Appletank
Acquire Cheese
considering Ashy has several souls with her now, do they rewind to their original state, create a clone, or replace the original straight out? Witch Quest never got to answer that question before it died.
Subsumption (PMMM Faux-Quest) (Witch MC)
I think one of the weaknesses of this chapter is that it's too late to set the tone of the overall fic, or even for an effective tone shift (100k words in, holy crap), but there hasn't been enough narrative buildup for this to feel like the climax of anything. We've gotten used to a fic where this kind of thing doesn't happen, and this is an awkward narrative position in which to change things. We expect Mami to have too much plot armor to just witch like that.
I definitely agree with BriefVoice a few pages ago:
The previous chapter has a sort of similar problem. Ashtaroth's egocentricity suddenly becomes really important, but it hasn't been established very well, and it's far too late to start establishing it now. Even the chapter in question doesn't really make the egocentricity thing clear. Maybe these chapters could have used clearer setup, and/or earlier narrative placement. (Man, 100k words.)
I definitely agree with BriefVoice a few pages ago:
in that I don't really know where this fic is going, and that it feels like a serial. Specifically, now that I think about it, it reminds me of one of those really slow-paced, rambly webcomics I used to read, which in turn makes this new development feel a bit like the onset of Cerebus Syndrome. This is pretty late for Cerebus Syndrome to set in, though.
The previous chapter has a sort of similar problem. Ashtaroth's egocentricity suddenly becomes really important, but it hasn't been established very well, and it's far too late to start establishing it now. Even the chapter in question doesn't really make the egocentricity thing clear. Maybe these chapters could have used clearer setup, and/or earlier narrative placement. (Man, 100k words.)
So that happened. I wasn't sure how it was going to end but I doubted it was going to be any good (I mean the events themselves, the chapter itself was enjoyable)
Now the newcomer, I first thought it was Madoka but everybody else is saying Homura.
Now the newcomer, I first thought it was Madoka but everybody else is saying Homura.
At least now we have Tira as an option of diplomancing too.... but even if it worked just wait until Homura learns how Astaroth asked Madoka to make a wish.
- Location
- UK
Well that won't be so bad, all Homura has to do is explain that, due to Madoka's extremely high potential, which we know of from Kyubey, her becoming a witch would be a minor apocalypse in itself. Homura just has to not jump the gun and do a small bit of... talking and... diplomacy... ah.
I'm beginning to suspect the reason Kyubey only contracts teenage girls is not because of soul properties or anything like that, but simply because there is then almost no chance of them uniting against him
hillo315
Intact but Tactless
- Location
- Somewhere. Somewhere else.
I like the Michaelas in the background.
Yes, she's forming in the barrier. I hope you like tea parties.
Ashy should collect Mami's belongings and move them into her labyrinth. That way, she has an excuse to raid the fridge.
Everyone who lost to Ashy got exactly what they wanted in exactly the way they didn't want it. Saar stopped ruining her beautiful garden, Sayaka rescued Hitomi and healed Kyosuke, Mami's friends won't leave her, and Tira is one step away from minoring in witch psychology. Esoteric happy ending FTW!
That wouldn't sound very reassuring to all the characters who are rapidly dying inside instead of literally dying. Nice try, though.
That would be the best option, yes. Ashy seems to have momentarily forgotten that Sayaka exists.
Ashy does have one advantage over the time traveler: she's unpredictable. Homura is a veteran, but she relies on past knowledge of witches to speedrun her way to victory. She needs to kill Ashy a few times before she gets the hang of it, but she probably hasn't done that yet. It's possible that she learned some crucial information from Madoka and Hitomi, though.
Ashtaroth is a benign witch. Look where that got literally everyone who has appeared so far.
Probably not as deranged as Cecil, but we'll see.
By the way, if Madoka and Hitomi realize that Mami is still alive in some form, they might want to repeat the events of episode 9. Food for thought.
I suppose it's possible for Mami to remember her past, but we don't know this trait to be common in witches. So far we have only one recorded instance of a witch who more or less remembers her life as a magical girl. I'm sure she'll at least retain her personality, though.
While Ashy is woefully unprepared, she probably has a fighting chance? The battlefield is somewhat repaired, Ashy's injuries have completely disappeared, and there are 3 separate reinforcements lazing around.
It wasn't what I saw coming, I'll have you know.
Charlotte is a prepubescent foodie. She never deserved the amount of trust and responsibility she was given.
It's called an object lesson.
In other words, a stabilizing influence.
Yes, that's a great way to phrase it. Ashy stole narrative focus (especially from Madoka), and now she's assimilating the stories themselves.
Yeah, this sounds like a fair assessment. Even though Madoka hasn't experienced or witnessed the horrors of the magical girl system firsthand, her naïveté should be thoroughly dead and buried by now. This means Homura can allow herself to trust Madoka's ideas and decisions to some extent. And Hitomi's experiences too, I suppose.
Huh. Never thought of it that way. Yeah, Ashy isn't introspective enough to realize that her own approach probably would have been much worse than what actually ended up happening, even if Tira had to lose a few limbs.
Eating Tira and tanking Mami's bullets actually sounds quite adorable when you put it like that. "Look, big sis! I turned your mean bullies into cheese!"
Ha! No. I seriously doubt Homura would let Ashy touch Madoka with a 100-meter pole.
"If Walpurgisnacht can do it, so can I! What could go wrong?"
It's presumably supposed to substitute reality. Fitting different labyrinths together into an 11-dimensional jigsaw puzzle is part of that.
But that would be rude. Just give the corpse to its rightful owner and watch as she dresses it up in herself.
"Sorry, transfer student. I'd love to stay and chat, but I've got a ferocious cinnamon roll to headpat."
The protagonist doesn't know how to people because she's stuck in her own head, not because her communication skills are lacking. She is perfectly capable of sounding smarter and more mature than she really is. And just for the record, I would hesitate to call a mental blind spot "stupidity".
To the empty canvas where Ashy's illusions are strongest.
The intruder appeared to teleport, so it's definitely Homura.
Is it wrong that I want to actually try this? Just to see what would happen, I mean.
It's a great idea! Just look at all the other magical girls we've hugged! Tira was downright miserable until we wrapped her up in a soft papery cocoon.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
On one hand your joking, on the other hand it would drag us into timestop if we managed it, buttttttt Trying to eat Homura would be bad and witch instencts are not to be trusted sooo no.
- Location
- Portugal
- Pronouns
- Her Graciousness
Charlotte's gimmick was hilarious. I don't really care much about Tira to be honest so I don't really care she got gat. Maybe she sees more characterization now she's part of the club though.
Mami dying was expected, it was either us or her and it wasn't going to be us. Her fault for going berzerker mode, no sympathy here.
Hopefully Sayaka can convince Homura to spare us, I guess. I'm not seeing any other way around the time wizard.
Wonder if there will be synergy between our painted world and Tira's artistic powers, huh.
Mami dying was expected, it was either us or her and it wasn't going to be us. Her fault for going berzerker mode, no sympathy here.
Hopefully Sayaka can convince Homura to spare us, I guess. I'm not seeing any other way around the time wizard.
Wonder if there will be synergy between our painted world and Tira's artistic powers, huh.
Flairina
Least Omnipotent Goddess
- Location
- The next infinity over
True... and yet, is it? :?
"Inept" probably isn't the right word, but I won't say you're exactly wrong. Ashtaroth's barrier and design are pretty big hints towards the kind of person she was, after all.
It sure would be!
It did probably have some effect, but not an overly large one within the given span of time. Certainly not enough to require a cleansing, at least.
More than I'd really like. Though, part of that is just because I'm writing her, and thus some degree of "slippage" is kind of inevitable.
Eheh... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Don't get too ahead of yourself just yet.
Well... sorry, but this IS Madoka Magica, so there was bound to be some degree of "escalation" eventually. Also, it was really just one bad decision, honestly. Keep in mind that while Ashtaroth may look like a giant book monster, her wisdom is still limited to that of a teenage girl's, and becoming a witch has certainly not improved that.
The most pressing thought on my mind as I read the update was...
NOOOOOO! Not Charlotte!!
...I am glad she's doing better.
Well, her nature is tenacity, remember? She never gives up.
It would be more of a divorce settlement, actually. One where Ashtaroth presumably keeps the house and land, since they're sort of tethered to her.
Like I noted in the AN, probably would have seemed less sudden if I'd managed to split the previous update in two as I'd intended to. ^_^;
Understandable! Do try to hurry though --- things are likely going to keep happening, after all.
These are the kind of comments that make me want to keep chugging along at this no matter how much difficulty I'm having with the next chapter. Thank you both so much!
For a limited definition of "functioning", yes.
*Insert Pikachu face meme here*
More like a piping bag full of icing, really. She's too squishy to be a toothpaste tube. Besides, Charlotte would hate the comparison to something so awful-tasting!
Well, she did just go through four bodies in less than four minutes. Wouldn't you be tired?
"Fine-ish" is certainly an interesting word choice for Homura's likely stance on Ashtaroth.
It's also worth noting that Tira's outfit is primarily an orange-gold color. Kind of like cheddar, actually.
For a moment I misread that as "Hamtaro". Suffice to say, that would be a... very, very different situation.
I hope so too. Though, if you take a moment to consider the likely possibilities of what could happen next based on the end of this chapter, I think you'll find that what's coming is less "written myself into a corner" and more "this was essentially inevitable".
I'd say that was very eloquent actually, and I truly appreciate you taking the time to write all that out. You've made your position quite clear, and it seems perfectly reasonable. Ashtaroth has a problem, and maybe once she realizes it IS a problem she'll get a little better about it, but that's not likely to be an immediate thing, so I can't fault you for wanting to drop this based on your grievances with it. That said, while I'm not going to say anything specific, I would be glad if you decided to give this another few updates, because I don't think this is going in quite the direction you think it is. If you still want to drop it after the next... maybe three chapters or so? Then I'll just say thank you for reading so far into this to begin with.
(Kind of curious what the first best PMMM fanfic you've ever read is now, but that seems a little odd to ask after reading all that, eheh.)
That was the most difficult part of the chapter, honestly. Getting the breaks in the beginning just right so the actions flowed properly and remained intelligible, while still delivering proper impact.
She WAS being pretty wasteful with magic here, but Mami could actually have probably gone for an entire other battle with her magic levels as they were at the end of it... if not for why she was using all that magic to begin with.
Picture the Ekaterina from Stacey's barrier in magireco, then remove the legs and keys, add a propeller to the back of the wrist, and cover it with small vines. That's pretty much a Faas.
She was actually about exactly this persistent. Charlotte goes through roughly five or six bodies in canon before finally dying, so the real problem wasn't that Mami didn't hit her hard enough (because her cannon was DEFINITELY more powerful than homemade pipe bombs), it was that she just didn't keep up the pressure long enough.
It wasn't meant to, but if it coincidentally happens to, feel free to interpret as deliberate.
Doesnt recognise her. Her two forms don't exactly look all that similar to each other, after all.
...when you said "that bizarre cake song", the first thing that came to mind was the lazytown/lil Jon crossover. I was very confused until I clicked on on the link. ^^;
Not to mention that things get significantly more complicated the more people she ends up doing this to, no matter how much her witchstincts seem to enjoy it.
Thanks! The end of the arc is rapidly approaching, so I hope I manage to close it out on a similarly enjoyable note.
I think witch quest DID answer that actually, or at least the author did, by stating outright that there were no duplicates. So, all souls inside Rochelle's barrier when homura looped completely replaced their other selves in the new timeline, without reverting in any way. Or at least, that was my interpretation.
Fair. In all seriousness, I have no idea how it ended up taking me 100000 words and a year and a half to get here (like seriously, how?), but the reason for mami's lack of plot armor should become pretty apparent shortly after the next couple of updates. As for the egocentric thing... yeah, I probably need to make that a little clearer in previous chapters. The problem is, it's difficult to demonstrate that without other characters in the mix, and Ashtaroth has been relatively isolated up until now. She's had Sayaka around, but... well, she doesn't exactly count anymore as someone Ashtaroth would act that way towards, for reasons you can probably intuit based on things that have been mentioned before. I could certainly make it a little more obvious with when she first encounters Hitomi though (probably especially there, in fact), so I'll probably be going back to edit those chapters slightly in short order.
Perhaps Ashtaroth is secretly the monkey's paw witch - no wait I forgot that's actually a thing that exists now. Joke cancelled!
You're getting very close to giving out outright spoilers for something you haven't even read yet, which is honestly quite impressive.
Less a foodie and more a dessert and cheese connossieur, really. Though her definition of cheese tends to extend towards anything remotely yellow/orange/white in her path, so...
This is exactly correct.
"...but then you made me spit it up! That was so MEAN!" *Storms off to pout*
...also, I seriously do need to replace Tira's art. The one in her profile right now was the inspiration for her, but it's kind of out of place next to Sayaka's, and not entirely accurate (need to nix the cane, add a paintbrush head on the back of the pen, make her pants not quite THAT puffy, add color, etc...). I could try to draw her myself, but humans are already not my strength, and complicated outfits are even less so. Anyone have any recommendations for someone I could commission for that?
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- Location
- Earth
Have some Wild Mass Guessing:You're getting very close to giving out outright spoilers for something you haven't even read yet, which is honestly quite impressive.
When Homura tries to rescue Sayaka by including her in the timestop, our little witch does not get timestopped, because Sayaka is a part of her by now. Homura gets subsumed due to the shock of that.
So...like one of those cream cheese tubes?
Also Homura specifically never bothered shooting at Charlotte. Period. She dropped bombs right where Charlotte was doing the chomping, with the bombs detonating in her belly. I suspect the outer skin is too tough and ablative to bother.
As anyone familiar with bombs know, bombs inside a fully enclosed space are the most devastating, because 100% of the yield goes to deforming the enclosure.
Charlotte literally died to a poison pill strategy, which is doubly important because new Charlottes emerge from the mouth. Homura may have killed multiple lives per internal bomb detonation, and Charlotte was incapable of not trying to eat it even if it hurts.
Her Tenacity does not allow her to give up
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- Location
- Tulsa Oklahoma
Well, if you consider witches to be the offspring of Kuebey and the magical girl who made the contract, then it only makes sense that we would have traits from both of our parents. Kuebey also acts like a monkeys paw most of the time, so it is unsurprising that we also have said trait. Other traits we seem to have acquired from said parent is an inability to lie, usually making things worse without our acknowledgement of said fact, our attraction to those with higher karmic potential, and our inability to understand or predict emotional reactions.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
The whole lets go with the option of asking everyone to let us magically influence their thoughts in order to communicate with them instead of just stopping the talks.
We could have just gave into Mami's demand instead of trying to 'diplo'. aka leave.
- Location
- Europe
There was no better option, because do you really think Mami would just have let us go with Sayaka?
- Location
- Sunset City zone
I think if Ashtaroth subsumed Homura, then that would certainly be the case for things she had subsumed as well. Them all waking up with Ashy at the time she turned into a witch, already in the book. But now would time try to keep some consistency and make a duplicate Sayaka, Homura, and anything else that was subsumed?
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Sure, we could have simply left the body behind.
- Location
- Europe
And gotten a vengeful Mami on our ass and as we have already seen we aren't fast enough to escape.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
And yet you instead thought it be a good idea to suggest what could be mind control as a sutible option?
When people mess up, (And the mess up here is utterly clear), it is good to understand why so you wont repeat it.
The problem here is Ashtaroth (SV) chases head first into any chance of 'friends' without seeming to think that it may backfire horrifically.
And I am tired of the, "we picked the best choice everything else was just as bad defense" when the current situation is -everything is on fire-.
The real question is Mami Solo going to be more of a problem then dragging a pissed off Mami as well as Tira?
Propyl not.
- Location
- Europe
It's true though. Even your not stupid choice was to make Mami and co think we killed Sayaka. Yeah, personally I think that would have pissed off everyone even more.
Also your plan is dependent on the 'not stupid' choice of letting her into our barrier, which was winning by votes, not happening.
This frankly comes across as people calling a decision stupid in hindsight while at the moment it was happening nobody had a better idea.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
On the other hand Mami gave us the perfect out to the meeting by simply leaving, and she would have be the princable alienator of everyone else in said meeting.
Instead...
…
A witches kiss generally drives people to suicided. I CANNOT THINK of a worse suggestion to make to a vet magical girl to calm her down.