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Springtime of Nations II: A European Republic Quest

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Blackstar said:
[X] Progressive Independents
-[x] Plan Socialism with German Characteristics(More Deng Subvariant)
--[x] Support general lowering of taxation and tariffs to more sustainable levels.
--[x] Diplomatically reach out to the Americans in the interest of securing cooperation and at least mutual market access to provide workers with cheaper goods and secure areas of demand.
--[x] Establish the German Development Bank, The Export-Import Bank, and the Agricultural development bank to provide domestic financialization focused on the growth of the economy.
--[x] Support establishment of regional banks in each district or region to provide loans to citizens seeking to establish new innovative co-operative enterprises or allow them to deposit savings.
--[x] Establish and formalize a dual currency regime for the nation, with internal exchange occuring with paper marks while a separate gold mark is created for international exchange. Starting the steady modernization of the financial system to prepare it for the implementation of socialism.
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blackstar posted a new plan btw a more dengy plan
[X] Progressive Independents
-[x] Plan Socialism with German Characteristics(More Deng Subvariant)
--[x] Support general lowering of taxation and tariffs to more sustainable levels.
--[x] Diplomatically reach out to the Americans in the interest of securing cooperation and at least mutual market access to provide workers with cheaper goods and secure areas of demand.
--[x] Establish the German Development Bank, The Export-Import Bank, and the Agricultural development bank to provide domestic financialization focused on the growth of the economy.
--[x] Support establishment of regional banks in each district or region to provide loans to citizens seeking to establish new innovative co-operative enterprises or allow them to deposit savings.
--[x] Establish and formalize a dual currency regime for the nation, with internal exchange occuring with paper marks while a separate gold mark is created for international exchange. Starting the steady modernization of the financial system to prepare it for the implementation of socialism.
 
Blackstar said:
[X] Progressive Independents
-[x] Plan Socialism with German Characteristics(More Deng Subvariant)
--[x] Support general lowering of taxation and tariffs to more sustainable levels.
--[x] Diplomatically reach out to the Americans in the interest of securing cooperation and at least mutual market access to provide workers with cheaper goods and secure areas of demand.
--[x] Establish the German Development Bank, The Export-Import Bank, and the Agricultural development bank to provide domestic financialization focused on the growth of the economy.
--[x] Support establishment of regional banks in each district or region to provide loans to citizens seeking to establish new innovative co-operative enterprises or allow them to deposit savings.
--[x] Establish and formalize a dual currency regime for the nation, with internal exchange occuring with paper marks while a separate gold mark is created for international exchange. Starting the steady modernization of the financial system to prepare it for the implementation of socialism.

Since it was said that splitting on planks doesn't reduce party power, I have decided to make a more Deng-like plank
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Tho I'm not going to vote for it, I do think that this plan makes a lot more sense than the previous ProgInd plan.
 
Fission Battery said:
That's completely disengenuous. The matter at hand isn't trade. We traded with Britain and France last turn. The matter at hand is the policy of opening coops up for foreign investment, which allows people not involved in the coop to reap profits from other people's work. It will impoverish our workers and recreate a class of compradors that we literally just fought a civil war against.
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The same plank also permits the sale of interests in state assets to foreign investors, completely undermining democratic control by subordinating the popular will to the demands of investors for dividends. Likewise the plank to decentralize credit. And the plank to decentralize social welfare distribution undermines the constitutional guarantee of means of subsistence by creating a two-tier system. The unions in particular were destroyed during the Civil War outside of United Front areas, and tasking them with distributing welfare payments is purely a way to deny them to people outside those areas, and to build resentment in those areas for the preferential treatment.
 
[X] Progressive Independents
-[x] Plan Socialism with German Characteristics(More Deng Subvariant)
--[x] Support general lowering of taxation and tariffs to more sustainable levels.
--[x] Diplomatically reach out to the Americans in the interest of securing cooperation and at least mutual market access to provide workers with cheaper goods and secure areas of demand.
--[x] Establish the German Development Bank, The Export-Import Bank, and the Agricultural development bank to provide domestic financialization focused on the growth of the economy.
--[x] Support establishment of regional banks in each district or region to provide loans to citizens seeking to establish new innovative co-operative enterprises or allow them to deposit savings.
--[x] Establish and formalize a dual currency regime for the nation, with internal exchange occuring with paper marks while a separate gold mark is created for international exchange. Starting the steady modernization of the financial system to prepare it for the implementation of socialism.
 
If the foreign investment is fairly and equitably negotiated under German labour laws, then them getting the share of the income they would be entitled to in accordance with the agreed on deal, would be fair.

If a Co Op agrees to sell a share to a foreign company, then it will be doing so in exchange for something, right? The workers won't just give up their share of the dividends, they'll do so in exchange for something.

It probably won't happen much, but the option should be available, for the sake of letting people choose.

Now if it turns out the deal was unfair, or something dirty happened... We just don't give them the dividend?Declare the foreign ownership of the shares invalid, and redistribute them among the workers.
 
For non-socialist republicans in specific - especially veterans of our revolution - the currently most-voted ProgInd plan means inviting in French & British ownership in, which would be objectionable after the blockade they did. Maybe 10 years down the line it would make sense for ProgInds to advocate for, but it's only 2 years post-Civil War. That specific Franco-British plank would ensure a cordon sanitaire of that faction by the socialists & radical republicans
 
[X] Progressive Independents
-[x] Plan Socialism with German Characteristics(More Deng Subvariant)
--[X] Support general lowering of taxation and tariffs to more sustainable levels.
--[X] Diplomatically reach out to the Americans in the interest of securing cooperation and at least mutual market access to provide workers with cheaper goods and secure areas of demand.
--[X] Establish the German Development Bank, The Export-Import Bank, and the Agricultural development bank to provide domestic financialization focused on the growth of the economy.
--[X] Support establishment of regional banks in each district or region to provide loans to citizens seeking to establish new innovative co-operative enterprises or allow them to deposit savings.
--[X] Establish and formalize a dual currency regime for the nation, with internal exchange occuring with paper marks while a separate gold mark is created for international exchange. Starting the steady modernization of the financial system to prepare it for the implementation of socialism.

You know what's funnier than a Dengist party? Two Dengist parties! Party split time!
 
Regency said:
For non-socialist republicans in specific - especially veterans of our revolution - the currently most-voted ProgInd plan means inviting in French & British ownership in, which would be objectionable after the blockade they did. Maybe 10 years down the line it would make sense for ProgInds to advocate for, but it's only 2 years post-Civil War. That specific Franco-British plank would ensure a cordon sanitaire of that faction by the socialists & radical republicans
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It's the second republic and parties have no disciplinary function. Cordons sanitaire are not possible.
 
Blackstar said:
Why would our own workers follow the British line because British capital is at all involved. The workers will not just surrender their control because the people paying to expand a factory change? If they will, then what is the point of the entire revolution if the very workers will jump ship the second even partial foreign investment is involved.
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Workers don't have to pick the British line if the British can pick which workers they favour according to how their economic activity align with their plans. They'll fund what serves them and it'll acquire oversized influence over our economy.

Mayto said:
If the foreign investment is fairly and equitably negotiated under German labour laws, then them getting the share of the income they would be entitled to in accordance with the agreed on deal, would be fair.

If a Co Op agrees to sell a share to a foreign company, then it will be doing so in exchange for something, right? The workers won't just give up their share of the dividends, they'll do so in exchange for something.

It probably won't happen much, but the option should be available, for the sake of letting people choose.

Now if it turns out the deal was unfair, or something dirty happened... We just don't give them the dividend?Declare the foreign ownership of the shares invalid, and redistribute them among the workers.
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Just because it's a valid contract doesn't mean it's a good idea to have it shape our economy. Why are you thinking of this merely as a contract issue rather than as a problem of influence over our economy?
 
[X] Progressive Independents
-[x] Plan Socialism with German Characteristics(More Deng Subvariant)
--[X] Support general lowering of taxation and tariffs to more sustainable levels.
--[X] Diplomatically reach out to the Americans in the interest of securing cooperation and at least mutual market access to provide workers with cheaper goods and secure areas of demand.
--[X] Establish the German Development Bank, The Export-Import Bank, and the Agricultural development bank to provide domestic financialization focused on the growth of the economy.
--[X] Support establishment of regional banks in each district or region to provide loans to citizens seeking to establish new innovative co-operative enterprises or allow them to deposit savings.
--[X] Establish and formalize a dual currency regime for the nation, with internal exchange occuring with paper marks while a separate gold mark is created for international exchange. Starting the steady modernization of the financial system to prepare it for the implementation of socialism.

The only way to make this better would be to have one of the planks be a jpeg of Deng's face, but alas, that would probably mess with the tally.
It also neatly adresses our financial issues better than any other plan, so really its mixing business with pleasure! Since people are so concerned about Franco-British influence, am surprised there are no plans to default on our debts to them smh (or, not doing the meme option, try to make a plan to wean off of them. Which is not a terrible ideia tbh).
 
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<o>U<o> said:
Republicans when the republic doesn't vote in a way they like

But seriously? Going down this road already? This is sad. You can argue if ProgIndies have good ideas, but painting their intentions as antithetical to the Republic isn't healthy for anybody here. If you want to tun a purity terror, you should've killed all your opponents the first time around and spared us the democratic pretense.
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The fact is that the forces that created this republic are still here. They are the ones "we" convinced we will give them what they wanted if they empowered the new parliament and constitution.

And I fear what would happen if, in less than 3 years, we, the parliament, a still young and weak institution, apparently went back from our promises. What would happen after?

That's all for my part. Hopefully things won't go in that direction. Apparently, it is also possibile that the progressives won't be seen as reactionary.
 
[X] Progressive Independents
-[x] Plan Socialism with German Characteristics(More Deng Subvariant)
--[x] Support general lowering of taxation and tariffs to more sustainable levels.
--[x] Diplomatically reach out to the Americans in the interest of securing cooperation and at least mutual market access to provide workers with cheaper goods and secure areas of demand.
--[x] Establish the German Development Bank, The Export-Import Bank, and the Agricultural development bank to provide domestic financialization focused on the growth of the economy.
--[x] Support establishment of regional banks in each district or region to provide loans to citizens seeking to establish new innovative co-operative enterprises or allow them to deposit savings.
--[x] Establish and formalize a dual currency regime for the nation, with internal exchange occuring with paper marks while a separate gold mark is created for international exchange. Starting the steady modernization of the financial system to prepare it for the implementation of socialism.
 
Nyvis said:
Just because it's a valid contract doesn't mean it's a good idea to have it shape our economy. Why are you thinking of this merely as a contract issue rather than as a problem of influence over our economy?
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It is a danger, yes.

It is also a source of foreign currency, and it means that the people have the right to choose for themselves what they want. If foreign influence becomes too overbearing, we can make a decision on how to crack down.

Even just not allowing shares in co ops to be sold on a stock market but instead require direct negotiations with the co op, could provide safety
 
Vi'Talzin said:
[X] Progressive Independents
-[x] Plan Socialism with German Characteristics(More Deng Subvariant)
--[X] Support general lowering of taxation and tariffs to more sustainable levels.
--[X] Diplomatically reach out to the Americans in the interest of securing cooperation and at least mutual market access to provide workers with cheaper goods and secure areas of demand.
--[X] Establish the German Development Bank, The Export-Import Bank, and the Agricultural development bank to provide domestic financialization focused on the growth of the economy.
--[X] Support establishment of regional banks in each district or region to provide loans to citizens seeking to establish new innovative co-operative enterprises or allow them to deposit savings.
--[X] Establish and formalize a dual currency regime for the nation, with internal exchange occuring with paper marks while a separate gold mark is created for international exchange. Starting the steady modernization of the financial system to prepare it for the implementation of socialism.

The only way to make this better would be to have one of the planks be a jpeg of Deng's face, but alas, that would probably mess with the tally.
It also neatly adresses our financial issues better than any other plan, so really its mixing business with pleasure! Since people are so concerned about Franco-British influence, am surprised there are no plans to default on our debts to them smh (or, not doing the meme option, try to make a plan to wean off of them)
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I believe there is a consensus that the abrogation of debt serves us better as a threat at the moment. It's leverage over us, but it also gives us leverage over France and Britain that makes it riskier for them to directly fuck with us, since we have a giant red "cause depression" button within reach at all times.
Mayto said:
It is a danger, yes.

It is also a source of foreign currency, and it means that the people have the right to choose for themselves what they want. If foreign influence becomes too overbearing, we can make a decision on how to crack down.

Even just not allowing shares in co ops to be sold on a stock market but instead require direct negotiations with the co op, could provide safety
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Unlimited freedom isn't a good thing, we aren't libertarians. We still have labor laws, lol. And cracking down on foreign influence after they've got their tendrils in is just going to provoke a war. Look at all the South American nations that got coincidentally couped after they started making noises about nationalization.
 
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Vi'Talzin said:
Also, if people are so concerned about Franco-British influence, am surprised there are no plans to default on our debts to them smh
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Same reason why we're being cautious on naval buildup - we need a non-hostile Franco-British bloc to free us up towards quashing the Austro-Russian Imperial League.

Then reckoning will come for the perfidious French and British for their crimes against the Republic and its citizens 🙏trust🙏
 
spiritualatheist said:
Unlimited freedom isn't a good thing, we aren't libertarians. We still have labor laws, lol. And cracking down on foreign influence after they've got their tendrils in is just going to provoke a war. Look at all the South American nations that got coincidentally couped after they started making noises about nationalization.
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We're not a relatively unstable south American nation with a conservative military establishment, now are we?
 
Mayto said:
It is a danger, yes.

It is also a source of foreign currency, and it means that the people have the right to choose for themselves what they want. If foreign influence becomes too overbearing, we can make a decision on how to crack down.

Even just not allowing shares in co ops to be sold on a stock market but instead require direct negotiations with the co op, could provide safety
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Why the focus on the co-op side? The other half of the plank is privatization of state assets, the common patrimony (land, transport, communications, credit) meant to be held in trust (according to constitutional guarantee) and subject to democratic planning by the people's representatives. It's asset-stripping and enclosure, and a rank betrayal, plain and simple.
 
[X] Progressive Independents
-[x] Plan Socialism with German Characteristics(More Deng Subvariant)
--[x] Support general lowering of taxation and tariffs to more sustainable levels.
--[x] Diplomatically reach out to the Americans in the interest of securing cooperation and at least mutual market access to provide workers with cheaper goods and secure areas of demand.
--[x] Establish the German Development Bank, The Export-Import Bank, and the Agricultural development bank to provide domestic financialization focused on the growth of the economy.
--[x] Support establishment of regional banks in each district or region to provide loans to citizens seeking to establish new innovative co-operative enterprises or allow them to deposit savings.
--[x] Establish and formalize a dual currency regime for the nation, with internal exchange occuring with paper marks while a separate gold mark is created for international exchange. Starting the steady modernization of the financial system to prepare it for the implementation of socialism.

I'll switch my vote up to this plan. Looks better.
 
[X] Vanguard Communists
-[X] Ante-Bordigism
--[X] Introduce a national ration providing all persons within the Republic their guaranteed basic rights to food, clothing, and housing.
--[X] Establish the Karl Marx Canal Authority with the mandate and powers to review the Canal's plans and propose modernized design elements, and introduce modern labor-saving devices and labor processes to hasten construction and free up workers for reconstruction projects.
--[X] Establish municipal and district planning committees consisting of local and national political, and local worker, delegates to develop local economic plans in conformity with the national plan - such as it is - and to coordinate the efforts of local cooperative and state enterprises towards the accomplishment of the local and national plans.
--[X] Experiment with implementing labor vouchers, in the Ruhr Area as it was relatively untouched by the civil war, as a starting point (along with the national ration) for decommodifying the internal economy.
--[X] Establish a Continuing Committee of the International Socialist and Workers' Congress as a means of governing the activities of the Congress's members during the intervals between official Congress meetings. All activities, understandings and resolutions established and adopted by the Congress should be implemented in full by the Party as a whole.
 
Zimmerwald1915 said:
Why the focus on the co-op side? The other half of the plank is privatization of state assets, the common patrimony (land, transport, communications, credit) meant to be held in trust (according to constitutional guarantee) and subject to democratic planning by the people's representatives. It's asset-stripping and enclosure, and a rank betrayal, plain and simple.
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Do you have a plan for raising foreign currency? So long the ownership is kept as minor as possible, it's a risk we should take.
 
Has anyone thought about selling our excess weapons to the rearming French and British? We just came out of a Civil War so there surely are too many weapons lying around and the Franco-British alliance seems to be preparing for a show-down against the Astro-Russian alliance thus it stands to reason that they would need weapons.

We could also sing a treaty with the scandinavian countries recognising present borders and national water, that might ease tensions thus delaying the war for some time while we rebuild the Republic.
 
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