I can think of worse ways to deal with the Chaos invasion that's likely about to land.
Sterbelicht - One Sacrifice At A Time Against The Galaxy (40K)
- Thread starter HeroCooky
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Actions based on missed Development Milestones are always worse than the Milestone it is based on. We've seen this.
The 'consolation options' that my malding after the Void-X vote where we 'missed' another automation Milestone option were both research actions, one 2-cost which creates 1 Destroyer/turn, and one 3-cost that improves our Heretech Research Bonus by 0.1, from 0.2 to 0.3.
This is in comparison to:
-Automatic Destroyer Production equal to 20% Build Capacity for Destroyers (rounded up)/turn, which would be 3 Destroyers per turn now
-A 0.1 Research/turn auto-ticker, which would have gotten us 5 research actions total in the time since we choose not to take that option
There are fairly significant gaps in the value between these options. I have little doubt that any write-in for Civillian Warp Traders would be just as neutered than these examples, because it has to be for the choice of Dev Milestones to mean anything or be significant choices.
I don't think this is a valid option. We'd have to hit Civ Industry X before we can upgrade the Warp Fleets IIRC.
- Location
- US
I wonder if anything happens when we hit V in a Melody, or All-V in a Song.
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
Oh, I am.
You are pretty much swinging between violent proselytizers and ordinary ones, but Star Child worship, as you are now, and especially of your current major denomination, is mandatory.
You cannot do that.
Melodies are locked at III.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[] Automating Automatic Actions (AAA)
-[] A Society Dynamic, Bold, And True - [Choose 3]
--[] Civilian Warp Fleets
--[] *Mad Binary Screeching*
--[] The Wonders Of Economy Of Scale
Based on the discussion so far, this probably won't win. But by the Star Child do I want some automated goodies.
-[] A Society Dynamic, Bold, And True - [Choose 3]
--[] Civilian Warp Fleets
--[] *Mad Binary Screeching*
--[] The Wonders Of Economy Of Scale
Based on the discussion so far, this probably won't win. But by the Star Child do I want some automated goodies.
- Location
- USA
Everyone give me about like 4 hours, I shall be back.
Honestly, we'll probably need the Federation to be smacked with a big clue-by-four eventually to realize and acknowledge that there are Gods and religions other than the Star Child that are legitimate and non-Chaos plus races that worshipping the Star Child won't safeguard their souls against Chaos (i.e. the Eldar).
ConfusedCanuck
Where did it all go wrong?
- Location
- Neverland
You know question for ya @HeroCooky but how viable is it if we try to create a office/department of colonization that just automates colonization for us if we have say more then 3 spare choirs available at a time? That way we don't have to put actions into colonization and just let that work in the background?
If we were to write something up for that in detail could that be an action we could take.
If we were to write something up for that in detail could that be an action we could take.
The point isn't that they are equal, but that we can still sorta get it, while getting a whole lot of other stuff that, I atleast feel, is better. Especially high ap write ins. We can for example make a write in such as 3 ap: 5 fold naval expansion company - automatically expands navy. Or other things like it ie. the auto convert planets option.
Ah, I got confused by:
But that's the upgrade at Civ-X, isn't it?
Alright then. I think I'm good for the third option to either be food supplies or automated research.
Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
12.5 Infra points worth. Enough to say maximize Void Industry to XX for a massive production buff, capability to build even bigger ships such as battleships, and two new traits with a few actions to spare. Any Ravager type enemy that we currently have a chance of defeating should not be able to beat that, thus winning us the coming war. Mind it wouldn't help much with the equally important coming peace or incorporating all the planets that are up for grabs.
It could also massively jump our technology, which might be wiser as compared to infra they effectively just got a 50% discount. Hm, with this trend we should perhaps wait until All X to start really pushing tech...
Not to forget the Melodies, this could boost would psyker power massively. Even just boosting the component melodies of our navigation and astropathy songs should do wonders surely.
This option is basically moving forward quarter a millennium years in whatever category(ies) we choose.
Compared to the Three Traits option, it provides 2.5 traits but of a higher level as well as a lot of infra development which has a value all of its own, and makes reaching All X possible within a millenium without major buffs appearing. The downside is that we are likely to lose a bunch of the infra points thus gained from incorporating a large number of worlds, unlike the Three Traits option that exploits the new traits automatic infra recovery up to lvl 5.
I remember the last Faith Turn and the ship design options it gave. We ended up using it for effectively +50% Weapons but there were things such as a knockoff Nova Cannon that can almost one shot a destroyer which I can think of a bunch of uses for, especially since it seemed mountable on a Destroyer. That could get silly. But maybe thats meant to be balanced alongside the other weapons, of which two are explicitly just +50% better per DP? And even if we reach +50% overall better ships (not just weapons), taking the Three Traits option we can with one of points get half again as many ships.
So I think do not take this for shipbuilding sadly.
The other boosted categories are Faith and Psykana actions, though research might be as well? There were words of using this to research the Necron ship.
The only Faith actions are Mausoleum of the Prophet (? effect) and Sermons To The Families which allows our preachers to do their work among the Ashen so the effect would probably just supercharge this and save some actions.
Psykana wise, we could likely do some crazy stuff with Faith Turn boosted Songs, even just revising the navigation one... Or maybe we might get access to some special melodies?
(This reminds me, we are one action away from gaining Innovation and Machinery which along with other melodies such as Creativity, Song, Logic, and Progress should result in a research boost surely.)
These currently give: All your people are passively immune to Light Chaos Corruption
So... an upgrade to Medium?
I don't know how to evaluate it, we haven't had problem with Chaos corruption for a long time now? Immunity to light corruption might be enough for most of our needs. Though, we are going to be battling Chaos and presumably taking their worlds now where this might shine quite a lot.
It is also of course a general progress for our faith, which has been very good for us indeed.
30 Actions worth, but lower level traits than what reaching new heights would give and no infra levels. Also no lost infra levels though, and very long term allows for more maximum traits.
I have seen much talk of Civilian Warp Fleets and ISCs, but do keep in mind that those require patronage to get their effect, and too much patronage of what seems to be Interstellar Shipping Corporations is likely to create a number of new problemss, especially since their noted effects seem suspiciously powerful for a single trait. Though than again is this a lvl 10 trait? Might be how much more valuable those are than lvl 5.
Deep Space Beacons might combo with the above as we surely wont have enough Choirs or Andromedas for civilian shipping, but also hellishly expensive and probably only really worth the trait point for stabilizing warp routes... of which we do not have any as far as I know.
Hardened Seedbanks is good to have but we can also just invest into Void Industry and (mostly?) prevent this stuff from happening in the first place.
Plump And Happy And Healthy I do not understand how this could not be gained by just raising Food Industry. Very tempting on humanitarial and in character grounds, but what does this do mechanically and why does it need a bloody trait?
Merchant Marine hell no, just build some troopships it's not that hard. I can design some some crazily spacious ones easily, 5 SAG per Taurus is trivial. This is probably not worth more than a single action or so.
Mad Binary Screeching +0.1 Action per Turn, and random target. Action economy is king, sure, but this is a little... too little?
The military options are a no I feel. Military Industry or ground combat in general is not our speciality. If I had to pick one it would be walkers or airstrikes though.
Mandatory Medical Education will save us a bunch of Medical Industry levels, but with the All V automatic recovery... could become a bottleneck with this trait but we just can't know that yet so not a good bet taking this now.
Widespread Augmetic Production provide a very broad bonus indeed, quality of life, economy (surely), better military and navy man and lower causalities... might also be something we could build on in the future, I wonder if a faith granted degree of Chaos immunity might might make universal Mind Machine Interface and internet safe-ish? That could be crazy valuable.
Logistical Production Analytica... how much of a shipbuilding boost would +4 Void Industry give? Not sure, but probably less? This makes each new increase of our shipbuilding capacity or ship quality half again as valuable though... and it would multiply our strongest industry.
The Wonders Of Economy Of Scale gives pretty much exactly +0.2 Actions Per Turn, as surely we will never have such a thing as too many Destroyers. Of note, with the above trait this would give 7.2 free Destroyers per turn. Currently we have 19 and 4 scouts. Notably if we take this we should replace Crux with a missile storm destroyer to make use of this as otherwise we would need to build our missile ships manually and missiles benefit a bunch from big numbers to overwhelm PD. Also Aries needs an upgrade.
If we take this option I feel it should be to take traits with outstanding or critical effects (and therefore unbalanced?) effect like possibly Civilian Shipping, to multiply our best industry (Void) with Logistical Production Analytica and/or The Wonders Of Economy Of Scale or if major combos between traits (such as the last two) are found.
Hopefully we can do a Faith write in action to open up worship (let the other races worship their deities so long as they aren't Chaos and me sure to also devoutly worship the Star Child).
Though given that Teeln just died, doing so is going to be a big pain in the ass.
I'm actually against this, we don't really need to have automated destroyer production that badly. I think Logistical Production Analytica is more important so we can produce more ships at once.
@HeroCooky one question about traits. For example, when we reach Civ Inf X, will we get the same two options we didn't pick at V and the upgraded form of the one we did pick or will we get the three upgraded options?
So, @HeroCooky can we learn what T'au chose for their all-5 (and maybe all-10)?
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
But why do that when you could just...get the milestones? Which are probably going to be better anyway? I just don't get the logic man. I don't think we need to like hyper-accelerate with the 25 action surge, and I'd rather get some guaranteed good passive abilities than force ourselves into getting 2 brand new ones way faster than we need to.
- Location
- colombia
6 development categories,one at X
others at V
each development will take us 2 actions,so in practice those 25 actions is actually 12.5 we gotta spread
we can each X in 2 out 5 categories and have a few points left for other stuff
honestly i think is better to upgrade traits
others at V
each development will take us 2 actions,so in practice those 25 actions is actually 12.5 we gotta spread
we can each X in 2 out 5 categories and have a few points left for other stuff
honestly i think is better to upgrade traits
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Plus, one of the Traits that seems to be universally desired would let us, on turns where we want to do development, get back down to 1 action/level again, which will make getting the categories up to all-10 considerably easier than if we took the 25 action infusion.
Mandatory in the no God but me way? Or Mandatory in the Roman we have other Gods as well but this one is on top way?
I mean it's pretty obvious that it's worship the Star Child or on the pyre you go, that's why our anti-chaos trait applies universally to our population.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Tbh mandatory would be the only thing that makes sense in character of our little star nation we got burned hard by other gods and salvation was brought to us by teeln prophet of the star child no other god and no we get to keep our souls save and fuel the protective barrier of our nations well being in the immaterium there is no other option but be a monotheist.
Edit : And im here for the star child and not a bloat of other gods if i would want that i go to the ferret quest there are more gods there then the star u can count
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- Location
- ?????????
[] Plan: Trade, Production and SCIENCE
-[] Civilian Warp Fleets
-[] Logistical Production Analytica
-[] *Mad Binary Screeching*
I usually don't make plans but I think this is a good path. Auto research is good, more bang for our ship production buck and Civilian Warp Fleets have been touted as pretty nice.
-[] Civilian Warp Fleets
-[] Logistical Production Analytica
-[] *Mad Binary Screeching*
I usually don't make plans but I think this is a good path. Auto research is good, more bang for our ship production buck and Civilian Warp Fleets have been touted as pretty nice.
I'll try to explain my thoughts, but it boils down to the the Other Stuff. Not everything about these actions would be about traits, infact most of them would not be (in my mind). I disagree with the earlier notion of rushing both of the 2 X traits. I advocate getting some backlog tech, guaranteed safety and quick expansion by retrofitting and expanding our navy (which would insidentaly get us more traits sooner by wrapping up the chaos stuff faster), colonising like 4 or 6 planets, and finally building something really really cool.
Something really cool like a massive ship never before seen, or some type of infastructure project, or a research institute, or the planet conversion thing.
The difference between the traits currently advocated for, is that they are, to me, boring number go up options. Whereas these write ins would be constantly in the readers minds since we could visibly see them at work, we can see when our f off big ship goes and subjugates an entire world alone, we can see when a hostile hive converts to us, we can see when the research institu procs and we get a free goodie.
So to summarise, I feel the actions are not only better short and medium term, only marginally worse long term (arguably not even that), but most importantly much much more interesting with more plot devices and hooks that we as readers and questors actually interact with.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Honestly, given how much of a pain in the ass it is to raise Infrastructure, I don't think they'd have little Secret Traps in them. It's not like "Having good access to nutrition and good healthcare means that you're a sucker for Tzeentch because you're making things Good and therefore people can hope for better and that's all he needs to corrupt you."
Infrastructre bonuses are rewards, not Monkey's Paws. I don't believe that ISCs are Secretly a Trap because if you patronize them they'll take over and you'll become a kleptocracy. Just the ability to facilitate our worlds talking to each other and trading properly is worth the price of admission, that it also lets us compensate for the increased difficulty of bringing our Infra up to scratch is just bonus.
...
That being said @HeroCooky , how does the floor we have work now? Is it "You take penalties yeah, but they automatically increase back to your baseline without your intervention?"
Infrastructre bonuses are rewards, not Monkey's Paws. I don't believe that ISCs are Secretly a Trap because if you patronize them they'll take over and you'll become a kleptocracy. Just the ability to facilitate our worlds talking to each other and trading properly is worth the price of admission, that it also lets us compensate for the increased difficulty of bringing our Infra up to scratch is just bonus.
...
That being said @HeroCooky , how does the floor we have work now? Is it "You take penalties yeah, but they automatically increase back to your baseline without your intervention?"
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