What should your focus for the rest of the Quest be?


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Actually here is a question @HeroCooky. Every time we colonize it takes choirs right? Cause each planet has its own communication or some such? Is the range system to system or like the choir can send one message anywhere sorta deal? As it stands that is
It is a system-system web of mail. Choir Q gets a message meant for Choir D, so they pass it along the line to Choir P with a note that the message is for Choir D, which then does the same until the message reaches its destination.

You also have a messaging/mail system with Federation Post acting as a Pony Express expy for you.
 
-[] SBG 0/2.5, because they told us to.
I agree with the people below that it's probably better to take the [] Build a Fleet action here, since the Kil'drabi bonus is at 36 and caps out at 40, so we should do it this turn or next turn. Also, then we can build ships not currently part of our SBGs.

Basically I'm saying that new ship types will present novel tactics that will save us more ships than we would get for a single SBG action.

I'm thinking a bunch of Sagittariuses and some of the Loyalty's Bloom class that we wouldn't have otherwise. Maybe 2 more Taurus's to be able to invade with our entire ground force at once.

Technically, they told us to create reinforcement ships, so I wonder whether a "Construct a fleet" action wouldn't be better?

Honestly, might be wise to form a Dedicated Fighting Force for this campaign as well. We've got a lot of good tools to throw in here, but having a strike force fit for purpose would likely reduce our losses considerably.
This, very much this. I'm thinking that our forces would be aided dramatically by like 20 Loyalty's Bloom destroyers which can be one hell of a stealthed alpha strike, as well as a few more Sagitarriuses to actually give us a long-ranged component to guarantee kills against priority targets. For example, those Flyssa psytech ships that seem to be the foundation of van Zandt navel doctrine.
 
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It is a system-system web of mail. Choir Q gets a message meant for Choir D, so they pass it along the line to Choir P with a note that the message is for Choir D, which then does the same until the message reaches its destination.

You also have a messaging/mail system with Federation Post acting as a Pony Express expy for you.
Hmm. Okay I see the upgrade tree to it then. Cause from there it could scale up to one choir having being able to send messages 2 systems or more over. Or even working on a subsector basis(at least the smaller ones) with the highest tier being like subsector level to sector level communications.
 
I agree with the people below that it's probably better to take the [] Build a Fleet action here, since the Kil'drabi bonus is at 36 and caps out at 40, so we should do it this turn or next turn. Also, then we can build ships not currently part of our SBGs.

Basically I'm saying that new ship types will present novel tactics that will save us more ships than we would get for a single SBG action.

I'm thinking a bunch of Sagittariuses and some of the Loyalty's Bloom class that we wouldn't have otherwise. Maybe 2 more Taurus's to be able to invade with our entire ground force at once.

I did the math and I don't think it's equal (that is to say, we won't get 1 SBG worth of progress, or at most we'll save, like, 1 FP even with Kil'drabi at 40), and you also really, really don't seem to understand the math involved? Like, the point of doing an SBG this turn and next turn is so that during the Emergency turn we can dump TWO SBGs with just three actions onto a foundering situation, and then use the Build a Fleet action to plug the holes in the SBGs or fleet that we have.
 
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What I CAN do is this...

[] Plan: ALL IN, Part 2: The Turn
-[] Evacuation Fleets - (1/4)
-[] [Psykana] Sing a Song (Choose at least Three below.)
--[] Struggle, Fire, Humanity, Unity, Hope, Song
-[] Megafreighter Infiltration 1
-[] [Military] Fill Out Sector Battle Group
--[] Basilisk (0/2.5)
-[] Switch Automatic Production to Loyalty's Bloom Scout Destroyers


This'll get us a decent crop of Loyalty's Bloom without fucking us over out of the belief that... an SBG isn't a powerful portion of fleet might?
 
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and you also really, really don't seem to understand the math involved?
Hey. Let's be kind. I understand your proposal. I also think we can do the same with a single action next turn and then 4 actions on the first emergency turn.

My argument is that we can special build ships to counter what they have the way @Alectai suggested. And now I'm trying to come up with what that is.

This'll get us a decent crop of Loyalty's Bloom without fucking us over out of the belief that... an SBG isn't a powerful portion of fleet might?
Hmm. It's not that SBGs aren't powerful. We built them to be as strong as possible. But they're straightforward. They're strength against strength. We take losses to inflict losses in a somewhat balanced way (actually unbalanced because 2d6 vs. 3d6...)

But if we build a bunch (like 30) Loyalty's Bloom and send them in ahead of the fleet they might snipe every single ship bigger than a destroyer in the first attack. Or 8 Saggitarius's can coordinate fire to one-shot the Flyssa destroyers. The point is to create tools that might have an outsized impact on the first engagement.

They won't replace the fleet, but we have a fleet. Now I want it to have a few tricks.

It's a risk, and it's one I'm arguing for because the benefits are outsized compared to the risk (which is mostly that we build a bunch of ships that don't help a ton with this engagement instead of reinforcements for the next engagement.)
 
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Also, I don't feel like I understand how many actions we have left. Do we need to do the Voxx revolution action next turn or the turn after?
 
Hey. Let's be kind. I understand your proposal. I also think we can do the same with a single action next turn and then 4 actions on the first emergency turn.

My argument is that we can special build ships to counter what they have the way @Alectai suggested. And now I'm trying to come up with what that is.


Hmm. It's not that SBGs aren't powerful. We built them to be as strong as possible. But they're straightforward. They're strength against strength. We take losses to inflict losses in a somewhat balanced way (actually unbalanced because 2d6 vs. 3d6...)

But if we build a bunch (like 30) Loyalty's Bloom and send them in ahead of the fleet they might snipe every single ship bigger than a destroyer in the first attack. Or 8 Saggitarius's can coordinate fire to one-shot the Flyssa destroyers. The point is to create tools that might have an outsized impact on the first engagement.

They won't replace the fleet, but we have a fleet. Now I want it to have a few tricks.

It's a risk, and it's one I'm arguing for because the benefits are outsized compared to the risk (which is mostly that we build a bunch of ships that don't help a ton with this engagement instead of reinforcements for the next engagement.)

Relying on a trick like that feels like it's also risking a single bad roll making it pointless. And I should remind you, once again:

"We also recommend working on additional reinforcements to our already existing System Battle Groups should be started to ensure that any losses incurred during the Voxxian Liberations can be paved with fresh ships ready to fill the gaps before the wounded SBGs are reinforced.

We are in a situation where the QM has all but told us that we'll be facing ship shortfalls in the follow-up as our SBGs take losses, and then, seeing this...

I responded by going, "Hey, maybe we should save the special Build Fleet action with Kil'drabi bonuses for filling in the SBGs lost" and also "Hey, y'know what would be good? Being ready to dump some more SBGs in order to hold the line as the war continues?"
 
You have this Turn (4), next Turn (3), and the Turn after where you need to trigger the Revolution (2/3), so you have 9 Actions left.
OH! Ok. That's one more turn than I was envisioning! I'm fine with this plan, though I think it would also be great to do the song of grounding this turn
Bubble Against Power - Grounding, Home, Protection
to have our choirs counter their psytech. In that case we'd do 2x civ fleet actions next turn, 1x fleet build action (maybe below), then on the turn we launch we do 2x fleet build actions to be able to spit out 2x SBGs the first turn of the emergency with 3 actions.

So let's delay the [] Build Ships action to next turn so that we get the full 40 extra build. Here's my proposed build order for next turn. There's one Taurus here because by my count we have 63 total troops for deployment between SAGs and Knights, and only 58 capacity.
[] [Military] [Construct/Refit] A Fleet - [48 Fleet Points] - [40 FP Banked]
-24x Loyalty's Bloom-Class Scout Destroyer (48 FP)
-Taurus-Secundus (Taurus-S) Troopship (4 FP)
-9x Sagitarrius-Secundus (Sagitarrius-S) Lance Frigate (36 FP)

@HeroCooky If it's not too much to ask, can I ask for the results of the FleetCom simulations (with every Libra now having a strategium!) that I'm sure our fleet commanders are running with and without these new ships? I want to know if they expect them to make an impact or would prefer to just have another SBG partially-built. Specifically, I want to hear if K-534 calls this idiotic, inspired or meh.
 
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You have this Turn (4), next Turn (3), and the Turn after where you need to trigger the Revolution (2/3), so you have 9 Actions left.
Hmm, I have an idea. Next turn we could bumrush Civ XV. Might be our last shot at getting it before we get hit with a hard reset, so we rush that then the turn after we finish up the Civillian Fleet the turn we start the Revolution.
 
Next turn we have 1 SBG to do, 1 Civ Fleet (to get to 3/4), and the Megafreighter Infiltration (to get to 2/2 in the last possible turn we can).

That's literally all of our actions. What are you going to short-change? Our fleets, the Relief Efforts, or not killing literally everyone on Voxx Primus?
 
Next turn we have 1 SBG to do, 1 Civ Fleet (to get to 3/4), and the Megafreighter Infiltration (to get to 2/2 in the last possible turn we can).

That's literally all of our actions. What are you going to short-change? Our fleets, the Relief Efforts, or not killing literally everyone on Voxx Primus?
We already have 5 SBGs, the minimum needed to stand a chance if we don't play dirty (and we're playing hella dirty here). And that Civ XV milestone could really help us out a lot.
 
[] Plan: ALL IN, Part 2: The Turn
-[] Evacuation Fleets - (1/4)
-[] [Psykana] Sing a Song (Choose at least Three below.)
--[] Struggle, Fire, Humanity, Unity, Hope, Song
-[] [Megafreighter] Infiltration will be a slow and careful process, but between the influence on Voxx Primus and Secondus and the Defense Stations, there are a lot of chances for connections and bonds to form, clans to intermingle, and in this opportunities to begin to infiltrate the Freighters. At this point, focus on getting people into all the key positions. Intelligence, let alone taking control of the ship, can wait until we're more fully established.
-[] [Military] Fill Out Sector Battle Group
--[] Basilisk (0/2.5)
-[] Switch Automatic Production to Loyalty's Bloom Scout Destroyers


We already have 5 SBGs, the minimum needed to stand a chance if we don't play dirty (and we're playing hella dirty here). And that Civ XV milestone could really help us out a lot.

We've been told we need to start building new ships for the follow up. Like EXPLICITLY TOLD.

We could do the plan where we make 24x ships with a very specific gimmick going for them that we have to hope work because we're going all-in on them rather than things that will directly help us... or we could, y'know, not do that either.
 
Next turn we have 1 SBG to do, 1 Civ Fleet (to get to 3/4), and the Megafreighter Infiltration (to get to 2/2 in the last possible turn we can).

That's literally all of our actions. What are you going to short-change? Our fleets, the Relief Efforts, or not killing literally everyone on Voxx Primus?
Can I ask for a tiny amount of grace here? We're both coming from reasonable places, and I would like to try and identify the places where our assumptions differ.

I think, with your additional post, it comes down to if we want to do megafreighter 2/2 or not. We can write-in Megafreighter #1 to be aimed towards making sure they don't blow themselves up. Then I'm pretty sure that we can just detach some Lamenters to secure the ships and call it good. @HeroCooky That was my impression from your posts when we were discussing the megafreighter infiltration yesterday. Was that correct?

Here's my proposal if that's true.
This turn: [] Plan: ALL IN, Part 2: The Turn as you've written it, Potentially swapping the megafreighter write-in to focus on infiltrating engineers to prevent any self-destruct of the freighters when the Lamenters board. Evac at 2/4, Basilisk at 1/2.5
Next turn: Evac 3/4, My build action, Basilisk 2/2.5
Turn After: REVOLUTION, Evac 4/4, Basilisk done.
Emergency 1: 4 actions to build 2 SBGs.

Here's my proposal if that's not true:
This turn: [] Plan: ALL IN, Part 2: The Turn as you've written it, Megafreighter 1/2, Evac at 2/4, Basilisk at 1/2.5
Next turn: Evac 3/4, My build action, Megafreighter 2/2.
Turn After: REVOLUTION, Evac 4/4, Basilisk 2/2.5
Emergency 1: 3 actions to finish Basilisk + one additional SBG.

Your plan is also reasonable, but I would like to hear the QM give feedback on these alternates, since I think my first overall plan has several significant upsides to it.

Finally, I don't like the idea of saving the Kil'drabi points to reinforce SBGs. It's more action efficient to just... build more SBGs. Besides, so long as we win, most of our ships are reparable (I'm thinking the Lattice Hulls on all of our frontliners).
 
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I wonder if we can send like false messages to the effect of "GTFO Revolution is lost" to trick the Duchy into thinking we are abandoning the project. A sort of "We have been exposed. We need to leave" false flag. I don't know if we can do it or if it's even possible but it might buy more prep time...if nothing else.
 
Can I ask for a tiny amount of grace here? We're both coming from reasonable places, and I would like to try and identify the places where our assumptions differ.

I think, with your additional post, it comes down to if we want to do megafreighter 2/2 or not. We can write-in Megafreighter #1 to be aimed towards making sure they don't blow themselves up. Then I'm pretty sure that we can just detach some Lamenters to secure the ships and call it good. @HeroCooky That was my impression from your posts when we were discussing the megafreighter infiltration yesterday. Was that correct?

Here's my proposal if that's true.
This turn: [] Plan: ALL IN, Part 2: The Turn as you've written it, Potentially swapping the megafreighter write-in to focus on infiltrating engineers to prevent any self-destruct of the freighters when the Lamenters board. Evac at 2/4, Basilisk at 1/2.5
Next turn: Evac 3/4, My build action, Basilisk 2/2.5
Turn After: REVOLUTION, Evac 3/4, Basilisk done.
Emergency 1: 4 actions to build 2 SBGs.

Here's my proposal if that's not true:
This turn: [] Plan: ALL IN, Part 2: The Turn as you've written it, Megafreighter 1/2, Evac at 2/4, Basilisk at 1/2.5
Next turn: Evac 3/4, My build action, Megafreighter 2/2.
Turn After: REVOLUTION, Evac 3/4, Basilisk 2/2.5
Emergency 1: 3 actions to finish Basilisk + one additional SBG.

Your plan is also reasonable, but I would like to hear the QM give feedback on these alternates, since I think my first overall plan has several significant upsides to it.

Finally, I don't like the idea of saving the Kil'drabi action to reinforce SBGs. It's more action efficient to just... build more SBGs. Besides, so long as we win, most of our ships are reparable (I'm thinking the Lattice Hulls on all of our frontliners).

Okay let me be clear here on my assumption. The new ships we have are very neat, but they're the definition of a one trick pony. They dump all of their missiles in very, very rapid order with their traits and then are basically just sitting ducks. It's an impressive trick, and it's worth having in some quantity.

But building 24x of them is just... ABSURD? It'll be an impressive enough Alpha-strike followed by an incredibly high casualty rate.

I legitimately just don't think it's a good idea. We could use a few more of 'em, sure, but they're being treated as more valuable than being able to produce SBGs and fill in the gaps of our wounded SBGs during a WAR[1]. That's... REALLY fucking valuable.

[1] Because if we use up the Kil'drabi bonus here, we won't have it to replace all the ships we lose from our SBGs from them, y'know, doing their jobs!
 
@HeroCooky I don't believe anyone has asked about these yet, and I'm really curious:

Struggle Struggle Struggle Struggle Struggle
Struggle Death Struggle Death Struggle
Struggle Justice Struggle Justice Struggle

Justice and Death both have fairly similar themes from how their descriptions read, but obviously the vibe is quite different.
 
I'd also like to remind everyone that delaying the Civ Evac ships for a single turn past the revolution was always the desperation move that we were reluctantly going to have to accept because we had no other choice and we could sorta-kinda tighten our belts for.

Now that we have, y'know, a choice we should avoid doing so?
 
Okay let me be clear here on my assumption. The new ships we have are very neat, but they're the definition of a one trick pony. They dump all of their missiles in very, very rapid order with their traits and then are basically just sitting ducks. It's an impressive trick, and it's worth having in some quantity.
Yeah, pretty much this. Before now, we couldn't afford a one-trick pony, because we didn't have the fleet to back it up. Now we do, so we can afford hyper-specialized tools.

Would you feel differently if it was just 21 Sagitarrius's? Sitting in our backline, coordinating shots with the Libra's to hit priority targets? That feels like a solid DPS increase to our fleet that's different in kind enough to cover a weakness of ours.

But building 24x of them is just... ABSURD? It'll be an impressive enough Alpha-strike followed by an incredibly high casualty rate.
True - but I think there's a chance that the alpha strike is so impressive it saves us nearly a whole SBG's worth of casualties. They're the fastest possible ships we have, so they won't all die. Or, you know, our admirals can be smart enough to have them sneak up behind the enemy and fire off all their missiles at the enemy backline 1/4 of the way into the battle.

I legitimately just don't think it's a good idea. We could use a few more of 'em, sure, but they're being treated as more valuable than being able to produce SBGs and fill in the gaps of our wounded SBGs during a WAR[1]. That's... REALLY fucking valuable.

[1] Because if we use up the Kil'drabi bonus here, we won't have it to replace all the ships we lose from our SBGs from them, y'know, doing their jobs!
Yeah, honestly fair. I think I'm waiting for QM feedback on this idea, and if it's not positive I'll abandon it. But it's worth exploring!

I'm also not clear on using the Kil'drabi bonus on SBGs - that seems silly when the whole point of SBGs is we get more efficient at building them. Is using the build action the best way to patch holes in them? It almost seems better/more efficient to just build a whole new SBG.

I'd also like to remind everyone that delaying the Civ Evac ships for a single turn past the revolution was always the desperation move that we were reluctantly going to have to accept because we had no other choice and we could sorta-kinda tighten our belts for.

Now that we have, y'know, a choice we should avoid doing so?
Ah. This... is a strong argument. Hmm. I'd be down for this as well.
 
Ideally if we've actually built them well, each SBG should be its own complete unit. That is to say, each piece of the SBG works to reinforce and protect the others (or two SBGs doing the same in one bigger fleet writ large). Therefore, it should be the case that a gap in an SBG might make it less effective not merely in a subtractive sense, but in a dividing sense, making it so that any one particular formation doesn't have enough Carriers to provide a good screen, or enough Heavies to go into the battle fists raised, or... you get the drift.

Now, is this the case for our SBGs? I'm not sure, if it isn't then we've built them badly.
 
Ideally if we've actually built them well, each SBG should be its own complete unit. That is to say, each piece of the SBG works to reinforce and protect the others (or two SBGs doing the same in one bigger fleet writ large). Therefore, it should be the case that a gap in an SBG might make it less effective not merely in a subtractive sense, but in a dividing sense, making it so that any one particular formation doesn't have enough Carriers to provide a good screen, or enough Heavies to go into the battle fists raised, or... you get the drift.

Now, is this the case for our SBGs? I'm not sure, if it isn't then we've built them badly.
I think it's inarguable that we could improve the SBGs, if nothing else because we have new ships we didn't have when they were designed. Specifically, the Saggitarius and the Loyalty's bloom, adding like 6 of each would round out the SAGs with powerful new capabilities. Then we can design some specialty versions to fight other foes like Orcs or Drukhari, as well as an infiltration/sabotage version for producing Chameleons, Lupus' and the Loyalty's Bloom, and a civilian aid version to canonize our existing Hive Aid fleet for the next time we can do that.

Though by the point we get there I'm expecting a single Hive Aid fleet to cost 1 action instead of 4.
 
@HeroCooky If it's not too much to ask, can I ask for the results of the FleetCom simulations (with every Libra now having a strategium!) that I'm sure our fleet commanders are running with and without these new ships? I want to know if they expect them to make an impact or would prefer to just have another SBG partially-built. Specifically, I want to hear if K-534 calls this idiotic, inspired or meh.
For the purpose of Voxx Primus (and Free Duchy), they are, possibly, the worst kind of ship to have. They rely on stealth to get close, mag-dump their munitions, then GTFO ASAP. The Voxxian SDF is...not in a position where you could stealthily approach with ~30 ships and not get detected by conventional means.

Not to speak about their Harrowayd Auspex Array. Which no-sells that tactic.
@HeroCooky That was my impression from your posts when we were discussing the megafreighter infiltration yesterday. Was that correct?
If the Lamenters join you *coughcoughwinkwinkcoughcough* doing as you say could work.
Struggle Struggle Struggle Struggle Struggle
Struggle Death Struggle Death Struggle
Struggle Justice Struggle Justice Struggle
Monday On 3 Hours Of Sleep And Late Public Transit
Rise With The Inevitable Already Enforced
A Bloody Scale Cares Not Who Wields It
 
Ideally if we've actually built them well, each SBG should be its own complete unit. That is to say, each piece of the SBG works to reinforce and protect the others (or two SBGs doing the same in one bigger fleet writ large). Therefore, it should be the case that a gap in an SBG might make it less effective not merely in a subtractive sense, but in a dividing sense, making it so that any one particular formation doesn't have enough Carriers to provide a good screen, or enough Heavies to go into the battle fists raised, or... you get the drift.

I agree, which is why I've mentioned several times that when we have the freedom (which we won't until after Vox kicks off) I think we should use a Ship Construction Action to bring SBG Werewolf back into line with our other SBGs linup-wise by replacing it's 4 Sagittarius Frigates with Cruxs, and spilt the Sagis off into independent artillery-formations with a dedicated attached Andromeda for transport. We can't do it now, but if they survive I feel like it'd be a good thing to do.

I'd also like to replace SBG Werewolf's lone Lupus just cause it's probably going to die while operating on its own as it is, but...

...actually, could we make 1 of our auto-build Destroyers this turn an Aries and swap it into Werewolf in place of that lone Lupus, just so that it's back in line with our established doctrinal lineup for our SBGs?

Also what the fuck is an Endevour-class Light Cruiser and why do our new SBGs both have two of them in place of Scorpios???

Edit: Jebus Chrimbs Centaur has a pair two!
 
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