- Location
- Canada
[x] Plan Guardian
Respect Your Elders v2 - Galactic Boogaloo [Warhammer Lizardmen Quest]
- Thread starter Xantalos
- Start date
- Sci-Fi Fantasy
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] Plan Guardian
- Location
- Somewhere Beyond the Sea
[x] Plan Guardian
Damn, an hour too late
Damn, an hour too late
Kaboomatic
Where the Wild Things Are
- Pronouns
- He/Him
No you are not
Vote's open for at least a few days
- Location
- Asia
[X] Plan Oh No There Goes Deffkloud
- Location
- Not here. Maybe on SB.
For all planmakers, who use "Behead the Beast" (assassination)! Gardakka will have about a five years to beat Urdgob before ritual will strike. There's chance that one of them will kill the other. Don't sure how likely that, but there we have a chance of wasting action... Maybe you should consider to add a note "If that person dies, assassinate one or more of possible successors", or something like that (I don't think we can use preparation for assassination to, say, build a new city 
). @Xantalos, is that valid addition?
[X] Plan Defend and Counterstrike
I think that one is closest to my ideal right now. Might switch later, either for "Deffkloud" or against it, depend on how Simon will argue about his idea of assassinating one Warboss, but not both. Right now I'm not convinced we should do this.
Even if Gardakka wouldn't kill Urdgob before us (as I said above, he'll have about a five years to do so), he'd be, likely, in pretty bad position. And so, I'd prefer two severely crippled hordes than one not so much.
To @Simon_Jester, about the hopes and expectations:
"Deal with", at least as I use it usually, is "solve that problem". In that case, I implied "cripple the orks enough so they wouldn't be a threat for us". Cleaning afterward would be requred after Mag 3 ritual as well.
Secondly, we could've done it on the last turn. But "Too big a project to tackle without significantly impairing our ability to fight the orks". Implies that "next turn maybe (i.e. "hopefully") that will not be the issue".
I know that you expected to have troubles with orks and that we'll need more than one turn to defeat them.
). @Xantalos, is that valid addition?[X] Plan Defend and Counterstrike
I think that one is closest to my ideal right now. Might switch later, either for "Deffkloud" or against it, depend on how Simon will argue about his idea of assassinating one Warboss, but not both. Right now I'm not convinced we should do this.
Even if Gardakka wouldn't kill Urdgob before us (as I said above, he'll have about a five years to do so), he'd be, likely, in pretty bad position. And so, I'd prefer two severely crippled hordes than one not so much.
To @Simon_Jester, about the hopes and expectations:
If I'd tried to imply you expected to deal with orks in one turn, then yes. But hoping? For me that quotes pretty clearly states it.
Actually no. At least for me - it is very much relevant. That mean you, maybe, hoped to deal with orks in two turns, and then get that research on third, because we can do 1000 slannpower researches in one turn, unlike 2500.
So? I didn't state you (or anyone else) hoped to kill every single ork in one turn.
"Deal with", at least as I use it usually, is "solve that problem". In that case, I implied "cripple the orks enough so they wouldn't be a threat for us". Cleaning afterward would be requred after Mag 3 ritual as well.
Exactly. Do I need to bring here a dictionaries for word "hope" meaning? Here you confirmed you hoped that things might go well enough to allow us dedicate more than a half (since you thinked we need 1000) of our slannspower for something not related to war with orks.
Firstly, I interpreted it almost exactly as you said here: "let's not do the stone NOW, hopefully we may be able to do it next turn".
Secondly, we could've done it on the last turn. But "Too big a project to tackle without significantly impairing our ability to fight the orks". Implies that "next turn maybe (i.e. "hopefully") that will not be the issue".
You mean significantly impair our ability to fight the orks?
I know that you expected to have troubles with orks and that we'll need more than one turn to defeat them.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I think you're overthinking it. The two factions are fairly close to evenly matched; I'm not worried about the action being wasted, realistically. Remember that in the later part of Turn 10, Urdgob was making gains at Gardakka's expense. Things could still turn around for him if he rolls well, and even if he rolls poorly, he won't necessarily lose fast.For all planmakers, who use "Behead the Beast" (assassination)! Gardakka will have about a five years to beat Urdgob before ritual will strike. There's chance that one of them will kill the other. Don't sure how likely that, but there we have a chance of wasting action... Maybe you should consider to add a note "If that person dies, assassinate one or more of possible successors", or something like that (I don't think we can use preparation for assassination to, say, build a new city
Furthermore, if Gardakka does kill Urdgob or take over his faction, and becomes the warboss of all the orks, we'll be wanting to take down Gardakka in single combat with one of our saurus oldbloods, not assassinate him. We'll get better results that way. So having the assassination team simply call off their activities would probably be for the best.
Here are the probable scenarios I foresee as likely developments of the current state of affairs:
1) Urdgob rallies, drives back Gardakka
Result: Urdgob is marginally stronger, but still effectively contained by the dozen or so wild Thunder Lizards on his borders, by the Ayacmanik, and by the Army of Itza on his west holding the line of the Kanyon. Conceivably Urdgob might do so well he conquers Gardakka entirely before our counterattack fires, but I doubt it given that he's on the back foot right now and, as noted, contained by external threats that stop him from giving Gardakka his undivided attention. When my plan hits, Gardakka gets a literal Godzilla-sized stab in the back and begins to collapse. We take a big bite out of his territory. Simultaneously, we assassinate Urdgob to keep him from taking over as boss of all orks. Pretty good outcome.
2) Stalemate between Urdgob and Gardakka
Broadly speaking the results are similar to (1). Gardakka may be able to gain at Urdgob's expense by seizing territory that was once his, but at the same time that the assassination takes place, Gardakka will also be repelling an invasion of his territory, one commanded by our best general and supported by eight Thunder Lizards, and dealing with the fact that swarms of raging tornadoes have just torn up most of his infrastructure. By the time he can rally the orks formerly loyal to Urdgob, the pressure on their rear area (that is, the orks' frontier with the jungle and possibly with us) will have advanced considerably. Total orkish territory will be diminished and devastated, leaving us a relatively good strategic position for a final offensive to crush Gardakka's united WAAAGH!
3) Gardakka begins to conquer Urdgob
As Urdgob begins to lose territory, his ability to hold the jungle frontier diminishes- this is already starting to happen. His frontier contracts towards Gardakka, collapsing in on the battle-lines as Urdgob withdraws forces to fight Gardakka. The orks as a whole lose significant territory to the Ayacmanik, who as discussed are effective at clearing it of feral orks. By the time we move in, Gardakka is abruptly distracted by our invasion in his rear areas to the north... and at the same time, Urdgob collapses entirely. This presents Gardakka with a problem I'll discuss a bit later. But the key point is, Gardakka will not, in this case, have time to consolidate his gains and equip new forces or otherwise benefit from having united the orks before we start pounding on him. And AS we pound on him, suddenly the southern flank collapses and he has entirely new problems!
Urdgob's death will also relieve much of the pressure to keep the Legion of Itza pinned in place, letting it join the campaign and cross the Kanyon in the southern stretches in its own right.
4) Gardakka completely conquers Urdgob
This is basically going to be as (3), except faster. The catch is that when Gardakka finally wins, he inherits Urdgob's background problem: holding the orks' southern border against a very dense concentration of Thunder Lizards and Ayacmanik, one that is already munching its way north- see (3). Dealing with that along with all else that will be happening means he is likely to be badly out of position when we hit him from the north, and potentially susceptible to our Mag 1 follow-up strike on his capital, or to being found and dueled to death by Kroq-Gar or Chak'ax.
Again, it seems unlikely that Gardakka will have much time to enjoy his victory, or to build new strength the orks didn't already have, before we start our final campaign to roll them up on Turn 12. Our assassination team's time was arguably wasted... but I don't worry much about that.
No Trespassing - Okibruez
Okibruez
(Verified Mid-Boss)
- Location
- Dreams
No Trespassing
Inquisitor Rathus was furious, livid, and more than a little frustrated. Sector Aszan was, largely, a barren backwater with nothing of worth. Except, unfortunately, for the planet Aszan itself, which was a garden world, and one that several arms of the impossible Imperium bureaucracy wanted settled. And it had been. Three times now. And every time it was settled, less than a decade later, every last citizen would be missing, likely dead, and the settlement itself would be so overgrown that anyone would swear it had been centuries since anyone had walked the ruins. And every time, he'd be called in to figure out what happened since he had been the one unlucky enough to be assigned it the first time.
His ship's sensors weren't the most advanced the techpriests could produce, but they were certainly capable enough. His psyker was more than a match for the average demon-worshipping cult leader. His crew were drawn from those that had endured the rigors of countless different Death Worlds and survived, and he himself had seen dozens of different xeno horrors and killed each and every one of them. By all rights, he should have been capable of uncovering whatever was going on. But every time he arrived, his men would find no hints of hostile action, his sensors would pick up none of the usual traces of ships in or out of the planet's atmosphere, and the psyker would swear up and down that the Warp was calmer here than in most systems, which also meant that no hints of witchcraft or sorcery was present.
And so, just like the two times before, he'd gathered up a squad to investigate the jungle when his combead squawked to life.
"Inquisitor Rathus, sir. Something weird just pinged on the ship sensors!" Technician Markus said. "It looks like a comet, but the mass and material it's made of are impossible. Some of the readings it's giving off... I don't know. The orbit's weird too. Plotting it out, it should have slammed into the star millennia ago. Shall we send a lander to investigate?"
"No. I'll return to the ship and have a look myself; if it's as impossible as you say it is, the whole thing's probably xeno heresy, and it might be a clue as to the constant disappearances." the Inquisitor answered, turning to his squad and issuing their new orders. As he did, he was overcome with the certainty that something was watching him, planning his demise. Rather than experience whatever nightmare beast wanted to hunt him for dinner, he hastened back to the lander, taking a calming breath as the relaxing rattling banging of the thrusters igniting signaled his departure from that planet.
Hours later, staring at the surface of the comet beneath his feet, the Inquisitor found himself swearing to the Emperor again. One entire side of the comet had been flattened perfectly smooth, to within a microscopic range, and despite the likely centuries that had passed since this had occurred, it was still perfectly flat. No stray ice particles, no pock marks from the detritus of space, nothing. The rest of the comet still bore plenty of impacts, and was coated in the layers of jagged rhyme that was so typical of stray stone flying through space. More unpleasant still was the small iconographic plaque centered perfectly on the surface. It's surface was solid gold, and carved in strange reptilian shapes, jagged angles and perfectly clean whorls. His Psyker had babbled something incoherent about croaking and then immediately began to do something Warp-ish as soon as he'd seen the surface of the plaque. Rathus was now down a psyker, and his tech priest was complaining that they couldn't get any readings about the plaque except for the obviously gold surface of it.
Since the plaque was firmly affixed to the comet, and the comet was too large to bring into his ship, Rathus had his tech priest take several pictures, sent them off to the Ordo Xenos to see if they knew anything, and settled his vessel into the same orbit as the comet.
-------
Inquisitor Matteus was curious; Sector Aszan was known to be a barren backwater, with only a single garden world to draw attention of any kind, and no noted presence of xenos in the area nor signs of Chaos incursions. Yet three settlement attempts had vanished in complete silence, and the previous Inquisitor had likewise vanished after sending the Ordo Xenos several images of a single gold plaque resting on, the message had claimed, an oddly carved comet.
Inquisitor Rathus was furious, livid, and more than a little frustrated. Sector Aszan was, largely, a barren backwater with nothing of worth. Except, unfortunately, for the planet Aszan itself, which was a garden world, and one that several arms of the impossible Imperium bureaucracy wanted settled. And it had been. Three times now. And every time it was settled, less than a decade later, every last citizen would be missing, likely dead, and the settlement itself would be so overgrown that anyone would swear it had been centuries since anyone had walked the ruins. And every time, he'd be called in to figure out what happened since he had been the one unlucky enough to be assigned it the first time.
His ship's sensors weren't the most advanced the techpriests could produce, but they were certainly capable enough. His psyker was more than a match for the average demon-worshipping cult leader. His crew were drawn from those that had endured the rigors of countless different Death Worlds and survived, and he himself had seen dozens of different xeno horrors and killed each and every one of them. By all rights, he should have been capable of uncovering whatever was going on. But every time he arrived, his men would find no hints of hostile action, his sensors would pick up none of the usual traces of ships in or out of the planet's atmosphere, and the psyker would swear up and down that the Warp was calmer here than in most systems, which also meant that no hints of witchcraft or sorcery was present.
And so, just like the two times before, he'd gathered up a squad to investigate the jungle when his combead squawked to life.
"Inquisitor Rathus, sir. Something weird just pinged on the ship sensors!" Technician Markus said. "It looks like a comet, but the mass and material it's made of are impossible. Some of the readings it's giving off... I don't know. The orbit's weird too. Plotting it out, it should have slammed into the star millennia ago. Shall we send a lander to investigate?"
"No. I'll return to the ship and have a look myself; if it's as impossible as you say it is, the whole thing's probably xeno heresy, and it might be a clue as to the constant disappearances." the Inquisitor answered, turning to his squad and issuing their new orders. As he did, he was overcome with the certainty that something was watching him, planning his demise. Rather than experience whatever nightmare beast wanted to hunt him for dinner, he hastened back to the lander, taking a calming breath as the relaxing rattling banging of the thrusters igniting signaled his departure from that planet.
Hours later, staring at the surface of the comet beneath his feet, the Inquisitor found himself swearing to the Emperor again. One entire side of the comet had been flattened perfectly smooth, to within a microscopic range, and despite the likely centuries that had passed since this had occurred, it was still perfectly flat. No stray ice particles, no pock marks from the detritus of space, nothing. The rest of the comet still bore plenty of impacts, and was coated in the layers of jagged rhyme that was so typical of stray stone flying through space. More unpleasant still was the small iconographic plaque centered perfectly on the surface. It's surface was solid gold, and carved in strange reptilian shapes, jagged angles and perfectly clean whorls. His Psyker had babbled something incoherent about croaking and then immediately began to do something Warp-ish as soon as he'd seen the surface of the plaque. Rathus was now down a psyker, and his tech priest was complaining that they couldn't get any readings about the plaque except for the obviously gold surface of it.
Since the plaque was firmly affixed to the comet, and the comet was too large to bring into his ship, Rathus had his tech priest take several pictures, sent them off to the Ordo Xenos to see if they knew anything, and settled his vessel into the same orbit as the comet.
-------
Inquisitor Matteus was curious; Sector Aszan was known to be a barren backwater, with only a single garden world to draw attention of any kind, and no noted presence of xenos in the area nor signs of Chaos incursions. Yet three settlement attempts had vanished in complete silence, and the previous Inquisitor had likewise vanished after sending the Ordo Xenos several images of a single gold plaque resting on, the message had claimed, an oddly carved comet.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
By the way...
What is the point of all this?
I'm going to be candid, I find it very irritating that you're bringing this up in this way. If you want the ability to persuade me of things, then show me a little bit of respect. Don't act as if my hopes for successes make me a fool when I have been as active as any of us, if not more so, in trying to come up with effective plans to resolve the war within the limits of the tools at our disposal.
Are you SERIOUSLY going to come in here busting my balls because a month ago in real life I expressed HOPE that the war would be over quickly?
What is the point of all this?
I'm going to be candid, I find it very irritating that you're bringing this up in this way. If you want the ability to persuade me of things, then show me a little bit of respect. Don't act as if my hopes for successes make me a fool when I have been as active as any of us, if not more so, in trying to come up with effective plans to resolve the war within the limits of the tools at our disposal.
- Location
- Not here. Maybe on SB.
That's possible indeed. But don't forget - both "Guardian" and "Counterattack" have assasinations ready for both warbossess, and that raise chances of action loss considerably.
I think that raise the chance that both Bosses will get bored of that and go to personally krump each other.
You can add "If Gardakka will kill Urdgob before our assassins, reassign them on killing Gardakka's Underbosses" or something like that.
Because if you want to kill someone in battle, you need to have said someone in battle. And with less officers to command he will be forced to more often go to the battlefield to command himself... And since he's ork he only need an excuse.
As I said above, I think there also "They both get bored of that shit and go for the duel". Most unfortunate scenario for us, because means less casualties among the orks. But not really something we can do about it... Only if we kill both of them around the start of the turn, but I don't sure if it even possible - assassination need time to be planned and prepared.
But your arguments sounds reasonable. I'll sleep on it before deciding, though.
???
Sorry, I can't understand your point here. I mentioned, that
You said
I bring a couple of quotes to show you, that there indeed been people who hoped for it (and I solemnly swear I didn't search for your posts on purpose, if you suspect it). And, while I'm on it, I apologize that misread that post and didn't notice "expect" instead of "hoped" until now.
You start to accuse me for cherrypicking and tried to prove that the quotes provided by me don't mean anything.
Then I just answered to your post. It been pretty clear that you either misunderstood or misread my post(s), and I don't like to leave misunderstanding.
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Nix's Warden
Welcome to Hades
- Location
- United States
Tally Ho
- Location
- Here & There
[X] Plan Oh No There Goes Deffkloud
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
So. The latest episode of If The Emperor Had A Text To Speech Device dropped recently. In it, the Starchild is apparently so compassionate and pleasant, that while his suffering could singlehandedly power Commoragh, unless you can break through and make him lose his cool, his nice-cancer was killing the Dark Eldar through mere proximity, and the golden aura was gradually suffusing the entire city. To the point multitudes of them melt on screen, do things like free their slaves, etc. Vect manages to hang on long enough to note that he'd never felt better despite being reduced to skeleton in agonizing pain, and having failed to cause suffering with the usual Dark Eldar soul weirdness or a short-lived breakdown where he underlined the existential terror of himself and the Dark Eldar as a whole, and then finally breaks through by noting that, rather than simply sending the one guy intended to be the humans' champion in the imminent arena fight, he'd just had them all dumped there. He actually becomes irritated when this works, because he finally found a worthy foe, someone who very nearly killed him and destroyed his life's work(which he strong suggested was what he really wanted deep down), because he finds something like compassion and incredibly pathetic weakness.
Notably, the thronebound version of Emps, who has been watching the whole time via his connection to the soulshard, noted that this was why he'd ripped the Starchild out in the first place, and in an earlier episode, found the idea of anyone trusting the Dark Eldar ridiculous simply based on how sketchy they looked. Is this at all useful @Xantalos ?
Notably, the thronebound version of Emps, who has been watching the whole time via his connection to the soulshard, noted that this was why he'd ripped the Starchild out in the first place, and in an earlier episode, found the idea of anyone trusting the Dark Eldar ridiculous simply based on how sketchy they looked. Is this at all useful @Xantalos ?
Xantalos
Turtle-Speed Writing
I saw that! Good episode, neat bit of characterization leaking into the powers of the characters. While this stuff likely won't make a huge impact on my treatment of the Drukhari here, it is a neat experience to see them rendered like that.
Not that you guys would be able to pull anything like that off, you're more the 'radiates depths of boundless cosmic grumpiness' sorts.
Gonna tentatively say vote's open till Friday, but I might close it sooner if the thread dies down.
Not that you guys would be able to pull anything like that off, you're more the 'radiates depths of boundless cosmic grumpiness' sorts.
Gonna tentatively say vote's open till Friday, but I might close it sooner if the thread dies down.
KnightofTempest
The Man who would be King
- Location
- Chicago
lol I like the idea that the Slann radiate cosmic grumpiness. . .
Grumpy toad men lol
Grumpy toad men lol
- Location
- United states of america
Wow, empathy and compassion literally kills DE. I swear building halo ring sized empathy devices would literally kill 40k
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Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean... you're not too far off in spirit.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Orks get bored when they have no fighting to do. Urdgob is surrounded by enemies on all sides, Gardakka is surrounded by enemies on three sides out of four.
The mere existence of a rival warboss roughly equal in strength does not automatically result in them fighting a duel if that would require them to go out of their way to do so.
Furthermore, remember that just last time we had a war turn vote, Urdgob was gaining territory at Gardakka's expense! If we'd been having this conversation a year or so of game time ago, we might very well be debating whether we should worry about Urdgob taking over Gardakka's forces, and indeed some of us were.
It's possible that Gardakka will focus on Urdgob hard enough to succeed in conquering him. I'm not saying that can't happen. But even if it does, my overall strategy in Oh No There Goes Deffkloud still more or less works. And if it doesn't, then assassinating Urdgob becomes all the more important, because otherwise Urdgob will be left with an intact (if shrunken) force and be in an excellent position to unite the WAAAGH!
By contrast, Gardakka will be taking heavy blows under my war plan, and will not be so well equipped, even if he's the only warboss left standing. Challengers to his authority are more likely to arise.
If Gardakka kills Urdgob, Urdgob's underbosses will flip to serve him. Killing them will serve no real purpose on a strategic level. To get anything useful out of the action we'd have to flip the skinks to killing Gardakka in that scenario, and that is probably too opportunistic for @Xantalos to allow. After all, each of these assassination attacks takes time and prep work to set up; you can't exactly reroute them on the fly.
I also don't think it's very likely that Gardakka will succeed in killing Urdgob in the time available, and that it's not worth fucking around with needlessly complicated write-in votes. If we end up wasting a city action, we waste a city action; we have dozens and will get more and the wastage won't stop us from hitting Mag 3 web in the Turn 12-13 transition, so whatever.
Whatever problems Gardakka and Urdgob have, boredom is not one of them.
Also, it is very out of character for these kinds of orks to fight a personal duel and not bring their armies along for the ride. Remember that orks like to fight, and do not view "a bunch of my subordinates died in battle" as being a bad thing as long as their side wins. There will be no challenges "to prevent a needless effusion of blood." And with lizardmen and Thunder Lizards to fight, there won't be much boredom for the orks this turn either.