So, just noticed that this thread was updated again, and I just have to say that it's really lucky the Lizardmen are immortal, and they grow stronger with age, cause I feel like they're gonna need it in order to actually make it to the end of this quest. :lol:

Though, jokes aside, I really am glad that the new chapter was posted, as this is one of the best quests on the site, along with Skaven quest.
 
[] Gill'o'tin the Old One
-Hexoatl
-- Commander: Sky Master Tiktaq'to
---Commander Focus: Ambush Enemy Reinforcements
--Focus: Destruction of High-Value Targets
--Target: Skarstuf Blitzrippa
--Slann:
---10 4th Gen, 50 5th Gen: Keep the Skies Clear
---1 4th Gen, 20 5th Gen: Nuke From Afar
--Special: The Quango

-Itza
--Commander: Eternity Warden Chakax
---Commander Focus: Coordinate Slann Defenses
--Focus: Destruction of Enemy Forces
--Target: Skarstuf Blitzrippa
--Slann:
---100 5th Gen: Engage in Battle
--- 3 4th Gen, 90 5th Gen: Nuke From Afar
---Special: 5 Thunder Lizards


-Xlanhuapec
--Commander: Scaled Prophet Teninhuan
--- Commander Focus: Ambush Enemy Reinforcements
--Focus: Conquest of Enemy Territory
--Target: Skarstuf Blitzrippa
--Slann:
---1 4th Gen, 20 5th Gen: Nuke From Afar

-Tlaxtlan
--Commander: Kroq-Gar
--- Commander Focus: Duel Enemy Leaders/Mages/Etc
--Focus: Destruction of High-value Targets
--Target: Skarstuf Blitzrippa
--Slann:
---1 3rd Gen, 3 4th Gen: Buff Decapitation Force
---2 4th Gen, 10 5th Gen: Find Enemy Leaders
---5 4th Gen, 20 5th Gen: Teleport Decapitation Forces into (and if necessary out of) place
---1 4th Gen, 10 5th Gen: Nuke From Afar
--Special: 5 Thunder Lizards

Mazdamundi Ritual: Targeting Skarstuff Blizrippa and Gardakka Worldhamma
The goal with this plan is to take advantage of the Waaaagh Avatar effect we discovered earlier. It focuses on teleporting Kroq-Gar into enemy leaders and buffing him, hopefully ending the first stage of the war soon after it begins. If it works as well as I think it will, we can then go for a repeat on the next warboss.
My only quibble is that I think that we might want to focus the Mag 2 ritual on one of {Gardakka, Urdgob}, preferably Gardakka. Gardakka is otherwise almost unengaged, and I suspect that even half of a Mag 2 may not do enough damage to stop him from interfering in the war effort later in the campaign. If we zap Gardakka with the whole ritual, though, it'll damage him a lot more, and the other unengaged ork warbosses will be more tempted to seize territory at his expense rather than helping Skarstuf.

Urdgob is already under some pressure from the Ayacmanik and seven Thunder Lizards, so he's less likely to take time out to hit us while reeling under the effects of half a Mag 2, but if we want to get any benefits from infighting between him and Gardakka we probably want to not hit him for that same reason.

The ritual doesn't help much with "draw out Skarstuf to decapitate his faction," though, because either it straight-up kills him or it doesn't. So I figure to concentrate our armies and most of our support on Skarstuf while using the geomantic ritual (and if possible the Quango) to keep the other ork warbosses in the backfield too busy to help him much.

The runty warboss gets ignored, of course, but I'm not too worried about which way he jumps.

Right, so here's my plan:

[] Plan: Slow Rolling Victory
-Target: Skarstuf Blitzrippa
- Forces:
-- 2 Thunder Lizard
-- Legions of Hexoatl (Prioritize Conquering Territory)
--- 2 Fourth Generation Slann, 31 Fifth Generation Slann (Engage in Battle)
-- Legions of Xlanhuapec (Prioritize Destroying Enemy Forces)
--- 3 Fourth Generation Slann, 40 Fifth Generation Slann (Swatting Aircraft out of the Sky)
--- 4 Fourth Generation Slann, 30 Fifth Generation Slann (Nuke From Afar)
--- Kroq-Gar (Duel Enemy Leaders)
---- 2 Fourth Generation Slann (Aid Kroq-Gar)
-- Strategic Notes: Begin operations towards the coast, in the northwest of Sakrstuf's territory, with a focus initially on creating a line of relatively secure territory and then expanding south.

- Target: Gardakka Worldhamma
- Forces:
-- 4 Thunder Lizards
-- 1 Quango
-- Legions of Itza (Prioritize Destroying High-Value Targets)
-- Eternity Warden Chakax (Coordinate Slann Defenses)
--- 4 Fourth Generation Slann, 40 Fifth Generation Slann (Swatting Aircraft out of the Sky)
--- 1 Third Generation Slann, 50 Fifth Generation Slann (Engage in Battle)
--- 3 Fourth Generation Slann, 30 Fifth Generation Slann (Nuke From Afar)
-- Legions of Tlaxtlan (Prioritize Destroying High-Value Targets)
--- Scaled Prophet Teninhuan (Destroy Enemy Factories)
--- Sky Master Tiktaq'to (Ambush Enemy Reinforcements)
--- 5 Fourth Generation Slann, 40 Fifth Generation Slann (Swatting Aircraft out of the Sky)
--- 50 Fifth Generation Slann (Engage in Battle)
-- Strategic Notes: Proceed to Gardakka's territory from the west, through Skarstuf's - ideally former - territory, and push fast and hard to hit rearline positions facing Lizardmen territory to weaken forward facing positions. Targeted mostly towards destruction of factories, strongholds, lieutenants, etc.

- Magnitude 2 Geomantic Ritual
- Target Territory of Skarstuf Blitzrippa and Gardakka Worldhamma

- Target: Urdgob Noseskorcha
- Forces: 4 Thunder Lizards

Fundamentally, while I don't want us to stretch ourselves thin, I also think there's something of a risk in over committing to a single target because Gardakka and Urdgob are both in positions of significant strength at the moment and are looking to continue that trend - so if we don't put some pressure on them we'll only be facing a strong opponent when we do and honestly I don't view the Geomantic Rituals as being sufficient to deal with the matter. It's basically just not the tool for what we're trying to do here; eliminate the threat without unduly disrupting the landscape and/or causing ourselves future problems. To that end, I intentionally spread the damage of the initial hit out across both Skarstuf's and Gardakka's territory, which should help us wrap up Skarstuf quicker as well as making it easier for our forces to punch deep into the Gardakka's rearline.

Four Thunder Lizards are diverted towards Urdgob's territory in order to tie up more of his forces so they can't take as much advantage of our own attacks on Gardakka. Half again as many Thunder Lizard's as he's already facing should be pretty effective I think.

Edit: Forgot to vote for my own plan.
[] Plan: Slow Rolling Victory
I dunno. Again, I think spreading the effects of the Mag 2 across multiple warbosses' territory probably reduces the actual effect on either of them pretty significantly, and decreases the likelihood of any decisive internecine fighting between them doing much to weaken one or the other. I also think that thinning out the forces that make contact with Skarstuf directly by such a large margin is a dangerous gamble, and that trying to push only 1-2 million troops into Gardakka's rearline is likewise a gamble.

I want to make sure Skarstuf is finished before either of the other two big bosses react on a major scale. Escalating Thunder Lizard attacks on Urdgob to pin him better isn't a bad idea, though, if we're allowed to do it... then again, I'm not sure I want Urdgob totally pinned, only mostly pinned. He'd have to strike through the runty warboss's territory to get at us, after all, which wouldn't be a bad thing, and if he takes bites out of an injured Gardakka that's probably for the best.

We are vastly outnumbered, but better led and organized. We must not bull our way to thru the Orks.

We must observe Schwerpunkt and set goals of encircling large enemy formations. If the enemy attempts to concentrate for a counterattack we can nuke them via ritual.

We pincer the enemy as many times as we need and reduce the pockets.
I think you grossly overestimate the effectiveness of World War Two blitzkrieg tactics, because you are basically just stealing Erwin Rommel's lecture notes there. :p

Problems with your plan as outlined:

1) "Schwerpunkt" is, in and of itself, a recipe for getting surrounded if you arbitrarily decide that only one place along the lines matters. I'm pretty sure Kursk was supposed to be a "Schwerpunkt" for the Germans' 1943 Eastern Front strategy, and look how that turned out. :p

2) We only get two shots with geomantic rituals, and one is the preparatory bombardment for the entire campaign. We can't use them every time an enemy force concentrates.

3) If you encircle a large enemy formation when it outnumbers you this badly, you're screwing yourself. If the enemy is in range, so are you. If they're trapped behind your lines, you're trapped behind their lines. And since orks' relationship with logistics is a lot more... forgiving... than that of industrialized human armies, encircling them and cutting their supply lines doesn't destroy their strength that quickly or effectively.

4) We don't actually have a mobility advantage, which is key to breakthrough/encirclement tactics. They have planes and trucks; we have guys riding triceratops and pterodactyl cavalry. Honestly, our best bet at the operational level is probably elastic defense- when a large ork army comes for us, start falling back to draw them into traps, areas the slann have already prepared to turn into firestorms, and field fortifications where our rifleskinks are dug in and protected from enemy artillery.
 
We have to be on the offensive firstly.
Secondly we can't fight a war of attrition with the orks.
Thirdly the orks may have planes and trucks but if it can't be where it needs to be it won't matter.
Fourthly our nuclear option is limited and exploiting the opportunity it would give is likewise limited.

We don't even need to do massive pockets, just enough we can whittle down ork numbers reliably.
 
I get that the main concern of everybody here is to aquire territory and stop the Orks from, literally, spreading, but I feel like some of you are overlooking some information.
1.) One of the Orks will unify the rest within a decade. Gardakka seems to be in the best position for this, since he can reach the three other territories and is not terribly under pressure from outside forces (aka. the Godzillas and the parasites.)
2.) A lot of you are talking about the operational speed, but are advocating territorial conquest which is, as I estimate it, the slowest of the three options to progress.
After all, we wouldn't go after Ork concentrations or singular bosses, but instead spread out and cleanse the entire region, which is bad per se as a long term plan, but it does give the other bosses a lot of time to react.
3.) There is currently only one Ork-Boss not occupied with other problems, that might be a serious hindrance to him, but he is also the one the furthest away from our position.
4.) Regarding pincer strikes, encirclements and similar tactics. Great if you can pull them of, absolutely horrid if something goes wrong and you have to assume that there is at least one Ork to ensure something goes wrong, even with our Slann capable of reading the field.
5.) If we beat the Ork bosses in single combat we shatter their moral and the mop up becomes significantly easier.
6.) Our normal troop numbers get drowned by theirs, but our elite troops will absolutely stomp on the Orkish equivalents.

- Short term goals:
--> Shatter the Ork horde
--> destroy their production capabilities
--> keep the war as quick as possible, the first strike must be so decisive, that the rest of the war is literally a mop up. Otherwise they will just combine under one banner again.

- Long term goals:
--> Get rid of every spore

The basic plan that I propose would be to either have kill teams for the Bosses (single combat) and then spread out and kill the hordes or to combine our armies in the west, sweep east and then south (again focus on single combat). The Problem is, that we can't readily influence the north eastern Orks apart from our rituals, but they are the group that must be destroyed immediately, since all others are already under pressure.

Or we just let them unite and then kill the warboss in single combat? Meh, so many ways to deal with this... Just thinking that we should use the information we got in the previous chapter regarding the warpfield.
 
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I get that the main concern of everybody here is to aquire territory and stop the Orks from, literally, spreading, but I feel like some of you are overlooking some information.
1.) One of the Orks will unify the rest within a decade. Gardakka seems to be in the best position for this, since he can reach the three other territories and is not terribly under pressure from outside forces (aka. the Godzillas and the parasites.)
3.) There is currently only one Ork-Boss not occupied with other problems, that might be a serious hindrance to him, but he is also the one the furthest away from our position.
This is why I favor hitting Gardakka with the Mag 2; it knocks him back badly and reduces his advantage over the other ork factions, making it less likely that he'll pull off any impressive feats of reunification or rally a major horde against us this turn before we have time to hit him. It may even kill him.

- Short term goals:
--> Shatter the Ork horde
--> destroy their production capabilities
--> keep the war as quick as possible, the first strike must be so decisive, that the rest of the war is literally a mop up. Otherwise they will just combine under one banner again.
The problem is, we can't necessarily accomplish all that. Making the war quick enough that orks distant from our field army cannot rally doesn't strike me as practical; our ability to teleport champions around to fight warbosses seems more like a 'front lines only' option.

Anyway, gonna post a plan soon; watch this space.
 
My only quibble is that I think that we might want to focus the Mag 2 ritual on one of {Gardakka, Urdgob}, preferably Gardakka. Gardakka is otherwise almost unengaged, and I suspect that even half of a Mag 2 may not do enough damage to stop him from interfering in the war effort later in the campaign. If we zap Gardakka with the whole ritual, though, it'll damage him a lot more, and the other unengaged ork warbosses will be more tempted to seize territory at his expense rather than helping Skarstuf.

Urdgob is already under some pressure from the Ayacmanik and seven Thunder Lizards, so he's less likely to take time out to hit us while reeling under the effects of half a Mag 2, but if we want to get any benefits from infighting between him and Gardakka we probably want to not hit him for that same reason.

The ritual doesn't help much with "draw out Skarstuf to decapitate his faction," though, because either it straight-up kills him or it doesn't. So I figure to concentrate our armies and most of our support on Skarstuf while using the geomantic ritual (and if possible the Quango) to keep the other ork warbosses in the backfield too busy to help him much.

The runty warboss gets ignored, of course, but I'm not too worried about which way he jumps.

See, I'm worried about weakening any one of them too much because that would allow the other to gobble up their territory. Orks don't really have to worry about issues that normal factions might have to with territory acquisition, especially when that territory is already claimed by orks, so any gain by one makes them that much stronger in short order and I'm already plenty worried about dealing with the larger ork factions. I want them to stay generally where they are.

I don't think that's something we'll be able to count on but It's why I don't want to concentrate the full Mag 2 on just a single target. One of the other spreads for the Ritual I was (am?) considering was Gardakka and Urdgob, just to ensure that both were basically just as devastated as each other. But I've judged that with the additional Thunder Lizards sent his his territory he'll already be having enough problems to tie him up. Also, I don't expect the Mag 2 to kill any Warboss.

That's just not it's purpose. It never was.

Unless we go for some as indiscriminately destructive as the Tidal Wave of last turn we should expect each and every Warboss to be able to survive the effects of the ritual unscathed.

Furthermore, while dueling and killing ork leaders has the benefit of breaking moral and unit of any given Waaagh! it also has the perverse effect of inducing the orks to scatter. If we already control the territory they are scattering into that's not so much of a problem because we can pursue them at our leisure, but with a lot of uncontrolled territory and territory controlled by other orks we risk having to deal with another - geographically distinct - faction later or ending up bolstering one of our remaining foes if we do it too early. That's part of why I want to start going after Gardakka. If we're already attacking him ti makes it harder for fleeing orks to link up easily, and that leaves Zoggrod the only other easy option, which while still not optimal is at least an acceptable destination given his relative weakness.
 
See, I'm worried about weakening any one of them too much because that would allow the other to gobble up their territory. Orks don't really have to worry about issues that normal factions might have to with territory acquisition, especially when that territory is already claimed by orks, so any gain by one makes them that much stronger in short order and I'm already plenty worried about dealing with the larger ork factions. I want them to stay generally where they are.

I don't think that's something we'll be able to count on but It's why I don't want to concentrate the full Mag 2 on just a single target. One of the other spreads for the Ritual I was (am?) considering was Gardakka and Urdgob, just to ensure that both were basically just as devastated as each other. But I've judged that with the additional Thunder Lizards sent his his territory he'll already be having enough problems to tie him up.
The thing is, the Thunder Lizards have to be attached to a legion, so to hit the Big Two warbosses with Thunder Lizards we have to detach a legion... which means that the big warbosses can come to grips.

My idea is that the strongest contender (Gardakka) gets hit with the Mag 2, which will weaken him too much for him to really be able to overthrow another warboss any time soon. Urdgob gets pinned in place by the Thunder Lizards he's already fighting, plus the Quango, plus whatever the Ayacmanik are still doing. At most he might be able to expand his territory a little, but not much. Zoggrod might actually up and jump us, but that's why I parked our biggest legion on the south flank of our invasion force with orders to scorch the earth and generally make sure they have secure, defensible territory to hold against him.

Also, I don't expect the Mag 2 to kill any Warboss. That's just not it's purpose. It never was.
I don't expect it, but it could. Having a bunch of F5 tornadoes or a pyroclastic flow sweep through your capital city is nasty enough that even a warboss might get killed from it. I figure that the warbosses will have to, like, roll a personal survival check or something. I don't expect it to kill Gardakka, but if it does, it'll be a welcome development.

I don't want to make too many assumptions about the strength of the warbosses' plot shielding, in other words.

Furthermore, while dueling and killing ork leaders has the benefit of breaking moral and unit of any given Waaagh! it also has the perverse effect of inducing the orks to scatter. If we already control the territory they are scattering into that's not so much of a problem because we can pursue them at our leisure, but with a lot of uncontrolled territory and territory controlled by other orks we risk having to deal with another - geographically distinct - faction later or ending up bolstering one of our remaining foes if we do it too early. That's part of why I want to start going after Gardakka. If we're already attacking him ti makes it harder for fleeing orks to link up easily, and that leaves Zoggrod the only other easy option, which while still not optimal is at least an acceptable destination given his relative weakness.
I don't think we can actually secure enough ground in Gardakka's territory for that to work. We'll end up with a big "tongue" of occupied territory pushing deep into the orks' zone. Orks we beat can scatter away from us in any direction (except into the ocean if we're on the coast).

If we really want to do as you describe, we need to clear Skarstuf's territory first... which is the main focus of the armies for me. Holding back half the army against him and then throwing it at Gardakka (actually more than half since Itza's force is as big as any two other cities' legions put together) means there just won't be as much lizardpower fighting Skarstuf, so getting there is harder.

We're setting ourselves up for a "Dien Bien Phu" situation where we have lots of powerful weapons but are effectively surrounded in hostile territory, with too few soldiers to secure a corridor back to our base of operations.
 
[X] Plan Kick 'em in the Ass, Punch 'em in the Teeth

In my plan, we're using the ritual to hit the warboss farthest from us, then sending our whole army to hit the warboss closest to us. The plan name practically wrote itself...

...
...

Looking at the warbeast lineup, Hexoatl's forces (~750k saurus, other support proportionate) favor the faster, carnivorous landmonsters and aerial dinosaurs including some loquatl, but disfavor the big herbivores.

Itza (~1250k) favors bulkier slow dinosaurs. Xlanhuapec (~500k) has strength in terradons and coatl (one of the few airborne things that I don't think dakkajets can trivially counter) but lacks big dinosaurs, and Tlaxtlan has the greatest strength in Dread Saurians, who are effectively our superheavy armor (think of them as Baneblades to the Thunder Lizards' titans).

This influences my thinking a bit.

Hexoatl's the most mobile element and the one with relatively good air cover, at least in the "ablative meatshield" sense.

Itza is the brute squad- big troop numbers, relatively ponderous, but lots of muscle and heavy metal. Itza also has lots of salamander flamethrower-beasts.

Xlanhuapec is a bit more esoteric and special-ops, with respectable air cover, but smaller and less heavily armed than Hexoatl.

And Tlaxtlan has the big nasties in the form of Dread Carnosaurs, while again being smaller. Tlaxtlan has few salamanders, though.



So this plan basically has the numerically strongest force, the Legion of Itza, secure territory in the south (in case Zoggrod gets ideas). We may encounter a warboss here, so Chak'ax is there to duel.

It then has Kroq-Gar lead the Legion of Hexoatl against Skarstuf's capital- this is where we'd be likely to find the warboss, so it's a good place for duelists too. Xlanhuapec and Tlaxtlan's smaller legions gang up to hit the center of Skartuf's territory, assaulting and securing it under Tiqtaq'to and Teninhuan.

The slann are divided roughly evenly among the three army groups, with a balance of responsibilites including anti-air and anti-shaman defense, large numbers of Fifth Spawning slann fanning out to directly support the troops, and a solid reserve hanging back to nuke enemy force concentrations.

The overall plan here is to sweep through, wreck, and conquer Skarstuf's territory as much as possible while warding off any opportunistic flank attack from Zoggrod. Meanwhile, Gardakka is hopefully too busy digging out from the rubble of the Mag 2 to do much else right away.

And Urdgob is getting hit from all sides including straight up by kaiju and probably Ayacmanik, making it relatively unlikely that he'll attack us, since he'd have to go through Zoggrod or Gardakka's territory to get to us anyway.



[] Plan Kick 'em in the Ass, Punch 'em in the Teeth
-[] Geomantic Ritual: Magnitude 2 ritual to devastate the territory of Gardakka Worldhamma.
-[] Quango: Attack the territory of Urdgob Noseskorcha.

-[] Legion of Itza: Attack Skarstuf Blitzrippa from the southern flank. Prioritize conquest of enemy territory.
-[] Legion of Hexoatl: Attack Skarstuf Blitzrippa closer to the coast. Prioritize destruction of high-value targets, such as his capital which is along the coast.
-[] Legion of Xlanhuapec: Attack Skarstuf Blitzrippa from the center. Prioritize destruction of enemy forces.
-[] Legion of Tlaxtlan: Attack Skarstuf Blitzrippa from the center. Prioritize conquest of enemy territory.

-[] Kroq-Gar: Lead the Legion of Hexoatl. Duel enemy leaders.
-[] Chakax: Lead the Legion of Itza. Duel enemy leaders.
-[] Tiqtaq'to: Lead the Legion of Xlanhuapec. Ambush enemy reinforcements.
-[] Teninhuan: Lead the Legion of Tlaxtlan. Destroy enemy factories.

-[] Thunder Lizards: Attach three Thunder Lizards each to Hexoatl on the north flank. Attach two to the legion of Itza on the south flank. Attach one each to the legions of Xlanhuapec and Tlaxtlan, which will be supporting each other in the center. Sic the remaining three on Urdgob, to supplement the uncontrolled ones already attacking him.

-[] Slann:
--[] Join the Legion of Itza. Nuke from afar. 1 3rd gen, 5 4th gen, 19 5th gen
--[] Join the Legion of Itza. Engage in battle. 60 5th gen
--[] Join the Legion of Itza. Teleport Chak'ax to duel enemy leaders. 2 4th gen
--[] Join the Legion of Itza. Contest enemy shamans. 10 5th gen
--[] Join the Legion of Itza. Destroy enemy aircraft. 15 5th gen

--[] Join the Legion of Hexoatl. Nuke from afar. 6 4th gen, 14 5th gen
--[] Join the Legion of Hexoatl. Engage in battle. 60 5th gen
--[] Join the Legion of Hexoatl. Teleport Kroq-Gar to duel enemy leaders. 2 4th gen
--[] Join the Legion of Hexoatl. Contest enemy shamans. 10 5th gen
--[] Join the Legion of Hexoatl. Destroy enemy aircraft. 20 5th gen

--[] Join the Legion of Xlanhuapec. Nuke from afar. 4 4th gen, 35 5th gen
--[] Join the Legion of Xlanhuapec. Contest enemy shamans. 8 5th gen,
--[] Join the Legion of Xlanhuapec. Destroy enemy aircraft. 8 5th gen
--[] Join the Legion of Tlaxtlan. Nuke from afar. 4 4th gen, 36 5th gen
--[] Join the Legion of Tlaxtlan. Contest enemy shamans. 8 5th gen
--[] Join the Legion of Tlaxtlan. Destroy enemy aircraft. 8 5th gen
 
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Draft of War Plan Green.


Slaan Distribution: 1 3rd Generation to attack to Legion of Tlaxtlan. 2 4th generation attached to each of the Legion of Xlanhuapec, Legion of Hexoatl, and Legion of Tlaxtlan. 17 4th generation to attach to the Legion of Itza. 77 5th Generation Slann to Legion of Hexoatl, 130 of the sam to the Legion of Itza, 51 to Legion of Xlanhuapec, 53 to legion of Tlaxtlan.

Skarstuf Blitzrippa- Legion of Xlanhuapec, Legion of Hexoatl, Legion of Tlaxtlan. 1 Thunder lizard the Xlanhuapec, 1 thunder lizard to Hexoatl, 3 to Legion of Tlaxtan.

The Plan is an en-echelon attack, starting with the legion of Hexoatl under Tiqtaq'to hitting SB's territory in 'the hock' the south-western corner of his territory. This phase is to place emphasis on Destruction of Enemy forces, to lure in reinforcements, and start an air-battle to suck in recon and attack planes. The next phase, the Legion of Xlanhuapec under Chakax, will assault 'the shoulder' of SB's territory a week later with it's northern flank being anchored by the already engaged thunder lizard. This phase will also be focused on army destruction. The combined efffect of the two phases is to suck in as many mobile ork reinforcements as possible, and empty out the seashore and the interior. The third phase, again delayed by a week from the Legion of Xlanhuapec's assault, will be the sea-side attack of the Legion of Tlaxtan, lead by Kroq-Gar himself. This is the mobile element, and it's job is to punch deep and roll up the entire front facing us by taking as much territory as possible, possibly dueling the Warboss if he sorties to fight. Accordingly, it has three thunder lizards, a third-generation Slann for AA and artillery work, and uses the legion with the most Horned Ones, Dread Saurians and Stegadons-heavy cavalry and superheavy assault beasts. Once the appropriate pockets in front of our other two legions form, dissolve these pockets and move up to Campaign Line Turquoise, to prepare to assault the line between the remnants of SB and GW in the south, with the goal of an assault on the Orkoid city located nearby. Forces to secure our lines north to the sea should also be dispatched, as formations can be moved into position.

Zoggrod Shakfang-Legion of Itza+5 Thunder Lizards. Capture Territory-all the territory.

Just roll over Zoggrod, he's not the real target-punch his ticket and move on to-

Campaign Line Rainbow: Urdgob Noseskorcha. Urdgob has one city right on his border with Zoggrod, and it's this force's job to shatter that city and capture the territory around it. If they are successful, they should then dig into defensive fortifications to the east and prepare to assist Campaign Line Turquoise to seize the next city.

 
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(numbers added for clarity of response -SJ)
1) We have to be on the offensive firstly.
2) Secondly we can't fight a war of attrition with the orks.
3) Thirdly the orks may have planes and trucks but if it can't be where it needs to be it won't matter.
4) Fourthly our nuclear option is limited and exploiting the opportunity it would give is likewise limited.

We don't even need to do massive pockets, just enough we can whittle down ork numbers reliably.
The problem with (1) is that "strategic offensive, tactical defensive" is a much better way to avoid wars of attrition than relying on being able to punch deep into their territory and somehow surround them and have that matter. If an ork army hits us and we can't just nuke the hell out of it with slann or geomancy or Thunder Lizards, it is much better for us to give ground temporarily and pound them than to let them get all lined up to charge us in melee or flatten us with artillery.

The problem with (2) is that it's meaningless; it's a slogan. The way not to fight a war of attrition with the orks is to do as much asymmetric damage to them as possible... which means that charging into the middle of their territory is not a good idea. You need a secure position from which to unleash the firepower of the slann and other long range or superheavy assets; if your army wades into their midst, you don't have that anymore.

(3) is even more meaningless. Like, seriously, what does that even mean? Is there some reliable way of denying the orks the ability to drive or fly around in their vehicles? Remember that ork vehicles often manage to operate with no fuel tank. You can't deprive them of the use of their machines by surrounding or outmaneuvering them, and since they have vehicles, you can't outmaneuver them in the first place.

(4) is true but, again, doesn't argue in favor of breakthrough-encirclement tactics. If you don't have the firepower to annihilate enemy forces that threaten to encircle and snap off your "spearhead," jabbing a spear deep into enemy territory is probably a bad idea on general principles.

Draft of War Plan Green.

Slaan Distribution: 1 3rd Generation to attack to Legion of Tlaxtlan. 2 4th generation attached to each of the Legion of Xlanhuapec, Legion of Hexoatl, and Legion of Tlaxtlan. 17 4th generation to attach to the Legion of Itza. 77 5th Generation Slann to Legion of Hexoatl, 130 of the sam to the Legion of Itza, 51 to Legion of Xlanhuapec, 53 to legion of Tlaxtlan.
OK, sounds like you're allocating slann proportionate to the numerical strength of each legion. This is reasonable, I suppose. Personally I put a slightly disproportionate number of slann with the Legion of Hexoatl, precisely because they're hitting important targets and don't have the Legion of Itza's sheer numbers.

Skarstuf Blitzrippa- Legion of Xlanhuapec, Legion of Hexoatl, Legion of Tlaxtlan. 1 Thunder lizard the Xlanhuapec, 1 thunder lizard to Hexoatl, 3 to Legion of Tlaxtan.

The Plan is an en-echelon attack, starting with the legion of Hexoatl under Tiqtaq'to hitting SB's territory in 'the hock' the south-western corner of his territory. This phase is to place emphasis on Destruction of Enemy forces, to lure in reinforcements, and start an air-battle to suck in recon and attack planes. The next phase, the Legion of Xlanhuapec under Chakax, will assault 'the shoulder' of SB's territory a week later with it's northern flank being anchored by the already engaged thunder lizard. This phase will also be focused on army destruction. The combined efffect of the two phases is to suck in as many mobile ork reinforcements as possible, and empty out the seashore and the interior. The third phase, again delayed by a week from the Legion of Xlanhuapec's assault, will be the sea-side attack of the Legion of Tlaxtan, lead by Kroq-Gar himself. This is the mobile element, and it's job is to punch deep and roll up the entire front facing us by taking as much territory as possible, possibly dueling the Warboss if he sorties to fight. Accordingly, it has three thunder lizards, a third-generation Slann for AA and artillery work, and uses the legion with the most Horned Ones, Dread Saurians and Stegadons-heavy cavalry and superheavy assault beasts. Once the appropriate pockets in front of our other two legions form, dissolve these pockets and move up to Campaign Line Turquoise, to prepare to assault the line between the remnants of SB and GW in the south, with the goal of an assault on the Orkoid city located nearby. Forces to secure our lines north to the sea should also be dispatched, as formations can be moved into position.

Zoggrod Shakfang-Legion of Itza+5 Thunder Lizards. Capture Territory-all the territory.

Just roll over Zoggrod, he's not the real target-punch his ticket and move on to-

Campaign Line Rainbow: Urdgob Noseskorcha. Urdgob has one city right on his border with Zoggrod, and it's this force's job to shatter that city and capture the territory around it. If they are successful, they should then dig into defensive fortifications to the east and prepare to assist Campaign Line Turquoise to seize the next city.
Hm.

Not bad. Not bad at all. It stretches our forces a bit too thin for my taste, hitting along a wider front by bringing "wreck Zoggrod and sweep on to start hitting Urdgob" into the opening phase of the war... but it's not a bad plan.

Though, uh, I think you forgot to say where the ritual would go. In your plan it should probably be Gardakka, as in mine, because otherwise he's unengaged and in a good position to snap up rear area territory from the other three warbosses we are assaulting under your plan.
 
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OK, sounds like you're allocating slann proportionate to the numerical strength of each legion. This is reasonable, I suppose. Personally I put a slightly disproportionate number of slann with the Legion of Hexoatl, precisely because they're hitting important targets and don't have the Legion of Itza's sheer numbers.

Hm.

Not bad. Not bad at all. It stretches our forces a bit too thin for my taste, hitting along a wider front by bringing "wreck Zoggrod and sweep on to start hitting Urdgob" into the opening phase of the war... but it's not a bad plan.

Though, uh, I think you forgot to say where the ritual would go. In your plan it should probably be Gardakka, as in mine, because otherwise he's unengaged and in a good position to snap up rear area territory from the other three warbosses we are assaulting under your plan.
We have to make the most of the element of surprise while we have it, hence my big, sweeping plans in tradition of Moltke and Napoleon.

I'm undecided on the ritual- maybe I'll drop it right behind the SB/GW line to distract them -right now I'm trying to upload an image of my John Maddened up map to show where I expect the lines to go.
 
We have to make the most of the element of surprise while we have it, hence my big, sweeping plans in tradition of Moltke and Napoleon.
Yeah. The problem is, I think we could really use those extra two million or so troops finishing off Skarstuf's territory before sweeping onward. It's a balancing act between concentration of force and the element of surprise.
 
[X] Plan Kick 'em in the Ass, Punch 'em in the Teeth

I'm a little leery of having quite so many slaan engaging in battle where they might die, but I've been wanting to put serious effort into beelining for slaan construction for a while - maybe people will pay attention to that idea if we start taking losses to our total slaanpower.
 
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[X] Plan Kick 'em in the Ass, Punch 'em in the Teeth
Let´s see where this goes. Also couldn't the parasites infest the thunder lizards or did I forget some detail that prevented them from doing that?
 
I want everyone to note that @Vehrec 's plan is pretty good by my own standards, assuming he's gonna use the Mag 2 to put Gardakka temporarily out of action like I hope he will. He spreads his forces wider than I like, but not so wide that it's necessarily hopeless, though I want to wait on that map modification he was talking about before really, y'know, endorsing it.

I still support my own plan over his, but I'm not so worried about what'll happen if he succeeds that I'm going to kick up a fuss about it.

I'm a little leery of having quite so many slaan engaging in battle where they might die, but I've been wanting to put serious effort into beelining for slaan construction for a while - maybe people will pay attention to that idea if we start taking losses to our total slaanpower.
If enough people push this issue, I'm prepared to pull back those 120 or so 5th-generation slann from the front lines.

On the other hand, I'm actually not that bothered about losing a few 5th-generation slann. The marginal change in our research abilities between now and the point where we figure out how to spawn new slann isn't going to be that large.

Slann are valuable, but not priceless. Not compared to "winning this campaign smoothly." And having 120 slann supporting our troops at the army corps level is really useful.

Let´s see where this goes. Also couldn't the parasites infest the thunder lizards or did I forget some detail that prevented them from doing that?
Their blood is fire and their central nervous systems are so large that a single grub cannot realistically control it all?

The Thunder Lizards have been rampaging around this planet for a century now; if the Ayacmanik could enslave one, they would have done so by now.
 
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Goodness me, not one but two more plans popping up? Joyous day! Work is turning out to be somewhat more busy than I anticipated, so I may have to delay analysis until tomorrow, however. I can answer questions and clear up some stuff today, though!
[X] Plan Kick 'em in the Ass, Punch 'em in the Teeth
Let´s see where this goes. Also couldn't the parasites infest the thunder lizards or did I forget some detail that prevented them from doing that?
They have white-hot plasma blood, that kinda discouraged most forms of parasitism.

Speaking of thunder lizards, I didn't realize I'd done this until now but they don't have to be attached to a particular legion, though they can be. Only requirement is that they be given a target to attack - CuttleFish2.0's plan is valid in this regard where he splits off 4 of them to attack Urdgob.

Finally, I love the amount of strategic analysis of potential enemy action going on. One thing I will note is that the 'one warboss will defeat the others' scenario that's currently going on is without your intervention - most likely scenario in the opinion of your Saurus commanders is that Gardakka or Urdgob will end up catching and defeating Zoggrod, using the extra orkpower thusly gained to wipe out Skarstuf before rolling up their other rival. Things will inevitably change once you start doing stuff, though.
 
If I may I suggest we attack the largest group first to keep them occupied. While the attack is going on their we utilize a series of decapitation strikes and mobile aerial and Saurus forces to finish up the smallest orks.
Keep the thunder lizards and quangos focus on the other two factions to prevent them from taking advantage of the chaos to grow
 
Speaking of thunder lizards, I didn't realize I'd done this until now but they don't have to be attached to a particular legion, though they can be. Only requirement is that they be given a target to attack - CuttleFish2.0's plan is valid in this regard where he splits off 4 of them to attack Urdgob.
Hm. In that case I might want to sic a few more Thunder Lizards on Zoggrod and Urdgob to keep them busy and tied down in their current territory.

Though having at least a few escorting each of our army groups, in order to secure their flanks and generally lay waste to things, seems like a good idea.

Finally, I love the amount of strategic analysis of potential enemy action going on.
Thanks!

One thing I will note is that the 'one warboss will defeat the others' scenario that's currently going on is without your intervention - most likely scenario in the opinion of your Saurus commanders is that Gardakka or Urdgob will end up catching and defeating Zoggrod, using the extra orkpower thusly gained to wipe out Skarstuf before rolling up their other rival. Things will inevitably change once you start doing stuff, though.
Yeah, I know.

The trick is, if we deliberately ramp up the pressure on the Big Two, and/or cripple them with an attack, we can at least slow this process down enough to take out Skarstuf ourselves.

If I may I suggest we attack the largest group first to keep them occupied. While the attack is going on their we utilize a series of decapitation strikes and mobile aerial and Saurus forces to finish up the smallest orks.
Keep the thunder lizards and quangos focus on the other two factions to prevent them from taking advantage of the chaos to grow
The problem with this approach is that the largest group is the one on the opposite side of their territory from us. Our cities are west of them, but the most numerous ork faction is on the east side of their territory. This is... undesirable, for purposes of mounting a major military offensive.

But aside from that, that's... actually basically my plan! Target the nearest faction (which is strong if not the strongest), while positioning our biggest army group to block any attacks from the weakest faction (which is next to our target).

And of the two strongest factions, the ones farthest away from us... we use the big Mag 2 geomantic ritual to wreck the stronger of the two, then maybe pile the Quango and even more Thunder Lizards (he's already fighting like 6-7) on the weaker of the two, to pin them in place and keep them busy.
 
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The thing is, the Thunder Lizards have to be attached to a legion, so to hit the Big Two warbosses with Thunder Lizards we have to detach a legion... which means that the big warbosses can come to grips.
Xan just confirmed this isn't the case, though upon rereading the original post it says it is. Somehow missed that in all the times I went back to it while forming my plan.
My idea is that the strongest contender (Gardakka) gets hit with the Mag 2, which will weaken him too much for him to really be able to overthrow another warboss any time soon. Urdgob gets pinned in place by the Thunder Lizards he's already fighting, plus the Quango, plus whatever the Ayacmanik are still doing. At most he might be able to expand his territory a little, but not much. Zoggrod might actually up and jump us, but that's why I parked our biggest legion on the south flank of our invasion force with orders to scorch the earth and generally make sure they have secure, defensible territory to hold against him.
Remember last turn Urdgob beat off two of the Thunder Lizards attacking him, so I don't actually think the current number have him anything close to pinned down. As for Zoggrod, he kind of actually can't jump us there's only a small portion of his territory that links up with Skarstuf's and he's already on the backfoot (relatively speaking) with two fronts with the major players. I'm just not concerned about the threat he poses, especially as the lacks the weapons/tools which I judge most dangerous to us (or at least has less of them than the others); air and artillery and gas weapons.
I don't expect it, but it could. Having a bunch of F5 tornadoes or a pyroclastic flow sweep through your capital city is nasty enough that even a warboss might get killed from it. I figure that the warbosses will have to, like, roll a personal survival check or something. I don't expect it to kill Gardakka, but if it does, it'll be a welcome development.

I don't want to make too many assumptions about the strength of the warbosses' plot shielding, in other words.

I don't think we can actually secure enough ground in Gardakka's territory for that to work. We'll end up with a big "tongue" of occupied territory pushing deep into the orks' zone. Orks we beat can scatter away from us in any direction (except into the ocean if we're on the coast).

If we really want to do as you describe, we need to clear Skarstuf's territory first... which is the main focus of the armies for me. Holding back half the army against him and then throwing it at Gardakka (actually more than half since Itza's force is as big as any two other cities' legions put together) means there just won't be as much lizardpower fighting Skarstuf, so getting there is harder.

We're setting ourselves up for a "Dien Bien Phu" situation where we have lots of powerful weapons but are effectively surrounded in hostile territory, with too few soldiers to secure a corridor back to our base of operations.
I mean this is an assumption on its own. Factoring it into our plans even as a hail Mary is the error in my opinion. My point was that we should go into the war fully expecting that our opening salvo will not perform an unlooked for decapitation strike and think and act accordingly. And fundamentally the power of the ritual is not in the bodies it can kill but in the chaos and disorder it can sow in our enemy. Which ties into my intention with the forces sent into Gardakka's territory - which is not primarily about gaining territory at this stage.

We'll do it when it's safe to do so, but my main intention is to hit deep and fast to expose vulnerabilities and fault lines - not just to keep the situation static. That's my basic fear with over concentrating on Skarstuf is that no matter how fast our campaign against him is wrapped up the other two will be basically recovered to their current strength by the time we can turn our attentions that way. Meaning we'll have eliminate one (or two depending on which exact plan) of the Warbosses, but only the weak ones, at the cost of losing the element of surprise and letting the other two recover and fully concentrate their attentions on us.

I'm not saying that my plan is the only one which won't lead to disaster or anything like that, I just think we need to be more aggressive in our posturing in order to make the most of the current situation.
 
The trick is, if we deliberately ramp up the pressure on the Big Two, and/or cripple them with an attack, we can at least slow this process down enough to take out Skarstuf ourselves.
I don't think we actually need to ramp the pressure up that much - from what I can tell the general pattern is a warboss nabs a little extra orkpower from Zoggrod and then uses that breathing room to snowball by taking from Skarstuf. Looting from Zoggrod alone isn't enough, it's the increase in looting ability gained from that that really makes the difference.

So by attacking Skarstuf ourselves and diminishing the total amount that can be looted, we also diminish the degree to which the balance between the Big Two can be tipped - we don't need to completely take out Skarstuf, we just need to destroy enough of his territory that neither of the Big Two can gain enough to finish the other off. Even just rendering Skarstuf down into a rump Waagh like Zoggrod would probably be enough to keep the orks divided into at least 2 camps.
 
I don't think we actually need to ramp the pressure up that much - from what I can tell the general pattern is a warboss nabs a little extra orkpower from Zoggrod and then uses that breathing room to snowball by taking from Skarstuf. Looting from Zoggrod alone isn't enough, it's the increase in looting ability gained from that that really makes the difference.

So by attacking Skarstuf ourselves and diminishing the total amount that can be looted, we also diminish the degree to which the balance between the Big Two can be tipped - we don't need to completely take out Skarstuf, we just need to destroy enough of his territory that neither of the Big Two can gain enough to finish the other off. Even just rendering Skarstuf down into a rump Waagh like Zoggrod would probably be enough to keep the orks divided into at least 2 camps.
I mean maybe, but we're planning to keep up the pressure and march further east, deeper into ork territory, as soon as we reasonably can.

So using our strategic weapons (the Mag 2 ritual and the kaiju) to weaken and distract our strong back-field opposition is still desirable. I don't just want them to be divided, I want them to be weakened, so that when our armies arrive on their frontiers, we don't encounter strong, united, well prepared opposition.

Remember last turn Urdgob beat off two of the Thunder Lizards attacking him, so I don't actually think the current number have him anything close to pinned down.
I figure that if he only managed to fend off two of them, then he probably had to work pretty hard to stop those two.

My objective here isn't to keep Urdgob entirely pinned in place and crushed by sheer weight of Thunder Lizards, it's just to do enough damage to him and keep his boyz busy enough that he can't casually redirect his entire horde off into some other territory. If he wants to pull together five million or so of the ladz from his backfield and send them to go pillage tornado-wrecked stretches of Worldhamma's territory, more power to him as far as I'm concerned.

As for Zoggrod, he kind of actually can't jump us there's only a small portion of his territory that links up with Skarstuf's and he's already on the backfoot (relatively speaking) with two fronts with the major players. I'm just not concerned about the threat he poses, especially as the lacks the weapons/tools which I judge most dangerous to us (or at least has less of them than the others); air and artillery and gas weapons.
What Zoggrod has is mobility; he's proto-Speed Kultist. That's not the same kind of threat as the others, but it's still a threat, because it means he can more easily get to places we don't want him to be, or more easily circle around an army faster than we can reposition our forces to counter. And he has twenty-seven million boyz, which is more than enough to make problems if they show up in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Also remember that unless he's stupider than I expect, he knows he's in a bad situation. He has to do something to change the game in order to survive. His realistic options are to swear fealty to one of the other bosses as a nob and hope for the best, or to find a weak direction to advance in, in order to secure territory and/or do something badass and impressive that causes other orks to flock to his banner.

Since he knows perfectly well that his horde is too small to challenge the Big Two, or even Skarstuf, trying to attack us might just be the thing he needs. He might figure on being able to crash into our flank while we're fighting Skarstuf, chew us up some, and gobble up territory from Skarstuf while Skarstuf is distracted fighting "scaly boyz."

Furthermore, because Skarstuf is highly mobile, he is most likely to be able to go around parts of Worldhamma's territory that are in his way, or to simply drive through them faster than Worldhamma's battered forces (remember that Mag 2) can react. The fact that the corner of land he'd want to cross to get at us is held by another boss won't necessarily stop him.

Anyway, I'm not that worried about him, but I do care enough about him to put the relatively numerous Legion of Itza on the southern flank of my attack so that they will be the one he hits first if he does something reckless. And maybe worried enough to sic a Thunder Lizard or two on him.

I mean this is an assumption on its own. Factoring it into our plans even as a hail Mary is the error in my opinion. My point was that we should go into the war fully expecting that our opening salvo will not perform an unlooked for decapitation strike and think and act accordingly.
I already did plan as you describe. It is possible, in passing, that a nation-devastating Mag 2 ritual focused on a specific single nation-sized target will kill that nation's leader. But literally all my descriptions of the probable results of the ritual have focused on "it's done to disrupt Gardakka."

And fundamentally the power of the ritual is not in the bodies it can kill but in the chaos and disorder it can sow in our enemy. Which ties into my intention with the forces sent into Gardakka's territory - which is not primarily about gaining territory at this stage.
Except that diverting armies to go into Gardakka's territory causes chaos in that territory by exposing those armies to risk, and by splitting our forces.

I would argue that by the time our forces push through Skarstuf's territory, which is hundreds of kilometers wide, they will have long since lost the element of surprise. Gardakka will be ready to respond, at least on a large enough scale that our forces will get bogged down fighting him, especially if they have to spread out to secure a long supply line reaching back through Skarstuf's territory while Skarstuf's forces are still in the fight.

It's like the spearhead/breakthrough tactics I've been arguing against; the risk of getting encircled deep inside enemy territory is too great. Our forces are too heavily outnumbered by the size of the hordes the enemy can potentially mobilize and throw at us. So we need to make sure that retreat is at least a realistic option at all times, so that we can pull back to buy time and space for our superheavies and slannpower to break up the enemy force... and that means not trying to drive a spearhead hundreds of kilometers into enemy territory without first securing our flanks at least to the point where organized resistance is impractical.

I don't want a situation where Gardakka's thinking about how many tens of millions of boyz he can pull together to fight us, while our flanks are still dealing with attacks from Skarstuf's jets and battlewagons.
 
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Ok I don't know if I'm stupid and just missed the post but how exactly does combat work in this quest? Is it diced based, bigger army based, or something else completely?(I highly doubt it's bigger army based)
 
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