Well…Die how? Would she overload Tome and explode, grief seed and all? Would she lose the will to live and collapse? Would she suffocate by closing herself off from the world?While I don't want to give anything away, I'll say that if this fic was working purely off the rule of symbolism? If Ashtaroth ever fully entered Tome, she would die.
I suspect it's related to Ashy's growth spurts. Just a hunch.
Ashtaroth steals others' stories to build her own, growing out of the blank pages of reality (see also her witch symbol (search "insignia")). Should she retreat entirely, she would withdraw her story from the world, leaving only REALITY, bare of any narrative to grant it meaning.This is exactly correct.Yes, that's a great way to phrase it. Ashy stole narrative focus (especially from Madoka), and now she's assimilating the stories themselves.
Yup. If the barrier is a (Riemannian) manifold (with or without boundary), then so long as it's compact, it will be finite in extent, and there are many compact 3-manifolds without boundary. You can also have non-compact Riemannian manifolds of finite volume, though there are compromises involved. And if you don't insist on a manifold structure, you have even more options. (Including the temporal structure to make a Lorentzian manifold would unlock some additional options, but not, I think, very many useful ones.)The outermost part of the labyrinth is unbounded (effectively preventing easy escape), but it's not infinite. Running away probably won't work too well, because you'll just walk around the world and eventually arrive where you started.
Who says she doesn't?
I would like to take this opportunity to note that I moved the "Bad End" from Saar's fight to the sidestory tab. Take from that what you may.Perhaps Sayaka could become an unusually powerful Ummashtart variant once Ashy is killed, eventually developing into a clone of Ashy.
Okay, now I think I understand where this is going. *rubs hands together conspiratorially*My take is that Ash died. But as the Witch of Subsumption, the other Witches that Ash Subsume is now also Ash. So with the main body being "dead," Ash would just wake up as one of the others until her main papery body reform.
If "Sayaka" can use memories from Sayaka or Homura, it isn't. That isn't really the case, of course, but Homura didn't know that.
It could include a "cure status ailments" effect.Huh. Sayaka's healing also puts out fire? Is it restoring paper faster than it can reignite? Or is it just her water theme acting up?
Difficulties with Charlotte, because the moon is made of cheese.Heavily cracked surface? Is that just the form he's chosen at the moment, or has he been attacked? Difficulties with Candeloro, perhaps?
It could be his natural color: a planetoid reflecting light, as seen from afar.Not sure what silvery-yellow rock indicates. I can't think of any rock of that color, but I'm no geologist.
Looking at Confrontation 5, I'm guessing the sound is illusory. The only complication is that, unlike images, the sounds need to make sense. Hypothetically, Ashy should be able to produce illusory speech if she also makes an illusory mouth to speak with.Is it illusory sound, or is it real sound bouncing off of illusions? If the latter, then the illusions are reflecting pressure waves, which would be interesting.
Reminder of the last time we tried illusory sounds:
Two witches and two magical girls, including herself. The other two witches are doing their own thing.she may be made of paper, but she has three witches and two magical girls' worth of power, which may add something to her resilience.
The only problem was that Homura did not have enough dakka to escalate. The plan itself was perfect.
And then the barrier would die, because narrative is the linchpin of REALITY.Should she retreat entirely, she would withdraw her story from the world, leaving only REALITY, bare of any narrative to grant it meaning.
Truth be told, the latest developments have rekindled my interest in the fic. I kinda preferred it when it was an original story and we never went to Mitakihara in the first place, and with the fates of main cast changed rather drastically I felt like it might be returning to its original roots. Madoka's and Homura's dance has been revisited so many times and has been central to so many plotlines that I grew tired of it. I'd rather it remain Ashtaroth's story, and hers alone.
Um... judging books without reading the whole thing is totally a thing. I mean I think I get what you mean, but...
The outermost part of the labyrinth is unbounded (effectively preventing easy escape), but it's not infinite. Running away probably won't work too well, because you'll just walk around the world and eventually arrive where you started.
If Ashtaroth retreats into Tome, she pops out in the real world and immediately starts beating up @Flairina for making her suffer so much.
I tried to keep it separate and describe only my impression of the music, but I have seen YuYuYu, so there was likely some influence.
Ooh, rocketry!
Or, you know, it's a play on Homura's name and collection of incendiary weapons. But I'll pretend that it's about Ashtaroth's explosion-fuelled ascent to the heavens.
I'd either delete the comma or put another before "surprisingly". (The latter is grammatically correct; the former reads better.)
I'm not sure how she accomplished that. If she'd shot them, there would be bullets flying. Did she go and poke each one with a stick in timestop? Did Ashtaroth just not notice the bullets?
Maybe this time it will actually help. Flight is such a useful ability for breaking an engagement, and it just keeps not working.
Heavily cracked surface? Is that just the form he's chosen at the moment, or has he been attacked? Difficulties with Candeloro, perhaps?
Not sure what silvery-yellow rock indicates. I can't think of any rock of that color, but I'm no geologist.
The principle in situations like this is that the descriptor ("like Sayaka's") should not be attached to anything more strongly than it is to the thing it's describing ("is somehow echoing").
I liked the choice of music. It's not exactly fight music, but then, this wasn't really a fight. Mami was like fighting a player who is far more skilled than you, but still playing the same game. Homura was like one of those levels where there's an invincible boss floating around and you're just supposed to survive—and then it kills you in the cutscene. Also, timestop isn't quite god mode, but it's pretty close for a lot of purposes.
By the way, how do you go about searching for music? I've never been good at finding something fitting.
There really doesn't. There are several ways to make the barrier finite without having boundaries.
Huh. Sayaka's healing also puts out fire? Is it restoring paper faster than it can reignite? Or is it just her water theme acting up?
Huh, I wonder why I came up in convers—...oh, divorce papers. Lovely.Sufficient Velocity said:Flairina mentioned you in a post in the thread Subsumption (PMMM Faux-Quest) (Witch MC).
Top 10 anime betrayalsHuh, I wonder why I came up in convers—...oh, divorce papers. Lovely.
Huh, I wonder why I came up in convers—...oh, divorce papers. Lovely.
that sounds like Homura was midway inside the absorption book.She frantically transformed again, calling her shield back to her arm, but even as she did so her back struck a sheet of heavily burnt paper and quickly began sinking into it. It was too late; she had no choice!
Homura gave her shield a full turn, and agony ripped through her. For a moment all she could do was scream, feeling as though she was being torn apart-
And then she was lying on her back in a hospital bed, staring up at a blurry-looking ceiling.
Obviously, our endgame is befriending Madoka. It'll be hard to do so while avoiding Homura and not knowing that we should, but I believe in our ability to stumble into the one thing that could save us!I mean, do we go here again or is the story going to continue in the "abandoned timeline"?
Though when one Madoka ascends, I think they all do, so she'll be disappearing soon as well. And then reality will be rewritten so that witches no longer exist in any universe and.... I'm not sure how this is going to work, actually.
Indeed. Is Sayaka actually Sayaka, per se, or just part of someone else? Are there two Sayakas now? Homura might kill us just for that, once her brain finishes rebooting.hm... so if Ashy managed to tag along, did Sayaka as well? and is she back in her body or still with us?