What should your focus for the rest of the Quest be?


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[X] Plan Vox Damage Control and Restructuring, The Laurent Alternative Version v2
[X] You did not give us the information we should have had about how the Van Zandt Free Duchy operates, despite the Actions and Write-Ins we made.

Normally, I'd wave this off and say, 'no harm, no foul,' but this is the third(?) of such incidents where miscommunication/lack of information (and to be fair this is coming from both players and the QM; assumptions and all that) has led to the players making a preventable error/oversight in our voting. And this one actually has long term reprecussions beyond the single turn setback we had this turn. Its my personal opinion that a mulligan is warranted. This time at least.
 
Not sure why everyone's acting like QM is hiding shit from us, dude's been pretty open to us about much of the quest stuff, bro even gave us our pseudo astronomicon and Astro path songs for free (the knowledge of how to make them that is).

Honestly we should've expected for the Zandts to have their own Inquisition lurking around. And given the setting, should've known they'd hit us like a train.

My own perspective is basically that our people learning literally nothing about them in two centuries doesn't actually makes sense, and seems more a punishment for the voters assuming that they're just the regular ol' Imperium... because we weren't told anything indicating otherwise.

I'm not going to bother voting for a do-over, because what's done is done, but it's legitimately a case where I think the QM hid vital information that we would have access to. It's just better to do things differently going forward and make sure to constantly ask every single possible question every turn or every other turn. It is what it is.
 
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Not sure why everyone's acting like QM is hiding shit from us, dude's been pretty open to us about much of the quest stuff, bro even gave us our pseudo astronomicon and Astro path songs for free (the knowledge of how to make them that is).

Honestly we should've expected for the Zandts to have their own Inquisition lurking around. And given the setting, should've known they'd hit us like a train.
Because they were. Not taking a magic BB instead of a write-in made the Voxx program set up for an ever growing failure. The mission being doomed to fail happened IRL months ago, we're just only now leaning after having dumped more precious actions into it.

Also, people getting free of the Imperium has… basically never worked out well, especially with a society cut off from the sole source of stable psychic abilities. Van Zandt are basically breaking the mold when even more advanced political systems from the Golden Age of Technology would have collapsed or been consumed by Rogue Psykers under the same conditions. That's just one of their handful of Hax Abilities.
 
Because they were. Not taking a magic BB instead of a write-in made the Voxx program set up for an ever growing failure. The mission being doomed to fail happened IRL months ago, we're just only now leaning after having dumped more precious actions into it.
That was on us though. We jumped the gun on Voxx and then got lost in the sauce by sticking to the underhive instead of pushing upwards.
 
That was on us though. We jumped the gun on Voxx and then got lost in the sauce by sticking to the underhive instead of pushing upwards.

Again, while our people for two centuries apparently noticed no details about them of the kind that would trivially be gained even from just watching their stupid Propaganda.

As I said, it's too late and we just need to move forward, but I don't think it was handled as well as would be ideal.
 
The ability to fake a victory is dependent on knowing what the enemy knows and how their information processing organization and culture works. The very key thing we apparently only had a single never-noted shot to have before everything became shoveling good money after bad.

Basically, your reaction to bad information is to make even more sketchy assumptions. That's kinda… not viable.
It's a gamble.

But is it worse than taking actions we know won't work?
Also, I'm not sure we'll have the data we need to resolve this problem even after we do next turn.

The leading vote takes a "wait and see" approach, but it does a lot more waiting than it does seeing.
I know I wrote the questions, but those just provide a general background, not a focused search for a way out of this mess.
 
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Again, while our people for two centuries apparently noticed no details about them of the kind that would trivially be gained even from just watching their stupid Propaganda.
We were in the underhive and the wastes. I don't think the people there would know jack shit nor care about whats happening higher in the hives.

Our mistake was not pushing up. This would probably not be happening if we had a precense in the Hives proper.
 
We were in the underhive and the wastes. I don't think the people there would know jack shit nor care about whats happening higher in the hives.

Our mistake was not pushing up. This would probably not be happening if we had a precense in the Hives proper.

Propaganda of that sort is... trivially viewable? We trusted that the actual experts we trained in this would not, by sheer magic, close their ears and not even listen to news, rumors, or propaganda.
 
Propaganda of that sort is... trivially viewable? We trusted that the actual experts we trained in this would not, by sheer magic, close their ears and not even listen to news, rumors, or propaganda.
Again, we were in the underhive. You know, that lawless place that is outside the control of the hive itself. Where would they be getting their news from?

Also, why would there be news in the first place for the lower hive? You are looking at it from a modern perspective. The only thing that would sound from a speaker in the lower hive is probably religious sermons.
 
Again, we were in the underhive. You know, that lawless place that is outside the control of the hive itself. Where would they be getting their news from?

Also, why would there be news in the first place for the lower hive? You are looking at it from a modern perspective. The only thing that would sound from a speaker in the lower hive is probably religious sermons.

...we apparently didn't even get information about that?

Like, again, what I trusted was that the people who are flagged as experts would, as a matter of course, do the sorts of basic investigations that are basically required for a revolutionary in a new environment.

Instead it turned out we had to explicitly tell them to do their jobs or else they wouldn't do them! Instead we know nothing about the Duchy, even religious stuff or things that WOULD be evident even if our people closed their eyes and ears.

This is frustrating and stupid, but we'll just have to know from now on not to trust anything we don't overthink and ask the QM about at least once a turn.
 
...we apparently didn't even get information about that?
I though that was obvious? This is a Hive world, not a cyberpunk setting. Information distribution is more akin to medieval settings than the modern day.

Like, again, what I trusted was that the people who are flagged as experts would, as a matter of course, do the sorts of basic investigations that are basically required for a revolutionary in a new environment.
We told them to focus on the underhive, so they focused on the underhive. We never told them to establish a precense higher up, so they didn't.
 
Propaganda is send to the people not to the abandoned places nobady gives f about.
Yeah, the thing about the Underhive is that it's a fucking hellhole controlled by gangers that contributes almost nothing to the Hive proper other than a place to dump their garbage with practically zero government authority. Like, I'm pretty sure that at least half the people down there still think they're part of the Imperium and have no idea who the fuck the Van Zandt Dynasty is.
 
Please cut this discussion. I am working on the update and the Intelligence Report as we write/read, and I'd rather not have people get more upset than they already are. And if you need someone to blame, please remember that I am the one that actually needs to write the story. I obviously made several large mistakes, let's focus on how to avoid that in the future.


Edit: Locking thread to write the update.
 
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I expect that we're probably going to see about trying to set up more Divisions or Offices in the future with the intent of offloading the maintenance of certain actions or projects onto them.

An Office of "Colonization, Aerospace, and Terraforming Services"* (C.A.T.S.) might be able to get the ball rolling on setting up Colonies, Space Stations, or paying for Terraforming services (or with enough investment, two at once!) without direct actions spent, as an example.

An Office of "Procurement of Utility Particulars Promptly"* (P.U.P.PY) might also tick away at some of our Weapons or Armor Trials as well possibly some of our Vehicle things if and when we get them.

*Names subject to change if anyone else can come up with more fun backronyms.

Reposting vote because of SV nonsense

[X] The Laurent
 
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[X] We made legitimate mistakes in going at and about the infiltration of Voxx Primus. We will live and adapt.

[X] Plan Vox Damage Control and Restructuring, The Laurent Alternative Version v2
 
Please cut this discussion. I am working on the update and the Intelligence Report as we write/read, and I'd rather not have people get more upset than they already are. And if you need someone to blame, please remember that I am the one that actually needs to write the story. I obviously made several large mistakes, let's focus on how to avoid that in the future.
Will drop it, but gonna note: That you made "several large mistakes" is a strongly disputed claim.



re-voting because forum suddenly says a vote is required:
[X] We made legitimate mistakes in going at and about the infiltration of Voxx Primus. We will live and adapt.
[X] Stay the Course, Distract the Monster
[X] Stay the Course, distract the Monster, Shakey version
 
Will drop it, but gonna note: That you made "several large mistakes" is a strongly disputed claim.



re-voting because forum suddenly says a vote is required:
[X] We made legitimate mistakes in going at and about the infiltration of Voxx Primus. We will live and adapt.
[X] Stay the Course, Distract the Monster
[X] Stay the Course, distract the Monster, Shakey version

[X] Plan Vox Damage Control and Restructuring, The Laurent Alternative Version v2
-[X] [Military] Militarize The Schools Of Paladins
-[X] [Psykana] Sing a Song
--[X] Silence, Protection, Grounding, Perception
-[X] [Other] Vox Primus Infiltration: Events on Vox Prime have shifted the dynamic rapidly, and as such the servants of the Star Child mush shift in response. Alongside this newest batch of supplies, as well as the Templars coming online, new orders will be relayed: now is a time for retrenchment and scaling back operations. Expansion is to cease, and if done carefully, retraction of territory or even factories is to be done, with any decrease in factory land or agriculture to be matched so as to not lead to shortages and etc. Discretion and the new Song is to be used, and a focus is to be shifted for the moment towards sending personnel and material to begin to infiltrate other levels of the Hive-Cities to establish a functional intelligence network to learn more about both how everything on Vox Primus functions and hopefully more about the history and current state of the Van Zandt Duchy as a civilization. These Intelligence Networks are to take all efforts to avoid exposing themselves-converting others to the Star Child's Light should only be undertaken if operatives are 100% certain that doing so will not jeopardize the network.
--[X] A list of questions we expect answers to, given a decade to ask, are to at the VERY least, the following points as seen here.
--[X] Furthermore, greater caution and internal security and defensiveness is to be exercised in order to prevent sabotage in the future. All security systems are to be updated, tests are to be utilized for moles, watches or so on to be put in place, etc, etc. Literally everything any spy has ever done to prevent infiltration and subversion.
--[X] Before and during enacting it ask for both local (Voxx Primus) advice, advice from the other side from Cerberus, and School of Paladins advice among other things, changing ANY of the previous sections and adding anything that a general consensus of relevant experts would argue would be helpful for achieving the basic and fundamental goals outlined here.
-[X] [Free] Audit the School of Paladins to identify limitations of its scope or flaws in the teaching/etc.

Worried about a major, SV-breaking bug, I ran it all the way up to the Staff where we spent ten minutes bothering over it, and it's not a problem.

It's apparently a setting QMs can activate that does not allow discussion without voting, and @HeroCooky has activated/checked it.
 
Vote closed
Scheduled vote count started by HeroCooky on Jun 30, 2024 at 12:21 PM, finished with 77 posts and 28 votes.

  • [X] Plan Vox Damage Control and Restructuring, The Laurent Alternative Version v2
    -[X] [Military] Militarize The Schools Of Paladins
    -[X] [Psykana] Sing a Song
    --[X] Silence, Protection, Grounding, Perception
    -[X] [Other] Vox Primus Infiltration: Events on Vox Prime have shifted the dynamic rapidly, and as such the servants of the Star Child mush shift in response. Alongside this newest batch of supplies, as well as the Templars coming online, new orders will be relayed: now is a time for retrenchment and scaling back operations. Expansion is to cease, and if done carefully, retraction of territory or even factories is to be done, with any decrease in factory land or agriculture to be matched so as to not lead to shortages and etc. Discretion and the new Song is to be used, and a focus is to be shifted for the moment towards sending personnel and material to begin to infiltrate other levels of the Hive-Cities to establish a functional intelligence network to learn more about both how everything on Vox Primus functions and hopefully more about the history and current state of the Van Zandt Duchy as a civilization. These Intelligence Networks are to take all efforts to avoid exposing themselves-converting others to the Star Child's Light should only be undertaken if operatives are 100% certain that doing so will not jeopardize the network.
    --[X] A list of questions we expect answers to, given a decade to ask, are to at the VERY least, the following points as seen here.
    --[X] Furthermore, greater caution and internal security and defensiveness is to be exercised in order to prevent sabotage in the future. All security systems are to be updated, tests are to be utilized for moles, watches or so on to be put in place, etc, etc. Literally everything any spy has ever done to prevent infiltration and subversion.
    --[X] Before and during enacting it ask for both local (Voxx Primus) advice, advice from the other side from Cerberus, and School of Paladins advice among other things, changing ANY of the previous sections and adding anything that a general consensus of relevant experts would argue would be helpful for achieving the basic and fundamental goals outlined here.
    -[X] [Free] Audit the School of Paladins to identify limitations of its scope or flaws in the teaching/etc.
    [X] We made legitimate mistakes in going at and about the infiltration of Voxx Primus. We will live and adapt.
    [X] Stay the Course, Distract the Monster
    [X] You did not give us the information we should have had about how the Van Zandt Free Duchy operates, despite the Actions and Write-Ins we made.
    [X] Stay the Course, distract the Monster, Shakey version
    [X] Plan Voxx takes up to many Actions
    -[X] [General] Propaganda For The Foreign Masses (1/3) x2
    --[X] Prepare Voxx Primus for an uprising in 170 (17) Turns
    -[X] [General] Terraform (Maphara)
 
771.M42 - Van Zandt Free Duchy Intelligence Report
Van Zandt Free Duchy Intelligence Report
1) Basic Economics
1.a) Trade

The Voxx Primus Planetary Trading Ring receives and ships, on average and per year, around 20-28.000.000.000 tons of cargo, the vast majority (>60%) of which consists of food imports from Voxx Secundus. The rest consists of ores and produced goods being shipped into the system before being shipped out. A total of 248 individual freighters and transport ships have been counted, with the majority (181 freighters) no smaller than 3 kilometers in length, with the most common classes being the "John Bachmeyer Class Tanker/Freighter."

Around ~200 of these freighters transport ores into the system before delivering cargo, either people or manufactured goods, out of the system.

The vessels 'Trusty Delivery,' 'On-Time Hallowed Foods,' and 'Bulk Discounts Need Not Apply' are outliers by stretching to 17, 19, and 25 kilometers in length in order of listing. These three ships are the primary deliverers of the food required by Voxx Primus and have been noted as specialty-build University-Class Mass Conveyors, with their arrival being celebrated by a planetary Hour Of Rest to celebrate the successful delivery of another batch of vital food for the Hives and Hivers of the planet.

1.b) Shipbuilding
In total, 43 different ship classes were encountered within the Voxx Primus system, of which only 11 were singular specialty builds. Of the known and discovered ship classes, 12 were of a military nature, of which 4 were not within the pre-Candle Keeper databases. On average, a new ship class seems to be built every fifty years, with only one military design being laid down sixty years ago before being abandoned and converted into a freighter for unknown reasons.

Due to the long-term subversion of Voxx Primus, it is estimated that the only unknown ship designs within the Free Duchy are those operating far outside the Sub-Sector or specially created military ships. The chance that a non-unique military design will be encountered is judged low due to the massive amount of vessels sent to secure Voxx Primus. Any new design built within Voxx Primus will be noticed before the superstructure is finished.

Around ~70% of all encountered ships have not been built on or around Voxx Primus, with the planet's yards specialized in three classes: the dual John Bachmeyer Class Tankers/Freighters and the ubiquitous Cobra.

The largest newly encountered ship is the 'Hallowed Cogitation of Creation' that set up shop within a heavily restricted section of the Planetary Ring 11 years ago, measuring up to an estimated ~7 kilometers. Interestingly enough, its armaments can only be described as "confusingly light," with barely a single light Macro-Cannon Turret on the hull.

The average size of the Free Duchy's military ships is ~1.5km for Destroyers, ~2km for Frigates, ~4km for Light Cruisers, and ~5km for Heavy Cruisers, with a ~100-200 meter variance detected due to their construction in different yards.

The average size of the civilian ships of the Free Duchy is ~3km for Light Freighters, ~7km for Medium Freighters, and ~20km for Heavy Freighters, though that stems from only three vessels (the Food Delivery Conveyors).

The Free Duchy is estimated to be roughly as capable a ship-builder as the Glimmering Federation at around 80% efficiency. However, that primarily stems from institutional knowledge, doctrinal conceits, and technological aid from the Mechanicus.

The cargo capacity of their ships is noted at the start of the report in section [1.a) Trade].

The yards are primarily "owned" by private interests, with Noble Houses owning only 17% of the yearly yard time. In truth, the yards are property of Voxx Primus second and Van Zandt first, as the polity massively aided in their construction and so sells "yard time" to its citizens, in which they can then use the facilities and workers with self-purchased materials to create ships. Sold yard time can be taken back at any time by Van Zandt for any reason.


2) Socio-Economics
Life in the Lower Hive, a distinction from the Underhive, is, if anything, something that Federation Propagandists would veto without a second if they saw a ten second pict-reel of it due to the horrific nature of it. 18-hour shifts of back-breaking, cruel labor. "Food" that is barely adequate to keep moving and working. Clothing that has more in common with cheap plastic sheets than any fabric. Mothers give birth next to assembly lines and are fined for missed productivity, while children are chained to the same workstations and clad in the same collar as a person just recently shot for refusing to work anymore. Strikes or work refusals are put down in near torturous manners, with nerve gas used ubiquitously, and forced servitorization of randomly selected workers in the open and over laud-hailers being used to cow entire manufactories into compliance and to make them meet unrealistic quotas. Enforcers, what little there are, can do what they desire with impunity for as long as they have the weapons to back themselves up, being just a well-armed and trained gang...if the latter even ever applied. Justice does not exist. Joy is alien. Hope was shot dead and dragged into an alleyway to be sold for sex and body parts so long ago that not even her bones are there to be noticed. All the while, preachers stand on raised daises surrounded by armed guards or wander the streets with flocks of penitent flagellants whose backs are bloody torn-open puzzles of gore and ribbons of flesh sloughing off, their mouths screaming to the masses of their unworthiness to serve as a part of the Holy Trinary of the Imperial Creed, and that they must repent by spending their days in service to the God-Emperor in all things they do, be it in a manufactory or the military. The Ministorum seems to be far more in lock-step with the stances and views of the government than old experiences with Neon tell, but it is uncertain if that is because the faith follows the government or the government the faith.

On average, ~2-12 Hab-Blocks are in open revolt at any time in any single Hive, fighting viciously against enforcers that use tanks, flamers, and gas without care for collateral damages.

Education does not exist beyond those lucky enough to have parents in jobs that require some form of it or can bribe themselves into an organization where they are given the same. It is entirely an apprentice approach, with the only "schools" located in the Upper Hive for the servants of the Nobility.

Wages do not exist as the broader Federation population is used to. No payments at the end of a month for services rendered, but coin in hand at the end of a shift, with the amount of coin heavily depending on if you pleased or displeased your superiors. Sexual, Psychological, and Physical Abuses are rampant, with wages withheld for minor infractions that wouldn't even be glanced at twice in the Federation, or wages increased for providing information about one's fellow workers, alongside corruption that skims more than the top-off the salaries set by the manufactory, shop, or service business owners.

Food is "state-provided" as House van der Snipe owns all food production within the Hives. All incoming food is bought first by the same before being sold to the Daily Meal Guild, Corpse Guild, Ration Merchants, and the various Houses for luxury items.

Law enforcement exists purely for the benefit of the Upper Hive, keeping out the "riff-raff" while ensuring that any uprisings are swiftly squashed with all available brutality. There are no checks or balances on them, and they can act with impunity wherever they go, only restrained by their fellow enforcers and the need to keep the peace somewhat existing. Murders, rapes, extortions, corruption, torture, theft, and all other manner of crimes are done by the enforcers with increasing regularity the lower one goes within a Hive.


3) Corruption
To ask about (non-Chaos) corruption within Voxx Primus is only done by the uninformed. There is no corruption if everyone is corrupt. If anything, those who don't take bribes are seen with naked suspicion, as bribery and "hidden" deals are seen as natural.

Yet, if one tries to break the mold, either by going after the corrupt or by breaking made deals, "examples" are made of them—screaming, pleading, burning examples.

However, the attacks against the Underhives are seen by nearly everyone as only a breaking of deals if no warning was sent by the paid-off enforcers or those who had their backs scratched with delivered goods, people, or services. Those people either vanished of their own volition quickly found out that the cruelty of the Drukhari does not compare to that of Gangers seeking revenge.


4) Propaganda
The enemies of the Duchy are Ork Corsairs, Drukhari Raiders, Chaos Cultists, and Undefined Internal Evil.

Their propaganda focuses on using the "Trinity of the Imperial Creed" to portray the might and resilience of humanity and the Free Duchy. They claim that with their veneration of the God-Emperor, the faith of the Mechanicum in the Omnissiah and Machine-God, and the Unbreakable Human Spirit, they shall overcome all challenges that lay in their way, no matter how insurmountable they may seem.

Very interestingly, Psykers feature heavily in these propaganda pict-reels as those burdened by the God-Emperor to be vessels for his will and power, to set out and destroy the enemies of humanity in his name at the risk of searing out their soul and letting the Warp devour it. They are mostly seen using their powers to turn entire Ork advances into ash or using pin-point fire of lightning to set Drukhari ablaze, but some have them depicted as "conduits" for machinery to eradicate ships with jets of fire and carve through them with beams of unreality. The end of those pict-reels states without fail that all children above 6 Standard Terran Years must be brought to an Examination Center to be scanned for psychic potential, and non-compliance is punishable by death.

The list of the Noble Houses of Voxx Primus of interest to the Federation includes House Adlhard, Hosue Ninchi, House Gregory Van Terrn, and House Öliastoutouplisou who, in order, are tasked with the PDF/SDF Aeronautica, the supplies for the PDF, the extraction of ore from within the system and planet, and all medical matters.

Official propaganda states that the Mechanicus, though weird and often frightening, are devout servants of the God-Emperor who pray to Him On Holy Terra through a guise he wore to bring them into the fold for the services they will render Him in the coming millennia.

Currently, their propaganda has shifted to focus on the "White Void" "eating Sub-Sector Archwan" in response to their discovery of our existence. It primarily focuses on getting people to sign up for the Voxxian PDF and SDF, with a side note of justifying increased quotas. They have adopted a Siege Mentality stance against us, with justifications being laid down for mass conscriptions once conflict breaks out. Yes, once, for they are certain that the White Void will soon come to devour them, too.



Next Intelligence Reports:
(6-Hour Moratorium)
[] Shipwright's Alliance and Stellar Growth
[] Mashan Temple Authority and Ashan Families
[] Eldar - (Lone Wave) and the Republic of Asharru
[] Black Ash Clan, Black Cat Company, and The Croaf Hegemony

Further Van Zandt Free Duchy Questions:
[] (Write-In)




An: Since the vote decided to continue, I decided that, yes, you should know the same shit you know about Voxx about the other polities you have encountered. As such, please hold for 7 Intelligence Reports; please ask further questions at your leisure.

Additionally, I am going to be asking about the intent behind write-ins to remove possible further misunderstandings.

I appreciate your patience, and I hope this will be the last such incident until the Quest ends.
 
Blah. To me, this feels like demanding a lot of paperwork from the QM that they don't want to write and we don't want to read. I'd rather make some assumptions and mistakes than turn this game from fun into work by always, constantly asking a billion questions and demanding every piece of information we should have. See here for more thoughts on the matter.

I mean, I appreciate the info and worldbuilding, and it definitely seems like we need that space grounding song sooner rather than later. They definitely went heavy into psy-tech here, and I don't like the mention of
or machinery to eradicate ships with jets of fire and carve through them with beams of unreality

But, surprise surprise they don't release any information about their counterespionage systems in a public forum. Who would have thought.
 
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