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Respect Your Elders v2 - Galactic Boogaloo [Warhammer Lizardmen Quest]

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Sinsystems said:
The Lizardmen do not abandon a friend.
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Well, we're very bad at making them, and our entire civilization is collectively traumatized by that time that we lost a bunch of stuff that was hard to make and then had to spend eight thousand years doing without, y'know?

The Froggy Ninja said:
That is explicitly not what we will be doing. We're going to dedicate a large chunk of our resources to helping Isendral for the forseeable future.
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We'll still be learning things! And probably not doing much exterminating.
 
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SuspiciousBird said:
Eventually, we must build entire planetary rings and superstructures in geomantic arrays!
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Too small! We must stabilize entire systems into geomantic stellar engines which then connect with other systems until the web is galactic! And then we shall set out sights on the rest of the universe! Doubtful we ever get that far, but its a neat thought.
 
Simon_Jester said:
We'll still be learning things! And probably not doing much exterminating.
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Oh for sure. But we're not going to be dedicating all our resources there. Though I'm hopeful we'll be allowed to research Tombs of Negative Space so we can blitz through the counter curse within the shortest time period possible. That will conveniently also give us a massive research aid once that particular duty is fulfilled.
 
IIRC the maximum size of the Mochantia web is Magnitude 5, but, a question.

If we manage to go interplanetary and establish a Magnitude 6+ web, does that mean we get 6 spawnings per turn in every temple city, even on those planets have only minimal infrastructure?
 
Well this turn will hopefully be the end of every ork on the central continent, afterwards we just have to clean up the dregs on the northern continent and we'll finally be free of orks.

Only non-Isendral entity we'll have to interact with at that point are the Ayacmanik, who we can social iirc.
 
Rhundikki said:
Only non-Isendral entity we'll have to interact with at that point are the Ayacmanik, who we can social iirc.
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On that note, I'd suggest giving the Ayacmanik sophoncy. A grateful ally is far better than a terrified non-entity or a broken slave, in my opinion. Plus, as we've seen, the mercy we've freely shown them positively affects Isendral's trust of us. It's far better for us to stay on her good side. If she both trusts us and likes us, she'll likely be more invested in our survival.
 
Arkhan the Black said:
On that note, I'd suggest giving the Ayacmanik sophoncy. A grateful ally is far better than a terrified non-entity or a broken slave, in my opinion. Plus, as we've seen, the mercy we've freely shown them positively affects Isendral's trust of us. It's far better for us to stay on her good side. If she both trusts us and likes us, she'll likely be more invested in our survival.
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Counterpoint; a fundamentally parasitic entity whose core purpose/means of existence is enslaving others is a terrible ally who will never be content with what they have, and said parasite is uniquely vulnerable to Chaos with whom they share many traits (enslaving others, a single oversoul connecting all parts none of which are truly individuals, etc).

We should destroy them, with the only exception being if we completely break down and remake them into something that does not resemble a mass realspace demonic possession.
 
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CanYouMeme said:
Counterpoint; a fundamentally parasitic entity that cannot survive without enslaving others is a terrible ally who will never be content with what they have, and said parasite is uniquely vulnerable to Chaos with whom they share many traits.

We should destroy them, with the only exception being if we completely break down and remake them into something that does not resemble a mass realspace demonic possession.
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Fair, but I think their hive-minded state makes them more vulnerable to Chaos. Giving them the capacity to think for themselves would make them somewhat more resistant, sincethere would be multiple different mindsets. Plus, Isendral, their creator, is certainly no friend of Chaos, and, if she can't help make them more resistant, would likely have some sort of backup plan or at least tell us how to handle them. And as you said, they're parasitic by necessity rather than desire, and considering that we can make organic matter out of water, I'm sure we might be able to help them circumvent that issue.
 
Arkhan the Black said:
Fair, but I think their hive-minded state makes them more vulnerable to Chaos. Giving them the capacity to think for themselves would make them somewhat more resistant, sincethere would be multiple different mindsets. Plus, Isendral, their creator, is certainly no friend of Chaos, and, if she can't help make them more resistant, would likely have some sort of backup plan or at least tell us how to handle them. And as you said, they're parasitic by necessity rather than desire, and considering that we can make organic matter out of water, I'm sure we might be able to help them circumvent that issue.
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Nothing here counters the fundamental problem of them being parasites.

I am rather violently opposed to propagating a species of body-jacking enslavers. No tweaking of their mind or granting of individuality changes the fundamental problem of creatures that operate in literally the same fashion as a Chaos daemon, save for the lack/necessity of Warp-taint.

Hence my insistence on breaking and remaking them if you must insist on raising them to sophoncy.

Also, Isendral does not care about them. She told us to do what we want with them. Any trust we may or may not lose by eliminating them is going to be counterbalanced and probably eclipsed by helping her fix the soul stone problem.
 
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I mean, we can just raise the hivemind not to steal bodies of sapients without permission? Like, given that it is a hivemind, as long as we properly teach it and provide it opportunities, it should not have societal issues with members breaking rules, cause it is not a society, it is one person. So, like, just don't be a shit parent lmao.
 
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We have enough to do without having something else dragging our time and resources down.

Besides, one could argue we would be being shit by not killing the ones that killed and bodyjacked so many of our own.
 
As it is currently an animal, it lacks moral agency and, as such, cannot be evil. You can only judge it once you actually give it sapiance.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
We have enough to do without having something else dragging our time and resources down.
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Fair. And I'm not saying that we should look into it right away, the Ayacmanik are currently a non-factor. It just came to my mind while we were on the previous topic. This is all just spitballing rather than a priority.
CanYouMeme said:
Also, Isendral does not care about them. She told us to do what we want with them. Any trust we may or may not lose by eliminating them is going to be counterbalanced and probably eclipsed by helping her fix the soul stone problem.
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True, but that doesn't change the fact that she is their creator and would likely know what to do in a worst-case scenario. And I dunno, the fact that we have a "mercy freely given" modifier seems to imply that she cares at least a little. Not enough to act, but maybe enough to keep an eye.
 
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The Ayacmanik discussion and final vote on what to do with them will be ran through and completed after this turn and before the next. I'm not against y'all discussing it in the meantime, just don't get contentious - I feel most people are kind of set in their opinions about it, and litigating the issue further isn't really gonna do much to change people's minds.

Update will come tomorrow; I'm still moving and so haven't been able to write all that much for the past week-ish, but it's slowed down enough that I feel confident I can get back on track with actually writing over the next week and rely on the Patreon backlog to keep a steady update rhythm in the meantime.
 
Xantalos said:
The Ayacmanik discussion and final vote on what to do with them will be ran through and completed after this turn and before the next. I'm not against y'all discussing it in the meantime, just don't get contentious - I feel most people are kind of set in their opinions about it, and litigating the issue further isn't really gonna do much to change people's minds.

Update will come tomorrow; I'm still moving and so haven't been able to write all that much for the past week-ish, but it's slowed down enough that I feel confident I can get back on track with actually writing over the next week and rely on the Patreon backlog to keep a steady update rhythm in the meantime.
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I have a suggestion:
One post with opinion for Ayacmanik vote, however big it is, per person. Further discussion results in threadban until vote is concluded.

This way, we won't get infinite amount of people screaming at each other about important stuff and being unable to convince each other that their way is the best.
 
NHO said:
I have a suggestion:
One post with opinion for Ayacmanik vote, however big it is, per person. Further discussion results in threadban until vote is concluded.
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Honestly I'd be rather eager to see the long form presentations that would come out of this.

I would posit the additional rule that those putting aside their arguments do not reference, directly or indirectly, previous posters. Otherwise it gives a much larger ability for participants to tear down 'the other guy' rather than making their own case. Everyone should have to make their own case on its own merits. Demagoguery and games of rhetoric aren't going to help us very much.
 
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NHO said:
I have a suggestion:
One post with opinion for Ayacmanik vote, however big it is, per person. Further discussion results in threadban until vote is concluded.

This way, we won't get infinite amount of people screaming at each other about important stuff and being unable to convince each other that their way is the best.
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Sounds good, in that case, I'll just be putting my thoughts down in this post.

The way I see it, the Ayacmanik are going to be pests at best, and menaces at worst if they ever develop along the lines that led them to becoming the Rangdan. The hive mind isn't sentient at this point, so I don't really have any qualms with just flushing them out and exterminating them like a nest of wasps. The other option I have in mind is perhaps melting them down and forging them into a weapon or pet in service of the Great Plan, like our carnosaurs and stegadons, if for a more specialized role in infiltration/terror tactics? I'd be interested in entreating Isendral if people prefer the latter option, only after this eldar fiasco is over of course.


edit: Of course, the latter option will take more resources, so keep that in mind.
 
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I'd argue for uplifting the Ayacmanik for the same reason I voted to deny Isendral's offer: advancement in a vacuum without interacting with others feels like it's kind of meaningless; it is to get stronger without interacting with the world at all, apart from blowing things up (and I've seen even that be judged as a waste of time in the thread before).

Going pure "research so we can unlock more research into more research" with nothing else feels like we're just playing a literary version of a Tycoon or Clicker game with cool flavour text, or perhaps like one of those fics/quests that develop the power they're focused on while ignoring the world (like Celestial Forge afaik).

Just kind of boring overall imo. And the Lizardpeople especially are rather reclusive and won't have many opportunities for social interaction for a long while (considering both their location and the timeline). If we try to snub every single one of those then we'll just end up as solitary nerd hermits.
 
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I still think traumatizing them is our best option. Once we have more slaan power, we can focus on finding a way to make use of them. For now keeping them off our backs is the priority.
 
The way the vote will work is that you guys will be given some amount of time to present your arguments for why this or that option should be chosen. You won't, however, be allowed to argue directly against someone else's points or try to outright convince someone else to join your side, so to speak. Pretty much what you guys are doing right now; argue the merits of your case, and try to see the best points win out. If there's any questions or clarifications needed, you'll have to tag me so I can give an Official Answer.

I'm hoping something like this will avoid the previous trends of people arguing and trying to get each other to let go of stances they're really invested in, which never really goes well.
 
I say we give them a brain dead body and question them…if the rangdan are a asshole hive mind then we either chain them down after consulting our resident eldar lady/pair, or take them out.

If they are cooperative then we can leave them alone for the most part besides building up the planets geomantic lines/array to prevent daemon pests and such.
 
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