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Respect Your Elders v2 - Galactic Boogaloo [Warhammer Lizardmen Quest]

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@Xantalos Is there a moratorium? I assume so, but it isn't stated.

Alright, here is my preliminary plan, I'm open to feedback and suggested changes for it.

Summary: 1/3rd of our slann are assigned to the offensive, since that force is much smaller and will be separated from the rest of our forces. I assigned less Slann to AA than we did the previous war turns, because now we have AA cannons of our own. I also didn't assign any Slann to directly supporting the battle, because that is more risky for the Slann, and the extra firepower we have now should make up the difference.

[ ] Plan Shield and Sword
-[ ] All Defensive Armies will prioritize Destruction of Enemy Forces
-[ ] Legion of Hexoatl and attached Thunder Lizards will prioritize Destruction of High Value Targets
-[ ] Slann Deployment
--[ ] 1 3rd Gen, 4 4th Gen, 50 5th gen to Legion of Hexoatl
---[ ] 1 3rd Gen, 4 4th Gen, 35 5th Gen Nuke From Afar
---[ ] 10 5th Gen Destroy Enemy aircraft
---[ ] 5 5th Gen Contest Enemy Shaman
--[ ] 6 4th Gen, 102 5th Gen (2 3rd gen in charge of cities) spread throughout defensive armies as appropriate
---[ ] When the cities aren't directly under attack, the 2 3rd Gen will Nuke from Afar, returning to help defend their cities if needed
---[ ] 6 4th Gen, 70 5th Gen Nuke from Afar
---[ ] 22 5th Gen Destroy enemy aircraft
---[ ] 10 5th Gen Contest Enemy Shamans.
-[ ] Character Assignments
--[ ] Kroq-Gar: Duel Enemy Leaders, Mages, etc
--[ ] Teninhuan: Lure Ork Forces to focus on the two cities
--[ ] Chakax: Coordinate Slann Defenses
--[ ] Tiktaq'to: Raid Enemy artillery
-[ ] Garrison Assignments: Default
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
@Xantalos
I realized that the whole solar system affecting thing, and the psychic cyborg that enslaved over a thousand systems but was killed by nothing special?

After reading Lord of the First and seeing how the Khrave work, the latter was probably working off of something similar, a psychic web spread out such that it doesn't have to project from across lightyears, similar to the arcane vassals, as opposed to being an entity capable of reaching out on it's own across such a vast space.

Reaching the city level is most commendable for an Alpha, and going into extremes is not a result of raw power, but access to unique resources. A Bloodthirster that drives a planet insane is probably doing it over a period of time as it travels and its presence spreads, or with amplifiers or building on the daemonic presences of the nominal hordes. I figure it might help with the discrepancy in metaphysical scales. Red Flag does something similar, like how even Magnus uses daemonic favour for his really bullshit stuff. That and it seems to be easier to do things that don't require exertion of affects on the materium, like telepathy and astral communication.
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Hmm, an interesting thought! I do have things in place where certain entities can effect a planetary scale through sheer power, but it is a good point that most examples of that sort of thing are usually the result of a ritualistic boosting or widespread infrastructure of some kind.

Captainwolf said:
@Xantalos Urdgob does have a notable amount of planes, correct?
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Yup, both bosses have access to a decent amount of planes, vehicles, etc. The stuff mentioned is just their specialties.

EVA-Saiyajin said:
Holy shit only two weeks, this is a treat.
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Right? I didn't expect to be going this fast, I honestly thought I was writing slower.

Captainwolf said:
@Xantalos Is there a moratorium? I assume so, but it isn't stated.
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Nope, I'm relying mainly on the willingness of players to discuss and brainstorm before committing to a vote - this is a complex enough endeavor without enforcing a moratorium.
 
Xantalos said:
Hmm, an interesting thought! I do have things in place where certain entities can effect a planetary scale through sheer power, but it is a good point that most examples of that sort of thing are usually the result of a ritualistic boosting or widespread infrastructure of some kind.


Yup, both bosses have access to a decent amount of planes, vehicles, etc. The stuff mentioned is just their specialties.


Right? I didn't expect to be going this fast, I honestly thought I was writing slower.


Nope, I'm relying mainly on the willingness of players to discuss and brainstorm before committing to a vote - this is a complex enough endeavor without enforcing a moratorium.
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Question: roughly how many orks have been left behind in Gardakka's territory after the Mag 2?
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Good point. This might be an opportunity to push into the (maybe) depopulated rear and wreak havoc or flank him.
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That's exactly what the Legion of Hexoatl is doing. They are starting with Gardakka's Capital (presumably) and then moving inland to cause havoc. The only question is if we want the legion to focus on wrecking infrastructure and killing VIPS or just trying to kill orks in general. My personal opinion is to go for VIPs and infrastructure, because even assuming the tornadoes killed half the orks in the territory, there would still be 32 million orks roaming around, and the legion only has 700,000 Saurus. Next turn, once we repel the assaults we can push out and actually capture territory properly, hopefully.
 
Captainwolf said:
Question: roughly how many orks have been left behind in Gardakka's territory after the Mag 2?
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! Knew I'd forgotten something. Let's see ... only around 23 million of them died from the ritual since the tornadoes themselves aren't super deadly to orks, but their infrastructure is wrecked across a good portion of his territory. He's likely to lose a fair bit to Urdgob this turn.

Oh right, and 2 million of his forces attacking you got caught by it, so that's down to 25 million. I'll edit that in ... a bit.
 
Alright, so the Legion of Hexoatl will be facing at least 41 million orks roaming around Gardakka's territory. As such, I think they are too heavily outnumbered to make destruction of Enemy forces or conquest of territory feasible. This is not the case for our defensive forces because they have fortifications, more numbers, and the benefits of two cities.

I'm voting for my plan since no one has suggested anything very different from what it entails.

[X] Plan Shield and Sword
-[X] Strategic Goals: Legion of Hexoatl is to destroy Gardakka's capital and capture as much of Gardakka's coast as they can. Defensive armies are to try to kill enough of the attacking orks that it will be feasible to go on the offensive once the Mag 1 ritual is ready.
-[X] All Defensive Armies will prioritize Preservation of forces until Urdgob is assassinated, at which point they should switch to prioritizing Destruction of Enemy Forces
-[X] Legion of Hexoatl and attached Thunder Lizards will prioritize Conquest of Territory
-[X] Slann Deployment
--[X] 1 3rd Gen, 4 4th Gen, 50 5th gen to Legion of Hexoatl
---[X] 1 3rd Gen, 2 4th Gen, 25 5th Gen Nuke From Afar
---[X] 2 4th Gen, 10 5th Gen to Engage in Battle
---[X] 10 5th Gen Destroy Enemy aircraft
---[X] 5 5th Gen Contest Enemy Shaman
--[X] 6 4th Gen, 102 5th Gen (2 3rd gen in charge of cities) spread throughout defensive armies as appropriate
---[X] When the cities aren't directly under attack, the 2 3rd Gen will Nuke from Afar, returning to help defend their cities if needed
---[X] 6 4th Gen, 86 5th Gen Nuke from Afar
---[X] 8 5th Gen Destroy enemy aircraft
---[X] 8 5th Gen Contest Enemy Shamans.
-[X] Character Assignments
--[X] Kroq-Gar: Duel Enemy Leaders, Mages, etc
--[X] Teninhuan: Lure Ork Forces to focus on the two cities
--[X] Chakax: Coordinate Slann Defenses
--[X] Tiktaq'to: Raid Enemy artillery
-[X] Garrison Assignments: Default


Edit 1: swapped legion of Hexoatl from destroying HVTs to conquest
Edit 2: added strategic goals, switched some of legion of Hexoatl Slann to Engage in Battle.
Edit 3: Specified that defensive armies should conserve forces until orks are disorganized by leader death, and reduced number of defensive Slann not doing Nuke from Afar
 
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@Xantalos Question: Where is Gardakka predicted to be when the Legion of Hexoatl begins their attacks? (IE at his capital, on the front facing Urdgob, attacking the lizardmen lines?)
 
Xantalos said:
They were unleashed upon bomb stockpiles, becoming whirling vortexes of explosives that exploded whenever they collided with something, causing them to blast their way through walls and buildings. They sucked up lakes of fuel, transforming themselves into nightmarish cyclones of flame that spun yet faster as they burned...
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OK, @Xantalos , I have to give it to you. This form of ritual was my idea in the first place, and even I did NOT see the bombnadoes and firenadoes coming. :p

"You have seen how the lever we wield may shift the world and all its components," he rumbled, and received unspoken assent. "Now," he proclaimed, "We begin again. The Web holds power still, and it will be needed before the war is concluded. This time, you will shape the energies. I will oversee."

A chorus of ribbits arose from his pupils...
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Ribbit ribbt. :D

Strategic Overview:

Lizardmen territory is being attacked by a total of 53 million greenskins, split between the northern and southern halves of the territory. The legion of Itza protects the south from the city Muukhexla, lead by the Prophet Teninhuan, while Tlaxtlan and Xlanhuapec will defend the north from Tletl'notec, lead by Sky Master Tiktaq'to and Eternity Warden Chakax. Kroq-Gar and Hexoatl's legions are counterattacking Gardakka Worldhamma's territory in the wake of the Geomantic Ritual unleashed by Mazdamundi, accompanied by 8 Thunder Lizards.

Gardakka's armies march to the north, 27 million strong. His forces are generally well-equipped to a modest extent, boasting a variety of shootas, vehicles, squigs, and explosives. His focus lies in the massive amount of artillery, rockets, and other long-ranged, heavy firepower, supported by a fleet composed primarily of bomber aircraft. His forces are approaching both over the Kanyon using artificial bridges and circumventing the obstacle via the northern sea.

Urdgob Noseskorcha sends his hordes to the south, numbering 26 million. His forces are equipped to kill biological enemies, boasting a plethora of incendiary and toxic weapons, as well as heavily armed choppa boyz and squigs. Hemmed in by the Ayacmanik, his armies are heading straight over the Kanyon, using bridges and brute force to make the gap.

Both armies of greenskins will fight each other as well as lizardmen forces. The Ayacmanik are present within lizardmen territory, and will likely attack concentrations of orks, though they may also try their hand against the lizardmen if given the opportunity. The oversoul continues to attack both Gardakka and Urdgob along the outskirts of their respective territories.

3 Thunder Lizards continue to attack Gardakka's territory on their own, with 10 advancing on Urdgob's territory. The Quango will act to impede and destroy any hostile forces attempting to cross the Kanyon.
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OK yeah, about as I figured.

Gardakka's forces will suffer a fair amount from the ritual chewing up their backfield. I know orks aren't big on logistics, but they have munitions factories, and a lot of their munitions and production capacity just got blown the fuck up by random roving bombnadoes and firenadoes. That doesn't mean Gardakka's a weakling now, but his forces are brittle, and his ability to recover from reverses or sustain a prolonged push will be diminished.

Needed Decisions:

The legions of Itza, Tlaxtlan, and Xlanhuapec, being on the defense, must choose a strategic goal to prioritize in their efforts. All goals will be pursued, with the one chosen taking priority:
Destroy Enemy Forces: This army will attempt to destroy as many orks as possible, engaging concentrations of greenskins in force wherever they are found and burning their remains.
Prevent Territorial Occupation: This army will operate in conjunction with existing defensive fortifications outside of the city, using harassment, preemptive strikes, and bombardment to slow the enemy's advance.
Preserve Lizardmen Forces: This army will utilize the fortifications of the temple-city and outlying bunkers to preserve lizardmen lives, ceding some of the initiative but ensuring a bloodbath for anyone attempting to assault the defenses.

The legion of Hexoatl (including the Thunder Lizards accompanying it) must choose its strategic goal for the attack on Gardakka's territory:
Destruction of Enemy Forces: This army will attempt to destroy as many orks as possible, engaging concentrations of greenskins in force wherever they are found and burning their remains.
Conquest of Enemy Territory: This army will deploy its forces across wide swathes of land and secure as much as possible against greenskin incursion, cleansing the ground to prevent a resurgence.
Destruction of High-Value Targets: This army will focus on destroying enemy assets of strategic importance - important factories, capital cities, and enemy leaders all qualify.
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Unsure on the rest of this. I saw the Legion of Hexoatl as focused on Conquest of Enemy Territory, personally, because this is a good time to expand at Gardakka's expense. Not so much need to destroy high-value targets, seeing as how Mazdamundi just wrecked a lot of them, and much of the orks' strength is already coming straight at us, so less need for that too.

For the defending armies, I think force preservation should be the priority. Now that we have respectable long range firepower, we can bleed the orks pretty effectively without getting stuck in too much

Each slann must be assigned to an army and focused upon a task, such as:
Nuke From Afar: The slann will stay far from pitched battle and use its magic to destroy enemy forces from safety with the use of arcane vessels and astral scrying. Prioritizes high casualties.
Contest Enemy Shamans: The slann will focus its energies upon preventing enemy mages from working magic, and destroying them in magical duels wherever they are found.
Engage in Battle: The slann will accompany lizardmen forces and assist them in battle by casting shields, supporting faltering forces, and blasting enemy armies with magical firepower.
Write-ins are allowed for slann tasks (ie buffing warboss assassination teams, destroying enemy aircraft).
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A few committed to contesting enemy shamans, a few in the northern territories dedicated to air defense duties, and the rest... well, I'll have to review the committed numbers but I'm thinking "nuke" more so than "engage in battle."

EVA-Saiyajin said:
Good point. This might be an opportunity to push into the (maybe) depopulated rear and wreak havoc or flank him.
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That's what I had the Legion of Hexoatl doing in the overall plan.

Captainwolf said:
That's exactly what the Legion of Hexoatl is doing. They are starting with Gardakka's Capital (presumably) and then moving inland to cause havoc. The only question is if we want the legion to focus on wrecking infrastructure and killing VIPS or just trying to kill orks in general. My personal opinion is to go for VIPs and infrastructure, because even assuming the tornadoes killed half the orks in the territory, there would still be 32 million orks roaming around, and the legion only has 700,000 Saurus. Next turn, once we repel the assaults we can push out and actually capture territory properly, hopefully.
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I'm honestly favoring a focus on securing territory. The Legion of Hexoatl has extensive Thunder Lizard support to wreck face if they encounter any really big ork concentrations, and a big part of the point of their limited counteroffensive is a "bite and hold" approach to snip off bits of Gardakka's territory.
 
Simon_Jester said:
I'm honestly favoring a focus on securing territory. The Legion of Hexoatl has extensive Thunder Lizard support to wreck face if they encounter any really big ork concentrations, and a big part of the point of their limited counteroffensive is a "bite and hold" approach to snip off bits of Gardakka's territory.
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Hmm. There are 41 million orks in the territory. Lets say half of them are on the border with Urdgob. That leaves the Legion of Hexoatl outnumbered roughly 29 to 1 (counting only Saurus), because while the orks will be spread out, the Legion will also need to be spread out to burn out spores. I'm just not sure a single army can take and hold a useful amount of territory.

Additionally, if we destroy the infrastructure now, then when we beat back the assaults, we should be able to press forward with most of our forces, and they will be less able to resist because we've blown up the places they need to make vehicles.

The third thing is I'm hoping to have Kroq-Gar gank Gardakka via teleport strike, but that depends on Gardakka not being on the Gardakka-Urdgob front. I'm waiting for information from Xantalos before I commit to this.
 
*is struck by a thought*

@Xantalos I got to wondering about dealing with Tyranids via Geomancy. Would it be possible to use a Ritual to crack the crust of a very very large land area and then release and/or create a lot of very toxic and flammable gasses which are then lit and exploded? Basically meant to poison a bunch of things and vaporize most of what's left, though I expect tougher stuff would still keep kicking.
 
BungieONI said:
*is struck by a thought*

@Xantalos I got to wondering about dealing with Tyranids via Geomancy. Would it be possible to use a Ritual to crack the crust of a very very large land area and then release and/or create a lot of very toxic and flammable gasses which are then lit and exploded? Basically meant to poison a bunch of things and vaporize most of what's left, though I expect tougher stuff would still keep kicking.
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Trying to poison tyranids is likely to work... Once. If anything survives, it's likely the next wave is more resistant to whatever killed them.
Imo, just use stars. That probably wont leave anything alive.
Or, use the web to scour the planet completely. Iirc, scorched earth works wonders.
Any Lizards that die can just join the anti denim legions in the warp.
 
IronFist said:
Trying to poison tyranids is likely to work... Once. If anything survives, it's likely the next wave is more resistant to whatever killed them.
Imo, just use stars. That probably wont leave anything alive.
Or, use the web to scour the planet completely. Iirc, scorched earth works wonders.
Any Lizards that die can just join the anti denim legions in the warp.
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Yeah, that is the problem with Tyranids but I expect that going in. Might be easier to do a tuned ritual like the hypothetical Aya killing thing.
 
BungieONI said:
Yeah, that is the problem with Tyranids but I expect that going in. Might be easier to do a tuned ritual like the hypothetical Aya killing thing.
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I think it depends on how the Shadow in the warp interacts with geomagnetic rituals.
I don't think it does, so we are likely fine (relatively speaking).
Interfering with synapse creatures might work.
@Xantalos: how does the hive mind compare to the megademon that was afflicting the communion?
Because hopefully by that me we will have the 1st gens back... And the sixth and seventh spawning. Maybe even an eighth.
After all, this is 10k years in the future: its likely that slann spawning will be constant... But a slann spawned in the first batch is likely to match the current 5th gen in 10k years.
 
IronFist said:
I think it depends on how the Shadow in the warp interacts with geomagnetic rituals.
I don't think it does, so we are likely fine (relatively speaking).
Interfering with synapse creatures might work.
@Xantalos: how does the hive mind compare to the megademon that was afflicting the communion?
Because hopefully by that me we will have the 1st gens back... And the sixth and seventh spawning. Maybe even an eighth.
After all, this is 10k years in the future: its likely that slann spawning will be constant... But a slann spawned in the first batch is likely to match the current 5th gen in 10k years.
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I could definitely see the Slann getting their ribbity mitts on the Synapse Network and causing Bad Times for the Tyranids. Its a network you can dump focused energy into, shaped into killing spells, and is at least somewhat similar to the Aya oversoul.
 
bioticgrunt said:
How I believe sauras with ARs vs Orks
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Not quite that one-sided, but Saurus definitely have the upper hand in terms of uncanny, almost machine-like precision.

Captainwolf said:
@Xantalos Question: Where is Gardakka predicted to be when the Legion of Hexoatl begins their attacks? (IE at his capital, on the front facing Urdgob, attacking the lizardmen lines?)
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He's on the Urdgob front, as is Urdgob himself - the ritual fucked up his ability to take a hit on the strategic scale and both of them know it, so they're brawling on the border with the majority of their forces.

Simon_Jester said:
OK, @Xantalos , I have to give it to you. This form of ritual was my idea in the first place, and even I did NOT see the bombnadoes and firenadoes coming.
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I was tempted to do squignadoes too, but these orks haven't unlocked the fun squigs that'd make that sort of thing entertaining yet.

Simon_Jester said:
A few committed to contesting enemy shamans, a few in the northern territories dedicated to air defense duties, and the rest... well, I'll have to review the committed numbers but I'm thinking "nuke" more so than "engage in battle."
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You can also assign slann to Hexoatl if you want to - the existing plan might or might not, I haven't looked at it yet, just wanted to preemptively clarify.

BungieONI said:
*is struck by a thought*

@Xantalos I got to wondering about dealing with Tyranids via Geomancy. Would it be possible to use a Ritual to crack the crust of a very very large land area and then release and/or create a lot of very toxic and flammable gasses which are then lit and exploded? Basically meant to poison a bunch of things and vaporize most of what's left, though I expect tougher stuff would still keep kicking.
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Oh for sure! Though the process isn't something that could be called collateral damage friendly, so you probably wouldn't want to use it on anyplace you liked the aesthetics of.

IronFist said:
@Xantalos: how does the hive mind compare to the megademon that was afflicting the communion?
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Bigger, significantly so. Can't give specifics until you get to grips with it.

Tyranid adaptation isn't perfect, as an aside - what they gain in one area they have to trade away in another, and they can't become resistant to everything at once. It's more like they swap out stats as they fight. It's a good way to fight them if you've got a varied enough toolkit that you can use to counter their counters, like the Tau did that one time.

I'll do some edits to the battle post in the morning, but just reiterating what's clarified in the meantime:
- Ritual killed 23 million orks, 2 mil of which were in the attacking force (so it's 25 million in the north now) and wrecked Gardakka's industry and defences across his whole territory.
- Gardakka's concentrating his forces at the front with Urdgob, stonewalling him so he can rebuild his logistical capacity and fortifications. Urdgob is pressing a fair amount of his boyz to take advantage, but is also dedicating a decent amount to fending off Ayacmanik and Thunder Lizard assaults.
- Both ork armies have aircraft and vehicles and whatnot, they just specialize in different things.
 
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